Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by Rutiger » Jun 11 2014 9:59pm

Samd wrote:I also have some flat 7mm laser cut torque plates if you need a few posted over. Might need some grinding to suit but gives you a lot of meat to work with. A geared hub generates a lot of snatching torque from standstill. Be careful.
Hey, do you have any pics? I still need some for my bike, but it is proving difficult to find something suitable.

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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by Samd » Jun 11 2014 11:28pm

Sure I'll grab a couple of photos tonight. I can also help with custom lasercut ones. I usually work with a customer's photos, scale the 51mm between disc mounts and make a 3d printed plate as a check before sending the file to the laser cutters.

I'll post up a pic or two in a few hours...
http://ballaratebikes.com/

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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by Raged » Jul 07 2014 7:17am

It's been a few weeks... got back from my holiday in Europe without being robbed (trust be it's a good thing =) but the queues in Paris is balls...

I've finished my build with a centre frame made out of sheet metal (cheap galvanised steel). it measures 13.5cm wide so still room to pedal (although my feet sit on the middle/edge of the pedal until I get used to it).

Here's some build pics :
Bought an Irwin sheet metal nibbler (cuts sheet metal for $100)
Image

I bought a sheet metal bender ($80) to do it properly :
Image

Did some frame templates out of cardboard.
Image

lid design (my design isn't that complex)
Image

test fit 1 :
I can fit another 2x 5800mAh lipo in there (waiting for stuff to be delivered sucks =/ )

Image

Test ride to work today
Image

On the way home I decided to take a snap in the local park :
Image

I used some automotive rubber hose cut up to protect the frame. Then some hose clamps through some slits in the metal to clamp it down. 2 at the bottom to hold it down and 1 at the top near the back to stop sideways movement. I've burned through about 150 cable ties, 100m roll of duct tape and about 5 Litres of good whiskey.

So far so good. I've got way too many cables to jam into the triangle at the moment (should make it fit if I shorten the cables) but balance cables are everywhere... it's a frocking mess. So I've left the controller in a bum bag under the seat. Waiting on a large 21cm wedge saddle bag to make it all fit nice (Ebay + Hong Kong == whenever it arrives, it arrives... But hey... It's cheap ).

The ride difference between having the weight on a rear rack/pannier compared to in the centre frame is like night and day. Heaps more manoeuvrable and less bumpy (probably since I have a hard tail). Its also reduced the tendency to lift the front wheel (since weight is now more centred) but still bunny hops a bit if you punch the throttle from stand still. If you have your weight on a rear rack, make the change to centre triangle. You won't regret it.

When the 2 extra batteries come in I'll try to fit the controller and all connectors into the triangle, but so far it's good enough to get to work and back.

Thanks for all the help guys, it's been a great experience and heaps of fun (except the being doored part) =)
Focus Black Forest 29er - MAC10T 14S Lipo - 50km/h, 50km range. (dead)http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 91&start=0
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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by Raged » Jul 12 2014 8:26pm

Update 2014-07-13 : Nearly complete (as in how I want it)!

Final specifications :
Bike : Focus Black Forest 7.0 29er hardtail from bikes.com.au - Strong MTB frame, Medium size gap in frame triangle, Hydraulic disc brakes, 29er wheels.
Motor and wheel : MAC 10T on Alex Rim 29er with Disc brake from em3ev
Controller : 12 FET IRFB3077. handle up to max 60V and 40A. (Typically used for 48V). 2KW setup... from em3ev
Battery BMS : 14S 40A BMS from em3ev.
Charger : 14S charger from em3ev. Charging the pack via BMS is so simple... Just plug in 1 connector and go. I don't know how you guys do separate charging...
Battery : 6 x Zippy Compact 7S 5800mAH 25C. Wired as 14S3P (58V fully charged). Yes thats 17400 mAh fully charged.



The Extra two Zippy Compact 7S 5800mAh batteries came in and fit in the in frame box nicely :
Image

Took the time to clean up the rubber protection hose pads by cutting them to only where the hose clamps are and then wrapping them in white electrical tape. Looks a lot cleaner :
Image
Image
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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by auraslip » Jul 19 2014 1:48pm

Very slick!
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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by Raged » Jul 19 2014 1:53pm

Thanks mate...

