new eZip motor

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Jan 17, 2018 3:03 pm

Those like me with $428 electric bill mabye look for cheapest way out
What the hell are you doing, Supplying the whole block! ?
I get upset when my bill is over 100 except in the summer.

Dan

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 17, 2018 6:32 pm

11718.png
What the hell are you doing, Supplying the whole block! ?
I get upset when my bill is over 100 except in the summer.
old house. Three bedroom lots of drafts and no new windows and lack of weatherization. I put some plastic up on front porch.

Also four or five desktop computers two flat screen TVs and five fish tanks and below zero degrees with a 75 year old woman who weigh approx. 110 pounds or so. Heat needs to be around 75 degrees.

I paid a kid $10 to clean up my e bike workshop and remove the 60 tooth from the 24" wheel. I will put it back on a 20" wheel for the exact gearing it was before when I hooked the speedo to the old 24" frame with a 24" wheel on the front and did the video with the old 44 volt LiPo packs and did 29 mph. This 24" frame is an upgrade and plan on better brakes also.

Looking at 3,108 to 3,122 lbs. Just googled it. That is the weight of my 2005 PT cruiser. Also is front wheel drive. With an independant electric motor or motors installed for the rear wheels will do the trick but will definatlly comprimize trunk space with a large DIY battery pack.

However I still have the 2005 Dodge Caravan. Neither will be on the road any time soon with my current energey bill but mabye by summertime.

I think the Caravan is front wheel drive also. :idea:

https://www.wired.com/2012/08/hybrid-conversion/

200 foot pounds of torque per wheel. Two electric wheel motors putting out the same torque as a big block V8 gas engine.

Kind of hard to believe but hope they pull it off. Please everyone read it and let me know what you all think. I know it will not be cheap but please say something positive. I am well aware of all the negative $$$ and mechanical aspects. Thanks.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Jan 17, 2018 11:42 pm

I had leaky windows, till I filmed them over. Saves losrs of money.
Use 3M or Duck stuff. Walmart has Dick stuff. It might cost a few bucks but It will save you money.

I read the article, thought it might work. Did you read the Dodge 48v hybrid? It's interesting. Mount the FX inline with the alternator and a good cog belt and you have assist. Might not be great but it could work. It's done a lot more exotic than what I said.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 18, 2018 3:15 pm

Did you read the Dodge 48v hybrid? It's interesting. Mount the FX inline with the alternator and a good cog belt and you have assist. Might not be great but it could work. It's done a lot more exotic than what I said.
I did not see it. I only saw the article with the motor in the wheel. The wheel motor produces 200 foot pounds of torque. Not sure but do not think the FX motor makes that much torque. It is designed for a motorcycle and top speed. 70 to 90 mph on a 300 pound bike or about 500 pounds total. The wheel motors are designed for a 3,000 pound vehicle and with 400 foot pounds of torque should be able to produce enough thrust to propell a 3,000 car at least 100 mph.

http://www.automobile-catalog.com/curve ... matic.html

The stock PT cruiser motor will make about 210 foot pounds of torque so 400 foot pounds at the rear wheels should actually smoke the tires and make over 100 mph easily without the front motor. However it would not be good for batteries. I plan on making a homade pack with a lot of 26650 3.2 volt cells as I can use the 400 watt Mega charger and the 500 watt power supply you sent.

I will look at the 48 volt assist motor but really was hoping to put the 2 motors on the rear of the car but guess they are still prototypes. Not sure if any exist for retail sale at this time. Do to battery limitations I am looking at about 35 mph top speed and a 30 mile range with approx 3,500 pounds including passenger weight and batteries.

However I am not sure as making it a hybrid means I may need to replace the transmission. :( That will be a big bill. If I were to pull the gas engine and all the gas parts then how much would the PT cruiser weigh ? Mabye only 2,500 pounds or less. Then I could put a larger battery pack in the front and have the trunk for anything I want like a killer subwoofer. :D

decisions decisions. I know one thing though for certain. I will be getting that 24" bike going soon with the 48 volt 1,000 watt motor on the back with a 20" wheel on the back for 32.5 mph gearing and a 24" wheel on the front. It did 29 mph with the same motor. My plan is for a custom 54 volt pack and about 33 mph.

