2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by Buk___ » Oct 05, 2017 8:16 am

d8veh wrote:I started with a 36v version. I added some solder to the shunt to take the current up to 20 amps. That made it pull 33% more up hills. Then I tried the 48v version at 15 amps, which was just about the same as the 36v one at 20 amps, but not long after I got it, I dropped the bike and damaged the motor wire. While I was waiting to repair it, I put the 36v motor in and ran it at 48v. It ran fine, though O could tell that in high gear, it wasn't very efficient, and low gear became too fast to act as a winch. I'd say that there's absolutely no point in over-volting these motors because you lose more than you gain. The 48v one with everything standard has immense climbing power. If you need more speed, you'd be better off with a Bafang BPM, MAC or Q128 with higher current.
Thanks for your reply. I read your thread about running a 36V @48V (And I think most of your others about the XD2 here and elsewhere.)

I have a 36V battery pack that cost me nothing, 'cept a week of my time and the kind and patient assistance of the guys here. That was intended to power a 36V500 DD kit I bought from Amazon. The thing arrived and dropped straight in and before going through the process of routing the cables, and working out placement for all the controls etc. I decided to take it out for a short spin on pedal power alone. I set off using the middle chain ring and the second smallest cog as normal -- its down hill from my drive for the first few hundred meters and 35m decent -- and everything felt remarkably similar despite the 10.5kg hub motor -- if anything the extra rolling mass made it feel more stable at low speed -- but then I turned around and tried to change into lower gears for the return and discovered that the rear derailleur wouldn't shift down past the middle of 7 rear cogs. The spindle of the lower idle wheel connected with the casing of the motor.

I pushed it home -- which with the steep climb back, and already heavyweight bike and the extra 10+ kilos was bloody hard work. I spent a couple of hours adjust the limits on the derailleur, and tried moving a washer from left side to right side to move the wheel away etc. but whilst I succeeded in getting one more, with the extra weight, the two smallest rings (and granny ring) would be imperative to getting me home if I ever run out of juice. It went back for a full refund.

So now I've been looking around at all the options and I'm whilst I'm pretty much sold on the XD2; I'm still umming and ahhing about 36v or 48v. for 90% of what I do the 36v will be perfect -- more than enough speed on local roads, narrow, bendy country lanes and shared use cycle paths; and enough grunt to assist me with the climb home if I've any power left, and not so much extra weight if I haven't.

But, I occasionally do use a few A roads to get to small towns and villages around the city where I live and on those it would be nice to have the option of a little more than 25kph.

I looked at the prospects of adding an extra 4s4p pack to my setup, but dire warnings of ensuring that both packs are balanced, along with having to buy a second charger for that pack and ... has somewhat put me off of the idea. I could perhaps sell the 10s4p pack I have and buy a 48v pack.

But then I came across wturber's thread about using a DC boost converter. and -- bear in mind I only know as much as I've read, retained, and possibly not fully understood, so don't jump on me if this is garbage; BUT DO TELL ME!

My though is to stick with the 36v pack and add booster. The pack would be wired to the PAS and throttle in the normal way, but I would have a boost button that switches (still thinking about how; I know I need to preload the switch; but what else?) the boost in at (say) 40V. The idea is that most of the time I'd use PAS or throttle depending on my energy levels, but if I want more speed, I throttle up to the top speed using the pack alone before pressing/holding the boost button to increase the speed.

From what you say above, the boost would be useless on hills low-speed hills -- but that could be enhanced by this shunt soldering (or I read, current limiting resistor modification) -- but should be okay on relatively level, long straight runs.

I'm not looking to add to the youtube collecting of hooning vids, just cover the 10/15 miles between towns a little more rapidly.

Wadda ya think?

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by Ecyclist » Jan 27, 2018 5:56 pm

I just installed Xiongda 2 speed on my son's trike.
Xiongda on Gekko 3.JPG
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I ordered 48V version with all possible options (I had 48V battery and ordered second). I decided on 135mm rear drive with 6 speed freewheel. So far, I'm happy with everything and my son is ecstatic. He can ride it a little over 20mph on a flat road. On the flat the motor is very quiet. Going up a steep hill I can hear tranny but this in normal and the motor pulls about 700W (LCD reading).
Xiongda on Gekko 1.JPG
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Xiongda on Gekko 2.JPG
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My kit came with spokes (13G $8.00 extra) but, the chain side spokes where 2mm too long and I had to use dremel tool to grind them flush with nuts. My ERD was 550mm and spokes I received form Xiongda were 233mm and 232mm. In my case 233mm and 230mm for 2 cross would be perfect.
In my opinion using 14G spokes is a better choice.
I think that you will be happy with either motor assuming that you follow factory settings. Xiongda motors are optimized specifically for bicycles and, I think, if not pushed over the limit, will work fine. These are not Cyclone motors that are made for rickshaws, but used on bicycles and can be set to work harder.
Bonnie was great to work with.
My 2 cents.
Any questions, just ask.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by KimCabq » Feb 19, 2018 6:05 pm

