new eZip motor

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
User avatar
latecurtis   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3334
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Aug 13 2020 4:51pm

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. Hub Motors.

Probably won't be driving the Caddy any more. The frame is shot and is leaking oil all over when the motor is running. It took 6 quarts to get it home and think the motor is damaged. :oops:

I went to storage and pulled both front hub motors and brought my best bike back . The Giant Roam and the 20" bike.

My big question now is probably a dumb question but need to ask it. Is there any way to convert a front hub motor to rear. I still have to get the rims fixed but am looking at installing both hub motors on the rear : pedal or no pedal. A lot of people with gas motors ride around not pedaling.

I prefer at least one pedal gear for pedal assist. A single speed. How could I accomplish it with a front hub motor ?

Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

User avatar
Sunder   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2997
Joined: Sep 06 2011 11:24pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Aug 13 2020 5:50pm

Man, didn't you inspect the car before you paid for it? Blown motors generally aren't worth the manual labour to repair, even if you do it yourself. The rebuild kit can often cost as much as a second hand working motor before you spend a minute taking anything off. If you can get a junk yard motor for dirt cheap and have some mates who can help you swap it out, that might be the only way the car is worth more than the scrap metal value.

Front to rear conversion? Unless the manufacturer used the same stator and windings for both and only changed the case, it can't be done without a lot of metal working. Fronts are usually 100mm dropouts and rears are 130mm drop outs to start off with. Then you need somewhere to mount a cassette or freewheel to if you want to pedal.

Again, cheaper to buy something made for the purpose.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 Died... Electrified Ninja in Progress!
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Warramty expired. Still not game!
eHouse: 6.2kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

User avatar
latecurtis   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3334
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Aug 13 2020 8:19pm

The whole truth and nothing but the truth is I suck at driving. I should not be on the road and I have not worked on a car since the mid 90s.

It has been about 10 years since driving. I drove the van 8 blocks back in 2016 and had a car on the road for about a week or two.

My first day driving I almost got in a wreck on the freeway cause my GPS navigator showed a left and the off ramp was on the right. I forgot that all exits on freeways are off ramps.

When I got my tires done yesterday I parked on the side of the building and the mechanic said to pull it up to the garage door. I said I suck at driving and proved it when the tires were done as the other mechanic pulled it out of the garage and went back in. I had to back up which I am horrible at doing.

I backed up enough to turn right and avoid the back of the car on my right. I did not see the jack handle sticking out because it was not much higher than my headlights. I was lucky the jack did not come out from under the car and there was nobody under the car.
The lady who owned the car freaked out and said "you hit my car" I said no It was the jack handle. The mechanic said "you hit my jack" He looked and saw there was no damage to the jack or handle and said you can go it is your car is frocked up"

five minutes before it all happened the guy at the office showed me a picture of the frame in the front a few inches from where the steering or shock or something important was and there was a big hole rotted out on the frame. On my way to storage I kept seeing the warning light saying I was low on oil. I got under the car at storage and saw the hole in the frame and something leaking. I thought it was oil. I went to a gas station and put 6 quarts in the crank case of 5 buck a quart. The oil recommended on the oil cap was 11 bucks a quart.

Today my wife's two sons came down and looked at the dip stick and is 5 quarts too much oil. I forgot what a dip stick was. I am way out of touch with motor vehicles. I haven't a clue. It most likely was power steering fluid that was leaking.

Also the tires they charged me 70 bucks for on the front have little tread and the drivers side was flat as a pancake. The two sons told me to take the car back to the garage to get my money back. I asked them do you really want me to go back to state prison ? That garage is really lucky all I hit was a jack handle. I really want to murder one of those grease monkeys. I am done with cars. Now I remember why I went 10 years without driving. It is garages. 99 out of 100 rip you off. You will have better odds taking your money to a casino or a horse race. :lol:

It is no secret I have mental health issues. Three assaults on police before age 21 was a good indication. I do not respond well with stressful situations. I have two attempted homicides and three attempted suicides on record. I was diagnosed last year with intermittent explosive disorder bi polar anxiety , severe depression and some kind of anti social syndrome. I was prescribed three different psychiatric medicines. I was scheduled for 1 on 1 therapy with a therapist once a week. It did not happen because of COVID19. Now I like people even less. In fact my mental health issues have got much worse. I think about murdering people every day.

I call Mary my wife because we been together 22 years but the main reason for the car was getting her out to the doctors and out of the house. I explained to her son Mike a few minutes ago that I can't be responsible for her health. I can call 911 if she has a serious health issue but I cant be responsible for her to go to doctors. I was supposed to have open heart surgery 3 years ago for a thoracic aortic aneurysm and a leaky heart valve. I was scared of surgery. scared to death. I also was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes by two doctors last year.

