Introduction

Hello everyone,

My name is Wim and i have been lurking here for a while and decided to take the plunge into E-biking.
In a few month's i will have a new job that's around 40km from my home (i think that's around 25miles one way trip)not sure if i can charge there if not, it will be 50 miles to get back home on my batteries.
As i live in the Netherlands it's all flat over here, the road to my work is all over separate bicycle lanes with minimal stops (traficlights/crossings) maybe 5 over the whole distance.
So now i need some advice, i see alot of topics over high speed and torque but that's not my main issue it's the range and i just need a comfortable speed maybe around 25mile/h.
I'm looking for a kit/motor hub that's good on flat terrain and has a long range. (i don't mind to pedal along).
Any suggestions?

Oh i have several hardtail mtb donors not sure if that's gonna work for those distances but i can always buy a cheap fully later.

Regards,

Wim

That is a bit far for most ebikes. It can be done, but you will need a whole lot of battery to do it. And going slow gets you farther, so 20 mph might be a more reasonable expectation. Get a brushless hubmotor around 5 or 6 hundred watts. They are more efficient and go about 20 mph on 36v.

Get a big lifepo4 battery, like 48v 24 ah from Ping on ebay. Just email him to order a big size and save some money. The battery won't weigh more than 36v lead batteries that may come with the bike kit. Then see how far you can go, and at what speed.

You should have a top speed around 25 mph, but may need to go a little bit less than that to be able to peadle to help extentd range. You can't push a peadle that is going faster that the highest gear you have. Most mountain bikes are geared for 20 mph max. Get the biggest chainring up front you can for a faster peadling top speed.

You will HAVE to charge at work, so get two chargers or carry one around. Good luck, 25 miles is pretty far for biking. I do 15 miles one way, and that is about my limit, just for the time it takes.

Hello Wim, and welcome to the forum.

For flat terrain like you have, and speeds in the 20-25 mph range, I think you will be able to have a system that has an average "burn" rate of only about 20 Wh/mile, tops. For a typical 36V LiFePO4-based setup, that translates to about 500mAh/mile, so for a 50 mile range, you would need a 25Ah pack. Maybe 30Ah, to have a bit of reserve. With a 48V setup, a 20Wh/mile rate translates to roughly 325mAh/mile, which means you would need a capacity of about 18.75Ah, or say 20Ah for reserve, to have a 50 mile range.

As for the motor/controller, there's lots of choices. You don't need gobs of power. Something like a 4-series Crystalyte, or a Bionix hubmotor, would work great, as would a geared Puma, which you can get right across the channel in the UK at Team Hybrid. For packs, again there's quite a few chioces. You can probably get away with the less expensive "Ping" duct tape packs, as you won't really be taxing them all that much, so they should last quite a long time, based on experiences that others have reported here. If you go with a 36V setup, you could get a couple of 36V/16Ah packs, and run them in parallel. A better choice, in my opinion, would be to go with a 48V setup, and that way you could get a single 48V/20Ah pack.

About 15 years ago I did some consulting work for Fokker Aircraft, and I used to spend six weeks at a time over there. I love it there, except for the weather. One of my best friends lives in Gouda, and Amsterdam is sitll one of my favorite cities in the world. I love sipping beer in the Leidzeplein at 10 o'clock at night, with the sun still out (in June...), watching the pretty girls go by That is still high on my list of good uses of my time.

I'm also very envious of all the water you have around you. If I was living there now, I'd definitely would want to do an electric boat. California arguably has the best weather on the planet, but the one thing we don't have here is much water. Even the along the ocean, we don't have a lot of islands, or any sort of inland waterways, at least not in southern California.

-- Gary

Ping doesn't quite have the parralel connectable bms on sale yet. But he can make you a 24 ah 48v if you just email him and say what you need. BTW my inefficient brushed motor and 36 v 20 ah Ping battery goes just about 20 miles, but you still need some reserve for windy days or low tires or whatever. Belive me, you will need it more often than you may think. It's best for almost all batteries to never run em till dead.

