Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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LockH   100 GW

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Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997

Post by LockH » Mar 20 2014 9:50pm

Bill Title: In general provisions, further providing for definitions; and, in special vehicles and pedestrians, providing for operation of pedalcycles with electric assist.

Status: (Introduced) 2014-03-18 - Second consideration
AN ACT
Amending Title 75 (Vehicles) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, in general provisions, further providing fordefinitions; and, in special vehicles and pedestrians, providing for operation of pedalcycles with electric assist.
And:
"Pedalcycle with electric assist". A vehicle weighing not more than 100 pounds with two or three wheels more than 11 inches in diameter, manufactured or assembled with an electric motor system rated at not more than 750 watts and equipped with operable pedals and capable of a speed not more than 20 miles
per hour on a level surface when powered by the motor source only. The term does not include a device specifically designed for use by persons with disabilities.
* * *
Section 2. Title 75 is amended by adding a section to read:
§ 3514. Operation of pedalcycles with electric assist.
No person under 16 years of age may operate a pedalcycle with electric assist.

Section 3. This act shall take effect in 60 days.
Penn Senate Bill now open for public [C]omments online, here:
http://legiscan.com/PA/votes/SB997/2013
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Re: Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997

Post by deardancer3 » Mar 21 2014 9:16am

The definition looks good, (Would prefer 1000w and 25mph).

However, what else is involved other than defining a vehicle?

Are the e-bikes allowed/disallowed on certain roads, lanes, paths, etc?
Will county or city governments have the ability to change the definition , or where allowed?
What is the fine for breaking the regulation?
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Re: Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997

Post by LockH » Mar 21 2014 2:53pm

deardancer3 wrote:The definition looks good, (Would prefer 1000w and 25mph).

However, what else is involved other than defining a vehicle?

Are the e-bikes allowed/disallowed on certain roads, lanes, paths, etc?
Will county or city governments have the ability to change the definition , or where allowed?
What is the fine for breaking the regulation?
"Defining the vehicle"? I might assume in accordance with other US laws (750W continuous, 20 mph). But I didn't read the proposed legislation word for word.

Ditto for your other concerns.
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Re: Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997

Post by dogman dan » Mar 23 2014 6:16am

Definitions is in a way, the most important part of the MV codes in any given area. In my state, there is no such thing as an ebike. So we have to make due with moped law written for gas engines. This means I am not allowed on any bike path or trail. But it's just so vague here still that I just ride them anyway with no problems. Clown pedal and nobody thinks a thing.

Very likely, this will clarify that below 750w, its a "bike" and will then be allowed on a path that is barred to stand up scoots, etc. The 100 pound limit will allow a typical commuter bike, but quite possibly bar the "looks like a scooter" types of e bikes. For sure, the heavier versions with 20 ah of 60v in lead should be over 100 lbs.

The wattage thing of course, we know how to fudge. :mrgreen:

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Re: Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997

Post by LockH » Mar 23 2014 8:13am

Stuff I wrote in a message online back in Jul 11, 2009. In part:
I have over 10,000kms experience as commutes driving a motorized vehicle over Toronto sidewalks.... `Been stopped by police more than a dozen times but never given a ticket...

MY electric vehicles are not the scooter-style ebikes but instead stand-up kick scooters that weight less than 60lbs, with an electric assist that provides top speeds of only 20kph and are completely illegal (so far) in this quiet little backwater "Canada".

20Km/h may not sound like much but it is faster than public transit and urban rush hour traffic most of the time.

My "scooter highways" have been the EMPTY sidewalks of Downsview and Don Mills etc, where half the occasional traffic is already on two wheels (as the Victorian pedal bicycle.)
I wish I could speak with these legislators in PA. One might suggest they are about to make a horrible error. (Pandering to the FEAR and IGNORANCE of others.)