If I cant take care of my own health how can I be responsible for someone else ? I hope I got thru to them. I am willing to move closer to either of them and i do bring home groceries and household items and do laundry , dishes and house cleaning. I hope I got thru to them. Mike said he would come down tomorrow and get the car checked out. I will pay for an oil change and the auto frame welding shop will check it out to see if it is safe to drive for free but are backed up three months on welding repairs.

I bought the car from her son John and guess he never drove it up on ramps or jacked it up and looked under it. I am not paying to fix the frame if it is even possible to fix. HELL NO !!!

I am not buying more tires either. I am basically done with cars. I work on e bikes and computers. I used to build fish tanks. I play video games. I do things that I enjoy and keep me from being stressed out so I don't lose my mind. It just sucks now as the e bike shop is too far away for my batteries and both hub motors need to be fixed as the wheels are bent.

I guess my only play now is the 1,800W brushless motor on the back of the 20" kids bike. :lol:

Thanks fro posting and listening. You guys are my friends and am very glad to know you. I will post another episode of As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns very soon.

Thanks.

LC. out.
Last edited by latecurtis on Aug 13 2020 8:49pm, edited 3 times in total.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

User avatar
Sunder   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2997
Joined: Sep 06 2011 11:24pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Aug 13 2020 8:32pm

Man. Keep digging yourself a hole, don't you. :/

That much overfilling at least is reasonably easy to fix. After draining to the right level, you probably want to check the plugs,and run some head cleaner through your car. There's a cheaper way to do it with water, but I hesitate to tell you, because if you do it wrong, you can hydrolock the engine, completely destroying it.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 Died... Electrified Ninja in Progress!
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Warramty expired. Still not game!
eHouse: 6.2kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

User avatar
latecurtis   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3334
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Aug 13 2020 8:56pm

yea. Hopefully Mike will fix it tomorrow. If not I will take it to the garage around the corner and pay to get an oil change. I spent 1,000 on the car , 75 for insurance and 118 for triple A towing and roadside assistance. And 75 for tires. It was my fault for the oil so will pay to change it but that is all I can do. I also spent over 700 bucks to get my storage here this month from NY. I really hope and pray we all get another stimulus check from the government.

I plan on working on installing the 1,800 watt brush less motor on the 20' bike and also plan on a large cargo bike for hauling hub motors to bike shops as well as ordering more batteries next month.

If I get the stimulus money I might sell the car for 500 or best offer and get a motor cycle frame and try and build a street legal bike with the FX - 75 - 5 motor. Do you know if it would be possible and what the low budget would be for that? Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out.
Last edited by latecurtis on Aug 13 2020 9:00pm, edited 1 time in total.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

User avatar
Sunder   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2997
Joined: Sep 06 2011 11:24pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Aug 13 2020 8:59pm

I've dedicated this weekend to getting my 47kw battery properly managed and fully waterproof :) I had it working on a bench, but without the necessary mounts and seals to make it water proof.

My job is finally giving me the time and energy to work on it again, so I hope progress is fast from here.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 Died... Electrified Ninja in Progress!
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Warramty expired. Still not game!
eHouse: 6.2kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

User avatar
Sunder   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2997
Joined: Sep 06 2011 11:24pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Aug 13 2020 9:14pm

latecurtis wrote:
Aug 13 2020 8:56pm
If I get the stimulus money I might sell the car for 500 or best offer and get a motor cycle frame and try and build a street legal bike with the FX - 75 - 5 motor. Do you know if it would be possible and what the low budget would be for that? Please let me know.
My budget was $10k AUD, so about $7K USD.
$2k on motorcycle base (Although mine was running as I knew I needed another vehicle while building this)
$1k on controller
$1k on motor
$3k on battery
$1k on BMSes and tools to fit them
$600 on chargers (Could have been less, but I wanted to charge at 2400w. Closest I could get was 1800w, otherwise I would be in the 1.5k mark)
Plenty of incidentals I haven't accounted for yet, like CNC'ing, It'll be another $1000 in engineering fees to get it street legal, so I'll probably be a bit over.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 Died... Electrified Ninja in Progress!
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Warramty expired. Still not game!
eHouse: 6.2kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

User avatar
tomjasz   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4273
Joined: Mar 29 2014 1:45pm
Location: Out riding, MN USA
Contact:

Re: new eZip motor

Post by tomjasz » Aug 14 2020 7:33am

What a soap opera.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

DAND214   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3253
Joined: Aug 10 2008 8:28pm
Location: About 1200 miles south of Chicago, in sunny/rainny Port Richey, Florida!

Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Aug 14 2020 9:16am

tomjasz wrote:
Aug 14 2020 7:33am
What a soap opera.
Isn't it great?
Have followed it from the start. If you don't like it you don't have to read it.

