new eZip motor

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wturber   100 kW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by wturber » May 30 2018 8:12pm

latecurtis wrote:
May 30 2018 6:22pm

My question is does the controller hook up to the booster then to the motor ? That would seem logical. Also is there an off or on switch ?
It probably would not need one as 48 to 54 volts is really not a huge jump in voltage. I will research these boosters now. Thanks very much for the information and looking forwards to further posts regarding this subject. Thanks.

LC out.
I'm not sure if or how you'd get this booster to work with 2000 watts. It is unclear if two would behave nicely if paralleled together.

The booster goes between the controller and the battery. So the motor control system see's the 54 volts from the booster, and not the battery. I've wired other items directly to the battery since they don't benefit from seeing the boosted voltage. Those items are the inline power meter, a 12VDC down converter for headlights and such and the booster itself.

There is no built-in cut-off switch. I use XT60 connectors that allow me to bypass the booster if I ever had a reason to. But I never do. The 36 volt batteries wouldn't run long since the controller's voltage cut-off is (I think) set to around 39 volts)
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » May 30 2018 10:29pm

The booster goes between the controller and the battery. So the motor control system see's the 54 volts from the booster
OH,

It may not be for me then. The controller could limit the output then to the motor. I believe the 60V 2,000 watt controller is about the same price as the 48V 1,800 watt controller.

The big question is if the 48V 1,800 watt controller would accept the 54V input from the booster and can the 1,800W controller put out 2,025 watts to the motor. If so then it would be a go. If not then a waste of money.

i will post the 1,800 watt controller specs. The main reason I would want the booster is to get 54V and 2,025 watts from two 6S packs in series. I already have one 6S pack and all I would need to do is build a second. Building a 60V - 18650 pack would require another solder-less kit as well as 24 more 18650 cells. over 120 bucks with shipping. Please let me know if the 48 volt controller will work.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1800W-48V-ebik ... 2731011489

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BRUSHLESS-MOTO ... Sw9gRaFKeA

https://www.ebay.com/itm/48V-2000W-Elec ... Sw-kdX0nK5

This is the first one I have seen which is 48 volts and 2,000 watts. This might work as long as it will handle 54 volts.

I see nothing under DC voltage boosters even close to that voltage range. Everything I saw was 12 to 36 volts and under 500 watts. I am looking for 48 to 54 volts.1,800 to 2,000 + watts. Does it exist ? Please let me know



Thanks.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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wturber   100 kW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by wturber » May 30 2018 11:29pm

My boost converter will output up to 90 volts. But it has a maximum 1500 watt output, and that isn't at all voltages. With my 36 volt nominal input, it is limited to about 1175 watts.

https://www.amazon.com/Wangdd22-Convert ... B01N528JFH

There is another boost converter on ebay that looks like it might actually output 1500 watts since it has a maximum 30A output current. But it about $65, is twice as heavy as the one I have and still doesn't get you to 1800 or 2000 watts.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1500W-50A-DC-B ... SwCGVX5UUj


BTW, you'll want a fairly large battery to drive a motor at close to 2000 watts. If you cut back on a beer or two here and there and stash the money away, in six months or so you might have put enough money away to begin to put a dent in the cost of a large battery system.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jun 03 2018 7:13pm

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire burns. three bikes down. big Currie disaster yesterday.

I was headed out to get groceries as I get my food stamps on the second day of each month. The tire was flat. I pumped it up and went about 3 blocks and flat again. I got it home and back up the hill without pushing it with pedal assist and the 6S - 18650 pack at full throttle. The bike the way it is now set up with the rear rack and fake saddle bags weighs a ton.

I attempted at first to replace the front wheel but it was bent and the brakes are no longer working properly. Also my feet hit against the fake saddle bags when pedaling. I had the kid cut it down but the other side was also a problem.

I paid a very strong boy about 5 feet 10 and 180 lbs to haul it back up the stairs. It was a struggle. He said he don't know how I used to do it and made it look easy. It is because I am 250 lbs and have a considerable amount of muscle but with my heart condition am not supposed to lift things over 50 lbs.

That was not the end of my disastrous day. I noticed easy street, my pride flagship 21 speed all aluminum hybrid with the super efficient freewheel gear reduction motor also had a flat on the front. Hoping it was a slow leak I had the kid pump it up and when it POPed it sounded like a gunshot and scared the crap out of all of us in the house.

