2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
want to build   100 W

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by want to build » Sep 16 2020 8:39pm

hi , dont take my answer for granted since i have not yet installed one but ,
i dont see what could block you from installing 2. the only thing is that you need to doouble check the width of front fork. mine could not accept it ... too narrow .

What situation have you read that could block one from installing 2 motor on one bike?

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by donn » Sep 16 2020 8:49pm

He may have really meant something more like "is this a good idea", when he asked if this was "possible." Which is a very different question, and one that comes up every once in a while around here, but unfortunately I have no links. Would the interesting thing about this motor be, that you could put the two hubs in different gears, and whichever is in the best RPM range would take most of the load?

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by want to build » Sep 16 2020 9:40pm

donn wrote:
Sep 16 2020 8:49pm
He may have really meant something more like "is this a good idea", when he asked if this was "possible." Which is a very different question, and one that comes up every once in a while around here, but unfortunately I have no links. Would the interesting thing about this motor be, that you could put the two hubs in different gears, and whichever is in the best RPM range would take most of the load?
Isnt it supposed to be easy (maybe even automatic never used it) to switch from one gear to the other one ON ONE motor?
if yes no need to have two . (unless you transport a titanic boat behind big load)

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by d8veh » Sep 17 2020 4:34pm

It's possible, but desn't make any sense at all. These motors have the advantage that they're small, lightweight and can produce a lot of torque with relatively low power by allowing the bike to run more slowly than a normal motor. Two Q128s would be the same weight, but would blitz a pair of Xiongdas in a climbing contest. A single Mac would be lighter and a lot simpler.

if you want to run with two Xiongdas, you'll need to install two LCDs and have two control panels, which will make changing power very awkward.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by want to build » Sep 21 2020 9:52pm

d8veh wrote:
Sep 17 2020 4:34pm
It's possible, but desn't make any sense at all. These motors have the advantage that they're small, lightweight and can produce a lot of torque with relatively low power by allowing the bike to run more slowly than a normal motor. Two Q128s would be the same weight, but would blitz a pair of Xiongdas in a climbing contest. A single Mac would be lighter and a lot simpler.

if you want to run with two Xiongdas, you'll need to install two LCDs and have two control panels, which will make changing power very awkward.
when you sayTwo Q128s would be the same weight, but would blitz a pair of Xiongdas in a climbing contest, what do you mean? they would do the same job but faster?
wouldn t 2 xiongda be supposed to bring uphill a much heavier load than 2 q128?

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by want to build » Oct 07 2020 10:56pm

knutselmaaster wrote:
Jun 28 2020 5:50am
I've built dozens of bikes with these motors.
Never had any problems with sun gears, not even on older versions.
I admit that I choose motors for my clients according to their usage and situation so this prevents breakage because of unadapted installation.
If you want to be extra assured of durability, keep the C5 setting at 6 or lower so that the system doesn't run on max power, you will hardly feel the difference.
Most of these motors make a crackling sound when backing up the bike (from time to time), it sounds painful but doesn't seem to damage anything.
It is caused by the clutch keeping engaged
This can be prevented by forcing the system on L gear (with the H A L switch) before stopping.
hi i had help to lace up my rays. once pushed it has clearly more resistance than a wheel without it but is this speed
Is the RESISTANCE in this video considered normal?

<a href="https://www.casimages.com/f/43X8mWILvUb" target="_blank">Lien vers mon fichier</a>

https://www.casimages.com/f/43X8mWILvUb

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by knutselmaaster » Oct 08 2020 12:41am

Yes it seems normal. The drag will get less once it has been in use for a while. Mind that with only the rim and no tyres, there is not much weight so the slightest drag is clearly visible.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by want to build » Oct 08 2020 10:59pm

Ok ill keep hoping . tx.


someone told me to put 2 breacker in my setup to protect the parts.

one between the motor and controller
and
one between the controler and battery

what do you think about this idea and also how to determine which resistance of fuse to use?

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by knutselmaaster » Oct 09 2020 1:07am

That someone doesn't understand the workings of the system.
There is no way to put fuses between the motor and the controller.
And your battery should be equipped with a descent BMS with short circuit protection and a fuse already. If it hasn't got a good BMS, I strongly advise to change the battery for a safe one. You can always install a 30A fuse in the positive wire between the battery and the controller as an extra safety but it shouldn't be necessary.

AngryBob   1 kW

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by AngryBob » Oct 09 2020 3:22pm

I am really having a hard time understanding how anyone could possibly have read most of this thread and still think purchasing one of these is a sound decision.

Perhaps you do not know that the two primary cheerleaders, early on, for this product received hundreds of dollars worth of "free" merchandise from the primary US vendor, right about the same time?