Either of my LiPo chargers can charge 26650 cells I believe 6 in series so therefore I will need to charge them in six rows of 6 in parallel series. However when I run them there is a cap limit on the 48 volt controller so I can only run two rows of 15 cells in series for parallel series and 54 volts. If I charge -48 cells with the 400 watt Mega - Charger and 24 cells with the 200 watt Skycharger then I could run four rows of 15 - 26650 cells for about 16 AH as long as I can find cells that are tested for capacity and are at least 400 mAh each cell.

I believe that I will need a much larger pack for an electric 3,000 pound + car though. The car charger will need to be about 1,000 watts and not sure about the voltage but imagine at least 72 volts and mabye over 100 volts. Also 60 - 26650 cells will not work. 600 mabye. I wonder if DA knows how far a 600 cell pack will go if the weight is 3,500 pounds total if I make it a hybrid.

30 rows of 20 cells in series. 72 volts - 120 Ah. (4 Ah * 30 = 120 Ah.) ?

I will be working on the 24" bike and looking to build a 54 volt pack - 4 rows of 15 - 26650 cells with no BMS as I need to charge them in rows of six cells. I will test each cell before re - assembling. However when I build A 600 cell pack for an electric car I will need a BMS. I only plan on running the 54 volt pack once in awhile as I will be getting at least two more of the 36V Sona packs and a second 36 volt charger. Thanks and if DA is there I would like to know approx. how far 600 cells - 72V - 120 Ah pack will go in a 3,500 total weight. If not 30 miles then not worth doing. I will need different battery options. Thanks.

LC out.
Last edited by latecurtis on Jan 18, 2018 3:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 18, 2018 3:36 pm

latecurtis wrote:
Jan 18, 2018 3:15 pm
The stock PT cruiser motor will make about 210 foot pounds of torque so 400 foot pounds at the rear wheels should actually smoke the tires and make over 100 mph easily without the front motor.
210 foot pounds of motor torque through a 4:1 transmission ratio X a 3:1 differential would mean 2520 foot pounds of torque at the wheels. (in low gear)
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 18, 2018 7:26 pm

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. E bike general discussion. :lol: :lol:

To make it right we will start off talking about the 24" build. I will be ordering a #420 chain breaker and some master links. Not sure if I have enough chain. I will need to measure. I want to install the motor but need to work on the rear rack first.

Also was wondering what you guys think is the best deal on 26650 cells so I can make that 54 volt pack ? Please let me know.
210 foot pounds of motor torque through a 4:1 transmission ratio X a 3:1 differential would mean 2520 foot pounds of torque at the wheels. (in low gear)
http://www.rubydist.com/Family/Power.html

I did not know that. So how can two electric motors attached to the rear wheels work with only 400 foot pounds of torque vs 2,400.
It seems like it would get off to a slow start however a gas motor only produces peak torque at about 3,000 to 4,000 rpm where the electric motor from 1 rpm to max rpm. Some people say 0 to max which is silly as 0 rpm = 0 torque as the motor is not even moving. :lol:

Please let me know and also if you can, how far that 600 cell - 72 volt 120 Ah pack would go in a 3,500 total pound car with passenger. Thanks.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by wturber » Jan 18, 2018 9:15 pm

Torque is a force. You can exert a force without moving something. In fact, that is one way to start something moving.

I think you are on the right track with the understanding that gasoline engines have low torque at low RPMs. That is certainly at least part of the story. I suppose the other factor is that if you have two motors with 400 foot pounds of torque each, then you've got 800 foot pounds of total torque.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 19, 2018 12:24 am

https://www.wired.com/2012/08/hybrid-conversion/
I suppose the other factor is that if you have two motors with 400 foot pounds of torque each, then you've got 800 foot pounds of total torque.
NO.

The article states each motor as 200 foot pounds and they hook directly to the wheel so I do not see any gear reduction or way to multiply the torque to make more like the gearing in a car. Mabye I missed something. Also they have not tested it yet so I do not believe I can order it now but do not have the money anyway. I can only hope they do test it and it will work. Hopefully then I will have the money.

