new eZip motor

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » May 14 2018 6:31am

As the Hub Motor Turns and the Lipo Fire Burns.

I need a battery pack now.

I already own 18 - 18650 laptop cells. Most are banged up but if I buy a four pack of Wall - mart cells and use the 20 fake cells I will have a cargo bike.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » May 14 2018 6:31am

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » May 14 2018 7:18am

You've been warned about the low C rate of laptop cells a multitude of times!
Combine this with the differing optimal DOD and you are virtually assured of nearly immediate failure.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » May 14 2018 6:46pm

You've been warned about the low C rate of laptop cells a multitude of times!
Combine this with the differing optimal DOD and you are virtually assured of nearly immediate failure.
How is it that you build packs from old laptop batteries then ? I would like to know your secret. I would like to do the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XDaPzRJNAA&t=3s

The Westinghouse Wall-Mart batteries are about 500 mAh less than the fake LG cells.

Unfortunately the seller I bought the fake cells from did not send me 8 free cells but went with the other option of refunding me $15.

I am going to Wall-Mart to pick up the Westinghouse cells so I can at least have a 24V - 6S pack for the Currie.

My question is since the fake LG cells have more capacity would LiPo alarms which are set above 3.0V work to protect the lower capacity WESTINGHOUSE cells ?

Basically when the fake LG cells reach 3.3V the WESTINGHOUSE cells will be around 3V. Since there are only four WESTINGHOUSE cells in the 24 volt pack I may need to replace the WESTINGHOUSE cells before the fake LG cells. That is not really a problem as a four pack of WESTINGHOUSE cells are $15 at Wall-Mart.

Sure I could simply order 4 more fake LG cells. However really do not feel like waiting until next year for delivery.

I ordered four more fake LG cells and wrote the seller requesting four more if I place an order for 20 more at full price.

I am thinking about two 4S packs to run in series for 8S but do not know if 6 Ah will be enough. The SONA packs combined are 8 Ah and anything less with a chain drive may not work.

https://secondlifestorage.com/t-Panason ... ifications

Those are the old laptop cells in question. I did a capacity test on two of them and they are > 1,000 mAh above 3V.
I tested them in parallel. They were > 2,000 mAh and greater than 3.2V

I just found two more , one is 3.7V and the other 3.9V. I am parallel charging them. They are blue without any markings. I think they are complete garbage but want to find out for sure. The other cells are around 2.2 down to 1.5V.

They are supposed to be protected so should shut off at 3.0 volt.However not sure as some are al low as 1.5V so if protected how is that even possible ? They are rated at 2,000 mAh but I think it was 2,200 mAh at 3.23V both cells in parallel. This must mean that they are 1,100 to 1,200 mAh capacity USED.

`In parallel with the new cells would they add to the capacity of the pack until they reach 3.0V then simply turn off ?

Also I was wondering if I were to assemble a 6S pack using different capacity cells could it be run in series with a 6S fake LG cell pack. (see bottom pic.) ?????

I also am looking for more old laptop cells. If I get enough will I be able to build a large capacity pack ? How many will I need. I might be getting more and would like a large pack to run the Currie. Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC out.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » May 15 2018 5:56pm

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns.


It seems that all six of the laptop cells tested are > 1,000 mAh. but not high drain.

I tested two of the blue cells in parallel and since they were not high drain like the other cells I set the discharge rate to 600 mAh which is 300 mA per cell.

As you can see these blue cells could easily be 1,500 mAh so are probably rated at 2,000 mAh new.

I showed you that the green Panasonic cells were rated 2,000 mAh and posted a spec sheet. I just might order a bin of used laptop cells if I can find similar batteries.

My question is how large of a pack can I build. In other words new cells tested would only need 6 rows of four in parallel series to achieve 8 Ah @ 6S. How many rows for the same with used cells ? 6 rows of 6 maybe or 6 rows of 7 ? Six rows of 8 would be ridiculous.