First, I would like to thank docnjoj, d8veh, menvert, Alan B, Knutselmaaster, bigoilbob, and many more who have contributed to this interesting discussion about the Xiongda 2-speed motor. I just came across this site recently and have read through it all. I appreciate the learning curve you folks have experienced while persevering with this new product and thank you for your efforts.
So I could use some wisdom for my own application and would appreciate hearing from any/all who have experience with these double geared hub units.
I am involved with a VA group that specializes in adaptive cycling equipment for disabled vets. The VA will help the vets get a bike or trike so that they can continue getting exercise in spite of certain physical limitations. And I want to help the group get their bikes set up with motors to assist them on longer runs and up long, sometimes steep hills. Most of the time the grades are less than 5-7%, but they can continue for 7-10 miles.
The challenge is that this group has spinal injuries and balance problems so trikes are the default and, interestingly, HASE trikes are becoming the go-to standard because they are the only ones offering a wide selection of adaptive specific accessories. HASE has invested heavily in developing new technologies for adaptive needs and are now the only trikes many of our folks can ride.
However, the VA will not assist the vets in an electric motor upgrade because they do not want to counter the intended purpose of getting more exercise. I have explained how an electric assist could actually contribute to more riding, but government ears can be very deaf.
So I am trying to determine what type of kit I could get that would be relatively inexpensive, reasonably reliable, easy to maintain, 20mph top end on 300lb trike / rider combo, capable of at least 20 mile rides, and good for readily climbing our front range paths and occasionally on mountainous backroads. All travel is on either paved or well-maintained packed dirt paths. And at first I will probably be the primary person for installation and maintenance, so I need to keep things simple enough for a tired old man to handle.
Please keep in mind, we do not want the motor to replace pedaling, expect in an unusual event. Exercise is our first goal, but it is the gentle touring kind, not racing nor MTB. I would like to find gentle assist systems that would include both PAS and a slow ramp-up independent throttle.
So I have become very interested in the Xiongda double gear and/or Eric’s upgraded Luna version. But would you all recommend these motors for our application, or something different? I have looked closely at Bafang and other mid drives as well as large front hub motors (most trikes in the group are delta’s), but I have not yet been able to decide.
Thanks for your help. I value your input and take it seriously.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by docnjoj » Feb 20, 2018 8:10 am

Steintrike also has adaptive technology, namely a hand driven replacement for the foot pedals. Contact Victor at the plant in Serbia or this guy at Wildfire in the USA.. Much less expensive than Hase.
otherDoc

http://www.wildfirehpv.com/steintrikes/
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by KimCabq » Feb 20, 2018 5:03 pm

"Steintrike also has adaptive technology, namely a hand driven replacement for the foot pedals. "

Thanks docnjoj!
The Steintrikes are very interesting but we do not have local dealers who are familiar with them but have several LBS that work on the HASE units. Also,nearly all of our riders prefer deltas over tadpoles because the tadpoles are more difficult to get into / out of and not as comfortable for them to ride. The higher seating in the HASE deltas makes a BIG difference. And HASE has proven to be very helpful in developing custom accessories that make it possible for more folks to participate. I seriously doubt that I could convince anyone to add Steintrike to our supplier choices at this point in time.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by KimCabq » Feb 22, 2018 10:46 am

docnjoj,
I notice your 'stable' includes a Sun USX. I own the HD model so i was wondering if you ever tried the Xiongda on it? I am considering trying it on mine and was wondering what you think of that combination?

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by docnjoj » Feb 23, 2018 8:32 am

I had enough difficulties with the Xiongda motor on my trike so I would hesitate to use it on the USX that my wife drives. She has a small geared motor from Ebikekit and I am using a Qute100H for my motor. Both have been adequate power and trouble free for at least 2 years.
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by KimCabq » Feb 23, 2018 11:00 am

docnjoj wrote:
Feb 23, 2018 8:32 am
I would hesitate to use it on the USX that my wife drives.
i understand. my wife's bike is off limits for my bleeding edge R&D! :D

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by Ozzzz » Apr 04, 2018 8:11 pm

My latest touring project XD @ 36v.. It's a bit of a slug, the throttle response is like throwing a cracker among a group of tortoise.. tortii?.. but with these two em3ev dolphins, 31A/H should have good range under the shell :)
Screen Shot 2018-04-05 at 10.24.18 am.png

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by Ecyclist » Apr 05, 2018 11:45 pm