I forget to put up pics of the controller in the saddle bag... $9 ebay special... Its a large bag so it fits the 12FET with room to spare =)

Image


Image
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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by Raged » Jul 26 2014 2:43pm

Update on the bike. Ran my first long distance trip and the 17400mAh batteries stopped at the 49km mark with a lot of start stop riding through traffic (peak hour) and a lot of long hills... Management is set to max, so its always pulling 40A. Everything worked fine on the trip but an "after trip checkup" showed the nuts holding the axle on getting a bit loose. Gonna put some thread locker on there and do it up again to see if it stops the nuts from vibrating off. Currently have over 300km on the bike so far. The Zippy compact lipo have been holding up well. I'm assuming the BMS is balancing it all good, but I'll do a teardown and check the balance at the 1000km mark.
Focus Black Forest 29er - MAC10T 14S Lipo - 50km/h, 50km range. (dead)http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 91&start=0
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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by biohazardman » Jul 26 2014 3:59pm

Very nice build you have done. On my first build I put my controller in a metal box and had no problems with it overheating with the 25A max I ran through it. Might be good to check yours after a good hill to see if it needs mounted somewhere with some kind of airflow. Someone on the forum sells Nordlock washers for your rear axle that may help in keeping them tight. Mine have managed to get loose three times in 10K miles even with them but the torque arm, saved my dropouts from damage. Watch out for the doors for sure they can be deadly.
Build it like your life depends on it. Cuz it does.
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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by Raged » Jul 26 2014 8:51pm

Yeah I checked the controller after the last stretch of 17km through hills and it was just warm to the touch. Even with no airflow and in a saddle bag. That said, it was probably 5 degC outside while I was riding... The 12 FET 3077 seems to be over engineered/specced for what I'm using it for. Highly recommended if you're not going to go over 14S.
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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by Raged » Jul 29 2014 9:02pm

Man... talk about continual work in progress =) So I've been running without a bike computer and decided to order a wireless unit from ebay for AUD$7.15 ... From China/Hong Kong, so its anyones guess on when it will arrive here. So being the impatient bastard I am, I've torn apart my car phone holder mount and bolted it onto a spare lock mounting mechanism I had lying around to have mobile tracking/maps while riding. The phone holder was $7-8, so no biggie if I frock it up.

This is what I ended up with :
Image

With my Galaxy S5 mounted in there (Galaxy S5 is waterproof) :
Image


First thing I do the next day is obviously map my ride / top speed / average speed. It turns out all my calculations on top speed with a 29er/700c wheel with the MAC10T was based on 48V operating voltage (no real measurement until today). With 14S, I'm running 58V hot off charger or 57V on commute charge. This pips the MAC10T to about 50km/h with the larger diameter wheel. FREE BONUS SPEED THAT I DIDNT KNOW ABOUT!!!! WHEEEE!!!!

My ride to work in 8am traffic. (gotta slow down closer to CBD as traffic goes everywhere) :
Image

So to anyone who is wondering. YES! A MAC10T on a 29er will do 50km/h on a 14S battery Pack. And when choosing battery size, every 5800mAH = 15km (mix of hills and flats).
Focus Black Forest 29er - MAC10T 14S Lipo - 50km/h, 50km range. (dead)http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 91&start=0
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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by Raged » Aug 10 2014 9:08am

First failure! And it's not the motor or batteries... It seems the stock pedals cant handle 90kg pounding on it, so it finally 'cracked' it!... right down the middle =( Should be illegal to sell pedals that are so crap!

Image

Having a chat to my other MTB mates, they highly recommend the Giant Brand MTB Core pedal (large for fat feet people like me) and the pins provide amazing grip for the price. You can get these at any Giant store for between AUD$40 and AUD$50. Quick swap over... and OMG... The grip they provide is like night and day compared to the pedals that came with the bike!

Image

The 9 speed freewheel came in and it dialed into the rear derailer pretty perfectly on the MAC motor. I'm not sure why everyone recommends the 7speed? There isnt an 'abundance' of room, but nothing rubs on the frame or anything?