Until then I will be looking at other options. Since the vehicle is front wheel drive there should be a way to hook an electric forklift motor to the rear wheels. 40 mph would be top speed and about 30 or 35 miles on a charge is my target range. I will need to get the transmission fixed unless it would be cheaper to build a large enough battery pack for 100 miles range at 50 mph top speed. Then I can scrap the motor and all gas related parts. Any further information on fork lift ,motors and custom battery packs will be greatly appreciated.

I just ordered a set of two master-links for #420 chain. they are supposed to be here in four days. I used a zip tie in the pictures. Looks like I will have the motor ready before I can build a custom 54 volt battery pack.

Not sure about the padal crank. It hits the floor without the pedals. :( It is a 26" frame with 24" forks and tire on the front. The rear being 20". I will need a shorter pedal crank but may not find one short enough. That sucks because I cant even fake pedaling with it.

Please let me know what the cheapest 26650 cells are that actually will put out 4 Ah per cell. I have been searching you tube and I have not seen Richard Loyd testing any 26650 cells, only the 18650 cells. Please let me know.

LC out.
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 19, 2018 8:04 am

Why are you mounting the motor on the wimpass rack when it will fit, oh so much better, down on the frame?
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 19, 2018 5:28 pm

Why are you mounting the motor on the wimpass rack when it will fit, oh so much better, down on the frame?
Same problem I was having before. #420 chain is too wide and not enough clearance between the frame and the tire. If I were to remove the pedal sprocket it would work fine on the lower part of the frame however I am hopeing that a shorter crank will fit for pedal. Behind the seat is not enough room. The chain will rub on the frame. I plan on reinforcing that rack with the steel you saw in the photo.

Like I said years ago with a rear basket "I could put a midgit with a machine gun back there and it would hold it. :lol: :lol:

LC out.


1/23/18

The rear wheel is too small for a 26" frame.The pedal crank will be dragging on the ground. I should make it a belt drive for better gear reduction with the belt drive and use 24" wheels. However I do not have money like that so am thinking about putting it on the back of the Dimond Back with the chain drive as I have two master links coming forthe chain. Not sure though.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 25, 2018 5:44 pm

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. Sona 36 volt pack.

I went downtown with the Currie last night and ran the Sona packs and walked up the small hills on the way back like I did on the first run. Voltage on return was up from 35V on the first run to 36.5 volts for the second run.

The trips were about the same 10 mph average and 3.5 miles. The batteries are in parallel for 8 Ah. Basically they have about the same capacity as the old 8.0 - Lipo pack I have not run in awhile. This proves that testing and running any battery will give the true capacity of any battery.

Basically three 10 Ah SLAs are capable of making the same trip when new many times. Perhaphs 50 to 80 times but mabye not 100 times. We are talking about 3.5 miles on the flat. I walk up hills. However a 6S - 22V 8.0 LiPo pack will do the trip about 200 to 250 times before it slows down. Two Sona packs might do the trip 300 to 400 times hopefully. If I want to go up the hills instead of walk it would take three Sona packs to do the full 3.8 miles.

If you round that off it takes 12 Ah to travel six miles with approx. 3/4 mile of hills NOT of steep grade. That really is not that good. With no hills three batteries may do 5 miles at 10 mph. Maby 15 mph but could fail at full throttle or 20+ mph. I am not sure but if the two I have can do 3.5 miles like 400 times then I got my money's worth. I have no way of knowing so I might order two more and run all four togeather.

I believe DA is running the Samsung 4.4 Ah packs and four in parallel is giving him 17.6 Ah. I will only see 16 Ah with four packs but would be able to go 15 to 23 mph for four miles with four packs. Basically I believe I am really close in stating that each 4 Ah pack could do 1 mile at full throttle and 2 miles at 10 mph. Therefore four packs should work for approx. 8 miles on flat ground but less than two if the hills are really steep where the bike slows to 5 mph. What I have learned is unless you have a large capacity pack like 30+ Ah it is better to simply walk up hills and get a little cardio. exercise and extend battery life by a lot.

Also there is no way in a million years that one 4 Ah Sona or 4.4 Ah Samsung pack will equel three 10 Ah SLAs. Three 10 Ah SLAs could do six or 7 miles on the flat and about 3 miles up moderate hills or full throttle on flat ground. However SLAs can only do that for 50 to 100 cycles and they are done so Total watt hours per battery counting maximum charging cycles the Sona 36 volt pack will be the better deal as they are a lot lighter and 300 to 400 cycles vs 50 to 100.

