Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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gua_rana   10 mW

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Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by gua_rana » Jun 17 2014 12:56am

Helsingin Sanomat wrote:"Yritämme edistää sähköavusteista pyöräilyä ja kampanjoida sen puolesta. Sähköavusteisten pyörien sallittu moottoriteho nousee 250 watista 1 000 wattiin vuoden vaihteessa" kertoo yli-insinööri Maria Rautavirta liikenne- ja viestintäministeriöstä.
Translated:
"We are trying to encourage electric bicycling and trying to advertise it. The allowed motor power for pedelecs is going to increase from 250 watts to 1000 watts in the beginning of the next year", says Chief Engineer Maria Rautavirta from Ministry of Transport and Communications.

They're changing the laws in good direction for once. Still they are talking nothing about removing the idiotic requirement for pedal sensor or the 25 kph speed limit.

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izeman   10 GW

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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by izeman » Jun 17 2014 4:54am

in austria we have 600w limit and no pas. pas is ridicolous.
but this 25km/h limit is not that bad. i sold several ebikes (mainly converted customer owned city bikes).
my customers were mainly elder people that wanted to regain mobility and even those 600w and 25km/h was too much for them. imagine a lot of old ppl rushing through the crowded city with eg 40km/h and maybe poor maintained bikes and poor brakes and no regular service?
personally i don't care much about this limit. maybe because my bikes are used offroad most of the time.
you must think of the majority of ppl riding those bikes. and i'm glad the limit is as is. ;)

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zener   1 kW

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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by zener » Jun 17 2014 6:03am

They should make a 2nd ebike category for 40km/h with yearly inspection of the ebike and a small driverlicens for it (cheap and easy).
But no license plate or bicycle path ban.
Dream on! :mrgreen:

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izeman   10 GW

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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by izeman » Jun 17 2014 7:51am

zener wrote:They should make a 2nd ebike category for 40km/h with yearly inspection of the ebike and a small driverlicens for it (cheap and easy).
But no license plate or bicycle path ban.
Dream on! :mrgreen:
and no full face helmet. i'd like to wear a bike helmet - even though it is more dangerous.
a car/motorbike license would be sufficient anyway or a moped license (50km/h and 15 years age)

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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by Eskimo » Jun 17 2014 8:35am

I am bit sceptical against licences because when i was young during the eighties no licence was required to ride a moped. And we did fine.
Now to require licence to ride an E-bike sounds a bit....you know. Maybe i am just getting old.
E-Bikes should be cheap, affordable to most people. That"s one of their key strengths.
With all these laws there is a danger that E-bikes become a kind of elitist toy. If they start to require that all bikes are factory-made it basically means that a decent bike will cost 5000 euros. Like now.
That"s way too much against mopeds, even against motorcycles. E-bike should not be more expensive than a moped. You can buy decent gas-scooters now with a grand.
This new law sounds good though. It has caused quite an uproar here. A game changer, at least mentally, attitude-wise. Mamils are confused, i bet they do not feel happy about this.
They are so competition-minded that they think if it is faster or stronger than them, it is bad.
It is a good change, but i am bit cautious if it brings some new strong requirements with it.
Age limit would be good, i agree. PAS is acceptable to the certain point, as an option at least. 25 km/h-limit is a joke. It just creates bad blood between E-bikers and other cyclists.
This "you are breaking the law if you can overtake me!"-situation right now is just no good. It"s mad.
Those old grannies can buy a slower bike, they will be available still i think. Now they drive cars.
So i will basically be legal next year! (at least bit more legal)
The glamour is gone! :mrgreen:
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zener   1 kW

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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by zener » Jun 17 2014 9:08am

izeman wrote: a car/motorbike license would be sufficient anyway or a moped license (50km/h and 15 years age)
No its not sufficient you have way other rules and dangers to watch out for than driving on the (car)street. This have to be teached.
This reques a ( (lycra) fast electrick bicycle ) driverlicens wich can go revoked if u drive reckless.