Additionally, I did a weeks worth of testing to make sure the speed readings from mapmyride were consistent. My minimum top speed is never below 50km/h and my max is 55km/h which is hindered by my fear of crashing. It's probably the MTB geometry, but the bike feels a bit wobbly at that speed... I need a longer wheelbase for more stability I think...
Focus Black Forest 29er - MAC10T 14S Lipo - 50km/h, 50km range. (dead)http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 91&start=0
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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by auraslip » Aug 10 2014 4:12pm

Should be illegal to sell pedals that are so crap!
Oh man I agree. It's very dangerous.
It's probably the MTB geometry, but the bike feels a bit wobbly at that speed... I need a longer wheelbase for more stability I think...
I've struggled with this and it's a pain to get rid of. Two wheel vehicle handling is tricky. It might not be as simple as a longer wheel base. It could be, as in my case, that the fork is too long. Or the fork could be too short. I don't know, I'm not an expert.
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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by Raged » Aug 10 2014 6:53pm

Could it be the suspension fork playing funny buggers at speed? I'll lock it out on the way home tonight to see how much difference it makes (To be honest, I'm sort of getting used to the cushy ride of a bike with suspension... ) Our roads are good, but some council retard decided it would be a good place to put the bike lanes where all the sewerage / man hole covers are, so it's bumpy as fvck.

Option 2 is install a MAC10T on a road bike frame...
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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by Samd » Aug 10 2014 6:57pm

It's coming along.

Headstem angle is key.
http://ballaratebikes.com/

ImageImageImage
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing that a 165mm rear shock can't deliver 220mm of rear swingarm travel." - Oprah Winfrey.

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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by Raged » Aug 11 2014 12:09am

Samd wrote:It's coming along.

Headstem angle is key.

Reading a bit about bike geometry and came across this gem :

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2011/02/the-g ... -handling/

I'll lock out the forks tonight then try to lower the stem a bit (mine's set too high anyway) to increase stability to see how it goes

Image
Focus Black Forest 29er - MAC10T 14S Lipo - 50km/h, 50km range. (dead)http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 91&start=0
Cube Reaction 29er Cyclocross BBS02 http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=70549

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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by Raged » Aug 11 2014 7:34am

MAC 10T with the 9 speed freewheel fits without modifications and changes gear fine :

http://youtu.be/Bmp_sIC1c9U

Focus Black Forest 29er - MAC10T 14S Lipo - 50km/h, 50km range. (dead)http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 91&start=0
Cube Reaction 29er Cyclocross BBS02 http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=70549

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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by Raged » Aug 17 2014 12:54pm

Adjusted my Samsung Galaxy phone mount to take video... Bike light is in the way on the left, but lights are important... and I couldn't be assed moving it. You can get a sense of speed and the versatility of a 29er to roll over stuff like an MTB as well as have the wheel diameter to punch speed like a 700c wheel with the added benefits of suspension on the roads.

This is the MAC 10T on full charge (14S lipo) riding around Murumbeena on a typical Melbourne day (overcast and heaps of wind).

Focus Black Forest 29er - MAC10T 14S Lipo - 50km/h, 50km range. (dead)http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 91&start=0
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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by Raged » Aug 31 2014 2:06am

Update... locking the front forks to rigid gained me almost 3km/h... and heaps better handling. Ride is rough as guts though =( Im' too used to suspension now =(

Also, about 2000 km now and ive burned though the stock brake pads, I dont think cycle brakes are designed to stop from 50+km/h consistantly. any recommendations for ebike style pads? I had to get a set of shimano pads to tide me over and would like a longer lasting set for the next kit.
Focus Black Forest 29er - MAC10T 14S Lipo - 50km/h, 50km range. (dead)http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 91&start=0
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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by Raged » Sep 09 2014 7:32pm

Some more parts came in!!! Ebay $14.86 delivered cree XML-T6 headlight with 2 18650 batteries (probably fake 1000mAh... but there's 2 of them!) and charger.

First off, lets just say it's probably about 800-1000 lumens which is VERY bright but not retina burning 2000 lumens.

I purchased this as I was using a XML-T6 torch mounted to the handlebar previously. As it's angled down, changing batteries every day was a pain and a half. I needed a simpler solution to charge my lights when I charge my bike.

Image

I took off the headband so all you have left is the lighting kit. Then used some spare mounting brackets from the various spare parts drawer...
Image

And mounted it :
Image
Image
Image

Battery pack holder cable tied down :
Image

The headlight just screws out with 1 phillips head screwdriver and mounts onto the handlebar mount pretty much perfectly with an additional small washer which I luckily had on hand (computer case tab).

The light has 3 modes. One press is high beam, 2nd press is low beam and 3rd press is flash.