Now that that is cleared up I will probably get two more of the Sona packs for short trips like if I run two downtown I can run the other two to Wall Mart when I return or run them togeather for up to 7 miles if I walk up hills but for any serious distance the 26650 cells are better if building a 54 volt pack for greater than 10 miles but less than 15 miles at full throttle or 30+ mph and up to 50 miles at 10 mph on flat walking up hills.

Since I rarly go that far I see no reason to need a complicated BMS. It would be easier to simply check the cells and snap them togeather if I can find a kit for it. I can test each cell after I bulk charge them. four rows of 15 - 26650 cells in series parallel for run and for bulk charging I can use the 400 watt Megacharger for six rows of six and the 200 watt Skycharger for four rows of six parallel charge.

My only question is if anyone who reads this were to build a pack out of 26650 cells and were to order a box of 60 cells what name brand would you trust for a 4 Ah capacity rating per cell ? I see a lot of 18650 cells being tested by Richard Loyd and others but no 26650 cells. I also do not see many snap togeather kits for the 26650 cells.

I am more concerened with building a custom 54 volt 16 Ah pack out of 26650 packs then a 20" or ANY inch electric bike. Also the 54 volt pack is not a need for speed thing even though it will go faster than the 36 volt packs in parallel. However two or four 36 volt packs in parallel series for 72 volts will smoke the 54 volt pack. I am just not sure what motor to use. I do know that there is no such thing as a 72 volt brushed motor controller. Only way I am going 40 mph is with a 48 volt 1,500 watt hub motor capable of 72 volts and 2,250 watts.

Please let me know about the 26650 cells you would use if you were building a large capicity 54 volt pack. Thanks.

LC out
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by wturber » Jan 25, 2018 6:58 pm

I strongly suspect that with two more Sona packs you'll be able to do better than you think. Once you stop straining the packs, you'll get higher levels of efficiency. When I first started with my e-bike, I tried using five of the LG 36 volt packs for my commute. I found that I could almost travel my 32 miles round trip with five. If I road slower than the 20+ mph I was travelling, I probably could have. I've done 40 miles with seven packs and have had power to spare. So even if your Sona packs have a bit less capacity, I'd think you'd be able to do 20 miles with four packs if you don't go much faster than 20 mph.
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Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Jan 25, 2018 7:16 pm

Maybe missed the boat on this one, but in my experience, 26650s are not as cost effective as 18650s. 18650s are in everything. you get good economy of scale. Unfortunately you also get a lot of rebirths and fakes for that reason too.

Have you had a look at Nissan Leaf cells? They're pretty cheap over in the US if you intend on using most the capacity, and they are already automotive quality.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 25, 2018 8:17 pm

Sonas are long gone, Samsungs are long gone, you gotta jump on these great deals when they show up!

Meter the Sona cells, find out empty voltage. Take note of mAh to charge from 35V to 42V.
Multiple metered charges from various voltages will tell you where empty voltage is.
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There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 25, 2018 11:38 pm

Sonas are long gone, Samsungs are long gone, you gotta jump on these great deals when they show up!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LG-18650-LITHI ... 0005.m1851


$10 more but also 0.4 Ah more. Still worth it I guess if 400 cycles. I would like to get two next month mabye.

I also would like a hub motor which will handle 72 volts and go over 40 mph but that might be wishful thinking. Thanks for posting.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 26, 2018 8:30 am

latecurtis wrote:
Jan 25, 2018 11:38 pm
Sonas are long gone, Samsungs are long gone, you gotta jump on these great deals when they show up!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LG-18650-LITHI ... 0005.m1851


$10 more but also 0.4 Ah more. Still worth it I guess if 400 cycles. I would like to get two next month mabye.
Sold out, in hours!
If treated well ... reputable brand Lithium cells can be good for possibly thousands of cycles!
You might get hundreds?

I anticipate thousands and thousands of miles from each of my builds from the Samsung cells ... purchased from same source.
25.9V 26.4Ah with 24V 25A controller means I can never exceed 1C discharge rate and will cruise 18mph at ≤0.5C.

