My Electra Cruiser project

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: The final solution for Mac kit

Post by neptronix » Dec 15 2013 5:56pm

Go with a rear. Trust me, you don't want front wheel burnouts. :)
That bike puts more of your weight on the back than most bikes and your front end will be way too light.

If you have 135mm dropouts, rear is the only way to go.

The upgraded MAC motor is a very strong motor. It has room to grow. I've done a stable 35-39mph with mine and i am a 250lb rider. That's with the older version that is less efficient :)
Efficiency is everything :bolt:

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

kudos   10 kW

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Re: The final solution for Mac kit

Post by kudos » Dec 15 2013 6:24pm

neptronix wrote:Go with a rear. Trust me, you don't want front wheel burnouts. :)
That bike puts more of your weight on the back than most bikes and your front end will be way too light.

If you have 135mm dropouts, rear is the only way to go.

The upgraded MAC motor is a very strong motor. It has room to grow. I've done a stable 35-39mph with mine and i am a 250lb rider. That's with the older version that is less efficient :)
Nep,

What V/A are you running to get 35-39mph on an 8T?

Kudos
Build 1A Gary Fisher Wahoo Hardtail : Crystalyte HS3540 40A 49V
Build 1B Gary Fisher Wahoo Hardtail : Mac 10T 30A 49V
Build 1C Gary Fisher Wahoo Hardtail : Crystalyte HS3540 40A 82V
Build 2 Mountain Cycle Fury FS : Mac 8T 40A 57V : Scrapped
Build 3 GT LTS FS : Mac 10T 30A 49V
Build 4 EEB Frame: Mac 8T 40A 49V 32Ah

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what is the 3 speed switch

Post by psychonurse » Dec 15 2013 6:48pm

Hi, will be ordering a Mac kit in next couple of days. What is the 3 speeds switch and what does it do. My guess is that you are able to push it and it gets you to 3 different speeds. Maybe 10mph, 15mpg and 22 mph without messing with the throttle and then you push the brake cutoff to cancel. I know I'm totally wrong but I'm trying. O.K. make me feel stupid.

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footloose   10 kW

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Re: what is the 3 speed switch

Post by footloose » Dec 15 2013 7:38pm

Not exactly, but close.
Basically, lets you easily select 3 different performance profiles (how much acceleration and top speed).
Roughly:
1 = lend it to friends, or riding in crowds and super market parking lots
2 = a bit more juice
3 = let 'er rip

Nice choices in real world

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madin88   100 MW

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Re: what is the 3 speed switch

Post by madin88 » Dec 15 2013 7:40pm

You can program 3 different controller speed limits and switch through them. for example 33%, 66% and 100%. If you push the throttle, the controller will not spin faster than this setting.
There also is the option to set to max 120%. This will cause in much more speed downhill and only a bit more speed on flat ground. It draws also more current.
- 10kW belt drive with Neumotor 8057: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=91144&start=50#p1377787
- Fully road legal (L1E approval) e-bike based on Votec V-FR frame
/ MXUS 3T / 17" Mitas MC11 / Adaptto Max-E / 20s12p 25R
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Re: what is the 3 speed switch

Post by 999zip999 » Dec 15 2013 8:16pm

More then half the time I lend my bike they crash it or something. Did you get the whole setup from Paul ? em3ev. Battery also ?

psychonurse   10 W

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Re: what is the 3 speed switch

Post by psychonurse » Dec 15 2013 8:38pm

Thanks , I am ordering the 10t motor, flywheel for my 7speed, controller 9fet 30 amp 36v -52v, thumb throttle, I already have a 36v lithium battery and a electra 7d beach cruiser to convert. Some say I may shorten the life of the battery with that high amp controller. I'm hoping Paul can adjust is to be friendly to my battery. I plan to upgrade to a 48v battery later.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: what is the 3 speed switch

Post by dogman dan » Dec 16 2013 6:17am

I have found the 3 speed switches or the 2 speed jumper wires on controllers to be pretty handy, even if you don't run anything but the fast speed 99% of the time.

The slow speeds are handy in close places, crowded bike trails and such. My bad right hand will tend to creep the speed up.

Also, when you need to hypermile, only the speed limiter will truly keep my speed below 20 mph for hours and hours. So I use my 18 mph top speed jumper when I need to make my cargo bike go on longer tours. 18 mph vs 30 mph more than doubles my range.

But personally, I'd rather locate the switch closer to the controller. Handlebars get cluttered enough as it is. I don't want a big chunky throttle with switches.

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Ykick   100 GW

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Re: what is the 3 speed switch

Post by Ykick » Dec 16 2013 7:11am

Good topic to throw a plug for the CAV3 out there. In case you're not aware it offers the ability to store 3 independent settings and I've found it useful to setup full power, medium "path" power and super economical hyper-mile power settings.