It is somewhat confusing as if they are 2,000 mAh BRAND NEW and USED the capacity is between 50% and 75% does that require 6 rows of 8 or 48 USED cells to equal 24 NEW or would 6 rows of 6 or 36 USED 2,000 mAh cells equal 24 BRAND NEW 2,000 mAh cells.

The company who I got the fake cells from gave me a $15 refund so I ordered four more for one 24 cell 6S - 8Ah pack. I requested the same deal next month where if I order 20 cells they would send 4 free. They declined.

I offered to buy 50 cells for $150 next month. I told them 70 / 20 = $3:50 per cell was too much for cells which were not genuine and not 3,000 mAh above 3.0V. I said 3 bucks a cell is the best I can do next month so I will see what they say.

In the meantime am looking for better deals however really need more of the same for 12S. Unless I make the second pack from laptop cells. Please let me know. Thanks.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Mixed-Pani ... SwjB9a7JcC

OK it looks like I got a BINGO here. :lol: EXACTLY what I am looking for. If you read the description you will see. Even if the seller of the fake LG batteries makes me an offer I will be ordering these first unless DA orders them all. :roll:

It states that is the last of them. Only 100 cells left. :cry: :cry:

DA , SUNDER or DAN.

It says only $13 for shipping. That is $163. for 100 decent cells $1:63 per cell. :D

If one of you decide to get them before they are gone I can send a money order from WALL-MART next month on the 3rd for $75 + $10 - $15 for shipping 50 cells to me. It should not be more than $15 for shipping 50 cells if the company ships 100 cells for $13. Please let me know. Thanks again.

5/15/18

I just picked up a pack of Westinghouse cells from Wall-Mart. (see bottom pic) My problem is I don't usually have much to spend except for the first of the month. During the month I sell bike parts or computer parts and get like 20 bucks or 40 bucks from the ol lady.

Also the bottom pic shows the spokes Dan sent. I found them and Doug will be fixing the Hub motor on the Schwinn.

I might be able to afford like 4 cells a week for $15 close to $16 with the tax so am paying like $4 per cell. The thing is though I don't have to wait a year for them to get here. Building a decent pack from 18650 cells is taking way way too long. I have six electric bikes and only batteries to run two.

The SONA packs are going to stay with the 29" Hybrid bike (easy street) The old LiPo packs in the cash box are good for Wall-Mart or the grocery store. I need a decent pack for the Currie and little 20" cargo bike, Both are chain drive and not nearly as efficient as the geared hub motor which I run the SONA packs exclusively.

Therefore I need at least 48 - 44 volts at 8 Ah minimum, 10 to 12 Ah would be even better. Not sure how I will accomplish that though.

Right now I am 4 cells short of a 24 cell - 6S pack. The other 4 cells are ordered but definitely not holding my breath until they get here. It might be possible to grow a maple tree and sit in the shade by then, :lol:

I also have 6 used laptop cells all > 1,200 mAh. I also have four Westinghouse cells I will be testing tonight. They were already tested on you tube and were > 1,600 mAh. Please let me know. Thanks.

LC out.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » May 16 2018 6:28am

garbage,

The Wall - Mart cells are junk.

around or less than 1,000 mAh. - 1 Ah

However they are brand new cells.

I have quite a miss match indeed.

I believe though it is exactly what to expect from used laptop cells. People do build packs out of them though.

I know what type of BMS i will need. The one which works when discharging,

It will lower current or C rate to cells which are lower capacity and draw extra current from cells of higher capacity.

Can someone please help me out here so I can order the correct BMS please. Thanks.