Thanks for the replies sofar,

I know i will need a beefy battery but i am still not sure what translates best in range and what's the difference with a for example say: 36V 20Ah battery vs a 48V 20Ah both at 20mph?
Will the 48V battery draw less Amps or am i wasting Voltage for speed then?
Another thing i keep reading is 4xxx series 5xxx series etc, what's exactly the difference is the lower nr at the end more torque? And the higher nr more speed? Or am i wrong here?
One last thing if i decide on a 4series Crystalyte motor (not sure which type) and a 48V 20Ah Batterypack which type of controller do i need?
Especially if i am to upgrade later for a bigger battery?

@ GGoodrum
Summertime is always nice here (if it doesn't rain hehe).
For my current work i have to go with a bikeferry and then a 10km bike ride but that's so short i don't need an E Bike for that, or the alternative route is by car a 65km drive and trough a 7km long tunnel no bikes allowed there.


Wim

I would suggest a Heinzmann bicycle 36v kit, sell the 5Ah battery, and replace it with a Ping 36v20Ah pack. In fact, a 36V12Ah pack from him may be more suitable.

You should be able to ride all day in flat terrain with that setup ... speed will be maybe 29 kph or so. Don't go to 48V unless you feel you really need to go 40-45 kph ... at higher speeds, wind resistance cuts into range.

True enough, the heinesmans are about the best there is, and I hear they have good efficiency.

48v vs 36 v. Basicly to get the speed you seem to want, you will need 48 volts. To get the distance you want, you will need some kind of brushless motor. I love my brushed motor for its low cost and high power, but its an energy hog. For your ride a 400 series crystalite, or a brushless Wilderness Energy are good, less expensive choices. The big chrystalites tend to use more power than the current Ping batteries can safely deliver unless you get one that is really huge, and can put out 40 or 50 amps without going into high discharge rates. Right now the Pings can put out 20 amps endlessly, but the big motors want closer to 40 or more most of the time.

My setup has a 35 amp controller, but on flat ground once up to speed it draws well under the 20 amp safe zone for my battery. Both high amp hours, and high voltage help keep the discharge rate per cell low so the battery is not strained too much.

WimHam said:

Thanks for the replies sofar,

I know i will need a beefy battery but i am still not sure what translates best in range and what's the difference with a for example say: 36V 20Ah battery vs a 48V 20Ah both at 20mph?
Will the 48V battery draw less Amps or am i wasting Voltage for speed then?
Another thing i keep reading is 4xxx series 5xxx series etc, what's exactly the difference is the lower nr at the end more torque? And the higher nr more speed? Or am i wrong here?
One last thing if i decide on a 4series Crystalyte motor (not sure which type) and a 48V 20Ah Batterypack which type of controller do i need?
Especially if i am to upgrade later for a bigger battery?

Wim

Click to expand...

The biggest diffrence between the 40X and the 530X motors is the weight. The 530X is 10 pounds heavier. The 530X has 1/3 more torque, and because of its larger mass, can handle being pushed to the extreem even further than the 40X. The 40X is smaller, lighter, and a little more efficent. A 40X motor on 72 volts will preform about as well as a 530X on 48 volts. on the extream, you can safely run a 40X at about 2 horsepower. the 530X can be pushed to almost 4.

But thats on the extream, and you need efficancy. A 40x being lighter and a little more efficent is probably the way to go. Pluss there are more choises of speeds in the 40X range, so you can pick the motor best suited to your needed cruising speeds.

Forget about your desired top speed for now. A motor and controller work most efficently at top speed, using them at partial throttle isn't as efficent so pick a motor and battery combination that gets you the most torque at the speed you're going to be cruising at. 20mph uses about 2/3 the power as going 25mph. that means a battery that could take you 20 miles could now take you 30. 20mph is also about were wind realy becomes a factor. Aside from efficancy, winter wind at 25 feels 10 times colder than wind at 20mph.

Motor size depends much on your choice of bike and wheel size, but a good combination for a standard mountianbike would be a 408 or 409 motor at 48 volts.

Lets not forget that Heinzmann motors, as gorgeous as they are, still are brushed geared motors! There may be more efficient motors out there!
otherDoc

My geared Heinzmann was more efficient than the gearless c'lyte 405 it replaced.

Brushless does not always mean better.

I absolutely agree, Kbarrett! Im about to test my first brushless motor tonite (Bafang geared) but am a firm believer in brushed, simpler tech! Been riden brushed motors for about 7 years!
otherDoc