You need to push both buttons on the CAV3 to switch between these modes but I read about the option to add external switches if you wanted this control on the handlebars.

Quite a bit more money than most 3spd switches but it's a helluva device that opens up many more possibilities for managing eBike parameters.
Talent must not be wasted.... Those who have talent must hug it, embrace it, nurture it and share it lest it be taken away from you as fast as it was loaned to you.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: what is the 3 speed switch

Post by dogman dan » Dec 16 2013 7:32am

CAv3 and a compatible direct plug in controller is definitely the way to go for a first class set up.

When people who just couldn't know better ask if the little dashboard that comes with many kits now is just as good, I laugh so hard I have to clean the snot off my computer screen.

Like comparing a you just blew your engine light on a cheap car, with the full gauges on a well set up race vehicle.

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How to re-program controller

Post by psychonurse » Dec 16 2013 11:59am

Hi, just finalizing my ordering of Mac kit to Paul at Em3 ev. He stated that the 9 fet 30amp controller should be o.k but I should also order the cable to be able to re-program if I need to. I am not the most computer saavy person. I guess since I will be using a 36v battery until I purchase a 48v.The 30amp controller might shorten life of 36v battery. So could someone give me the steps to "re-program". And what am I looking for and to do when I reprogram. I also asked Paul if I might be better off just ordering a controller that will work with both a 36v and 48v without worrying about making adjustments. If they have such a item. I'm just waiting for his reply on this question. Any input into this subject appreciated. Thanks Mike

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Re: what is the 3 speed switch

Post by amigafan2003 » Dec 17 2013 4:47am

Ykick wrote:Good topic to throw a plug for the CAV3 out there. In case you're not aware it offers the ability to store 3 independent settings and I've found it useful to setup full power, medium "path" power and super economical hyper-mile power settings.

You need to push both buttons on the CAV3 to switch between these modes but I read about the option to add external switches if you wanted this control on the handlebars.

Quite a bit more money than most 3spd switches but it's a helluva device that opens up many more possibilities for managing eBike parameters.
Do both - have the CAV3 AND a 3 speed switch wired direct to it - that's what I've done.

One profile is street legal - 17mph top speed and low watts (600watts'ish). The three speed switch on this profile changes speed between 8mph, 12mph and 17mph. 12mph is handy when I'm towing my daughter in her trailer.
Next profile is titled "go nuts". Max power (1800watts) and max speed. Three speed switch changes between 16mph, 25mph and unlimited (i.e. power limited).
Third profile is Economy. This profile has the three speed switch set to change power - 1st position is 350watts, 2nd 600 watts and third 1000watts. Top speed set in the CAV3 is 20mph.

A CAV3 and a 3 speed switch is a very versatile combination.

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Re: what is the 3 speed switch

Post by d8veh » Dec 17 2013 5:33am

On many controllers with the three-speed switch, position three is set or can be programmed for overdrive, which allows the motor to run at a higher speed than you can with normal controller. The amount of extra speed depends on the motor and controller combination, but 10% extra on the road is common. In my experience, it doesn't work when running sensorless. There's a short explanation of how it does it here:
http://www.lsdzs.com/e/newsshow.asp?newsid=138

chvidgov.bc.ca   10 kW

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Re: electra 7d cruiser

Post by chvidgov.bc.ca » Dec 19 2013 12:31am

Hi Psych...this isn't my bike, but it has basically the identical setup except a 406 instead of a 9C/Amped type..

http://www.ampedbikes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=789

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Decisions Decisions....MAC or BAFANG

Post by psychonurse » Dec 20 2013 12:17pm

Hi Guys, If you have read some previous posts I was all set to order the MAC kit from em3ev.com Well, yesterday I found a company only a mile or so from my house that makes really cool e-bikes. The website is BMebikes.com He let me demo a few of his bikes. I told Tim the owner about my plan to order the MAC kit. He said he would sell me one of his Bafang kits that are a custom kits bafang makes for his bikes. Has some very nice features like a cycle anylast type gadget that gives gas gauge reading on A.H. left. Seemed to have good torque ect. He wants $850 for complete kit36v/500watt motor,controller,thumb throttle ect. The $850 includes a 36v 8a.h. lithium bottle battery. I supply the bike. Em3ev.com wants $566.16 for the complete kit. No battery included of course. I inclued shipping fee. I don't know anything about Bafang motors. Would appreciate some input from you guys on what is the best choice of the two.

