new to ebikes with some Q's

Recently became interested in e-bikes and did some online searching and came to this forum. Seems like a good place to hang out.

Have been lurking for some time but now have lots of Q's, but I'll limit it to one at a time.

First of all, I have been thinking of the Wilderness BL36 front hub with a 36V 10ah battery. I am wondering how good this will be for a hill climb. I have about 2kms of straight uphill to do on my commute to work, but only a half a km is at 7% slope, and the rest is less than that. I plan on pedalling as well, but not as much. My commute is about 6.5 kms and I can normally do that in just over 16 mins. on a regular bike. This is about 24kph on average, but I usually am all sweaty and hot when I arrive at work, or when I come back home.

I note that the max speed of the BL36 is 32kph, but how would this fair on a 7% hill climb. Obviously not 32kph, but will it normally be faster than pedalling? I tried a BL36 on a 20" rim at GWEV here in Vancouver, and it was super slow. I could run faster than the bike. The bike nearly died to a walking pace going up a slight hill. Am I going to be expecting something this slow if I am used to going 24+ kph on human power alone? BTW, I weigh 165lbs and the bike (mountain bike) is about 30lbs or so, not including the kit.

I am not averse to speed on a bike. I have gone over 50kph on human power alone on my road bike, plus I also ride a motorcyle, but those commuting days may be numbered as I will have to pay for motorcycle parking soon, hence going back to cycling.

Distance on the batt. is not what I really need as the round trip is 13km. With this distance and pedal assistance, I figure I can charge every second day to save on the battery life. I would like to do a commute faster than the 16mins I can do right now. In fact, earlier this year, I passed a ebiker on my road bike on a relatively flat portion of my commute. I figure he wasn't going at full throttle. :?

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I checked out the BL36 kits from batteryspace.com and they do not suggest using 48v batteries, as they say the controller may not be able to handle it. I've read many posters on this forum saying that they've done it without problems.

Also, has anyone noticed that batteryspace.com changed their website to include complete kits with batteries now? Before, they used to sell kits without batteries, and you could purchase any combination of 36v/48v batteries.

I'm sure that with any combination of batteries I use with any kit, it'll be faster than pure human power up a hill. I haven't measured my top human powered speed on a flat or downhill, but I'm pretty sure I can reach 32kph by myself, so I don't know how much of a benefit it will be for me for the flats or downhill (save for the exception of arriving at my destination all hot and sweaty).

I might take the plunge and get the BL36 complete kit with 36v 10ah Li-ion batteries from batteryspace.com http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4556 but I need a bike store to let me try one out first. My last experience with a BL36 on a 20in rim was pretty unimpressive.

I also read that Crystalyte kits are way faster with just the 36v batt configuration (but more expensive)

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We have a loooong post about running 48V on the BL36 controller over on the V. It can be done without modification.

The 20" rim would have been fairly unimpressive speedwise, but it will have a significant torque advantage over a 26". Since the motor also won't be bogged down so much, this also translates to an efficiency advantage on hills. However, it would take significant voltage to get a BL36 in a 20" up to a decent speed. I don't believe anyone has tried more than 48V on the motor itself, but if it compares with a BD36, then it should be no problem (I run a BD36 at 72V and only have issues with commutator plate erosion; specific only to brushed motors).

Link said:

We have a loooong post about running 48V on the BL36 controller over on the V. It can be done without modification.

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I assume the V is the "V is for Voltage" forum???? Didn't know about that site till you just mentioned it. Will lurk there for awhile.

If a 48v battery pack will do, then I'll have to look for a kit without the battery pack itself.

Thanks.

Bl36 at 48v yup. Bd36 at 48v yup. Bd will climb hills well, better than a brushless hub, be faster too, like 28-30 mph at 48 volts. Charge every chance you get, it's not about how many charges, but how shallow the discharges. Range is better on brushless, but about 4 mph slower helps range a lot.

Yeah, I've been debating the brushed/brushless motors and the local dealers here seem to only sell the brushless, and most online sellers are all now moving to brushless from what I've been told as they are maintenance free compared to the brushed.