Keep the 25km/h with PAS option (If it would be required to have it installed but not to used it would be ok.)
Make aditonal 40km/h 1000w with PAS option. (requirement is fast-electrick-bicycle-driverlicens and yearly safety (fast&cheap) check)

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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by veloman » Jun 18 2014 12:07am

zener wrote:They should make a 2nd ebike category for 40km/h with yearly inspection of the ebike and a small driverlicens for it (cheap and easy).
But no license plate or bicycle path ban.
This.

15mph is not transportation.
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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by liveforphysics » Jun 18 2014 2:35am

izeman wrote: Imagine a lot of old ppl rushing through the crowded city with eg 40km/h and maybe poor maintained bikes and poor brakes and no regular service?
In my country we put them in poorly maintained 3,000-6,000lbs steel boxes that travel at a few multiples of that speed. I would so much prefer things that cause bruising or scrapes when they collide rather than death and dismemberment being an all too common result from dealing with the sheer energy involved in rapid moving heavy objects being around flesh.
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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by izeman » Jun 18 2014 2:41am

veloman wrote:...15mph is not transportation.
what else? totally depends on where you live. come visit those crowded european capitals and you have an average speed with your car of 15mph. you can easily beat that with a 15mph ebike as there are bike lanes everywhere and here in vienna you are allowed to enter a one-way street in the wrong direction (a REALLY stupid idea if you ask me ...) which let's you take the shortest router possible. you are allowed to use streets closed for traffic as well.
so having a bike that is silent and doesn't make you sweat that is even faster than a car, what else would you call it but transportation.
if i think of rural environment thinks change of course. if i have to drive 1.5h by car to go to work i'd like to have a fast transportation. but on the other way: how would it help if my bike was allowed 40km/h (25mph) instead of 25km/h (15mph) if i have to go 100km (70mi)???

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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by izeman » Jun 18 2014 2:49am

liveforphysics wrote:
izeman wrote: Imagine a lot of old ppl rushing through the crowded city with eg 40km/h and maybe poor maintained bikes and poor brakes and no regular service?
In my country we put them in poorly maintained 3,000-6,000lbs steel boxes that travel at a few multiples of that speed. I would so much prefer things that cause bruising or scrapes when they collide rather than death and dismemberment being an all too common result from dealing with the sheer energy involved in rapid moving heavy objects being around flesh.
i see a strong tendency of philosophizing in your posts lately, taking thoughts to a higher/esoteric level :) you surely are right, and i agree that the waste of energy that's cause by moving some tons of metal and plastic just to move a 100kg of human being is ridiculous. and i guess that we start to live a change in this philosophy, even though i still use my bmw more often than my bike. just because it's 17min drive compared to 1h ride one way to go to work. and as a sales man i have to wear a suite and a fresh shirt, so biking is still recreation or going shopping or for some ice cream or similar.

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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by sven_nilsson » Jun 18 2014 5:23pm

I'm really happy to hear that Finland is doing something good. Maybe they realize that e-bike has the potential to solve many of the urban transport and pollution related problems? I'm guessing 90% of all people live close enough to work to use an e-bike instead of car or public transport.

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zener   1 kW

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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by zener » Jun 18 2014 6:09pm

Finnland have my full respect for setting this statement against the law from Brussel.
They would be the first who set an own national standart this gives all other people in other EU coutrys hope for car free citys for a better live quality.
Maybe offtopic but Finnland is rank 2 in kurruption index.

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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by izeman » Jun 19 2014 3:57am

no they are not the first. as i said austria has it's own rules as well. other countries may have their own laws as well.
we are allowed 600w and no pas needed.

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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by zener » Jun 19 2014 4:31am

izeman wrote:no they are not the first. as i said austria has it's own rules as well. other countries may have their own laws as well.
we are allowed 600w and no pas needed.
But as far as i know it was from the beginning as they invented the pedelec in Brussel that Ausrtia had this exception wher no one knows why and how they got it.
Last edited by zener on Jun 20 2014 11:05am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by izeman » Jun 19 2014 8:13am

zener wrote:
izeman wrote:no they are not the first. as i said austria has it's own rules as well. other countries may have their own laws as well.
we are allowed 600w and no pas needed.
But as far as i know it was from the beginning as they invented the pedelec in Brussel that Austria had this exception wher no one kknows why and how they got it.
and we don't ask ;) i'm sure they will adopt sooner or later :(

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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by sven_nilsson » Jun 20 2014 5:31am

Relating to this other thread about aerodynamics... as you may know the world record for human powered vehicle is something like 130kmh.