$150 with 36 leftover cells
Image


37V 17.6Ah "build" should perform similarly well if I demonstrate throttle restraint! 36V front hub cruises at 23mph @ WOT.

$100 for 4 packs These packs have BMS intact with access points to confirm cell voltages!
Image

Location of battery bag seems safest and I feel comfortable with it's placement. Might pack around and between batteries with closed cell foam to prevent movement and wear from rubbing against each other.
But, if I feel incapable of regulating front hub to moderate output, I will use alternate 33.3V battery or place on front of eTrike and run on 25.9V for 16mph top speed.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by wturber » Jan 26, 2018 1:42 pm

latecurtis wrote:
Jan 25, 2018 11:38 pm
Sonas are long gone, Samsungs are long gone, you gotta jump on these great deals when they show up!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LG-18650-LITHI ... 0005.m1851


$10 more but also 0.4 Ah more. Still worth it I guess if 400 cycles. I would like to get two next month mabye.

I also would like a hub motor which will handle 72 volts and go over 40 mph but that might be wishful thinking. Thanks for posting.

LC out.
Not sold out. Two available right now.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LG-18650-LITHI ... 2204707490?
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
7 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1175 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=90369

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Jan 26, 2018 4:29 pm

latecurtis wrote:
Jan 25, 2018 5:44 pm
As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. Sona 36 volt pack.

I went downtown with the Currie last night and ran the Sona packs and walked up the small hills on the way back like I did on the first run. Voltage on return was up from 35V on the first run to 36.5 volts for the second run.

The trips were about the same 10 mph average and 3.5 miles. The batteries are in parallel for 8 Ah. Basically they have about the same capacity as the old 8.0 - Lipo pack I have not run in awhile. This proves that testing and running any battery will give the true capacity of any battery.

Basically three 10 Ah SLAs are capable of making the same trip when new many times. Perhaphs 50 to 80 times but mabye not 100 times. We are talking about 3.5 miles on the flat. I walk up hills. However a 6S - 22V 8.0 LiPo pack will do the trip about 200 to 250 times before it slows down. Two Sona packs might do the trip 300 to 400 times hopefully. If I want to go up the hills instead of walk it would take three Sona packs to do the full 3.8 miles.

If you round that off it takes 12 Ah to travel six miles with approx. 3/4 mile of hills NOT of steep grade. That really is not that good. With no hills three batteries may do 5 miles at 10 mph. Maby 15 mph but could fail at full throttle or 20+ mph. I am not sure but if the two I have can do 3.5 miles like 400 times then I got my money's worth. I have no way of knowing so I might order two more and run all four togeather.

I believe DA is running the Samsung 4.4 Ah packs and four in parallel is giving him 17.6 Ah. I will only see 16 Ah with four packs but would be able to go 15 to 23 mph for four miles with four packs. Basically I believe I am really close in stating that each 4 Ah pack could do 1 mile at full throttle and 2 miles at 10 mph. Therefore four packs should work for approx. 8 miles on flat ground but less than two if the hills are really steep where the bike slows to 5 mph. What I have learned is unless you have a large capacity pack like 30+ Ah it is better to simply walk up hills and get a little cardio. exercise and extend battery life by a lot.

Also there is no way in a million years that one 4 Ah Sona or 4.4 Ah Samsung pack will equel three 10 Ah SLAs. Three 10 Ah SLAs could do six or 7 miles on the flat and about 3 miles up moderate hills or full throttle on flat ground. However SLAs can only do that for 50 to 100 cycles and they are done so Total watt hours per battery counting maximum charging cycles the Sona 36 volt pack will be the better deal as they are a lot lighter and 300 to 400 cycles vs 50 to 100.

Now that that is cleared up I will probably get two more of the Sona packs for short trips like if I run two downtown I can run the other two to Wall Mart when I return or run them togeather for up to 7 miles if I walk up hills but for any serious distance the 26650 cells are better if building a 54 volt pack for greater than 10 miles but less than 15 miles at full throttle or 30+ mph and up to 50 miles at 10 mph on flat walking up hills.

Since I rarly go that far I see no reason to need a complicated BMS. It would be easier to simply check the cells and snap them togeather if I can find a kit for it. I can test each cell after I bulk charge them. four rows of 15 - 26650 cells in series parallel for run and for bulk charging I can use the 400 watt Megacharger for six rows of six and the 200 watt Skycharger for four rows of six parallel charge.