LC out.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » May 16 2018 7:01am

2000mAh Sona cells were only $1.75! ... ?
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » May 16 2018 7:10am

2000mAh Sona cells were only $1.75! ... ?
were only $1.75 !!!!! :(

that is past tense. OUT OF STOCK - NOT AVAILABLE NOW

It was probably in the middle of the month when I was broke. :oops:

It is just like spare parts. I need to use what I have to the best of my ability. Kind of how I converted the Currie with no cargo capacity to a SUPER cargo bike even greater than before. (see my last post)

I accomplished this with parts I already own. I got to skip the Home Depot trip. :D

I wish to use whatever 18650 cells I can come up with and need the TYPE of BMS which is best suited to accommodate that.
I read and study different BMS functions in past two years or so.

I am looking for the BMS circuit which works during the DISCHARGE process limiting current or discharge rate to weaker cells and compensating by producing a little extra form the NEW or higher capacity cells in the pack.

please let me know and am looking for 3 day shipping. Thanks.

LC out.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » May 16 2018 7:25am

Sona packs posted up for you on the 9th, ended yesterday on the 15th.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » May 16 2018 7:33am

latecurtis wrote:
May 16 2018 7:10am
I am looking for the BMS circuit which works during the DISCHARGE process limiting current or discharge rate to (from?) weaker cells and compensating by producing a little extra form the NEW or higher capacity cells in the pack.
BMS will not perform that function!
Cells in parallel will naturally perform that function.
Bank capacity being equal is more important.

Major problem is mixing 10C rated cells with 1C rated cells!
Next worst is cells of differing optimal DOD. "Fulling discharging" some model cells might leave others with substantial capacity - fully discharging deeper will, likely, damage-destroy higher voltage rated DOD cells.
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A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » May 16 2018 3:27pm

Sona packs posted up for you on the 9th, ended yesterday on the 15th.
I believe it was the new packs which ended. I think I bought the last two.

I think you were referring to used SONA packs. Now I am starting to wonder if my Sky-charger is accurate. These Westinghouse cells should be considerably higher and when tested on you tube were > 1,600 mAh NOT < 1,100 mAh

They were charged and discharged in parallel so should be at least 3,000 mAh. Both cells read 3.68V before I charged them to FULL and then discharged them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XDaPzRJNAA&t=4s

Please watch the video. I do not understand. Does the guy work for Wall-Mart and is he a big lair or is there something wrong with my equipment ? Or is it possible Westinghouse is buying cheaper batteries now and putting their label on them.

I really want to know. This is ridiculous. I really would like to build a working pack here but the used laptop cells are close to or more than double the capacity as the new Westinghouse cells are. Please post when you can, Thanks.

LC out.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by wturber » May 16 2018 4:16pm

You need a known good cell, a known good meter, or a known amp draw (light bulb?) so that you can do some comparison checks to determine if your meter is faulty.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » May 16 2018 6:06pm

You need a known good cell, a known good meter, or a known amp draw (light bulb?) so that you can do some comparison checks to determine if you meter is faulty.

Good idea. Thank you.

I have another LiPo charger. The Mega-charger. It is 400 watts. Dan sent me it a long time ago.

I used it mostly to charge SLAs and only once or twice charging LiPo however it basically works the same way.

I am going to try it now. I am going to do a single cell this time and see what I get.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by wturber » May 16 2018 6:38pm

latecurtis wrote:
May 16 2018 6:06pm
You need a known good cell, a known good meter, or a known amp draw (light bulb?) so that you can do some comparison checks to determine if you meter is faulty.

Good idea. Thank you.

I have another LiPo charger. The Mega-charger. It is 400 watts. Dan sent me it a long time ago.

I used it mostly to charge SLAs and only once or twice charging LiPo however it basically works the same way.