I found another rim almost perfect and put it on the front of the Currie and removed the fake saddle bags and cut down the plastic piece of milk crate and got that fixed so my feet have more clearance and maintained the stealth look but could not fix the front brake which is the only one I have so the bike is out of commission for awhile ; at least until Doug shows up. Easy street is also on time out as I do not feel like uninstalling and reinstalling the front hub motor ; at least not any time soon.

The spoke never got fixed on the Schwinn either However I still managed to haul home over 100 dollars worth of groceries from the supermarket via "the heavy hauler" It is what DA referred to the 20" 800 watt hub motor that I put on the back of a 24" frame with a 24" wheel on the front. It is not my only heavy hauler either.

I still own the 20" 1,000 watt dual motor cargo bike - 2 motors front and rear each with their own 24V controller with 500 watts to each motor and 20 mph gearing. That is my real Super cargo bike. Not the Currie. It is also my backup cargo bike.

The front basket on the Currie has no room for cargo as the battery bag for the 18650 cells fills up the basket. It is much larger than needed but I ordered 24 more LG cells for a second pack and 12S operation. :D

The Heavy hauler is downstairs but absolutely NO pedal options with the front 20" hub motor on the rear ; so I worked on the purple 20" bike with the old 48V 1,000 watt motor that I had apart and fixed two or three times and did the terrible solder job on. :lol:

I uninstalled the 48V Chinese controller last night and hooked up a variable controller with the pot.... for a throttle like exactly is on the Currie. I can easily make it downtown with the 24V - 24 cell - 6S - 18650 LG battery pack and then switch to the SONA 36V pack for the return trip back home.

The only thing I need to do now is put a small rear basket on the back to haul a 20 pack of Budweiser bottles and convert it to a stealth bike like I did with the Currie. The variable controller is up front and is where my battery pouch will go. I will be working on it tonight. I need a milk crate and need to find some old luggage somewhere to cut up and use. My 24 new LG cells should be here in about a week and the cheap VRUZEND solder-less kit is already set up with balance connectors for the second 6S pack.

It was only a question of time before easy street would have been damaged. It was a disaster waiting to happen. A 250 pound drunk rider with those skinny little tires with the streets full of nasty potholes many up to 6 inches deep. Eventually I would have bent the rim making the geared hub motor useless. 20" BMX wheels and tires are superior by design than 27cc hybrid wheels and even some 26" mountain bike wheels.

The 20" purple bike will be able to do almost everything all my other bikes can do but in a small package. It even has a pedal chain and the seat is high enough for some pedal assist. I have the spare variable controller still in the box on top of a small tackle box until I build a second 6S pack. The little battery bag is perfect for what is in it and even room for some tools in a separate zip pouch on the side. Thanks




LC out.
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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wturber   100 kW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by wturber » Jun 03 2018 7:43pm

latecurtis wrote:
Jun 03 2018 7:13pm
As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire burns. three bikes down. big Currie disaster yesterday.

I was headed out to get groceries as I get my food stamps on the second day of each month. The tire was flat. I pumped it up and went about 3 blocks and flat again. I got it home and back up the hill without pushing it with pedal assist and the 6S - 18650 pack at full throttle. The bike the way it is now set up with the rear rack and fake saddle bags weighs a ton.
I'm confused. When a tire goes flat, you either repair the tube or replace the tube. I generally replace the tube with one previously repaired. I then repair the punctured tube and have it on hand as a spare. That way I don't have to wait for the patch glue to cure or risk blowing out the patch before the glue has cured.

You could skip repairing tubes and just buy them, but tube repair kits are cheaper. So I repair my tubes cuz I'm cheap ... er ... thrifty. If you are relying on a bike for transportation, you should have a number of spare tubes handy.

So I'm confused about bent rims, brakes not working, broken spokes and all the rest. If you get a flat, fix it. Simple. No need to worry about other parts and such. What am I missing? Flats should be an annoyance, not a disaster.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Jun 03 2018 8:38pm

Bent rim from riding while tire flat ! ... ?
Unwilling to incapable of understanding how to work on brakes.
Been down for months with 1 broken spoke ... never even measured for replacement.
Seems incapable of removing rear wheel without cutting pedal chain.
Replacing tube might involve hacksaw and duct tape?