Also that the current primary cheerleader is a vendor for the product, outside the US?

That the backwards-rolling event which results in catastrophic gear failure, while definitely related to this failure, can NOT be isolated as the sole and only cause of this failure?

Maybe it is just the Gee-Whiz nature of the mechanism, but anyone seeking a reliable product should definitely look elsewhere.
"Not being treated like a dumb dick is one of the incentives we have to become less stupid." - Balmorhea.

knutselmaaster   1 kW

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by knutselmaaster » Oct 09 2020 3:50pm

Bobby, please tell me where there would be an advantage for me as a reseller to share my experience with this product to users that already bought it (elsewhere)?
My motivation to help is just that; I want to help out others in this community in the same way other people in here helped me before.
You won't find any commercial activities from me in here, you won't even find the name and location of my shop.
I did not acquire 1 single client through this forum, and I don't want to do so neither.

Your reasoning is completely foolish, based on second hand experience and assumptions.
I've built lots of bikes with this motor and not even one of them has broken or even slightly disappointed the users.

It is quite logic to find people with problems posting in a forum that serves to help people with problems...

Please go troll elsewhere, if you don't have anything constructive to add.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by AngryBob » Oct 09 2020 6:04pm

Knutsy, you are in fact a vendor for this product and have not publicly identified yourself as such.
You have a profit motive for your statements and this should be known to all who read them.

I doubt there is another motor responsible for the number of failures in a fairly short period of time relative to sales as this one is.

I am by no means the first or only one to recognize the fundamental design flaws and inherent lack of reliability of this piece of equipment. I'm just willing to be a bit more blunt about it.

I also read the posts, not in this thread, from the two users who, shortly after rather inexplicably and, strangely, enthusiastically promoting this device, stated that they had received, free of charge, complete kits from a particular vendor who shall remain nameless, for "evaluation purposes". Yet, no such evaluation was ever published here.

Quite simply, this thing is an unreliable piece of crud and several people are being paid to lie to the userbase about it.

I will point out here that the one fellow with an initial and an engineering backround did an absolutely MASTERFUL job of attempting to explain the units faults without actually telling a lie. It was a truly beautiful piece of creative writing and is worthy of close examination for its instructional value in how to BS effectively without actually speaking an untruth. Kudos.
"Not being treated like a dumb dick is one of the incentives we have to become less stupid." - Balmorhea.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by want to build » Oct 09 2020 10:06pm

knutselmaaster wrote:
Oct 09 2020 1:07am
That someone doesn't understand the workings of the system.
There is no way to put fuses between the motor and the controller.
And your battery should be equipped with a descent BMS with short circuit protection and a fuse already. If it hasn't got a good BMS, I strongly advise to change the battery for a safe one. You can always install a 30A fuse in the positive wire between the battery and the controller as an extra safety but it shouldn't be necessary.
hi
why can twe place a breaker between the motor and the controller.?

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by want to build » Oct 09 2020 10:11pm

AngryBob wrote:
Oct 09 2020 6:04pm
Knutsy, you are in fact a vendor for this product and have not publicly identified yourself as such.
You have a profit motive for your statements and this should be known to all who read them.

I doubt there is another motor responsible for the number of failures in a fairly short period of time relative to sales as this one is.

I am by no means the first or only one to recognize the fundamental design flaws and inherent lack of reliability of this piece of equipment. I'm just willing to be a bit more blunt about it.

I also read the posts, not in this thread, from the two users who, shortly after rather inexplicably and, strangely, enthusiastically promoting this device, stated that they had received, free of charge, complete kits from a particular vendor who shall remain nameless, for "evaluation purposes". Yet, no such evaluation was ever published here.

Quite simply, this thing is an unreliable piece of crud and several people are being paid to lie to the userbase about it.

I will point out here that the one fellow with an initial and an engineering backround did an absolutely MASTERFUL job of attempting to explain the units faults without actually telling a lie. It was a truly beautiful piece of creative writing and is worthy of close examination for its instructional value in how to BS effectively without actually speaking an untruth. Kudos.
HI

Is there a possibilité that endless sphere can censor or remove negative review of a particular product?
I mean if it was a garbage motor unworthy, wouldn't there be a lot of complaints and failure report? Im just trying to get the over view.