I am going to try it now. I am going to do a single cell this time and see what I get.
If that charger displays the amp hours of charge that it adds to a cell, that's another way to try to get some sanity as well. For instance, I have a portable Watt Meter (Tenergy) that tracks power usage, displays volts etc.But it doesn't seem accurate to me. So when I charge my battery I also look at the amp-hours that my charger says it is adding to the battery pack ... and that number is more than the other meter says is being used. But the charger's numbers jibe better with the voltage trends and with what I'd expect in actual usage (20 Wh/mile vs. 16 Wh/mile.) So I trust my charger and don't trust my Tenergy Watt Meter. I have a feeling that the Tenergy Watt Meter may not always be monitoring ... that sometimes its measurement cuts out for some reason or another. I need to handle-mount it temporarily and watch what it is doing.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » May 17 2018 2:01am

IMG_3550.JPG
It appears that the 200 watt Sky-charger is not accurate at all when testing capacity. Therefore Sunder is most likely correct in the LG cells are genuine and 3,000 mAh or very close.

The company has sent the 4 cells I ordered with the rebate but declined to give any more rebates on future orders. I will retest one of the cells and see if I get close to 3,000 mAh with the Mega-charger.

I know the shipping will take forever but informed the company I got the LG cells from that I would order 24 more next month when I get the funds to do so and will pay full price with no further complaints.

It seems that the video the guy made indicating the LG cells are fake may in fact be wrong and doing it to hurt the LG company. I wont know for sure until I test at least two more with the Mega-charger.

I will also let the company know and if the cells are greater than 2,700 mAh above 3.0V they could be genuine. The main thing the guy in the video pointed out was the markings on the cells being all little dots and the cap was not as shiny as original LG cells.

I really do not like being made a fool out of so will get to the bottom of this. The company has been more than patient with me and I got 4 batteries for free so will take the time to actually prove them to be fake or real even if I have to order a single genuine cell direct from LG or a more expensive dealer who is reputable.

What makes no sense at all is the top pic was the results of two Westinghouse cells in parallel charged to full and discharged via Sky charger.

The bottom is a single Westinghouse cell also charged to full and discharging. It absolutely makes no sense at all.

For anyone who did NOT watch the video I will re post it. I also took pictures of the cells up close and they looked exactly like the fake cells in the video. That plus the great difference I have been getting testing the Westinghouse cells really makes me wonder. I will post the results on the Westinghouse cell.

Currently it is 1,100+ @ 37V. I am guessing right around 2,000 mAh when it is finished. The you tube video said they were about 1,600 to 1,700 mAh tested.

Almost the entire last page was the LG cells being tested however only with the Sky charger not the Mega charger. I was thinking earlier today about putting two cells together and do a partial discharge to about 3.5V then separate and test voltage. This way I will know which cells are the best choice to parallel up. Thanks.




LC out.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » May 17 2018 5:56am

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » May 17 2018 6:16am

As the Hub Motor Turns and the Lipo Fire Burns. Why people order SLA.

Basically three 22 Ah SLAs could have been here with all the money spent on 18650 cells.

The Currie could have been hooked up.

If I keep it tied downstairs I never need to haul it upstairs.

I got a cargo bike down there now.The 800 watt hub motor.

I am not sure if 18650 cells are worthwhile as I never had enough of them to try. I am looking to find out though. There are some good looking deals on used BUT TESTED cells on e bay. They even go to the trouble of labeling them. :D Thanks.

LC out

7:10 AM 5/18/18

test on LG cell with Mega charger results. Time ran out however don't see 3,000 mAh above 3.0V. Both chargers confirm LG fakes at 2,000 to 2,200 Ah without severe damage to battery due to over discharge voltage. Thanks.

LC out.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » May 21 2018 1:58am

Man, you step out for a few days, and it all goes to hell in a hand basket.

Lets clear up a few things:

1. Discharged to 2.5v, most 18650s will have roughly a 300 cycle life.
Discharged to 2.8v most 18650s will have roughly a 500 cycle life.
Discharging to the manufacturers spec will at most lose you 0.3% of the battery life. But so what? You've got em now, if you're never intending to run them that low, who cares what the capacity below 3.0v is. As long as you're terminating by voltage and not by time, you get a good feel for what you have to work with and how to match them.