Additionally, the add says its waterproof. It's not. There's a big gaping hole on the bottom where the wire comes out that isnt sealed. Some silicone should fix that up pretty easily though.

The charger that comes with it has an extremely short cable which I will probably lengthen when I get around to it. But now I can charge my bike and lights at the same time.
Focus Black Forest 29er - MAC10T 14S Lipo - 50km/h, 50km range. (dead)http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 91&start=0
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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by Samd » Sep 10 2014 6:19am

Hey I don't think I ever posted the dropout pics, let me know if still needed.

Great to see you're still having fun.
http://ballaratebikes.com/

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"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing that a 165mm rear shock can't deliver 220mm of rear swingarm travel." - Oprah Winfrey.

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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by Raged » Sep 10 2014 6:30am

I ended up getting some grin tech v4 torque arms which seem to be doing a good job of locking the motor in place. Thanks anyway mate =)

The last thing I'm after is a bluetooth data reader to display all the variables to a phone. I dont have a CA (honestly dont think I need it as I'm happy with the setup). I want something that can plug directly into the CA v3 plug (plus temp sensor).

Then it's tires and brake pads. Burned the stock pads pretty fast and my Big Apple on the rear is wearing out at an unexpected rate (about 3000km and I'm at the treadline)... The stock hydraulic Tektro HDC 300 brake units are are fine though (locks up wheels with good modulation). That said, I'm not sure they're designed to go at these speeds constantly.
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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by Raged » Feb 05 2015 7:53am

Thought I'd update this as I go... Had my 2nd failure today. The dnp epoch 9 speed freewheel has totally given up on gear 7 and sometimes works on gear 8 and 9 on the rear... =(. Distance so far is about 5000km on the ebike... combo of commuting and some single trails. Piece of shit DNP must be made of cheap cheese or something =(. I've never in my life smashed a cassette this bad.

To top it off, I can't get the dammn thing off (yes I have the remover tool).

Anyone got suggestions on a better 9 speed screw on freewheel with 11t high gear?
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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by nutnspecial » Mar 04 2015 3:31am

Hey bro, great job on the build and customizations. I recognized alot of the 'early responders' and they really were helpful. Lot for me to consider for sure.

I wondered how you filmed the hillclimb vid- that would be cool to add a link to. Seems like alot of people mount the camera to their chest. Anyway, great build and thanks for all the info and real life experience. That's definitely alot of km's too! If you search klein mantra you should see the start to mine.

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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by Raged » Mar 04 2015 5:11am

Hey mate!

Yeah this hill climb vid - 12% :



It's just my samsung Galaxy S5 on the handlebar mount pictured before.
Image
I just rotate it so the camera points above the handlebars.

It works ok for what it is, it's just a bit bouncy as it's mounted directly to the bike. When you mount it on your body, your legs act as an extra level of suspension so videos are smoother.

Heres a video I took on the way home last year... as you can see... its a bit bouncy.


Image

I'll update this thread with the changes in a tick.
Last edited by Raged on Mar 04 2015 5:38am, edited 1 time in total.
Focus Black Forest 29er - MAC10T 14S Lipo - 50km/h, 50km range. (dead)http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 91&start=0
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Re: Raged Focus Black Forest 29er MAC 10T 40A Build log!

Post by Raged » Mar 04 2015 5:33am

Updates :

Evolution of my battery box. The previous setup was ok, but I just wasn't riding as comfortable as my fat legs were rubbing on the battery box. I had to redesign to make it thinner.

Solution was to use the bottle battery mounts and instead of double stacking the batteries sideways, I'd just have 1 stack organised tighter and higher. I'd have a reduced 11600mAh of juice (14S2P instead of 14S3P), but it wouldn't make a difference to my commute anyway.

Ended up with this :
Image

Image

The metal is a piece of steel wall peer. $13 for 3m...
You can pick it up at the local hardware store :
http://www.bunnings.com.au/steel-track- ... t_p1090596
Image



Use of rubber hose to space the battery box out from the frame so I can still adjust front derailleur if I needed to... then white duct tape to blend it in and a hose clamp to hold it in place.
Image

1 stack of batteries greatly reduce the width of the battery pack
Image

7cm wide. I can pedal like normal and there is no knee rubbing!
Image
Focus Black Forest 29er - MAC10T 14S Lipo - 50km/h, 50km range. (dead)http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 91&start=0
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