It just shows, some of us are better off than others and some do the best they can with what they have.

Dan

User avatar
latecurtis   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3334
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Aug 14 2020 3:35pm

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns.


My goal is to get both the 1,000W 26" hub motor to the e bike shop so it can be fixed professionally . The same thing for the 800W hub motor. I did not want to change forks on the Giant but don't think the 1,000 wat hub motor will fit on the front. I will try it now.

Thanks.

LC. out.
Attachments
IMG_0220.jpg
IMG_0220.jpg (203.88 KiB) Viewed 678 times
IMG_0221.jpg
IMG_0221.jpg (260.13 KiB) Viewed 678 times
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

User avatar
latecurtis   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3334
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Aug 15 2020 6:27pm

As the Hub motors will be turning and hopefully the LiPo Fire won't be Burning.

No, it's 233 pages of LC ignoring advice, and being proud of below par performance, because he did it "his way". If you're gonna be a part of this thread, you're gonna have to learn to live with that quick.
Well I guess there is a first time for everything. In this case my next two builds are going to be me following the advice and not doing things my way. Also looking for At par performance. Not below par performance.

I am looking to downsize and get rid of my monthly storage bill. This will mean stripping the brushed motors from bikes where the motors are mounted with wood. Then getting rid of bikes and frames I am not using.

Mary my wife has two sons. Mike and John. They both want electric bikes. The Clear Creek Schwinn can go to John as he has wanted that bike for a long time now. Mike is getting the Diamond back which is 27" I think. Not sure but think it is disk and will work with a 26" hub motor.

Since I have two front hub motors that the rim got bent I do not want to ever order another for myself or anyone else. I guess John is going to fix the front hub motor but since Mike is getting the Diamondback he wants a fresh build and I also want a fresh build for the Giant Roam I took a picture of.

Mike and John will need to order batteries and I have the 10P - 36V and well as the 8P - 36V packs so I will need two rear 26" hub motors that will run at 36 - 48V. My problem is most kits I see on e bay are 500W @36V. I dont want that. Mike is 6 feet 4 and over 200 pounds and I weigh 230 pounds. 500W just wont work especially up hills. 750W will work if the kit is rated at 1,000W @ 48V but can work with 36V and 750W.

obviously if I can get a 1,200W or 1,500W kit rated at 48V but will run at 36V that will work as a 1,500W motor at 48V = 1500 / 4 = 375. 1,500 - 375 = 1,125W @ 36V.

Basically 750W @ 36V is the minimum but if I can order a 1,200 or 1,500W kit for under 200 bucks with shipping it is definitely a go. I have been searching e bay and most kits rated for 36V are only 500W and that will not do.

I am following recommendations on this build and remember hearing that front hub motors especially over 1,000W were NOT recommended. Therefore I will build two REAR hub motors and install two torque arms on both. and properly install the controllers and 100 amp DC breakers also on both. Since I already own 36V packs I will use those until I order the LiPos that SUNDER recommended.

Mike and John can order 48V lithium ion packs. Since neither one of them even know what LiPo is they probably should NOT order them as they would need the LiPo charger and power supply so they should get 48V Lithium ion pcks.

I will post a few kits from e bay and I only need to know if they will work at 36V and be at least 750W. I would appreciate some help finding the motor. Both John and Mike are more mechanically inclined so can do their own brakes and the Giant Roam I have is in almost brand new shape so won't have to worry about brakes.

I am ordering the hard shell LiPos as I want the high discharge rate for other builds that have nothing to do with these two builds but for John and Mike.

I think someone recommended these.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/48V14Ah-Lithiu ... SwPYFfNTBW

Please let me know. Thanks.

LC. out.
Last edited by latecurtis on Aug 15 2020 7:48pm, edited 4 times in total.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

User avatar
Sunder   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2997
Joined: Sep 06 2011 11:24pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Aug 15 2020 6:40pm

latecurtis wrote:
Aug 15 2020 6:27pm
As the Hub motors will be turning and hopefully the LiPo Fire won't be Burning.
There's no earthly way of knowing
Which direction we are going
There's no knowing where we're rowing
Or which way the river's flowing
Is it raining, is it snowing
Is a hurricane a-blowing
Not a speck of light is showing
So the danger must be growing
Are the fires of Hell a-glowing
Is the grisly reaper mowing
Yes, the danger must be growing
For the rowers keep on rowing
And they're certainly not showing
Any signs that they are slowing
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 Died... Electrified Ninja in Progress!
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Warramty expired. Still not game!
eHouse: 6.2kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

User avatar
latecurtis   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3334
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Aug 15 2020 7:27pm

Please note that for John and Mike at par performance is not the same thing as for SUNDER and DA. What I mean is they both have motor vehicles that they drive daily and they probably won't be riding e bikes as much or as many miles as you guys. They might ride around a small town or camp grounds so expensive 80 amp controllers are not required to be up to par.