2old   100 kW

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by 2old » Oct 09 2020 10:21pm

ES seems to have a problem with individuals denigrating products and vendors they have neither used nor patronized. I had great service from a vendor on their "hate list" and was excoriated for posting about it from people who had never purchased from the supplier. One even accused me of being the vendor "in disguise" even though I had never met him.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by Ecyclist » Oct 10 2020 3:03am

@AngryBob you are making a big production about nothing. Almost all e-bike kits are made in China and they all have some problems. Even $3000 Tangent kit made in US had problems.
Considering that Xiongda 2 speed is about $250 including shipping it is a OK deal. I had mine for almost 3 years and after initial problem and work I had to put into it I have to say that I'm happy with my kit.
Xiongda on Gekko 1.JPG
Xiongda on Gekko 1.JPG (156.21 KiB) Viewed 260 times
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252

knutselmaaster   1 kW

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by knutselmaaster » Oct 10 2020 3:42am

want to build wrote:
Oct 09 2020 10:06pm
knutselmaaster wrote:
Oct 09 2020 1:07am
That someone doesn't understand the workings of the system.
There is no way to put fuses between the motor and the controller.
And your battery should be equipped with a descent BMS with short circuit protection and a fuse already. If it hasn't got a good BMS, I strongly advise to change the battery for a safe one. You can always install a 30A fuse in the positive wire between the battery and the controller as an extra safety but it shouldn't be necessary.
hi
why can twe place a breaker between the motor and the controller.?
There are 9 wires, even if it won't be needing a fuse on each one that will be a whole lot of fuses.
The 3 phase wires have quite high peak power in a very high frequency, that won't be easy to fuse properly and reliably, the time needed for a fuse to blow might be higher than the phase will be active (I think).
The low cost of the parts in the system will probably make it less expensive to replace than to fuse, not to mention the extra space needed and the extra waterproofing problems that will arise.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by AngryBob » Oct 10 2020 7:31am

Want to Build, I will invite you to do some research.

Read this entire thread. Search for and read every mention of this kit on this site. Count the number of shattered gears, and come back and report it.

You should also do the same breakage analysis for a couple other small geared hubs in order to have a reasonable baseline.

I can put you in touch with someone who has made that breakage analysis. The comparison of those two counts will definitively answer your question regarding censorship.

Also, if you come across anyone hot-rodding this 250W motor, note those. Also note relationship to rolling it backwards, and those who avoided this.

If you think a reputable vendor would not consider stating that you can run 1500W thru this motor, then I can help you define "reputable".

As an alternative, pick a number that, in your opinion, is TOO HIGH. Five, eight, ten? What number would do it for you? Note - the actual number recorded some time ago is higher than those given. That's not including the two hall sensor failures. The shattered gears are a direct result of design and likely quality control issues.

As for your motor/controller fusing question, I do not have an electrical engineering backround, but I can say I have never seen anyone actually do it, or even seriously contemplate doing it, and that includes a lot of people running over 10 times this power level, and many who are very safety-conscious, and even several who are both. I conclude from this that it is either not feasible, or not worthwhile, or both.
"Not being treated like a dumb dick is one of the incentives we have to become less stupid." - Balmorhea.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by ebike4healthandfitness » Oct 11 2020 7:45pm

qwerkus wrote:
Oct 02 2017 11:18am
Hmmm - I'm not a fan of manually bending dropouts; it's almost impossible to do it in a properly centered way. Though I found this one on aliexpress: 3 speed freewheel It's only 17.5mm wide, and fits easily onto a xd2 disc rear hub. I actually measured 26mm free space, which means a similar freewheel design than the one on aliexpress should be possible with 5 speed, but I could not find one. Most 5 speed seem 30-31mm wide - not to mention the difficulty to find a proper 5sp shifter!
5 speed freewheel should fit the 135mm disc hub version as Sheldon Brown mentions it only takes 24mm space:

https://sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html

P.S. I am interested in the 135mm disc version because using it results in a wheel that only needs a very small amount of dishing (Therefore making the rear wheel stronger.)
Last edited by ebike4healthandfitness on Oct 11 2020 9:20pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by ebike4healthandfitness » Oct 11 2020 8:03pm

AngryBob wrote:
Oct 10 2020 7:31am
Also note relationship to rolling it backwards, and those who avoided this.
This is something that seems very concerning (even though I am not planning on using the 2 speed hub with a heavy trike), but I did read the following:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=58490&p=1280929&hil ... s#p1280929
cycleops612 wrote:
Apr 19 2017 3:05am
FYI, a response fr bonnie at XD

re "Last I checked, u dont have a 24" wheel & hub kit?

is this still so?

I would consider cast alloy wheel w/ integrated hub motor.

its for an adult tricycle, & they are mostly 24"

is it true rolling trikes backwards damages the xd hub?"


bonnie:

"now we have one 24inch black rim in stock.
so we can offer you one 24" wheel&hub kit.

