1200 km, 14 km of climbing in 90 hours - AM I MAD?

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Captain slow   10 µW

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Re: 1200 km, 14 km of climbing in 90 hours - AM I MAD?

Post by Captain slow » May 10 2014 5:09am

Wow, this sounds like quite a challenge.

I'm really interested to read about the results/experience after you're done. Hoping you'll post a story about it.

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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: 1200 km, 14 km of climbing in 90 hours - AM I MAD?

Post by Sunder » May 11 2014 8:07pm

Yeah, I'm waiting for the photo blog with all the gory details as well!
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
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After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

fellow   1 kW

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Re: 1200 km, 14 km of climbing in 90 hours - AM I MAD?

Post by fellow » May 11 2014 8:31pm

1.2kg of batteries (Panasonic NCR18650pf, 2900mah/cell) is giving me exactly 18km of no-pedal range on flat terrain IRL. That's less than 18wh/km. This is on Q100H and 4,2V/cell. Every additional 1 kg of batteries gives 15 Km of extra distance. Or: every 100km distance = 6.7kg of batteries.

1200km of distance gives:
81Kg of batteries with 0 recharging.
40kg of batteries with 1 recharge stop at 600km.
27kg of batteries with 2 recharge stops. One stop every 400km.
20kg of batteries with 3 recharge stops. One stop every 300km.
16kg of batteries with 4 recharge stops. One stop every 240km.
13kg of batteries with 5 recharge stops. One stop every 200km.
11kg of batteries with 6 recharge stops. One stop every 171km...
My 18S Q100H Frankenstein S06S project is here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=68305

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JennyB   1 kW

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Re: 1200 km, 14 km of climbing in 90 hours - AM I MAD?

Post by JennyB » May 12 2014 2:14pm

fellow wrote:1.2kg of batteries (Panasonic NCR18650pf, 2900mah/cell) is giving me exactly 18km of no-pedal range on flat terrain IRL. That's less than 18wh/km. This is on Q100H and 4,2V/cell. Every additional 1 kg of batteries gives 15 Km of extra distance. Or: every 100km distance = 6.7kg of batteries.
That seems about right, but I don't think I'd want to sit that long on a bicycle saddle without pedalling. :P

Then you have to account for hills. I've found I can get a close approximation of my unassisted riding time by using a base speed of 23km/h and adding a minute for every 20 metres climbed on a looped course. On a typical hilly ride I'll average about 20kph. It actually costs me two minutes to climb 20 metres, but I reckon to get one of them back on the descents. So (depending on your weight, reckon that every 30 metres of ascent means you need another km worth of battery. Even with an absolutely 100% efficient bike, one watt hour won't lift 100kg more than about 3 metres.

So, my 5wh/km gets me about a 25% increase in speed for the same effort on my part, which means I can spend an hour recharging for every four on the road, so to stay ahead of myself indefinitely I have to charge at 500 watts. I was planning to charge with two of Cellman's 6 amp chargers in parallel, which add up to about 430 watts. At distances of over 300k daily it's very difficult to build an ebike that will get you round faster than unassisted. Easier, yes, because you have that much more time to rest while you are waiting for it to charge. :wink:

More normal distances of 100k or so are quite possible though. In fact, on my 200k Audax I spotted a guy touring on an ebike with full panniers, and I expect to see a lot more of them in the future.

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JennyB   1 kW

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Re: 1200 km, 14 km of climbing in 90 hours - AM I MAD?

Post by JennyB » May 28 2014 2:48pm

Only just over three weeks to go now, and it looks like I won't be riding the Mile Failte assisted unless I can find a suitable motor PDQ. :( Thing is, I want to ride the new bike because that's what I'm putting in the distance on, and I'd rather have a front hub:

1. So I don't do an accidental backflip with the throttle.
2. So I don't have to mess with the gearing. It's a 9-speed cassette, so it can work with a six or seven speed freewheel without changing the chain - but I'd rather not go there again.

I was about to order a Mac 350 from Cellman (not too heavy, should be reliable at a 20 amp limit) but when I checked the drawing that he so thoughtfully provides, I saw it would foul my fork, which tapers to a narrow crown, and has only 80mm between the blades level with the top of the disc. I think an EbikeKit geared front hub should just fit, but would that be a bit marginal for long days on long hills with a load of over 100kg?

Well, I have the 400k ride on Saturday, and if I can get round that in about 24 hours I should be able to ride the MF1200 unassisted without too much sleep deprivation.

Yes, Sunder, there will (I hope) be pictures. :mrgreen:

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JennyB   1 kW

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1200 km, 14 km of climbing in 90 hours? I WAS MAD!

Post by JennyB » Jun 28 2014 4:47pm

Well, the Roche-Elliott-Kelly 400k ride at the end of May did not go well. I'd reckoned I might be able to complete it in a bit over 24 hours, and, if so, it might be possible to contemplate the 1200k ride without assistance. I knew I was slow on the hills, but I managed the climb up Glenmalure to the Shay Elliott memorial without too much difficulty, and even caught up with a few of the other riders by the first control.