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by wturber » Jun 03 2018 9:00pm

DrkAngel wrote:
Jun 03 2018 8:38pm
Bent rim from riding while tire flat ! ... ?
Unwilling to incapable of understanding how to work on brakes.
Been down for months with 1 broken spoke ... never even measured for replacement.
Seems incapable of removing rear wheel without cutting pedal chain.
Replacing tube might involve hacksaw and duct tape?

There is soo... much to not understand
My point isn't to get down on LC. Quite the opposite, I think he makes thing extra difficult on himself by not doing the simple things - such as planning ahead a bit. It doesn't have to be a disaster.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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latecurtis   1 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jun 03 2018 10:35pm

Been down for months with 1 broken spoke ... never even measured for replacement.
I have the spokes Dan sent me and Doug will fix it. He will also do the brakes on the Currie.

Also I will have some fun converting the little 20" bike to stealth.

Among my success is the fully functional 6S pack I built out of 18650 cells and will be building a second pack.

Also even with two flat tires I hauled back 100 bucks worth of groceries.
Bent rim from riding while tire flat ! ... ?
Also the wheel I put on the front of the Currie was off a different 26" bike. it was a little bent and rubbed against the brake pad.

The one on there now is straighter. All is good. Two flat tires does not stop me from riding when I have six electric bicycles. I am glad I built that many and even though I will only be riding two for awhile it is still spring time.

I will be building two huge 16S - 18650 packs. 64 cells in each with a BMS. They will be from used but tested cells all > 2,000 mAh. They will be run in parallel for 16 Ah and will work with a 60 volt controller and the 1,800 watt brush-less motor on the Haro V3. :twisted:
I will be going 40 mph this summer. :twisted: Thanks for posting.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Jun 04 2018 12:04am

Hey LC,

Just linking you to my thread.

It probably won't ever reach 200 pages by yours, but this will be my baby for the next 2 months or so :)

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=94561
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: Still on grid, but with LTO batteries and 3kw LF inverter...

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jun 04 2018 1:48am

Thanks. The battery pack you are building would work for the FX - 75-5 Motor ? I think it is 45 kilowatts.

Eventually I will want to build the East Coast Death Bike if I live long enough.

I am enjoying the stealthy look. It should not attract much attention from law enforcement. I saw a bike a few weeks back geared down with huge saddlebags on each side of a large strong rear rack and gave me the idea. As long as I pedal I should be good. Thanks Sunder for posting that.

LC out.

PS.

The SONA packs just fit in the battery bag. There is also enough space for the cash box and the old LiPos if I had to make a 10 mile round trip but will probably use that space for the heavy chain and padlock.

Don't let the little 20" bike fool you. With the old LiPo packs it will get close to 30 mph on the flat but I don't want to push the motor as it has been repaired several times. I know I can make it downtown with the new 6S LG pack as no hills to go up just down and flat. For the trip back the SONA packs will do the trick with no problem. :mrgreen:
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jun 07 2018 5:06am

As the Hub Motor Turns and the Lipo Fire Burns.


IMG_3606.JPG
Impressive results. Downtown with 24V - LG - 18650 - 6S -24 cell pack + pedal assist. Return with SONA packs 40 cell total 2 - 20 cell packs in parallel. Hills on way back were handled nicely.

6:50

pics were upon return trip home and both packs are charging.
Final inspection proves chain tightness is exactly as when mounted and not loose but perfect tension. This could be one of my most successive chain drive builds.
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Last edited by latecurtis on Jun 09 2018 5:36am, edited 1 time in total.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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wturber   100 kW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by wturber » Jun 07 2018 12:37pm

Cool. Nice to see good results.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jun 09 2018 4:36am

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. I hit a hole in the road. :lol: :lol: BMX Tough :!:

Only reason I laugh is it was not with Easy Street. It was the little 20" bike.

I will NOT be sure if I did the right thing or not ordering 24 more LG cells for close to $100 but kind of think so I guess. A genuine LG cell had protection circuit built in for prevention of over-discharge I think.

The 24V - 6S LG pack has little power. Maybe 10 mph without pedal and no hills without pedal assist. However the SONA 36V packs 40 cells in parallel goes about 25 mph and can take small hills easily. I was tempted to take Crane st. hill on the way home tonight but decided to burn a calorie or two and huff it. :lol:

I do believe I can tackle the hill but would prefer the bike I built with the dual motors which has been proven to take these type of hills.
I will require a upgrade from 36 to 12S Lithium for the front 36V 800 Watt brush unite motor. The rear 500W 24V Unire will get 36V 1 HP upgrade. I believe 30 mph will be somewhere around the gearing.