My only question is if anyone who reads this were to build a pack out of 26650 cells and were to order a box of 60 cells what name brand would you trust for a 4 Ah capacity rating per cell ? I see a lot of 18650 cells being tested by Richard Loyd and others but no 26650 cells. I also do not see many snap togeather kits for the 26650 cells.

I am more concerened with building a custom 54 volt 16 Ah pack out of 26650 packs then a 20" or ANY inch electric bike. Also the 54 volt pack is not a need for speed thing even though it will go faster than the 36 volt packs in parallel. However two or four 36 volt packs in parallel series for 72 volts will smoke the 54 volt pack. I am just not sure what motor to use. I do know that there is no such thing as a 72 volt brushed motor controller. Only way I am going 40 mph is with a 48 volt 1,500 watt hub motor capable of 72 volts and 2,250 watts.

Please let me know about the 26650 cells you would use if you were building a large capicity 54 volt pack. Thanks.

LC out
Give up on the 26650 LiFePo cells. It takes more cells and much bigger size. If you do follow that way YOU will need a BMS.

DA has suggested you to run around the block and see how far and what voltage the battery BMS cuts out. 35 v should be close but you need to see what it really is. My controller is set at 42v or 3.5v per cell. After a couple years the Multistars are holding up pretty good. It's nice to just charge them and run them with no worries. I do check them each charge and do not need to balance them but maybe 3 times a year and that is just to maintain them. I see peak amps of 50 amp load on take off and it is much less under 20 mph than 30+mph.

Any BRUSHLESS hub motor can run a 72v pack. Controller is what controls it all. Without the correct controller any motor can be destroyed or a disappointment. One of my MACs is running 18s 66.6v or 75v off the charger.

You must be way over geared or very high drag to use 2ah in 1 mile. I just went on a 15 mile ride top speed was 30 average was 14mph and used 7.7ah out of a 44v(12s) 16ah pack. Strong wind on the way home and colder when the clouds took over the sky. I know a brushed motor is not as efficient as a brushless but didn't think it was that bad.

You keep looking for speed. Need to start out with a decent bike and a strong motor. No more brushed baby motors. I would also say stay away from those spoke mounted sprockets too if you plan on using a chain. Chain must not be tight but just a little slack in order to be efficient at all, with those big sprockets you are running.

I know you have learned a lot over the years but you are still not listening to members that have more years and experience. Not just here on ES but in real life. I really don't believe anyone here has tried to steer you in the WRONG direction.

Check your mail next week.

Dan

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 26, 2018 6:14 pm

Chain must not be tight but just a little slack in order to be efficient at all, with those big sprockets you are running.
The Currie uses a gear reduction motor. Rpm is 480 at 750 watts @ 36 volts. Freewheel sprocket is a 20 tooth I think. The chain does have some slack but not too much where I have to worry about it falling off. Also there are sections of road where 5 mph is too fast there are so many holes.

The 36 volt packs look like toy batteries for Hotwheels. :lol: I am actually surprised two of them will go 3.5 miles as small and light as they are. One 10 Ah - SLA weigh about as much as three of the Sona packs. They are about twice the weight as LiPo as the 8.0 - 6S pack weighs about as much as one Sona 4 Ah pack.

However the batteries were 36.5 volts on the second exact trip so there actually improving. It could be they are being broke in and the battery internal chemestry is improving somewhat.

I have heard stories about older LiPo packs turning into fireballs. Packs which have been reliable for years. In a LiPo bag and metal cash box the chance of fire is minimum however charging inside is a serious health hazzard considering the amount of smoke which could be released inside your house. Breathing any of it in could be as dangerous as a fire or even fatal.

Therefore even charging next to an open window I could breath some of it unless there is a high speed fan in the window blowing air out. It is way too cold for that and It is why I have NOT brought the old packs back upstairs for a recharge. When the weather warms up I will run cables down thru the window on the front porch and charge them while in the bike. I will be doing that year round for any LiPo packs from now on. I will even do a video on it for saftey. It could save someones life. :D

They are usually around 3.75 to 3.8 volts upon return from downtown so the bike is chained to a steel rail with a tarp over it. Actually it is an old air mattress which is waterproof. There is a bungee around it so the wind wont blow it off. They are safe and sound as people store LiPo in freezer when not running for awhile. I will be running the Currie with the Sona packs during really cold and really hot weather.