Then things started to go wrong. I punctured - fixed it easily enough, but as a result decided to head straight through New Ross when I really should have stopped. My digestion started to play up, I couldn't eat the food I had brought with me, and I started walking hills that I would normally have climbed easily. Then I took a wrong turn, and I realised I would not make the control at Carrick-on-Suir in time. I was 150k from the start and there wasn't any point in going on, so I took a couple of hours to recover in a pub with tea and soup, then headed back on the main roads. The shadows were lengthening as I set off, and it was ten in the morning when got back, my first all-night ride.

Now I knew there was no way I would make the big ride without assistance, and I still had no working motor. I finally got a UK source for a BBS01, and it arrived with just a week to go. I hadn't time to test it with any really long rides, but I was (sort of) all set.

I put the bike in the back of the car and drove down to Midleton on Friday the 20th, arriving about 2 pm. It was a long drive - nearly 200 miles - but not as long as the ride I would have the next day.
AIR_20140628_00000.jpg
Bikes in the hotel before the start
AIR_20140628_00000.jpg (105.78 KiB) Viewed 509 times
The start was at eight on Saturday morning, so that the faster riders would not have to wait too long for the ferry across Cork harbour at the start of the next day. I didn't take a lot of photos, but there are plenty on the event's Facebook page, together with a video that captures the atmosphere well. There were, I think, 95 riders in all - mainly Irish and British, with around ten Americans, about the same number of other nationalities, and seven other women.


DAY ONE ROUTE

Image

In the early stages I had a few minor problems with luggage, which put me at the back of the field, but I was soon passing other riders (usually on the hills!). A lovely sunny day, beautiful scenery, the bike going even better than I had hoped. When I rolled into Waterford after about six hours and 120k, I was feeling pretty pleased. I'd used less than 10 amp hours, which went back in while I enjoyed a toasted sandwich and a pot of tea. On then, through Carrick-on-Suir, the home town of the legendary racing cyclist Sean Kelly, and up into the hills. I was on my own now. Back roads with grass growing up the middle, winding through tunnels of trees, sometimes meeting a tractor with a hay-rake on the back that took up so much of the road you had to pull in as far as you could and hold there with a foot in the hedge until he got past. Perhaps I wasn't going so fast now; I was enjoying myself too much. When I stopped at a shop in Fethard I was told that a large group had passed through twenty minutes before. Time to get a move on.

More haste, less speed. My navigation app had ceased to function. I was held up for quite some time at Clonmel, looking for the right exit of a roundabout. I'd gone half a k up the road and returned before I realised I was looking at the wrong roundabout - the one I needed was further on. Things were beginning to get a little surreal. As I stopped at the proper exit I heard the sound of hooves and a ten-year-old boy came past, riding a Shetland pony, his feet almost scraping the road. The pony was wearing a trotting harness. Now I was looking for a road off to the left. There was one, but it was far too close. I continued on for another k. Nothing. I stopped at a house to ask directions. There was a patio door open onto a back garden, and a young child wandering round in his pyjamas. I asked if there was anyone else in the house, but he didn't seem to understand, so I rang the front door bell and eventually his father (I presume) directed me to Ardfinnan. A way to Ardfinnan anyway, but by now I wasn't worried about following the precise route so long as I reached all the controls in time.

Now I was picking up other riders again, and there was a good crowd in Cahir when I stopped for my second sit-down-and-recharge break. It would take an hour this time, so I could relax and enjoy my meal while others were trying to get in and out as quickly as possible. It was just beginning to get dark, but the pub where we stopped was buzzing, with the World Cup on on the telly. The evening was still warm, so we sat at tables out on the street. Ask about sockets, order a starter, set up the chargers, start the timer. Check the bike, fit lights, put on spare jersey, have soup. I didn't need much more, while the others were digging into big feeds of chips or pasta. A passer-by tried to get a rise out of me, thinking I was a France supporter. I had no idea how well or badly France were doing; it was just a blue jersey. Wander down to the shop. Buy some chocolate brownies for emergency night-time rations. Fifteen minutes to go - why not have some apple pie for dessert?

I was the last cyclist to leave, confident of catching up. But now, after dark, my navigation really went to pot. It took three hours to get to the next control, 30 k away round the back of the Galtee mountains. It was just past midnight; the fastest man had gone through at six in the afternoon. There I met another cyclist. We were the last two through, apart from one who had gone missing. He looked pretty tired, but at least he had a decent satnav, so I decided to stick with him. We were now 100k from our hostel beds, and it was downhill all the way to cross the main Cahir-Mitchelstown road at Kilbeheny before we started climbing again. I was leading down the steepest part when I was suddenly aware that his lights were no longer behind me. I turned. No sign. I retraced my path, now totally confused. Where was that steep hill I'd just come down? Pedelec and lack of sleep can do that to you. A narrow lane led off to the right. He must have gone that way and, yes, it led to a T junction just where it should. But by now there was no sign of a tail light anywhere, and I was so demoralised that I knocked on a door, just to make sure. Is this the way to Kilbeheny? Yes, he said, but it's about eight miles and it's not a great road. EIGHT MILES??? It was just over two k, and, just then, it was the best road in the world.

