Zero X: Or Why Ebikes are not Emotorcycles...

Zero X: Or Why Ebikes are not Emotorcycles...



http://www.zeromotorcycles.com

The Zero X accelerates from 0-30 in under 2 seconds! The Zero's electric motor delivers over 20 horsepower and similar performance to a 250cc gas powered off-road motorcycle. With an electric motor you get 100% torque at all times for instantaneous throttle response and incredible off-the-line performance. Because the Zero is so amazingly light, it's power-to-weight ratio is unsurpassed by anything else on the market.



Discussion:

Given that the Zero X already blows away most everything it makes little sense to be thinking about ebikes that use this kind of power. (it makes the hub motors look rather silly)

Isn't the Zero X the perfect argument for limiting ebikes to 750 watts?

If not 750 watts then what?

How would would know what the "ebikes" were compared to the "emotorcycles"?

safe said:

Isn't the Zero X the perfect argument for limiting ebikes to 750 watts?

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no? I dont get what you are saying. Why are you so concerned about limiting e-bikes? I have a 407(500-750 watt rated?) and it can put out over 1kw, its fun.

Zero is 58V @ 35Amps Max, Thats....2030W

An ebike should be allowed to have whatever strength motor you want. the only limit should be a speed cap.

safe said:

[
How would would know what the "ebikes" were compared to the "emotorcycles"?

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Simple math: 20 horse-power minus 1 horse-power equals 19 horse-power. There's the difference.

BTW: ZeroX is planning on releasing a street-legal version of this bike.

I'm not sure I follow what you are trying to ask or state here.

safe said:

Isn't the Zero X the perfect argument for limiting ebikes to 750 watts?

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I think it is more of a non-sequitor than an argument. That would be like saying an AMA Superbike is the perfect argument for limiting mopeds to 30mph. They are in completely different classes and do not compare. A motorcycle capable of 200+mph has nothing to do with whether the moped limit should be 30mph or 45mph.

safe said:

If not 750 watts then what?

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750 is perfectly arbitrary, but if you are going to build the regulation around "power" without defining how to measure it, it is a somewhat crippled requirement anyway. One could successfully argue 500, or 1000 watts as a power limit. California settled on 1000. Europe settled on 250. Congress told the CPSC to use 750.

The choice of 750watts / 20mph as a dividing line between Mopeds and e-bicycles is perhaps arbitrary, but it does fall in line with the expectations of the (more speed/power = more regulation) trend established by most states with their bicycle/moped/motorcycle regulations. If you want to exceed the state's limit on power, you register it as a moped. Unfortunately, state motor vehicle registration departments are notoriously bureaucratic, and can make it excruciatingly difficult to register your home-built contraption, while any piece of junk unloaded from the port is assumed to meet the registration requirements. If moped registration was a consistently simple process of a one-time inspection of your creation for turn signals and brakes I don't think you would hear as much complaining about the arbitrary limit imposed on e-bikes--Folks would just register as mopeds and build something with as much power as they are comfortable riding with and can afford or justify for their ride.

Beyond that, you are left arguing what equally arbitrary speed/power limit is the right line for regulating as a bicycle. The "we need to protect you from yourself" crowd will use your grandmother's average power output on a century ride as a starting argument, the "I don't wear lycra, but want to be faster than the roadies" group will use the fastest clocked bicycle track sprint speed as a starting point. All equally arbitrary definitions.

My personal opinion? no peak power limit, but a continuous power limit or speed limit in the ~25mph range; about where a conditioned amateur road cyclist will be running. Make the moped registration process simpler and better defined, so you don't get a different opinion from every DMV clerk you talk to.

And if you want a Zero X, get in line for your motorcycle class license.

I'm for a speed only limit, but I can sorta see why mopeds have a 2hp power limit also. Otherwise one could get wacky and put a 30mph speed limiter on like a full size motorcycle and legally it'd be a moped. That could cause problems.

20mph may be more dangerous than going faster in many situations, but its still a useful ebike speed IMO. And most people have no problem breaking the law to go faster when safety is compromised by obeying the speed limit, so meh. They will break the limit, just like everybody does daily on the freeway. Anyway I vote speed limit only just like for cars.

Lessss said:

An ebike should be allowed to have whatever strength motor you want. the only limit should be a speed cap.

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I once thought I should be able to have fun accelerating up to the 45 MPH speed limit on my motorcycle only to find out I was in violation of the "excessive acceleration" law.

It seems if you're going to be allowed on bicycle/pedestrian paths, they don't want your bike behaving much differently than non-powered bikes.

The US Consumer Protection Safety Act already has guidelines for sales of ebikes (as distinguished from electric mopeds, electric motorcycles and other motor vehicles).

Ownership and operation are regulated at the state & local level.

Stuffing a huge motor in any small vehicle is typically regarded as radical modification and the "type of vehicle" becomes nominal at best.

i.e. : an Oldsmobile Toronado 442cu in. powered VW Beetle.

Just put pedals on it and it's legally a bike here in Costa Rica. That's pretty close to what I want, but tuned down just a notch, and a bit more bike-like in appearance. No use attracting unwanted attention...It might lead to the law being changed.

I'm starting from the ebike side due to cost, and I'd like to stay as close as possible to 30wh/mile compared to 150wh/mile for an e-motorcycle.

John

So who was mistaking the zero motorcycle for an ebike anyway? I wouldn't want to share the bike path with one.

Me neither, but then again I'm kind of iffy on sharing it with 500 pounds gross of triple tandem doped turbo scoot too... :|

I don't think anybody here is getting confused, just getting some discussin goin.

Where I live, you can't ride a motor bike on a bike path and you have to license and insure motor bikes. So yeah I want something that looks like a powered motor bike that can go a little faster than it should...

What would be silly is seeing a Zero X on a bike path.

Lessss said:

Zero is 58V @ 35Amps Max, Thats....2030W

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No, that's its battery pack. It's got 2.03kWh of energy available. The controller limits output to 17.4kW.

safe said:

Isn't the Zero X the perfect argument for limiting ebikes to 750 watts?

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Um...no?

I'm still in favor of a speed limit only on an ebike. What about when my lardball of a 350lb friend has to go up an overpass?

Lowell said:

What would be silly is seeing a Zero X on a bike path.

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Coming from the guy who's bike isn't that much slower than this thing: LOL.