I think I have the Chinese controllers available. My thumb was reckless and got speed of 20+ mph on home stretch and hit some hole in the road and battery pack unhooked. It was a good thump. Was not as bad as pothole from hell four years ago but a good whack. I need to upgrade to a good light or two LED on front and red light on rear for legal operation.

That is my plan. I thought the chain was too loose and tore s h i t up and tightened the bolts. I thought the design was a little weak as I have several designs for chain drives but need more testing. I need to look at three designs I did and pick one for the 1,800W brushless motor.

I am only talking about rear chain drive not front. I did several of those also but with limited success.

The first custom design I created here on ES and this post was the first Currie 48V motor upgrade on the very early pages. 1,000W 48V Unite motor.

The second which was successful but not as reliable as the first is the new Currie motor recently. I used wood for a 750W gear reduction motor and the chain has come loose on several occasions. Not nearly as reliable or functional as the original Currie upgrade as I remember changing a flat and riding about 3 miles with no axel nuts with the Currie. A professional bike shop hooked up the thin #25 chain to the bolt on freewheel sprocket and the motor.

This is my latest design bolting the motor as tight to the rack underneath as possible. I was very unconvinced it would work as DA was. I just wanted to try but would not have bet a nickle on it working but it passed the pothole test.

The pothole test I created back when I hit a pothole so hard five 25 oz beers sailed up out of my front basket and two were spinning around on the ground with foam spewing out like a rabid dragon. It was most embarrassing when the three startled ladies ask me if I was ok.

The geometry which makes a 20" BMX bike work is the lower center of gravity. A larger bike would have bent the rim and possibly flipped the bike. A 20" bike can take a nice hit or 3 to 4" pothole well. five or 6" may not so. Probably end up closer to road pizza than not.

So far all my road mishaps with e bikes have been due to road conditions. Hitting a hole in pavement. Poor driving conditions and improper lighting. I will be working on this 20" bike to install lights and will do a video.

When I get the new batteries and have 12S we will see if it will go faster than the SONA packs. I hope so. I know that the 6S - 24 cell 6S LG pack is now broken in and seems to be very high capacity but unusual low in power for any 6S pack or 24V I ever used.

When I get the other 24 cells and have a 12S LG pack and 48 cells and 12S then I can test against the 10S - 40 cell SONA pack. Either way my plans are on a big 128 cell 16S pack or two 64 cell 8S packs , 8 rows of 8 with BMS. then in series. Used laptop cells all > 2,000 mAh tested.

When that finally happens I will order the 1,800W brushless motor. However I have learned what will work best from experience The rag tag sprocket is NOT the answer for > 3 horsepower. it is very limited and already failed in < 2 HP builds. The wheel warps. I need a sprocket that bolts directly to a disk brake mount. Thanks


LC out.
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jun 12 2018 4:45am

Trip downtown was great. Since I tightened the chain it rides smoother. Perfect combination 24V downtown and 36 back home.

I will be getting 24 more LG cells any day now. I will be able to build a 48 - 44V pack. However I wont need to run that much on the 20" bike with the old motor. I can run the newest 24V LG pack for about 6 trips like I did the first pack then run them in series when I need to and alternate packs for downtown trips with the 20" bike and SONA packs.

I can run the 800 watt hub motor or the Schwinn when I fix it. Maybe even an 1,800 watt brush-less motor.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Jun 13 2018 12:08am

Just a heads up, you might not be interested.

I just bought a mid-sized 3D printer. I know how you love your "Looks like a bomb" batteries built out of converted cash boxes and pressure cookers... (Or have I mixed that up?).

I also know you have a lot of time on your hands. So if you want to challenge your mind, and learn to draw 3D boxes, I'm happy to print stuff out for you that can be mailed to the US at a reasonable cost.

There are a lot of templates for 3D drawing, so for example, you can build mounts for XT90, XT60 and Anderson PPs. So you could print an empty box, with the retainers in the right area for your cells, and one face has a mount for the power connector. Or you could print a hole for a voltage meter, etc.

A bit of sanding and painting, and the battery would look professionally made.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: Still on grid, but with LTO batteries and 3kw LF inverter...