@KimCabq
My son is disabled and has problem with balance. At first, we tried a standard adult trike from Walmart. That thing was so unstable that even my wife was not able to ride it at 5mph. Shortly after that, I realized that teardrop trike was the only way to go. For me, stability of the bike is much more important than ease of getting into one. Of course, every case is different and should be dealt with according to particular needs. We live in a hilly neighborhood, and the problem with a trike is that, once you get bugged down going up the hill you are screwed. This can also happen with the bike that has pedalec only. That's why my son's trike has both, pedalec and throttle. Once he slows down going up the hill and pedalec stops working, he can still keep moving by using throttle. This can be very important for disabled, old, or not strong riders. I had to make a couple of brackets to have it up to my standards. Assuming that your project is non-profit and not some kind of a scam, I might be able to help you with installing motors on trikes for disabled vets and other disabled people. Once you decide on particular bike and kit, you can contact me and I will see what I can do. Most of these kits are for regular bikes and you will need couple extra brackets to get it right.
Regarding our government, the problem is that the people in the office don't understand psychological part of the problem.
For many people, it is more important to get out of the house, be with other people and do something to get their mental health in order.
This may be more vital than physical fitness.
Good luck with your project.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by Ecyclist » Apr 11, 2018 5:13 pm

Update on my install of 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor.
The bad news is:
After only 39 miles, Xiongda motor's high speed transmission stopped working.
The motor powers the bike on the low gear and I can hear changing rotation of the motor, but the high speed gear does not engage.
The good news is:
Bonnie replied to my email el pronto and Xiongda is shipping a new sungear, a tool to open the motor, and a video how to do replacement.
The bad news is:
I have to deal with a brand new motor.
The good news is:
I'm capable of doing it and I will do thorough inspection of everything inside.
Stay tuned.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by Xray » Apr 12, 2018 3:00 am

Has anyone installed this in a 20" (406) wheel? Any idea what top speed would be ? Would it hold up to using in a tandem bike where weight would be 400 pounds or so?

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by knutselmaaster » Apr 12, 2018 5:41 am

If you ask for a 20" version, top speed would be around 30km/h.
A 26"/28" version would do about 20km/h in a 20" wheel, with enormous amount of torque.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by Alan B » Apr 12, 2018 6:21 am

Xray wrote:
Apr 12, 2018 3:00 am
Has anyone installed this in a 20" (406) wheel? Any idea what top speed would be ? Would it hold up to using in a tandem bike where weight would be 400 pounds or so?
I have the Luna supplied version in the 20" (406) wheel using 14S/52V. It has been awhile since I tested it (need to do further testing), but if memory serves I was getting about 11 mph in low and 25 in high. It is not speedy, but it sips power and will climb 15% easily (in low) with a load of about 250 lbs.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by Ecyclist » Apr 12, 2018 10:49 am

Xray wrote:
Apr 12, 2018 3:00 am
Has anyone installed this in a 20" (406) wheel? Any idea what top speed would be ? Would it hold up to using in a tandem bike where weight would be 400 pounds or so?
Are you actually serious???
I just posted failure of Xiongda that was used under normal 200 lb. total load and you are asking if this can be used with 400 lb. load?
Get a mid drive dude. Something like Cyclone.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by Alan B » Apr 12, 2018 11:48 am

We mostly see failure reports here, and in pretty small numbers compared to the likely numbers of product in the field. Xiongda support has been good.

400 pounds of load is a lot for any small hubmotor, especially if mounted in large wheels.

Making a Cyclone work in a 400 pound load situation is a project. The provided brackets flex a lot and the drive makes noise that some find objectionable. The simple controller provided is a bit sensitive and hard to manage at low throttle. It requires a fairly high current battery, more than many batteries are designed to deliver. It does provide a lot of power for a low cost and those who are willing to work through the issues may be satisfied with the result at the price point.

The best way to get advice for a project is to start a thread on it and work through the requirements and goals, and get a discussion going with various proposed solutions to work through.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by knutselmaaster » Apr 12, 2018 12:39 pm

Ecyclist wrote:
Apr 12, 2018 10:49 am
Are you actually serious???
I just posted failure of Xiongda that was used under normal 200 lb. total load and you are asking if this can be used with 400 lb. load?
Get a mid drive dude. Something like Cyclone.
With all due respect, but your experience is not significant for all of the 2 speed motors. You cannot say that this motor will always break down, just because your motor has a problem.
I built 7 bikes with this motor already, and none of them has broken down. Some of them have been intensively tested under rough circumstances and they are still running perfectly.
That doesn't make me say that the motor is indestructible though, but I think in your case you just had bad luck.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by Ozzzz » Apr 12, 2018 1:00 pm

I have three, two have been fine so far. The third has (mtr) issues after a few weeks it may have a loose wire, I need to check. I could also only think of water ingress as I left it out in the rain.. The throttle is intermittent but the throttle and controller work fine.

knutselmaaster, Alan or others, any thoughts on water resisting for these motors?