I also am just looking for the Giant Roam to out perform the little 500W geared e bikeling motor I have been riding exclusively over a year now. It needs pedal assist up hills and goes less than 25 mph. I am only looking for 25 to 30 mph with not as much or no pedal assist depending on the slope and length of hills. A cheap upgrade from what I currently run. NOT a professional e bike with a Phase runner 80 amp controller. It does need to be reliable but not super high performance or 40 mph. I have an 1,800W chain drive motor for that.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-Bike- ... ition=1000

It says 36 - 48V.

It should be 750W@36V right ????

http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayIS ... 0000&ver=0

Looks like the wheel needs to be built and will need a hub motor controller separate.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/48V-1500W-Thre ... 0677.m4598


OK. Will this controller work for the 1,500W hub motor ?????


https://www.ebay.com/itm/48V-36V-35A-KT ... SwuCBd8eXl

Mike is here and I told him it could cost 50 bucks to build the wheel. I will call Petes electric bikes next Tuesday when they are open. He also knows that he needs to order batteries. I saw a link for 48V lithium ion packs. I am running at 36V and ordering the LiPos that were recommended. I have both LiPo chargers here now.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

User avatar
Sunder   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2997
Joined: Sep 06 2011 11:24pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Aug 15 2020 8:23pm

When I said "below par", all I really meant was not getting what you should be capable of getting out of your equipment. So you might have bought a powerful motor, but because of poor design issues, not been able to get full performance out if it. It has nothing to do with the size or cost of what you buy.

If someone hasn't worked with LiPo before, best to get them a complete battery with BMS built in, and twice the size they need. That way, it will be very abuse proof and safe.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 Died... Electrified Ninja in Progress!
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Warramty expired. Still not game!
eHouse: 6.2kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

User avatar
latecurtis   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3334
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Aug 15 2020 8:38pm

I do not recommend LiPo for either John or Mike. They are new to e bikes. Neither of them ever even rode one. I am not going to be responsible for them burning their houses down. I told them the truth. The 48V lithium ion pack will get them about 20 miles if they do not pedal unless there are a lot of steep hills. I said that the battery could fail in 3 miles if it is a really steep hill and they do not pedal. It could also last 30 or 40 miles if they pedal a lot and mostly flat with not many hills.
download.png
download.png (381.54 KiB) Viewed 619 times
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

User avatar
latecurtis   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3334
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Aug 15 2020 9:06pm

John had his eye on the Clear Creek Schwinn for a long time and if he takes both the 26" front hub motor and the 20" 800W motor for my small bike so I don't have to lug the heavy 26" bike up and down stairs then it will help me as I have paid over 2,000 in storage going back almost two years.

I need to get rid of bikes and projects. I will be striping motors from bikes and tossing frames. I am consolidating.

I love Easy street but if I can't put wider tires on it , it has to go. I hate the skinny tires. I changed the front hub motor like three times and was flat when I got it here. Also if I hit a pot hole it will bend easily.

If it is possible to put the 26" hub motor from the 26" mountain bike I am riding now to the back of Easy Street (the 700CC hybrid) then I will. If not I will be taking the little 500W geared e bikeling hub motor off the front and have it laced into a 26" front wheel.

I did say I would never buy another front hub motor but even though I have run a rear 500W geared e bikeling rear motor over a year and is still running I think that if I have one bike with a 500W e bikeling motor on the front and rear it will be better and last longer especially up hills.

I am not sure what I am doing with the Haro V3 and the Currie but I know I need to consolidate. I do not need 6 e bikes nor do I have room for them all. I need a small 20" bike for this third floor apartment. When I move it wont matter as I am not moving upstairs again. Hopefully I will have enough room I won't need storage.

The Giant Roam is my best bike and newest with all the brakes and gears working so should be my main commuter. The Currie can be a NON daily commuter and can get the 1,800W brushless motor as it has the Currie wheel with the left drive freewheel on the left side for a bolt on sprocket. Not sure what I will do with the 750 watt gear reduction motor but spare motors are ok as do not take up lots of room like frames and wheels do.

If I strip the dual 20" chain drive motor I will have four brushed chain drive motors. The 1,000W Unite 48V , A 36V 800W , a 24V 500W and the 750W gear reduction motor. I am not getting rid of the Haro V3 so could order another Currie wheel HOWEVER the guy down stairs is on his second gas conversion bike and he has a source for 26" rear wheels with a fixed sprocket on the left side. It is like 40 to 50 bucks cheaper and think there are different wheel sizes. I will need to talk to him as I want to put one of the brushed unite motors on the Haro V3.