I have already [C]ommented (tried to):
Lock
Early last year, the Dutch reported "One million e-cyclists" (on Dutch roads, in 2012, according to their count), seen here:
http://www.fietsberaad.nl/index.cfm?lan ... e-cyclists

(The pop of that country isn't much bigger than the pop in the whole State of Penn. Hint: About 30% of their land is now underwater, plus there are no hills to speak of. It is possible some Dutch are aging.
;)
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But of course, not one human animal "Liked" THAT comment.
:(
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Re: Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997

Post by gogo » Mar 23 2014 8:29am

deardancer3 wrote:The definition looks good, (Would prefer 1000w and 25mph).

However, what else is involved other than defining a vehicle?

Are the e-bikes allowed/disallowed on certain roads, lanes, paths, etc?
Will county or city governments have the ability to change the definition , or where allowed?
What is the fine for breaking the regulation?
In Iowa electric bicycles can be prohibited from off-road paths and trails by specifying 'electric bicycles', but they aren't included in 'motorized vehicles'. Bicycles can't be prohibited from public streets or highways, including the interstate.
and capable of a speed not more than 20 miles per hour on a level surface when powered by the motor source only.
This defines two conditions and allows for the power to be applied above 20 MPH if human power is added. The 20 MPH thing is silly and has been deleted from a proposed revision here in Iowa.
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Re: Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997

Post by LockH » Mar 23 2014 8:45am

Yay! (One might suggest the potatoes really ARE sweeter than in Idaho.):
http://www.leopold.iastate.edu/news/11- ... atoes-iowa

"human power, tailwind, or gravity is added."

Two or three ebiker thumbs up (and maybe the odd toe or two) to "wind" (solar) plus gravity... "Human power", maybe only barely tolerated `cause some crazy old military dude from KY cooks up those other animals (typically feathered, AFAIK).
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Re: Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997

Post by 100volts+ » Mar 23 2014 10:08am

BTW, where does one acquire a 250w stickers to make a motor legal. I need two stickers, one for my completed 13Kw cromotor bike, and one for my 30Kw cromotor mammoth when it's complete. Thx.
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Re: Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997

Post by Dauntless » Mar 24 2014 12:05am

Office Depot has peel and stick you can print on. I'm sure it can be found elsewhere too.

http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/2 ... ick-Sheet/
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Re: Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997

Post by LockH » Mar 24 2014 4:40am

[The extension bmp has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

Works for most provinces in Canada. (Print extra copies for wattEVer... no charge.) :lol:
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Re: Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997

Post by dogman dan » Mar 24 2014 6:40am

I agree, not allowing stand up scooters of similar power and weight as the ebike would be a mistake. It's really dumb, particularly since a 200w stand up scoot works much better for the last mile type commutes combining bus or train.

However, we are looking at the bike definition. Is there a scooter definition proposed?

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Re: Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997

Post by LockH » Mar 24 2014 10:25am

Hehe... According to one theory, having read the thread here "How would you write ideal ebike regulations (Original plus Part 2), some might conclude that according to the Universal Rules of Travel (proposed for the GEBA Krew, and all others) ANY "rules" are fundamentally flawed (eg they might assume some might not respect their neighbors).
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Re: Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997

Post by Joseph C. » Mar 24 2014 10:46am

45 kg is far too light. 90 to 100 kg would cover nearly every bike, trike, cargo bike and Velomobile.
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Re: Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997

Post by LockH » Mar 24 2014 10:47am

ANY "rules" are fundamentally flawed
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Re: Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997

Post by cal3thousand » Mar 24 2014 11:06am

At least they don't define the maximum speed allowed with combined pedal and electric power. That means you can pedal up to 30mph if your motor only does the lower 20mph. Sure the top 10mph will be harder, but cops don't necessarily know that.