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by Ecyclist » Apr 12, 2018 8:56 pm

knutselmaaster wrote:
Apr 12, 2018 12:39 pm
Ecyclist wrote:
Apr 12, 2018 10:49 am
Are you actually serious???
I just posted failure of Xiongda that was used under normal 200 lb. total load and you are asking if this can be used with 400 lb. load?
Get a mid drive dude. Something like Cyclone.
With all due respect, but your experience is not significant for all of the 2 speed motors. You cannot say that this motor will always break down, just because your motor has a problem.
I built 7 bikes with this motor already, and none of them has broken down. Some of them have been intensively tested under rough circumstances and they are still running perfectly.
That doesn't make me say that the motor is indestructible though, but I think in your case you just had bad luck.
Just so we are on the same page, I never said that "this motor will always break down", so with due respect, don't put words in my mouth. These motors are made to do adequate job for normal use, and I still hope that my unit will work fine after I change the sungear. It is definitely not made to take 400 lb. load. People don't like to post on forums about bad experience because they are afraid of being bashed. I don't mind that. It is a dirty job, but someone has got to do it.
I said it before and I say it again, Bonnie is doing a fantastic job, but still the transmission failure after only 39 miles of moderate usage...
BTW: I'm not the only one who has problems with Xiongda. Just read post by docnjoj on this page.
And, if comes to my experience, I have more than 40 years of mechanical engineering and manufacturing under my belt.
I designed and built my own transmission that works better than anything else out there, and I'm still working on improving it.
Like I said before, once I get my parts I will do a thorough inspection of everything inside. This will benefit everyone who bought or is interested in buying the 2 speed Xiongda motor. I'm assuming that you are interested to know, but maybe I'm wrong. Give me some feedback.
I was not planning on doing it, but now, once I have to get my hands dirty, I will get to the bottom of it.
My curiosity trumps my laziness.
Just so you know, I own or have access to every measuring tool known to mankind including CMM.

@knutselmaaster
Did you ever open and inspect components of these motors?
Any meaningful observations?

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by craiggor » Apr 13, 2018 6:23 am

When mine broke I noticed on pulling it apart there was only one spring in the clutch the pencil is pointing to it. In the line drawing there is 3. I asked Bonnie about this and she said that one was normal. I'm not an engineer but surely this is something to do with the clutch locking and breaking the sun gear.If I'm wrong then can someone tell me what is breaking the sun gear on roll back.
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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by Alan B » Apr 13, 2018 9:45 am

In a retro-direct gearbox there are two one-way clutches, and the motor turns both gearsets, but the direction engages only one of them due to the one way clutches. This is fine until you drive the output backwards. This causes the two gearsets to attempt to turn the motor both directions at the same time, and the clutches both engage at once. The Xiongda solves this issue by making one of the two clutches release in this condition. It is not easy to accomplish. Perhaps leaving out some springs helps this. In any case it is best NEVER to rotate the wheel backwards. That avoids the issue.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by craiggor » Apr 13, 2018 11:28 am

Makes me smile when people say don't push your bike backwards. I'm getting better at lifting the bike when moving it backwards after replacing the sun gear. Non Xiongda owners must laugh every time they roll their bike backwards "there goes another Xiongda motor ! " I stretched my single spring when the motor was open I thought this helped but over a thousand miles later and I think it needs stretching again. In Luna's video on you tube they show their trike rolling backwards a short distance a few times. Have they solved the locking problem on their version ? I still love this motor. What else is out there that can get me up hills using little battery power at the same price point ?

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by Alan B » Apr 13, 2018 1:30 pm

The Xiongda motor is designed to release one of the clutches when backing up. How well this works seems to depend which gear you were in before removing power. When one clutch releases the motor spins when backing up and there is only a little stress on the gears. So it is not always a problem. When it works properly, rolling back is harmless. The problem occurs when it doesn't release, and all the force goes to the gear teeth. Since they are not spinning the force is focussed on a couple of teeth.

So this is why people say don't roll backwards. It is not guaranteed to be a problem, it is only a problem when the clutch doesn't release. I don't know how often that happens.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by snorkelgnu » Apr 14, 2018 10:52 am

What's the best way to contact Xiongda to make a purchase? I contacted them 3 days ago via Alibaba and have not received a response.

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Re: 2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

Post by Alan B » Apr 14, 2018 1:11 pm

snorkelgnu wrote:
Apr 14, 2018 10:52 am
What's the best way to contact Xiongda to make a purchase? I contacted them 3 days ago via Alibaba and have not received a response.
Welcome to ES. Looks like we are in the same area. I got mine from Luna, but others here will be able to help answer your question, or you can go back through this thread and see how they contacted the factory directly.

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