But for right now I need to concentrate on a new rear hub motor for the giant Roam and the 27" Dimondback I am passing to Mike.
Those are my next two builds. I have everything I need for the little 20" bike once I get the 800W 20" hub motor fixed.

I am still searching for rear hub motors. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

LC. out.

8/15/20 10:16 PM.

I just thought of something. I spent a lot of money. I really only need two e bikes until probably next spring or whenever I move.

A 20" bike with the 20" front hub motor for around town and a light 26" bike for long range. The Giant Roam is way lighter than the 26" dual suspension Mongoose (steel frame) I am currently driving. Also the stock wheels on it are both quick release.

A really cool tricked out build would be both front and rear 500W geared quick release e bikeling hub motors which would probably still be lighter than a 1,000W direct drive hub motor. :idea: :idea: If I use the Giant Roam it will be about 25 pounds lighter and if both hub motors are quick release I will just need to lock up both wheels so will only require an extra bike lock.

I will need Pete from Pete's electric bikes to look at both e bikeling controllers to make sure they are the same amps. I want to use a single thumb throttle for both motors. Let me know what you guys think of that idea.

The Giant Roam had 700c wheels on it. The rear hub e bikeling motor is 26" but Easy street is 700c. I just do not know if the rim is wide enough for a larger tire. I need to compare the 700c rim from the 700c hybrid to the Roam. I know the tires on the Roam are wider than Easy street but not as wide as the 26" dual suspension. I hope I wont have to pay to have both motors threaded to new rims. That could be the deal breaker.

Hopefully even if it is extra if I could get a 20" quick release for the 20" bike it would allow me to hang them both up like that bottom pic and both bikes would be easier to haul up and down stairs as I make more than one trip anyway for the battery packs. Since I am probably keeping a car around and own a new back pack I do not want ANY milk crate baskets on these bikes. I need to professionally mount the batteries and controllers somewhere else like a triangle rack for the giant. I could use a small wire frame basket that easilly comes on and off for the 20" bike for the lithium packs but the controller needs to be mounted to the frame and somehow both controllers should be waterproofed.

If I do that I can get rid of that big heavy dual suspension frame and will have room for an incline weight bench and a pair of dumbbells. Before COVID19 I was down to 215 and going to the WMCA three to four times a week. I am back up to 230 and suffering from diabetes again. I need that space to work out.

Ok the vey bottom pic. is the 20" turbo next bike I keep referring to. The 28T sprocket leaning on the back wheel will work perfect for the 750W gear reduction motor on the back of the Currie. It has a 20T freewheel and 11T motor sprocket. The 28T spoke sprocket is for #40 chain so will need a 15T motor sprocket I think. The 800W 20" hub motor will go back on the front and does about 20 mph I think at 36V. I will need the rear 750W motor geared for about 24 or 25 mph. I will have to use two throttles on that bike but should be great up hills. The front hub motor will have to be quick release to hang up and so I can carry it up and down the stairs.

OK. It is settled then. I will have three e bikes instead of six. The 20" Turbo and the Giant Roam both all wheel drive and around 25 mph and the Currie ezip Trailz with the 48V 1,800W brushles motor but at 60V of LiPo and 2,250W and 43 mph gearing. :twisted:

Thanks.

LC. out.
Attachments
IMG_0223.jpg
IMG_0223.jpg (212.71 KiB) Viewed 604 times
IMG_0225.jpg
IMG_0225.jpg (156.63 KiB) Viewed 602 times
IMG_0226.jpg
IMG_0226.jpg (192.18 KiB) Viewed 596 times
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

User avatar
latecurtis   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3334
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Aug 16 2020 3:23am

As The Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. :idea: :idea: :idea:

A 20" bike with the 20" front hub motor for around town and a light 26" bike for long range. The Giant Roam is way lighter than the 26" dual suspension Mongoose (steel frame) I am currently driving. Also the stock wheels on it are both quick release.
OK. That does not seem possible.

However if not possible could it be invented.

SUNDER .

You mentioned a 3D printer.

How about quick release torque arms. :lol:

If you guys manage to invent such a thing can I get in for 10% . :lol:

Thanks.

LC. out.

maybe I can earn another 10% for research for development or developmental research. :lol:

looks like a couple wing nuts for quick release torque arms. That and a couple durable connectors and we can make folding bikes obsolete. I don't like those.

Thanks. If I did not learn from you all I would not be thinking about convenience , portability and lightweight or concepts like pounds of torque per pounds of weight ratios. I also know a geared hub motor has greater power per weight ratio than direct drive. I see the value in my e bike 500W motors. The one I have been riding for 14 months here from towns to towns and about 1 year in NY is still strong. Two on a lighter bike is a worthwhile investment even if 100 bucks is spent rebuilding the wheels for the motors I already own.