"Officer, I was going 30. But my bike does 20 of those and I only do the other 10" :mrgreen:
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Re: Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997

Post by deardancer3 » Mar 24 2014 11:29am

"capable of a speed not more than 20 miles per hour on a level surface when powered by the motor source only. "

I thought that wording could mean-- that as long as the above limitation is true, then with additional leg power, the motor may continue to assist to faster speeds?

sometimes this happens by design, sometimes by accident.

not exactly sure my interpretation is correct though.
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Re: Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997

Post by gogo » Mar 24 2014 12:18pm

deardancer3 wrote:"capable of a speed not more than 20 miles per hour on a level surface when powered by the motor source only. "

I thought that wording could mean-- that as long as the above limitation is true, then with additional leg power, the motor may continue to assist to faster speeds?

sometimes this happens by design, sometimes by accident.

not exactly sure my interpretation is correct though.
d
When considered from the perspective of enforcement, they would have to apply physics equations to any situation where you were not on a level surface while going more than 20 MPH while not pedaling. This, and the fact that pedaling can induce a destabilizing dynamic, makes the provision silly.
manufactured or assembled with an electric motor system rated at not more than 750 watts
Notice this refinement compared to the many state laws now existing. They have removed any ambiguity about motor ratings by specifying 'motor system' and allowed for more than one motor. I like it better than Iowa's vague 'motor' reference which some might interpret as restriction to a discretely single motor (noun), as opposed to motor (adjective), which would allow any combination of discrete motors.
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Re: Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997

Post by LockH » Mar 24 2014 12:21pm

Yaknow... Perhaps some here might move their conversation over to that other thread? (Where some may laugh at them in private.)
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Re: Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997

Post by gogo » Mar 24 2014 12:51pm

LockH wrote:Yaknow... Perhaps some here might move their conversation over to that other thread? (Where some may laugh at them in private.)
You talkin' to me?

I agree that at least by virtue of equivalency with the potential danger to the general public represented by a horse driven carriage, there need be no special regulation for two-wheeled conveyances where the operator is clearly at as much risk of his own injury, if not more, than the driver of the horse conveyance.

We don't need regulation. We need to hold drivers accountable for injuring and murdering.
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Re: Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997

Post by LockH » Mar 24 2014 1:18pm

"You talkin' to me?"

If you re-read what I wrote, you may notice I was carefull not to suggest any names. (Of either the "guilty", etc.)

"We don't need regulation. We need to hold drivers accountable for injuring and murdering."

Simple solution, maybe.

Just put parent names (the parents of the vehicle operator) in a big hat.

Once a year, draw one name from that hat.

Then, parents and friends of those lost (or maybe severely injured/scarred for life), toss loser boy (or grrrl) off a tall cliff (saves bullets, electricity, prison food, etc., etc., and more importantly sends a warning to other parents or prospective/wannabe vehicle operators.)

(See also Doggie Treats for Master DMs friends, et al.)

((Sorry about the Latin.))
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Re: Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997

Post by aroundqube » May 01 2014 12:37am

Looking at www.legis.state.pa Senate Roll Calls March 31,2014 " Final Passage " - YEAS 47 , NAYS 0 ,LVE 0, N/V 2 - Total 49 Referred to TRANSPORTATION April 2,2014


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Re: Pennsylvania- E-Bikes Now Street Legal

Post by LockH » Nov 17 2014 10:43am

"Electric Bikes Are Now Legal on Pennsylvania Roadways!"... Haven't read, but assume there is a "catch".

See also maybe:
https://www.southpa.aaa.com/about-us/our-history
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Re: Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997

Post by aroundqube » Nov 20 2014 1:38am

It looks like the text could be here; printers number 4170 http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/bil ... e=B&bn=573

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Re: Pennsylvania- E-Bikes Now Street Legal

Post by John in CR » Nov 20 2014 4:16am

LockH wrote:"Electric Bikes Are Now Legal on Pennsylvania Roadways!"... Haven't read, but assume there is a "catch".
Yeah there are plenty of "catches", since it's obvious that pedalists wrote the law. If I lived in PA it would piss me off just enough to build a "legal" ebike using a hubmotor tested and rated at 750W at 1rpm as well as rated at 750W at 12V, which is all the battery that would be attached to the bike. I'd carry the other 62V in a backpack to stay within the weight limit. While the throttle would have a hard limit of 20mph, pedal assist would unleash full power and speed to make it safe in traffic. That would enable me to run my extreme power ebike within the law by simply installing the chain with crazy high gearing, adding a PAS sensor, and adjusting the voltage output of the throttle.

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