As far ar the 26650 cells go I really do not want to give up on them however will consider a BMS. I will also consider ordering a 1,500 watt rear hub motor for the Haro V3 and running 72 volts with four of the 36 volt packs in parallel series.

The 26650 cells will be for high capacity and long distance but not speed. It is so easy to get 72 volts and 2.250 watts with the 36 volt packs but much more difficult out of the 26650 cells as I need to charge them at 6S with either of my LiPo chargers therefore two large 6S packs - 5 rows of 6 cells = 30 and a second pack the same will work and when hooked in series will be 12 * 3.3V = 39.6 and fully charged 43.2 volts. 12 * 3.6 I believe.

If the Ah of each 26650 cell is 4 Ah then it will be a functionl approx. 40 volt - 20 Ah pack. That should be good for 20 miles at 20 mph. 30 miles at 15 mph. It would take two - 20.0 - 6S Multistar Lipo packs to get the same range so if I can build two LIFEPO4 packs with 26650 cells for half the price of the two Multistars it would be worth it. Otherwise not.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Turnigy-MultiS ... SwGwlZ~tYi

$400 for two 20.0 multistars plus $15 shipping. Even if on sale for $150 I should be able to build a 20- Ah pack for less than $200 with the BMSs. Please let me know. I will be doing videos again and will have one last chain drive with the 48 volt controller and will run the old LiPo packs the same distance with the chain drive and the 20" rear hub motor and will compare voltage after the trip. I will do the same with the Currie chain drive and the rear 20" hub motor. We will see how ineffecient the chain drives are. I will do a video for each run which will be exact distance and try to maintain the same speed with each bike.

the one 8.0 pack I have not run in awhile is still good as the picture shows. The old packs in the cashbox are under the green thing and I have already charged with two 15 foot extension cords with the AC plugs cut off. I soldered a bullet plug on each cord and banna plug on the other. It worked but needed the wire to build the new 24" cargo bike so it got cut up. I just need two more 15 foot cords.

I may buy more LiPo if on sale. Definatlly not paying $200 for a 20.0 - 6S pack though. Mabye $150. $100 for a 16.0 - 6S pack if I decide not to get 26650 cells. However am still charging outside.

I do not feel like walking the 0.3 miles up the hill tonight and need to go to redbox and Mcdonalds which adds about 1/2 a mile to the trip so thanks to the variable controller I have the option of running the 8.0 - 6S pack downtown and the 36V Sona packs home up the little hills. :mrgreen: Thanks.



LC out.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by wturber » Jan 26, 2018 8:21 pm

Something is not right. You are using about three times the watt hrs that you should be using. Months ago I did a test where I showed a short 3.1 mile trip used 1.5 ah form one single pack and still had plenty of power left. If your Sona packs are at all close to the LG packs, they should perform similarly.

I think you need to directly measure the amps being used so that you know what is actually going on. Get one of those $15 power meters. Something like this.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Jan 27, 2018 12:24 am

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/multistar-h ... tore=en_us
$127 That is a $^ saving. Not $200

ALL I CAN SAY IS YOU WON'T LIKE EM. Gonna be as big and as heavy as the SLAs.

Dan

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jan 27, 2018 3:02 am

YES. Thanks Dan.

I would like to order that. but shipping is `$36

For around town 6S Lipo will work for ALL my motors. The smallest motor I run is the 500 24V unite with the 800 watt 36~V unite on front. dual 500 controllers. Gearing is 1,000 watt total and 20 mph. Then the 750 watt gear reduction chain drive on the Currie. The 800 watt 20" (currently running ) then the 1,000 watt unite currently NOT hooked up and the 48V 1,000 watt hub motor Sunder sent( currently not running ) five e bikes total. Three running.