2. If you had a ruler that was accurate +/- 1cm, and you measured 1cm, you could be anywhere between 0cm and 2cm. That's a problem. In fact, it's a useless measurement. But if you were measuring 100cm, it being 99cm or 101cm probably isn't that much of a problem. Why am I saying this? Because the Skycharger may be shit measuring single cells, okay at averaging out strings of parallel cells, and accurate enough for whole packs.

So, what you want to do, is get your strings as close to balanced as possible. measure them all once to 3.0v. Write on it, and get a spreadsheet to figure out which cell goes in which string, then build the string. Then test the strings together, to make sure you were right. If you were, keep going. If not, rebalance.

Finally, test the whole pack. Do a top balance charge until every string is 4.2v. (Or 4.1, or whatever termination voltage you want). Then discharge the whole pack. Now do a non-balancing charge. If everything is within 0.02v you're golden. If it's more than that, your pack isn't equal, and some cells would have over-discharged.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » May 21 2018 6:22pm

I have decided not to mix the LG cells with the laptop cells I have.

I have 4 cells showing up in the mail at any day now and will have a complete 24 cell - 6S pack between 10 and 12 AH.

It will be light duty for the Currie for grocery and Wall-Mart. approx. 2 to 2.5 miles round trip WITH some pedal assist as Doug installed my pedal chain with a derailleur and a decent pedal gear.

Not sure if I will be ordering 24 more of those LG cells this month. Looking at 100 laptop cells for around 100 bucks.

I am thinking about a very large pack so capacity and discharge of each cell won't be so much of an issue. Looking for cells over 1,500 mAh and not sure about discharge rates for a large pack

130 cells is my target and 10 rows of 13 cells. Any idea for a BMS. I am looking for the BMS to do most of the work if possible. I will test voltage and am looking for cells already tested for the capacity with it written on the cells. I will post links and then can let me know what is the best bet.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Mixed-Pani ... SwjB9a7JcC

https://www.ebay.com/itm/100-ATL-18650- ... Sw8zdazko2

Those are two options. I might order 24 more LG cells instead for two 6S packs I can run in series and balance charge on the 6S charger. It depends on what deal is available when I get some cash.

The Schwinn with the hub motor will be fixed as I have a bag of spokes which hopefully one will fit. My friend Doug is going to fix it and balance the wheel.

The new LG cells I got probably will be around awhile but tested used cells won't last long so if you think a good deal is there I should order them before they are gone. Thanks and please let me know.

the testing I will do with the laptop cells which are all different. The LG cells are all 3.67V out of the box. I should not have to go thru all of that. I will follow those steps when I get 130 batteries together which will be used but tested laptop batteries and Wall- Mart 18650 cells. Thanks Sunder.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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latecurtis   1 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » May 23 2018 5:49pm

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. first 6S pack with 18650 cells.

I actually stood on the pack with one foot and pressed down hard to make sure all cells made contact.

However before I do anything else I will need zip ties to make sure they stay together and all cells stay in contact. The kit came with zip ties but I may have used them when I put the pack together with the lap top cells or I lost them.

I will save myself the trouble of balancing strings for now and simply order 24 more LG cells for a second 6S pack. Since I have the other pack all built with balance wires and ready for the cells. All the Lg cells are very close or at 3.67V.

Later on this spring or summer I will put together a 130 cell pack or better yet two 78 cell packs from used laptop cells mixed with Wall- Mart cells. 13 * 6 = 78 cells. 6 strings with a BMS I think would work better than 10 or 12 strings with a BMS.

Will I be able to run them in parallel though ? Awhile I am waiting for 24 more LG cells I can build my own 18650 battery kit out of wood, nuts and bolts and my bag of crimp on connectors. I have plenty of time to design and build it. I just need to know what my best choice in a BMS or BMSs would be for such a large pack with different capacity cells.