But we do not have a intergrated 24inch rim motor for double-speed motor.

in the first year, we did not find the problem of the clutch,
so the clutch will get stucked when you pull the bike backwards.
However we solved this problem, you can push the bike backwards
as hard as you want, no problem."
......and the following poster (who made the post below more than a year later) reported his new 2 speed hub did not have the backwards rolling problem:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=58490&p=1386805&hil ... s#p1386805
BCBeaver wrote:
Jun 11 2018 8:24pm

As for the rolling backwards issue, occasionally when I rolled it backwards it wouldn't turn. A little rollforward then back and it would usually go. When I was building the wheel in the stand it would never roll backwards. Now after 720km it rolls backwards every time. The new on I'm building is in the trueing stand right now and turns both ways no problem.
.....so the backwards rolling problem does appear to have been fixed on the later manufacture hubs.
Last edited by ebike4healthandfitness on Oct 11 2020 8:38pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by want to build » Oct 11 2020 8:31pm

knutselmaaster wrote:
Oct 10 2020 3:42am
want to build wrote:
Oct 09 2020 10:06pm
knutselmaaster wrote:
Oct 09 2020 1:07am
That someone doesn't understand the workings of the system.
There is no way to put fuses between the motor and the controller.
And your battery should be equipped with a descent BMS with short circuit protection and a fuse already. If it hasn't got a good BMS, I strongly advise to change the battery for a safe one. You can always install a 30A fuse in the positive wire between the battery and the controller as an extra safety but it shouldn't be necessary.
hi
why can twe place a breaker between the motor and the controller.?
There are 9 wires, even if it won't be needing a fuse on each one that will be a whole lot of fuses.
The 3 phase wires have quite high peak power in a very high frequency, that won't be easy to fuse properly and reliably, the time needed for a fuse to blow might be higher than the phase will be active (I think).
The low cost of the parts in the system will probably make it less expensive to replace than to fuse, not to mention the extra space needed and the extra waterproofing problems that will arise.
thanks for your answer . i realise how much there is i dont know in this universe of electronic hahaha ill follow your advice tx

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by want to build » Oct 11 2020 8:45pm

AngryBob wrote:
Oct 10 2020 7:31am


If you think a reputable vendor would not consider stating that you can run 1500W thru this motor, then I can help you define "reputable".

As
hi

Not that i m retarded or something but i dont understant this sentence cause it is complex and assumptions. could you rephrase it for me and maybe tell me what there is to know like 1500 w what do you mean ?

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by qwerkus » Oct 12 2020 4:44am

ebike4healthandfitness wrote:
Oct 11 2020 7:45pm
qwerkus wrote:
Oct 02 2017 11:18am
Hmmm - I'm not a fan of manually bending dropouts; it's almost impossible to do it in a properly centered way. Though I found this one on aliexpress: 3 speed freewheel It's only 17.5mm wide, and fits easily onto a xd2 disc rear hub. I actually measured 26mm free space, which means a similar freewheel design than the one on aliexpress should be possible with 5 speed, but I could not find one. Most 5 speed seem 30-31mm wide - not to mention the difficulty to find a proper 5sp shifter!
5 speed freewheel should fit the 135mm disc hub version as Sheldon Brown mentions it only takes 24mm space:

https://sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html

P.S. I am interested in the 135mm disc version because using it results in a wheel that only needs a very small amount of dishing (Therefore making the rear wheel stronger.)
Depends on your dropout, but I'd say too tight and the chain will rub against the dropout. You have to add chain width to the actual freewheel width.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by knutselmaaster » Oct 12 2020 4:56am

They made me a 120mm (no disc) version lately, for a single speed bike.
Given the width of a single speed freewheel, it seemed to me that a 5 speed freewheel would easily pass in a 130mm frame.
The disc version of the motor is about 10mm wider so it might be possible, but it will be just.
Stretching a frame for 2 or 3 mm won't be any problem, if your frame cannot handle that, it won't be able to handle the 70nm of the motor neither.
A lot of 135mm frames are already a bit wider than 135mm in reality by the way, be sure to measure the actual width on the frame and not on the original wheel.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by max3d » Oct 12 2020 3:43pm

want to build wrote:
Sep 16 2020 9:40pm
donn wrote:
Sep 16 2020 8:49pm
He may have really meant something more like "is this a good idea", when he asked if this was "possible." Which is a very different question, and one that comes up every once in a while around here, but unfortunately I have no links. Would the interesting thing about this motor be, that you could put the two hubs in different gears, and whichever is in the best RPM range would take most of the load?
Isnt it supposed to be easy (maybe even automatic never used it) to switch from one gear to the other one ON ONE motor?
if yes no need to have two . (unless you transport a titanic boat behind big load)

No Titanic here, but a hill > 22%.
I tried with a 70 NM mid engine and 7 gears, couldn't reach the top.
So I estimate I will need two Xiongda's to get there. Probably will wire the front one through the gas handle and with a permanent Low gear setting to be sure.

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