I already contemplated that concept of fundamental physics over a decade ago in college. Before that in the 1980s. It was called the 1320 shuffle back then. 1320 feet is the standard quarter mile. Lighter cars with stronger motors efficiency (power to weight ratio)

With e bikes these days it is quite different story but being mighty and light is same concept. my out of shape physique wrestling a heavy e bike up three stories sucks :lol: :lol:

Better performance with lighter weight is a sure upgrade.

Top speed and insane power and torque however require a heavier steel solid framework like the Currie for a base with structural frame modifications to enable safe 40+ mph travel.
Attachments
download (7).png
download (7).png (57.62 KiB) Viewed 555 times
download (8).png
download (8).png (267.68 KiB) Viewed 547 times
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

User avatar
DrkAngel   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5367
Joined: Dec 15 2010 11:14am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Aug 16 2020 6:35am

Another thing you need to notice(?) is that "quick release" wheels run a steel skewer through the center of the hub motor.
Sooo ... you will have to drill a hole through 3/4 of the axle, without hitting the wiring, then squeezing the skewer through without damaging anything.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

User avatar
Sunder   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2997
Joined: Sep 06 2011 11:24pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Aug 16 2020 6:40am

Don't see why an easy to release torque arm wouldn't be possible, but it wouldn't be 3D printed. It'd have to be CNC'ed which is the reverse of 3D printing (Start with a solid block of metal, remove the bits you don't want). You can do sintered metal 3D printing, but even on my salary, I couldn't afford one of those (They start at 100k USD, and go up over a million easy). There are shops that will do it for you, but I am not expecting it to be cheap either.

To get a quick release torque arm going, it wouldn't be that hard - The trick would actually to have a quick release skewer that was longer than normal to accommodate the torque arm, then a restraining plate that prevents the torque arm from spinning, (I.e. prevented Y axis movement), but has nothing to prevent the torque arm moving along the Z axis - That motion is prevented by the QR skewer.

Your choice of motor however would be pretty limited. Not many have QR mechanisms, Bafang have one - and you'd still need a custom made skewer to match your increased width.

Image
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 Died... Electrified Ninja in Progress!
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Warramty expired. Still not game!
eHouse: 6.2kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

User avatar
Sunder   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2997
Joined: Sep 06 2011 11:24pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Aug 16 2020 6:45am

DrkAngel wrote:
Aug 16 2020 6:35am
Another thing you need to notice(?) is that "quick release" wheels run a steel skewer through the center of the hub motor.
Sooo ... you will have to drill a hole through 3/4 of the axle, without hitting the wiring, then squeezing the skewer through without damaging anything.
Haha :mrgreen: Looks like both of us saw the same problem... And took very different approaches to solving it. I guess if you had a drill press, very high quality bits, and a lot of experience drilling precision holes, your method could work also.

The Q100 series I've worked with basically have the axles in two parts, so you won't hit any wiring, but the tiniest error, and the skewer won't line up, and a bit more, or trying to leave yourself a bit more tolerance, and the thing would snap like a twig before the torque arm was even needed:

Image
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 Died... Electrified Ninja in Progress!
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Warramty expired. Still not game!
eHouse: 6.2kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

User avatar
DrkAngel   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5367
Joined: Dec 15 2010 11:14am
Location: Upstate-Western-Southern Tier NY. USA

Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Aug 16 2020 8:05am

Having been mentioned, multiple times, I will state that a motors watt rating is the power (watt) output, at specified voltage.
While technically the 48v 35a controller could be rated as a 1500w (48v x 35a = 1680w/90% efficiency = 1512w) 1500w output might only be attainable in the 55% efficiency part of the power curve, requiring near to 48v x 60a = 2880w/55% efficiency = ~1500w output.

Ideally you want near 200% the watt input for reasonable performance.

Motor/Controller
eZip my1018z 24v x 35a = 840w max input (450w rated output)
Bafang BBS02 48V x 20a = 960w max input (500w rated output)

Image
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - December 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

DAND214   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3253
Joined: Aug 10 2008 8:28pm
Location: About 1200 miles south of Chicago, in sunny/rainny Port Richey, Florida!

Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Aug 16 2020 1:36pm

If your gonna buy 48v 14Ah, why not go to the 20Ah battery?
A few bucks more if they are real. I was told the cells are made special for them, so they are not Brand name cells.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/EBike-Li-ion-B ... Sw4PlfNRj4

Dan

User avatar
latecurtis   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3334
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: central Ohio

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Aug 16 2020 3:21pm

If your gonna buy 48v 14Ah, why not go to the 20Ah battery?
A few bucks more if they are real. I was told the cells are made special for them, so they are not Brand name cells.
NO. I am buying LiPos in the hard shell for 60V.