Please let me know as I will be ordering a large amount of tested used laptop cells to go with the six laptop cells and the four Westinghouse cells I have now. Please post when you can. Thanks.

LC out.
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » May 24 2018 12:38am

As long as cells are of the same chemistry, you can run it in parallel. You can put a 100mah, 50mOhm cell in parallel with a 200Ah 0.1mOhm cell in parallel and they will work.

It's when you serialise them that you need to make sure they match reasonably well, both for capacity and resistance.

How are you testing for internal resistance?
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DrkAngel   100 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » May 24 2018 2:02am

I use a comparative IR "method".
With all cells at identical voltage, I individually subject each cell to identical discharge.

Metered discharge device
Attach volt meter leads in parallel to discharge device such as:
light bulb
Heating element
etc.
1C discharge would be ideal, 3 amp from 3000mAh cells, but greater than .5C is just fine, as comparative IR.

Discharge and note voltage after a specific duration of discharge, such as at 1 minute during discharge at 1C.
Label each cell with noted voltage.
Last edited by DrkAngel on May 24 2018 8:53am, edited 2 times in total.
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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » May 24 2018 3:35am

Not a bad method. Certainly good enough for matching if your voltameter goes to 1/100th of a volt.

LC - DA didn't explicitly say it, but you need to record the voltage before you take off the load.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
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DrkAngel   100 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » May 24 2018 8:58am

Yes, you want to measure the "voltage sag", so you need to measure the voltage during the discharge, and take the voltage reading at the specific time.

I lucked into possession of a Fluke multimeter ... measures to 1/1000thV !
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

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latecurtis   1 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » May 25 2018 6:02am

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. Currie Super Stealth Cargo Plus.

Regardless what some might think in NY state if it has a motor on it it is supposed to be registered. It is why I got the little geared hub motor and built Easy Street. My 700 cc e bike with a 500 watt geared freewheel hub motor. It is a low profile ride.

The Currie is my first e bike and could possibly die or go to prison defending it from a law enforcement officer (dirty rotten swine)
Therefore I must hide the motor and controller and batteries from public view.

The bag on the front handle-bars over the variable controller will be replaced by a similar bag in a similar way but approx. 50% smaller. That bag will be cut in half and the result will be it will look like saddle bags which will hide the motor. They will attach to the pieces of milk crates now hiding the motor.

The LG cells are fully charged.

I have a 6S pack > 8 Ah and close to 10 Ah.

I read your posts.

I was thinking about getting 24 Westinghouse and putting together a pack. I don't have to wait for shipping.

Then do a test run with a speedo. Go about a 1- 1/2 mile round trip. Try to do average speed >10 and < 15 mph.

Repeat with second pack. Compare voltage upon return.

This should break in the packs and also determine which cells / pack is greater capacity.

The same method can be done on used laptop cells arraigned in strings. I still need to build my own 18650 battery kits out of wood. I will need to work on that also.

The Currie can run on 6S LiPo with the variable controller with the pot. If I could remove the bad cells from the LiPos I would have two 5S - 10 Ah packs and two 5S - 8 Ah packs.

The two LiPo packs with the bad cells are on the front porch. The other two bad LiPos are out in the dryer in the van.
I put a balancer to the two on the porch and the bad cells do not show up. If I discharge them they will though I bet.

I spent a lot of money on those LiPos and don't run them because of bad cells. The one out in the dryer was puffed up. I watched videos on removing the bad cell. I would like to attempt it. I want to get my moneys worth out of the cheap e bay LiPo I bought.

Thanks.

PS.

Notice the little purple 20" bike (third pic from bottom) 48V 1,000 Unite motor. It is 30 mph capable with that motor. Especially with a 13S - 54 volt 130 cell pack or two 5 string 13S - 54V packs in parallel.

That might even do the trick for a 1,800 watt 48 volt brushless motor upgrade. :twisted: Thanks.

LC out.
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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