A few k farther on, and climbing, I saw a tail light winking. An English rider was sitting on the road side, with a hi-tech Moulton beside him. His rear hub had given way. He was waiting for the volunteers from the control to pick him up. In the mean time, he was happy enough; he'd just seen a shooting star. A bit farther. and I came across the rider I'd met at the control. We rode together for a while, but it was hard for me to climb slowly enough to stay with him. Was it any help for me to stay with him? Go on, he said, I'm just riding in. I knew there was a right turn coming up soon, but I wasn't exactly sure how far, so I said I'd ride as far as the first turn I wasn't sure of, and wait for him there. In a while I reached a junction that looked familiar from my homework on Google Maps, but I couldn't be sure in the dark. I stopped, had a drink, ate a brownie, put on my jacket and sat and waited. Then I got out my route sheet and had a think. If it was the right turning, then I was only a few miles from Lismore and it was a narrow, bumpy track that only led out onto the main road again. If it wasn't - well, in either case I'd be better off sticking to the main road. A shallow descent now, no need to pedal, and it went on and on for - a lot longer than a couple of k. I was beginning to wonder if I was coming down the wrong side of the mountain when I remembered that there was a river in front and I was a long way below the crest. The only place this road could lead was Lismore, wasn't it? On and on, down and down, until I came to a T junction, and the left arrow read Waterford and the right arrow read - TALLOW??? Ah, underneath, Lismore, 1 k. I was running very late now, just time to visit an ATM as proof that I'd been in Lismore, then on, full throttle for the last control at Youghal.

And - I got lost again. Of course, I did, so lost in wooded valleys that I had no idea which way I was heading. Downhill, I thought, downhill on the thickest road you can find. Eventually I reached water and followed it downstream as a new day dawned. The lights of Youghal appeared in the distance just as my time ran out. Ah well, main road back to Midleton, then. Plenty still in the battery. On the way I caught up with another rider and paced him back to the hostel. We arrived with some time to spare, at about seven o'clock, as some other riders are heading out to the ferry. Put the battery on charge again, breakfast and then bed. At nine o'clock I am ready to go again.

The day was heating up again as I made my way down to Cobh. I was tired, but I thought if I take it easy to start with, I can ride through it. I make my way past Fota park, and the Garda directing traffic from the Irish Open Golf tournament. The ferry came, and at last I could sit down. But as soon as I did, the vibrations from the big diesel told me that there is no way I was going to ride through another night. And what was that noise I'd heard from the bottom bracket? I didn't want to be stuck out the end of some peninsula with a seized motor. On the other side, I found a patch of green and lay down. Later I crossed back on the ferry and returned to the hostel. Maybe I will rest there for a while, I thought then drive on to Killarney. The bike, of course, behaved perfectly on the way back.

I slept most of that day. At breakfast I met two more cyclists who had abandoned (I think only 70 completed the whole course) and we swapped war stories all morning of monster hills and lack of sleep. One claimed to have seen Elvis standing in a gateway. It was only when he was two feet away that he realised it was a bush. Later I drove, slowly and carefully, to the hostel in Killarney to help with the riders coming back from the second day and feel glad that I wasn't one of them. Or maybe I could have done it. With all my diversions I had ridden 10 k further than the official distance on the first day, more than I'd ridden on the REK 400, and in three-quarters of the time. If only I could have managed the sleep deprivation, because I wasn't physically exhausted, just jet-lagged. Many of the finishers had less than eight hours sleep over the four days.

Next morning I woke early and rode up to the Gap of Dunloe, before even the jaunting cars were out. A still, clear morning, with only a thrush singing. Later I drove down to Skibbereen to explore my mother's home country, then on to spend the night with my cousin on his farm near Macroom. Beautiful country - all of it.

My only regret is that I wasn't on the bike.
AIR_20140628_00001.jpg
Ghostdancer at the Gap of Dunloe
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JennyB   1 kW

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Re: 1200 km, 14 km of climbing in 90 hours - AM I MAD?

Post by JennyB » Aug 01 2014 1:29pm

Memories, memories!

Some scenes from a coming DVD of the ride, mainly from the first day. 8)

http://vimeo.com/99334781

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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: 1200 km, 14 km of climbing in 90 hours - AM I MAD?

Post by Sunder » Aug 01 2014 4:57pm

The scenery looks incredible there. My hope is to come to the UK to work in a couple years time, and spend up to 6 months touring by a combination of bike and car.

Even the leg you did sounds like an incredible feat of endurance. While I'm preparing for a 160km ride, you're doing much greater distances. Good on you for taking it on. Despite not finishing it as you would like, you've done better than probably 99% of us could. You're an inspiration.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
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After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: 1200 km, 14 km of climbing in 90 hours - AM I MAD?

Post by Sunder » Aug 01 2014 5:13pm

Just noticed the route. If I was the organiser, I would have diverted it to end one day at Tipperary, and started the day at the previous stop with "It's a long way to Tipperary" on loop over breakfast.

But I'm just cruel like that.

The sign that says "You've come a long way" at the entry to the town would never ring more true though!
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: Still on grid, but with LTO batteries and 3kw LF inverter...

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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