The variable controllers without any LVC protection run 6S LiPo. Any knowledgable e bike rider should know the capacity of the batteries they use. LiPo alarms and such are for dummys. :lol: :lol:

I only go certain places and routes so can calculcate distances and even take inclines into consideration and most of the time >98% never exceed battery capacity. I only screwed up a few times when running LiPo hundreds of times. Tonight was not one. pack voltade was greater than 3.7 on all six when switching to the 36V packs downtown. Nothing is charging and not going anywhere tommorow. Getting drunk. . If you click on the picture it will get larger. 22V - 6S pack on seat and SONA packs in frame. The Currie and first e bike is still awsome. It rides smooth like a dream.

The Schwinn and hub motor needs a spoke but the comfort and reliability mimmick the original Currie. Just like my upgrades I did to the Currie from 450 watts stock to 750. However the schwinn 48V hub motor needs a spoke to be great again.

Thanks.

LC out.
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Post by DrkAngel » Jan 27, 2018 7:19 am

latecurtis wrote:
Jan 27, 2018 3:02 am
The variable controllers without any LVC protection run 6S LiPo. Any knowledgable e bike rider should know the capacity of the batteries they use. LiPo alarms and such are for dummys. :lol: :lol:
What does that say about you, since you've destroyed so many Lipos?
A full level of incompetence-stupidity below dummy?

In 10 years and nearly 50,000 eBike miles, I have never destroyed a single battery.
Still running good 2014 Lipo build with ~7500miles and hundreds and hundreds of cycles on it.

... except 1st trial build from used-recycled-unsorted laptop cells, killed a few cells, before I doubled it's size. (2008 = more than 10 years ago)
I learned from my mistakes ... you keep making the same mistake, again and again and again!
Destroyed most every LiPo you've ever bought.
(definition of insanity = doing the exact same thing over and over but expecting a different result.)
At some point you must realize that the batteries aren't destroying themselves ... you are destroying them! ... ?

The only reason Dan's Lipos have survived is that they have been, mostly, used on the hub motor bike with the 48V controller with LVC safety cut off.
Protects them from your typical abuse!
Deep and\or heavy discharges are damaging and tend to produce imbalances, internal shorts, capacity deterioration = early death!
Last edited by DrkAngel on Jan 27, 2018 1:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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DrkAngel
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Post by DrkAngel » Jan 27, 2018 8:28 am

latecurtis wrote:
Jan 27, 2018 3:02 am
I only screwed up a few times when running LiPo hundreds of times. Tonight was not one. pack voltade was greater than 3.7 on all six when switching to the 36V packs downtown. Nothing is charging and not going anywhere tommorow. Getting drunk. . If you click on the picture it will get larger. 22V - 6S pack on seat and SONA packs in frame.
Sadly, you have never even figured out at what voltage your batteries are empty!
Is 3.70V/cell empty on the LiPo? 3.60V? 3.50V? 3.40V?
What is "empty" on the Sona? 3.70V like some Sanyo I've built with or 3.40V like my most recent Samsung? Or?
Various common Lithium formulations are effectively empty at:
(static voltages)
3.70V
3.60V
3.40V
3.20V
You have a great tool in your metered charger but, apparently, never check metered charge capacity from various voltages to determine where "empty" is, or figure actual capacity.
Even a simple volt meter can act as a reasonable fuel gauge ... after you find out where empty is ...
Best bargain recently is the throttle with volt meter and key lock for about $10.
Last edited by DrkAngel on Jan 27, 2018 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 27, 2018 9:22 am

latecurtis wrote:
Jan 27, 2018 3:02 am
For around town 6S Lipo will work for ALL my motors. The smallest motor I run is the 500 24V unite with the 800 watt 36~V unite on front. dual 500 controllers. Gearing is 1,000 watt total and 20 mph. Then the 750 watt gear reduction chain drive on the Currie. The 800 watt 20" (currently running ) then the 1,000 watt unite currently NOT hooked up and the 48V 1,000 watt hub motor Sunder sent( currently not running ) five e bikes total. Three running.
My most impressive, recent, upgrade was over volting (24V≫37V) my eZip (Snow Beast) then gearing it down (20T≫22T) for a 700w+ 20mph+.
Legal 20mph, when battery low, and near legal 750w limit. (36≫37V increases to 732w motor output!)

Tire size utilized as gear ratio function.
Image

Compared with my typical eZip @ 25.9V and upgeared (20T≫16T) for 20mph.

19.4mph up 5% grade!
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

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