A side Q:

Been searching for LiFePo4 batts on ebay and came across at least 3 sellers of these batts. Ping batts are the most expensive, and the other two come in cheaper. But everyone recommends Ping batts. Are the others really that bad?

Will have to really to field test one out on a 26'' rim and 36v to see if I really need to upgrade to 48v. Gotta keep on looking for a local dealer here who has one available for testing.

It's not that the other cells are bad, it's that Ping is the most trusted supplier. The other sellers don't have any reputation yet.

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True, but I'm slowly destroying my commutator plate. Once that goes, I'll need a whole new motor. Brushless are just more durable than equivalent brushed. :?

Yup. But brushed will climb hills better and go faster on the same voltage, at the price of shorter range. I forgot to mention, my bd36 on a ping 20ah,36v battery will climb a mile of 10% hill at 15mph with me peadling in 19th gear of 21. Not bad to stay on the big front crank on a 10% hill. My brushes are melting some though, since it is allways about 100 f when I go up the hill home. They have been chirping like a cricket lately untill they warm up. I think I have warped the brush holder.

Next time I buy a motor and battery, I'm thinking of brushless, with a 48v, 24 ah. That should be good for about 30 or more miles. I get home after 15 miles and go aw, over allready?

Well, I only need to go about 5 miles to work and 5 miles back, so I don't need distance, but speed is more what I would like to see, especially up the 7% hill climb. The battery discharge will be very very low. Also, I don't plan on charging at work, but only after I get back home.

If I go for a higher amp hour battery, I could theoretically charge every second or third day. I read one poster said that he charged once every ten days I don't mind charging every night, as these have extended charge cycles from what I've read.

I saw these LiFePo4 batteries on ebay (not Ping's) and they look a lot like the ones in the Schwinn bikes at Canadian Tire. http://cgi.ebay.ca/36V-10AH-LiFePo4-Electric-Bicycle-Battery-Lithium-Ion_W0QQitemZ220258259858QQihZ012QQcategoryZ158998QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I will most likely end up with a Lifepo4 batt, and most likely end up with Ping's anyways and most likely a 48v10ah system

I sent some email questions to the seller of those batteries and the person did not seem to know much about the technical capabilities. My question was asking why the max continous and peak discharge ratings were so low compared to other 36v20ah lifepo4 batteries. Theirs are only rated at 15A continuous and 20 A max peak discharge rate. I did not get a straight answer. Also, if you look at the seller's feedback, they have not yet sold any of these batteries and only have feedback from selling cheap jewelry during the past year.

On another note, I just bid and won on ebay a 36v15ah lifepo4 battery from a seller named jimmywu from china. I got it for $419 including shipping. I will post again after it arrives and I have some time to test its performance.

jimw1960 said:

I sent some email questions to the seller of those batteries and the person did not seem to know much about the technical capabilities. My question was asking why the max continous and peak discharge ratings were so low compared to other 36v20ah lifepo4 batteries. Theirs are only rated at 15A continuous and 20 A max peak discharge rate. I did not get a straight answer. Also, if you look at the seller's feedback, they have not yet sold any of these batteries and only have feedback from selling cheap jewelry during the past year.

On another note, I just bid and won on ebay a 36v15ah lifepo4 battery from a seller named jimmywu from china. I got it for $419 including shipping. I will post again after it arrives and I have some time to test its performance.

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Are you sure you're not jimmywu yourself? your userid is very similar 8) plus, you just registered today.

dogman said:

I forgot to mention, my bd36 on a ping 20ah,36v battery will climb a mile of 10% hill at 15mph with me peadling in 19th gear of 21.

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Yikes... you're in better shape than me then. I climb a 9-10% for 2+ miles and the best I've done sustained with my 4011 is between 12-17mph (depending on self abuse) with 84 volts/20 amps full throttle and me pedaling like a mad man and nearly dying from exertion at the end. I've done that route 3 times and won't likely do it again until I get a 5305 or just want to punish myself with burst exercise. Does brushed @ 700 watts really out perform 1,600 watts of brushless? If that's the case I really made a bad decision. :?