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jun 13 2018 6:06am

IMG_3621.JPG
That sounds like a great idea. Especially after fighting with the VRUZEND solder less kit for an hour or two. They make it look easy but is not. You have to start on the long end and four cells at a time and all the things only go one way. It is designed to be versitile which is ok for people who are not sure what they will build but battery builders who want a 13 - 20S pack want something the cells just slide into and zip tie down quick without fighting with it.

I put together my second 18650 pack with the other 24 LG cells I got today. All at about 3.57 volts I think. Only one at 0.2V off I think. I got it together but not without a big fight. :roll:

The fight consisted of several separate battles. First battle I assembled and stood on it with one foot and gyrated up and down several times with no good result. Upon inspection one of the rows was different in the way they interlock. I had to reassemble then carefully trace the balance wires to make absolutely positive hooked correct with no possible short. Then I repeated the one foot apply pressure deal. Testing then final stage of zip tying for each row. :roll:

It can be same size but if the plastic caps were longer the cells would be straighter and same space and much easier to assemble. It could be as simple as sliding the cells in place and pushing the top down and zip tie. It could be assembled in seconds instead of minutes and all have good connections in a few minutes instead of an hour or so if you assemble it correct the first time.

Basically it would look much better than the VRUZEND kit also but I would go just a bit larger for air flow as I noticed these cells can run hot if pushed. The outside box should be a rectangle and have dual cooling fans on each end one blowing in and the other out. It would need a separate battery pack for those. Also a thermostat so it only kicks on when needed so to make pack last longer on a small pack.

After that I would start doing triangle racks with compartment to slide cells into. Just open both sides via plastic hinges and close them to connect the cells. have two plugs come out for controller or charger. BMS and all that built in. To replace bad cells simply open the door and pull cell/cells out and replace.

I would order them if I have money no doubt. A universal triangle rack may not be easy as most frames are different. However there may be a way to design a adjustable frame from leather that straps to any frame with Velcro and be able to also attach the pack via Velcro and secure it with adjustable straps.

It would look like a luggage compartment. The pack housed in plastic but Velcro on side to attach and on viable sides, beautiful black shiny leather. Maybe a zipper compartment. The fans can also be Incorporated The fans 12V pack made with 18650 cells tucked away inside a compartment. Extra compartments on opposite side of pack for both chargers/main and fan.

It would be a lot of custom work with leather however more stealthy than a total one piece plastic triangle rack. The leather much more stealth but most places allow electric bikes so then leather and stealth not needed so can 3D print nice plastic triangle racks of any color. I however prefer leather. Either way the cells held together with 3d printed kits and box with fans on each end. Not a one piece triangle rack made entirely from 3D printed plastic.

However If you look at the Currie bottom pics. A plastic triangle battery compartment could be 3D printed and any old backpack could be used to cover it. The plastic 3D printed compartment with cooling fans perfect size for backpacks small medium and large. What I did to hide the Currie motor could be repeated with a larger pack up towards the front for better weight distribution.

Holes for the fans would need to be cut out with sharp scissors. If a front hub motor like the Schwinn the batteries could go like the bottom pics. For rear drive up toward the front of triangle. I could use a large pack for the Currie in the triangle towards the front as it is heavy in the back. Maybe a large 13S pack made with 78 used laptop cells. 6 rows of 13 cells with a BMS. :mrgreen:

Perhaps I should take up leather craft as my new hobby. You build the racks and I cover them with beautiful leather. I will have to look into that. Thanks Sunder. Now you got my brain working. I will get back with you on this. Yes I am drinking a beer. :lol:

LC out.
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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latecurtis   1 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jun 13 2018 7:06pm

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. Further Currie ezip upgrades. see bottom pic.

The Currie did not come with a disk brake on the front. But hopefully in a couple hours will have it. Doug is on the way and if it is possible will put two brakes on the front. 1 disk and a U or V brake.

I don't see a way for a brake on the back and the bike weigh around 100 pounds but with cargo about 150 to 170 as 60 or 70 pounds of cargo will easily fit. Total weight will be over 500 pounds with me on it so need plenty of stopping power especially down hills. I don't wait until I am at the bottom going 30 mph before applying them.

I use the brakes about every 50 feet or so and don't like going over 20 mph down a hill if I can't plant my feet on the ground. With two brakes I can use the V or U brake most of the way and use the disk for a complete stop at the bottom. I am only a speed demon on long stretches of flat when I can see a long way ahead of me. :lol:


I am doing research now on 3D printing. It has only been a couple years or so since I heard about it. Small ones are cheap and also I know someone looking to start a business. it is something I will need to research further. Especially gears for motors like the planetary gear reduction units used in the geared hub motors.