They will need 36V lion packs NOT 48V.


I slept on it and decided not to order new hub motors. I have three chain drive motors I wont be using as I got a new 1,800W brushless chain drive motor.

I keep hearing how chain drives are not as good as hub motors. The thing is my first build was the Currie upgrade and was chain driven and lasted for two years. I took the motor off it to put on a 20" bike because I was sick of hauling the heavy Currie up a flight of stairs. Now I live on the third floor so am building a small 20" bike again.

John can get the 1,000W brush motor I repaired as he wont be riding much anyway and if it fails it is an easy 60 buck replacement now as those Unite 48V motors are about half what they were when I bought the one for the Currie .

Mike can get the 800W 36V motor which is also brush. It makes sense as I got controllers for those. All Mike and John will have to do is order batteries. I will build the bikes and give them to them as they help me with the car and they got my storage.

Also both Mike and John are mechanically inclined. They built go carts as kids and both work on cars. It wont be difficult for them to deal with chain drive e bikes as long as the initial design for mounting the motors is a good one. Both of them can work on brakes and pedal gears better than I can.

Also if they get a flat tire with a hub motor it is a pain in the cojones to deal with. You have to take off the torque arms and unhook the wiring. A chain drive is easier and if a chain pops off for some reason it can be fixed in five minutes with a couple of wrenches. If you bend a hub rim it has to go to an e bike shop like the two in my hall way.

So are hub motors really better than chain drives ? That depends on how you look at it. I had three flat tires in a month last summer with the rear hub motor I am driving now. The Currie with the chain drive motor is way easier to change a tire and if the chain gets loose is a 3 minute fix even on the road.

The guy down stairs name is Chad. He has his second chain driven gas conversion. He ordered a new rear 26" wheel with a cassette for pedal and a mount for a fixed bolt on sprocket for a chain drive motor.

I wont be using wood but steel. In fact John has welding equipment. He used to have a business repairing tires for big trucks on the thruway when we lived in NY. He could even help me build a Death Bike for the FX-75-5 motor.

I just need to find those rear wheels that are made for gas conversion. The 120 buck e zip replacement wheel is about double what I want to spend. Also Mikes bike is a 27" I think and most hub motors are 26". It makes perfect sense to go with a rear chain drive on both builds for them but I need to do it right. No wood or cheap mounting.

I might just put the 1,000W hub motor when I get it fixed and run it on the rear of the Giant and the 20" hub motor can go on the 20" Turbo. I need a link for those rear wheel conversion wheels. I will talk to the guy down stairs. If anyone knows of any please post them. I would rather NOT use a spoke sprocket as I have noticed that it warps the wheel and eventually causes the chain to pop off. I will keep the 750W gear reduction motor but the 1,000W and 800W Unite motors can be used to build rear chain drive e bikes for those guys. The 500W can be a separate build with #25 chain and 80T sprocket.

I still have the 80T #25 sprocket that was on the Currie. I just have to order the 89 tooth for the 27" bike with the 800W motor. Johns bike is 26" so will have the original currie gearing at 36V. Mikes bike will be 27 mph @ 800W but he has longer legs as he is 6 feet 4 so will be able to pedal better up hills. I will let him know that he has to pedal when he hears the motor straining up a hill.

Mike already has ideas on how to mount the 1,800W motor to the 20" bike if I wanted to but that motor is better suited for the Currie and the 750W gear reduction motor on the Currie is better suited for 24 mph with the 20" Turbo bike.

Thanks.

LC. out.

https://www.ebay.com/i/262560773756?chn ... iCEALw_wcB


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXKONETx3GA
Attachments
download (1).png
download (1).png (186.63 KiB) Viewed 359 times
download (2).png
download (2).png (160.3 KiB) Viewed 357 times
download (5).png
download (5).png (45.85 KiB) Viewed 352 times
download (6).png
download (6).png (27.44 KiB) Viewed 348 times
Last edited by latecurtis on Aug 16 2020 6:22pm, edited 1 time in total.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

User avatar
marty   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2392
Joined: Apr 19 2007 5:44pm
Location: Buffalo, New York USA
Contact:

Re: new eZip motor

Post by marty » Aug 16 2020 5:50pm

Balmorhea wrote:
Aug 09 2020 6:55pm
marty wrote:
Aug 09 2020 5:30pm
All my electric bikes have dead batteries.
That seems like a fixable problem.
Easier said then done.

Electric bike #1 Bionx PL350 kit. Let it sit for a winter. Battery was deader then dead. Now it's also about 12+ years old to add to my problems. On my list of things to do is Bionx battery repair. Bionx PL350 was great fun while it worked for a few years.