fortunately it's only one mile, and the average is 10%, so I get two flat spots to regain speed. I'm pretty strong in the legs too. Before I got a gut I used to buy pants big in the waist just so my frog legs would fit in em. But yes, the brushed WE performance is startling good, but I am melting brushes since I do the climb in 100f weather in the summer. I'm going to put the bike on the bus for that hill from now on. I just got strong enough in the arms to put the bike on the rack again.

ty cohen said:

jimw1960 said:

I sent some email questions to the seller of those batteries and the person did not seem to know much about the technical capabilities. My question was asking why the max continous and peak discharge ratings were so low compared to other 36v20ah lifepo4 batteries. Theirs are only rated at 15A continuous and 20 A max peak discharge rate. I did not get a straight answer. Also, if you look at the seller's feedback, they have not yet sold any of these batteries and only have feedback from selling cheap jewelry during the past year.

On another note, I just bid and won on ebay a 36v15ah lifepo4 battery from a seller named jimmywu from china. I got it for $419 including shipping. I will post again after it arrives and I have some time to test its performance.

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Are you sure you're not jimmywu yourself? your userid is very similar 8) plus, you just registered today.

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Ha ha.. nice observation.

dogman said:

fortunately it's only one mile, and the average is 10%, so I get two flat spots to regain speed. I'm pretty strong in the legs too.

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Right on... wasn't trying to be scrappy or anything, just impressed. For giggles I did my alternate route again this morning just to make sure my numbers were on and averaged 16.1mph over 7.3mi using 40.9wh/mi and pedaling as hard as I could in my highest MTB gear. Shaved 1min 17sec off my best time so far, but was totally burned out again at the top (as was the 4011.. heh, heh.. poor thing). I'm starting to recover more quickly so I must be getting better shape though! Whoot! I'll post a video sometime (sorry to hijack your thread ty cohen!)... it's a pretty commute up the mountain.

Are you sure you're not jimmywu yourself? your userid is very similar plus, you just registered today.

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Yes, I'm sure I'm not jimmywu. You can go to ebay yourself and see the battery auction won by my ID name. Besides, jimmywu is in china and I am in texas and you can tell I'm not him by the fact that my written English is full of mistakes. ANyway, I just heard back from the seller and he says it will take a week to build the battery before they can ship. I will start a new post under batteries when after I receive and test the battery.

jimw1960 said:

Are you sure you're not jimmywu yourself? your userid is very similar plus, you just registered today.

Click to expand...

Yes, I'm sure I'm not jimmywu. You can go to ebay yourself and see the battery auction won by my ID name. Besides, jimmywu is in china and I am in texas and you can tell I'm not him by the fact that my written English is full of mistakes. ANyway, I just heard back from the seller and he says it will take a week to build the battery before they can ship. I will start a new post under batteries when after I receive and test the battery.

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yah know I am just kidding 8)

Looks like you got a good deal. let us know how it turns out.

Do keep us posted on the deal, and the battery performance. I have been real happy with my Ping, and will be buying another by christmas, but right now with the olympics, people want to know who can suppy now.

I just checked jimmywu66's ebay store and his sales, and he has sold a few Lifepo4 batts already, but not as much as Ping. I've seen a 48v 15ah batt go for $580 including shipping. Ping sold a couple for 683 and 785 including shipping. But that was mainly due to a bidding war, not the Buy it Now price.

the closest jimmywu has is a 48v10ah batt for 550 including shipping for a Buy it Now price.

I too would like to see how jimmywu's batteries hold up.

going back to my original post:

I will most likely end up getting a 600 w BL36 with a 48v10ah or a 15ah Lifepo4 batt.

My commute with a side trip to the daycare for my daughter, will take 8kms one way, with a 7% slope for 3/4 a km. The total hill climb would be 3% for about 2km. The rest is a gentle coast downhill. I would like to get at least 30 to 35 km going uphill and 45km+ on the flats. Strangely enough, the start and the finish destinations are at the exact same elevation.

I figure even though my discharge will be rather shallow, I should still charge every night. From what I've read, this helps maintain the battery life, rather than charging every second or even third day, which theoretically I could do given my distances.

What do you think of my setup? Is there a better hub motor I should be looking at?


side note: I pass by Justin's Rennaisance bike store everyday on the way to work and back. Didn't even know it existed till I came across it researching ebikes.