I looked on e bay and google for about two hours and there are few geared hub motors out there compared to direct drive. I also learned that for a 1,000 watt direct drive hub motor the weight is twice that of a 1,000 watt geared hub motor. 1/2 the weight with no drag.

1,000 watts is about as high as they go but think I saw one at 1,300 or 1,400 watts but they are expensive. The company I ordered mine from sells them for different size wheels but 500 watts is the limit on power. e bikeling is the company and units are from 150 - 170 bucks. I would love to have a 1,000 watt geared hub motor on the front and a second on the rear of the HARO V3. It would fly up almost any hill here especially with pedal assist.

If a small 3D printer could print the gears and I could print / build the planetary gear reduction systems perhaps I could order the motor and housing and construct my own geared hub motors for e bikes. Now that would be awesome and maybe ship them here in the USA.

I could get off of Social Security and have my own business making a few grand a week in profit. That would be great. Does anyone think something like that could be possible. I may also be able to sell complete bike kits with 3D constructed battery compartments but may not be able to print them with a small printer. I am scared to ask how much a medium or large printer would cost and definitely scared to ask how much a 3D printer for metal would be. :lol: Please let me know.

LC out.
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Jun 14 2018 12:24am

If the market is anything like Australia, I don't think there's any possibility of making profit from printing gears and inserting them into half finished gear motors. Things are just done too cheap in China, for small volumes to make any kind of sense in a high wage western nation.

However, their greatest strength, I think, is also their greatest weakness. To get cheap, firstly you have quality issues, and secondly, you can have any colour you want, as long as it's black (figuratively speaking).

In the first example, the Q100 goes for about $80. It's rated at 350W, but it's pretty safe to push to 700W with no mod, or 1000w with oil cooling. But even at 700W, the clutch burns out fast, and at 1000w, broken teeth in the gears are not unheard of. The next step up is the MAC. This is rated at 1000w, but can withstand higher power for short times. These are typically around $300, nearly a 4x jump in price, but I think worse, are over engineered. They're much, much bigger. The over-engineering are part of the problem. People reliably run them on 3000w. People also kill them at 2000w. It's because they're mass produced, quality is inconsistent, so to ensure low rates of failure, they under-specify it.

In the second example, there was a big thread on here years ago with a person saying that with thinner laminations, stronger magnets, tighter windings and a strengthened clutch, he was able to get MAC like power into a Q100 casing reliably. Having done this, he approached the manufacturer, who was told if he could place an minimum order size, they'd do a premium run. He wasn't able to, and the thread died.

I think there is definitely room in the market for bespoke products, whether that is upgrading cheap Chinese products, or customising a battery to fit inside a frame, or making a simple "all-in-one" plug and play device, so there's no assembly for newbies, etc.

The good thing is, people expect to pay decent money for bespoke products. Don't bother with cheap, China has that market nailed down, it's really hard to compete. You want to compete on quality or uniqueness.

By the way, a selective laser sintering machine which can sinter metals, is roughly $100k. You're welcome :P
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: Still on grid, but with LTO batteries and 3kw LF inverter...

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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latecurtis   1 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jun 14 2018 11:31am

Thanks Sunder.

It makes sense. The MAC is a geared hub motor ? I do not see geared hub motors like that on e bay. I will post what I do see but the only good deals I see on geared hub motors are the bikeling motors which I was glad to see they have them for 26" bikes. I thought they were only for 700c bikes.

With my 700c hybrid easy street I never really push it hard as am aware of plastic gears and the obvious limitations. However if I were to pedal assist up steeper hills or travel long distance where I am not sure of the grade of hill I would simply add a second motor the same to the rear wheel for all wheel drive.

I would not like a geared hub motor to be much larger simply because it would attract the attention of law enforcement. As you can see by my posts I no longer wish it to be obvious that I am running a motor on my bikes. Most of them have pedal chains on them now and hopefully Doug will be back to finish the work on my brakes.

I was also considering a 500 watt geared hub motor for the front of the Currie as It would be my main motor for flat and would only need the chain drive for up hills where I could pedal assist and run both motors at full throttle. approx. 900 watts to the rear wheel with 44V lithium and 500 watts for the geared hub on the front and also pedal assist. However am going to look at that MAC motor you mentioned now.