Electric bike #2. Crystalyte. Bought the motor and controller directly from Kenny. If I am remembering his name correctly? All the parts and pieces are scattered around my basement. Learned how to build a wheel with this project. On my list of things to do is a Crystalyte resurrection. Here is a sad story about GBP Battery Co / 48V 20Ah Li-ion

Then there was the Battery Building Competition in 2010. Sad to see that the pictures disappeared. Not a problem. They still in my computer. Project was to build a battery for a scooter. kfong from Michigan won. He got a load of used Makita batteries. I got nothing. He said they were all dead. Scooter parts are still scattered all over my basement.

The Battery Building Competition was a good lesson on how to build a battery from the good cells in used Makita power tool batteries.
marty wrote:
Jul 19 2010 9:09pm
Lets get started with some research. Look at these pictures of Doctorbass's battery building projects.
Doctorbass Photo Gallery
Thanks Doctorbass :D

Here is a Doctorbass battery building project.
Another Li-Mn Konion battery pack built !! 810Wh

Look what Ypedal did.
More Konion fun !
Sorry the "Doctorbass Photo Gallery" was in a server that got hacked. Moving a bunch of web sites to a new server is on my list of things to do.

Still got a boat load of Makita power tool batteries. Latecurtis or anyone else, you want? Shuffle up to to buffalo. Sorry no shipping.

Found the old pictures.
makita_Li-ion_18V_3.0Ah_1.5Ah_pile.jpg
makita_Li-ion_18V_3.0Ah_1.5Ah_pile.jpg (118.21 KiB) Viewed 335 times
Latest electric bicycle. Ultra Motor A2B Metro. Heavy bike, but great fun for a few years. Would ride 10 miles from my house to my shop. One day it went 8 miles and stopped. Ya know how ya feel when your car just stops and now you need a tow truck. A2B was worse. Now I have to pedal a stupid heavy bike 2 miles in stupid hot weather. Tested battery by riding around a horse track at my house. Measured milage. I live on a old horse race oval. 8 miles and bike stops. Gave the A2B bike to a girl who is having great fun riding less then 8 miles. Getting or rebuilding a new battery for her is on my list of things to do. A2B Metro - [rear rack, auxiliary, secondary, battery] Bet her $1200 is spent by now.
Wow I am #1 in Google with that search!
a2b metro auxiliary

Enough typing. I got to some the unfinished things on my list of things to do. The Chopper! from 2012. Yea will get that one going. That electric bike project is still going strong in my mind.
Image
MARTY
Volt Electric Vehicles
http://www.voltev.com

User avatar
Sunder   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2997
Joined: Sep 06 2011 11:24pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Aug 16 2020 8:26pm

latecurtis wrote:
Aug 16 2020 3:21pm
So are hub motors really better than chain drives ?
Nothing at all wrong with chain drives, and in fact the BBS02 is one of the more popular motors in this parts. However, there is a problem with badly designed chain drives. For example, let's do some maths. Lets say you want to hit 40mph - your magic number. (Well one of, depending on how hyper you are).

40mph = 64km/h
700c x 38mm wheel = 2.193m per revolution
64000m / 2.193 = 29,184 revolutions per hour, or 486rpm

Now, if you used a BBS02, with a nice 11T rear sproket, every minute 486 x 11T, or 5346 chain links pass your leg. Expressed another way, 2673 inches of chain per minute, or 222 feet, or 4.45 feet of chain per second. That's pretty fast. If it came off, no doubt it would hurt, but it wouldn't break any bones.

If you used your 80T gear above, 32 feet of chain passes by your feet every second (4.45/11*80). Think about that for a second. Think about it coming off and hitting you. Do you have chain guards? Tensioners? Do you think a standard bike chain would last long under tension at those speeds? I'm actually glad you haven't been able to get anywhere near 40mph, because your machine would be a death trap.

Have a look at a motorcycle chain. It's WAY thicker than a bike chain. The rear hub has very few teeth as well to avoid horrendously fast chain speeds, and even then, bikes must have chain guards to be legal (in Aus at least).

I'm planning to build a belt drive one day - When my travels will include the flats of Amsterdam one day, and the Alps of Switzerland the next. But while I have a commute that is at most a 9% grade, I need a bike that is rock solid reliable, and requires minimum maintenance. And for the 3 times in the last decade I've had a flat, changing the tyre was 3 minutes longer than if I had a quick release rear wheel. (Oh, alright, I'll admit one of those times I couldn't get the wheel off without a hammer, because it had been so long since a flat, the axle had siezed into the dropouts).

Every tool for its job. If you want to say your design is right for you, then it's right for you. But I don't think you'd find too many to agree.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 Died... Electrified Ninja in Progress!
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Warramty expired. Still not game!
eHouse: 6.2kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

Post Reply