1000W has the potential to get you to very high speeds, but it will be an expensive custom build since you need some very streamlined and lightweight bodywork.

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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by Gab » Jun 20 2014 7:44am

wow finally a country increasing the power limit ! hopefully other countries do the same !

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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by Eskimo » Jun 20 2014 8:29am

Gab wrote:wow finally a country increasing the power limit ! hopefully other countries do the same !
Small countries are like villages, agile and stubborn. That"s why they still exist. We have our mid-summer party day right now, day is longest right now, twenty-four hour sun.
Except it rains like hell and i am slightly drunk :wink: Friends invited me to barbeque but this rain is bit too much.
Nothing can stop the E-revolution, but we shure will have our fine share of it"s curves and bends. But it will happen.
E-bike is a greatest form of local transport ever invented. I am planning my next long trip. Just received a new pedal sensor for it.
I will have a throttle and PAS. Both can override each other, more comfort and reliability. I will post pics next month when it"s over.
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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by gogo » Jun 20 2014 9:27am

sven_nilsson wrote:Relating to this other thread about aerodynamics... as you may know the world record for human powered vehicle is something like 130kmh.

1000W has the potential to get you to very high speeds, but it will be an expensive custom build since you need some very streamlined and lightweight bodywork.
Weight only hurts acceleration, not top speed.
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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by sven_nilsson » Jun 20 2014 10:39am

gogo wrote:Weight only hurts acceleration, not top speed.
on flat ground, and assuming that the higher weight does not increase friction of the wheels, yes

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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by zener » Jun 20 2014 11:03am

sven_nilsson wrote:
gogo wrote:Weight only hurts acceleration, not top speed.
on flat ground, and assuming that the higher weight does not increase friction of the wheels, yes
And the brake 'pads'.

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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by liveforphysics » Jun 20 2014 12:35pm

izeman wrote: even though i still use my bmw more often than my bike. just because it's 17min drive compared to 1h ride one way to go to work.

Perhaps if you made your ebike 1kW or 5kW or whatever it took to make the commute times comparable in duration than the world would have less multi-ton deathboxes wizzing around. ;-)
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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by Kai » Jun 22 2014 2:41pm

Honestly speaking no-one cares how many watts your bike has in Finland. When this law gets passed, e-bikes could actually be more under scrutiny.
I just finished welding a battery mount today for my velomobile and it's practically ready to ride (it took only two years to get myself up to it.. :roll: )
This law benefit e-velomobiles a lot since they are very visible and allready very fast even without electricity

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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by spinningmagnets » Jun 22 2014 2:49pm

Also, last year Switzerland changed their law, and they now allows 500W without a moped license.

Martin is in Austria, and he got an S-Pedelec (moped) license for his cromotor-bike (lights, license plate, horn, insurance, etc)
http://www.electricbike.com/martin-cromotor/

This will be good for Harrison Boardtrackers, they are in Finland:

http://www.electricbike.com/harrison-e- ... m-finland/
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Re: Finland increasing e-bike power limit from 250W to 1000W

Post by ScooterMan101 » Jul 03 2014 12:33am

Great news for Finland,

Now

The rest of Europe, ( the Bike Riders ) need to do the same at least 1,000 watt motor, 48 volts or more 45-60 km per hour speed limit .
and get rid of that ... Stupid PAS !

There is a Great Looking German 650 B Mountain bike ( Kreidler ) for sale in my area , But , I am NOT buying it because it has the Bosch Mid Drive motor that I like, but it is only PAS, no twist throttle so I am not buying it !
My first conversion ... Sold

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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