I was just thinking a small printer would work for solder-less kits which could be a much better option than the VRUZEND kit I ordered. It could be pre- wired with a BMS and just slide the cells in. The other weakness that China has besides a lot of cheap garbage is the SLLOOOOOOOW free shipping from China. It takes forever so don't see why any higher quality product at the same or slightly higher price could not sell here with 2 - 4 day shipping in the US.

If I got a 3D printer for small battery kits and battery compartments maybe with the cells already included or complete packs assembled I should be able to sell a lot of them and make a decent profit. The thing is I know nothing about the software. I know windows paint and photo-suite which is early 2,000 software. How would I learn how to use a 3D printer to create anything ?

I just woke up about 1/2 hour ago and met my unexpected guest. I heard a noise in my living room and did not know what it was, :lol:
I got the window wide open waiting for him to leave. Good thing I got money for Stewerts and an apple fritter as I am hungry and he could eventually become dinner. Thanks for posting.

LC out.
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jun 16 2018 4:15pm

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. second pack virgin run.

Not sure now if these LG cells are the same as the other. I went downtown last night with the new 24 - LG cells but went a different way then I usually go. I believe it was longer than the normal path. Perhaps as much as a mile but not sure.

When I got to the beer store downtown approx 2 miles from my house I switched to the SONA packs. I just tested the new 6S - 24 cell LG pack and was surprised to see the cells were all over 3.9V.

It would appear that these 24 LG cells are even higher in capacity then the first 24 cells I got from the other vendor. The other vendor I got the first 24 LG cells from did not have the same deal. His price went up.

I will not know until I make the same trip with the same bike and same amount of pedal assist. I can also make a couple of Wall-Mart trips and check the voltage. Either way I do not believe there to be too much difference if any between the cells.

I ran the first 24 cells maybe 20 miles or so since I got them and plan on doing the same for these 24 cells and then will start running them in series. They should perform well together as a 12S pack.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/72-Volt-2200-W ... SwR2RaMyvD

I am debating whether or not I should order a 72V 2,200 watt motor from e bay for 43 mph. All I would need is a third 6S pack exactly like the two I got. The only problem I have with it is the price. It is almost twice the price as the 1,800 watt brushless motor and looks heavier also.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BRUSHLESS-MOTO ... Sw9gRaFKeA

My biggest question is would the 1,800 watt motor hold up to 72V and 2,700 watts or 2,500 watts with the 72V brushless controller ? Either moter will work for that controller.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/72V-2500W-Elec ... SwEzFZ3t3c

https://www.ebay.com/itm/72-Volt-2200-W ... SwAaJaMyto

I really do not want to build another pack with 100 used laptop cells. Too much trouble and used cells have too many different voltages. Also I do not want to disassemble these 6S packs to make a 60V pack so not sure what to do. A third 6S pack exactly like the two I got and putting them all in series for 18S would be around 72 volts. However it brings up two more questions.

1. Will the 1,800 watt motor hold up to 72 volts ?

2. Will the 2,200 watt controller protect the 1,800W motor from too much power and failure as 1,800/48 = 37.5 * 72 = 2,700 watts. That seems like a little too much for the 1,800 watt 48V motor.

3. If any of you wanted to build a 40+ mph ride which way would you go ?

I am now leaning toward the 2,200 watt motor and controller as the motor is gear reduction which will allow me to run a smaller sprocket or perhaps a freewheel with no sprocket but for pedal assist will need to order another $120 Currie wheel. The gear reduction may be too much for a sprocket which bolts to a disk brake mount.

I will calculate the sprocket size now for the 2,200 watt brushless beast. :lol:

Ok. What the HELL happened to sprocket calculater on page 71 ?


Please let me know. Thanks.


LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Jun 17 2018 7:37pm

Quick answers, since I'm a little flat out at the moment:

1. The only way to figure it out, is to do some calculations. Figure out the no-load speed of the motor. This should be easy from the motor RPM, gearing, etc.

Now, go to a site like this: http://bikecalculator.com/ key in the power of the motor less about 20% of inefficiencies, key in your weight, the bike's weight, switch to MTB and bar ends, add in the grade of the steepest hill you will be doing, and figure out what the resulting speed is.

If the resulting speed isn't at least 80% of the no load speed, there's a very good chance you'll burn the motor out.