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Re: Decisions Decisions....MAC or BAFANG

Post by mark5 » Dec 20 2013 12:44pm

On the Bafang, do you really need another battery? It's not going to be better than the battery you have now. Also what is Los Angeles sales tax on $850, $76? How about the guy just sells you a Bafang motor kit. A Bafang motor kit ought to cost less than a Mac kit.

A past thread on Mac vs. Bafang: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=45337.
E-S user d8veh comments on the Bafang CST motor: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 53#p788651, http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 53#p789280.

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Re: Decisions Decisions....MAC or BAFANG

Post by d8veh » Dec 20 2013 6:09pm

All motors are good. You just have to find the one that suits your. IMHO,the MAC is rather basic and old-fashioned, though strong and reliable. There's much better motors now, but it's not possible to recommend one without knowing what you're trying to achieve. Bafang make about 20 different hub-motors. Do you know exactly which one you tried?

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Re: Decisions Decisions....MAC or BAFANG

Post by spinningmagnets » Dec 20 2013 6:22pm

For a front hub, I'd go with the Bafang-BPM, there's no need to spend the extra dollars using a MAC/BMC/eZee on the front.

For the rear...after just a short time, just about everyone new to E-bikes wants a little more power. The MAC (and presumably the same-sized BMC/eZee) are capable of about 25% more power than the BPM. For a rear geared hub, I feel it's worth the extra copper mass (plus other benefits).

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Re: what is the 3 speed switch

Post by joshseitz » Dec 20 2013 7:01pm

So in the "overdrive" mode, is the controller passing more current? To achieve higher speeds, you typically need higher voltage, and I don't see how the controller could influence that.

Any more info on this 120% boost/overdrive mode?

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Re: Decisions Decisions....MAC or BAFANG

Post by psychonurse » Dec 20 2013 9:22pm

Thank all of you for your input. I really liked the attatchments of old posts you made available Mark5. They have convinced me that I will be ordering the MAC kit from Paul at em3ev.com. Excited and looking foward to getting the kit and having an Electra beach cruiser all electricfied and ready to do its thing. I hope I am making right decision with the 10t motor and 48volt battery.

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Re: Decisions Decisions....MAC or BAFANG

Post by DAND214 » Dec 20 2013 10:01pm

What did you place in the cart to get that 566?
I placed the kit in and shipping was 463+- shipped to Chicago.
With a better battery with more Ah and higher C rate was 862 shipped. I still need to add the cheap $30 charger. Maybe the Ca is what you added, So add 160 to what I listed. The display with the Bafang is not a CA! I guess it does add up. just over a grand.

it's nice to have the home advantage, so it's up to you.
If that is what you want or need for your ride it's your choice.
lot of bafang lovers as well as Mac lovers.
have both, bafangs I have are the weaker ones for the wife so I can't make that call.

Help at home is a great thing to have if neede, but if you want power you need to go elseware.

dan

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: Decisions Decisions....MAC or BAFANG

Post by neptronix » Dec 20 2013 10:28pm

The macs are stronger. Lots of room to grow.
Efficiency is everything :bolt:

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: Decisions Decisions....MAC or BAFANG

Post by mark5 » Dec 20 2013 11:04pm

psychonurse, your Electra cruiser won't be far from being like nonlineartom's very nice Mac beach cruiser, if you haven't seen his bike yet.

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Re: Decisions Decisions....MAC or BAFANG

Post by d8veh » Dec 21 2013 5:19am

spinningmagnets wrote:For a front hub, I'd go with the Bafang-BPM, there's no need to spend the extra dollars using a MAC/BMC/eZee on the front.

For the rear...after just a short time, just about everyone new to E-bikes wants a little more power. The MAC (and presumably the same-sized BMC/eZee) are capable of about 25% more power than the BPM. For a rear geared hub, I feel it's worth the extra copper mass (plus other benefits).
The BPM comes in 350w and 500w versions. Are you sure that you're comparing like with like? The 500w BPM motor runs happily at 30 amps. I've even run one with 40 amps. Can a Ezee motor do that?

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Re: what is the 3 speed switch

Post by d8veh » Dec 21 2013 5:33am

joshseitz wrote:So in the "overdrive" mode, is the controller passing more current? To achieve higher speeds, you typically need higher voltage, and I don't see how the controller could influence that.

Any more info on this 120% boost/overdrive mode?
It changes the timing of the fets to make the motor more able to spin. It doesn't give any more volts or current. At maximum speed yoy won't be anywhere near maximum current anyway. It's similar to having variable valve technology on gas engine. I don't know if you remember the old two-stroke motorbikes with a power-valve,which is also a similar sort of thing. By changing the operating parameters for a motor to run at high-speed,you can optimise for speed rather than torque or efficiency.

You don't need to worry too much about how it works. Just hit that switch and enjoy the benefits.

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