2. Just because a controller can pass through 2200w, doesn't mean it will. You need to put 2200w of resistance on it for the load to be present. The answer is effectively the same as question 1. If you can generate a sustained 2200w load through the bike calculator above, you will burn out a 1800w motor.

3. 40mph would be on the border between "DIY" and "Modify pre-built". If it was DIY, I would definitely be hub motors, not chain driven, down hill bike, or very solid mountain bike, good brakes, batteries low and centred on the bike. But to be honest, at those speeds, I'd rather go for a used TD4, and go 55mph, or a Vectrix and go 75mph.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: Still on grid, but with LTO batteries and 3kw LF inverter...

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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latecurtis   1 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jun 18 2018 2:53am

40 mph..png
If you click on that it will get larger and a magnify glass even larger.

The current configuration of the dual motor set up is on the left and total power for both motors together is a little over 1,000 watts.

By changing the sprockets and upgrading both controllers the rear 24V motor to a 36V controller and the front 36V motor to 48V gearing will be for approx. 40.5 mph.

The bike was tested up a steep hill and performed very well and with a speedo. achieved the 20 mph it is geared for quickly.

The only question now is will it reach 40 mph with those upgrades ? Total power would be 1,816 watts. However that is based on 36V to the rear motor. Fully charged the SONA pack is 40V. 833 W + 1,066 = 1,899 watts. That is very close to 1,900 watts and all I would need to do is change the sprockets and swap controllers. Not really an expensive upgrade at all. I already own a 36V and 48V controller. I am not sure if I will try it or not but is an option. Thanks.

LC out.
Last edited by latecurtis on Jun 18 2018 3:10am, edited 7 times in total.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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latecurtis   1 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jun 18 2018 2:53am

The other option would be the removal of the 24V - 500 watt motor from the rear and installing the 1,800 watt brush-less motor kit on the rear of the bike and of course leaving the 36V - 800 watt Unite motor on the front and upgrading the controller to 48 volts. The 56 tooth wheel sprocket will gear it for 43 mph so only have to find a rear wheel with a disk brake mount and order one 48 or 50 tooth custom sprocket to bolt up to it.

A large 48 volt pack would then be used to run both moors for a total of 2,866 watts. :twisted:

This could be accomplished with two more LG - 6S - 24 cell packs to run in parallel series for a total of 96 cells.

I would need to place the packs in a large compartment with two high speed fans. One blowing air in and the other blowing air out. I have noticed with just 6S normal operation that the 24 cells get hot at 10 to 12 mph. Therefore the cooling fans would definitely NOT be optional. Thanks and please let me know what you all think as I want to go 40+ mph this summer on the dual motor 20" bike. :twisted: :twisted:

LC out
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

DAND214   1 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Jun 18 2018 9:38pm

Well LC, it appears things haven't changed, while I was gone. Still the easiest way to hit 40 is a DD and 72v. You might get there with 16s but that depends on the motor and controller. And if you wanna do it so bad, do it on a 26" or larger bike. That way you might survive the ride to tell us about it.

Sorry I missed a couple weeks of participation. I moved to the sunshine state Florida about 3 weeks ago. Since we have bought a nice house in Port Richey. Been 3 1/2 weeks since the movers picked up the furniture. I have been using my cell phone as a hot spot to connect the computer to the internet. Have missed a lot as I don't have time, even at night. It's been go, go, go all day long. I don't have my bikes, tools ar all the rest of my bike stuff. So how has the weather been? Been mid to high 80"s with a little bit of rain. I sure miss them, (my Bikes)
Will be moving again in this or next to the new home.
Dan

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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Jun 19 2018 4:21am

Congrats on your new house. Is it this one here?

Image

(First one to turn up when I search Port Richey)

Sometimes I do wonder how and why it is that busy people like you and me still seem to get more hobby work done, than the unemployed and under employed... I remember when I used to game. 55 hour week, married, 2 kids, and when the single fork lift driver working part time said he didn't have time to organise any more, I said I'd take over.

Sometimes I figure if I was in LC's shoes, I would already have my 40mph electric bike and be building sellable quality bikes made out of upcycled bits. Other times I think maybe I get time for my hobbies because my busyness pays for them. I need a part I can't get? I don't spend two weekends trying to fabricate one, I buy a 3D printer and knock it up in a couple hours.

Who kniws. The rich man wishes he has more time, and the poor man wishes he had more money. We should all count our blessings.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: Still on grid, but with LTO batteries and 3kw LF inverter...

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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