new eZip motor

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latecurtis
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Nov 02, 2017 2:34 am

Yeah ... but it is not the batteries ... it is you!
Up this page ... warned you again!!!
Told you exactly how and why you are destroying LiPo!

You are right.

However I really do not believe I put more than 5 or six miles on them. The chain being too tight was like 10 or 12 miles considering wasted energy.
I am a battery abuser and will never run SLA again so LIPO4 is my only option now.
i admitted I was a battery abuser but the same pack NEW would probably have only read 3.7 volts or maybe 3.6 volts and would not have been damaged.

Batteries were not meant to last forever and those 10.0 packs were not abused when I first got them. I ran them fully charged to Doug;s which is only 6 miles round trip and in series for 44 volts. It was my second time running them I think and The other 10.0 pack out in the dryer was defective and puffed NOT abused. THIS one however I abused but this was the first time.

Also the Quality of these cheap packs are in question. The packs Dan sent held up and are still running. I might make a parallel wire to run all 4 - 5S packs for 20 Ah. I got to lossen the chain a little though. I never charged without balancing but if I could it would save time. Charging each separate takes to much time. Balance charging once after every 3 bulk charges would be easier. Thanks.

LC out.

PS. I got it on the charger at 1 amp. I am monitoring it. Perhaps I should fill a 5 gallon pail about 3/4 full of salt water and if it starts smoking unplug it from the charger and throw it in the pail.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 02, 2017 3:12 am

latecurtis wrote:
Yeah ... but it is not the batteries ... it is you!
Up this page ... warned you again!!!
Told you exactly how and why you are destroying LiPo!
i admitted I was a battery abuser but the same pack NEW would probably have only read 3.7 volts or maybe 3.6 volts and would not have been damaged.

Batteries were not meant to last forever and those 10.0 packs were not abused when I first got them. I ran them fully charged to Doug;s which is only 6 miles round trip and in series for 44 volts. It was my second time running them I think and The other 10.0 pack out in the dryer was defective and puffed NOT abused. THIS one however I abused but this was the first time.
3.7V might be "empty" 1 minute more might be 0V.
LiPo ("other 10Ah pack") "puffs" when it nears 0V.
Volt meter-Alarms would have kept either from damage!

"Abuse" does take only once!
Maybe you should stick to SLA.
Your typical abuse only makes them weak and low capacity, but they don't blow up.
Maybe after you learn to respect SLA, maybe you might want to try LiPo again.

LiFePO4 are more resilient but can be damaged similarly to SLA and LiPo ... severty somewhere between the 2.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Nov 02, 2017 3:19 am

https://www.amazon.com/ALLMAYBE-EC2-Uni ... dpSrc=srch


NOT happening. SLAs are garbage.

The box of full river LIFEPO4 cells are the way I am going.

Three of these cheap bulk chargers will make sure I will always have a drawer full of fully charged cells and at least two full charged packs on standby. Also with the variable controller I can make it any voltage I want from 24 volts up to 48 volts.

I think I should make my first pack when I get them a little above 36 volts and put the 800 watt motor from the Diamondback on the back of the cargo bike instead of the chain drive.

Then I can use the Unite 1,000 watt 48 volt motor for the 24" bike on the back porch and a second motor exactly like it for 2,000 watts all wheel drive and 40 mph. :twisted: :twisted: :D Thanks for posting.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 02, 2017 3:52 am

latecurtis wrote:NOT happening. SLAs are garbage.
SLA have limitations for optimal-ideal usage ... You, quickly, turn them into "garbage" with your abuse!

You do know that 6 LiFePO4 cells = only 19.2V (~18V) ... ?
Last edited by DrkAngel on Nov 02, 2017 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Nov 02, 2017 4:18 am

Thank you. I need to know that. Now that you gave me that I can make it work when I get the big box of them.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Nov 02, 2017 4:28 am

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. 3.2 volts. A positive or a negative ? ;The Magic number/ Christmas wishes. A box of Full River LiPO4 cells.


3.2 * 12 = 38.4 volts.

3.2 * 15 = 51.2 volts.

3.2 * 20 = 64 volts.

That basically covers everything I want to do.

38.4 volts for ALL my cargo haulers.

51.2 volts for the Currie with the 36 volt gear reduction motor and the Schwinn when the spoke is fixed.

64 volts for a 1,500 watt 48 volt hub motor for the Haro V3.

Thanks again. LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Nov 02, 2017 11:03 am

I will make this real simple.

YOU'LL BE SORRY!!!

Dan

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Nov 03, 2017 1:05 am

new batt.png
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Box-of-60- ... 2bea128457

OK. I know I can build it. I also know I will be better off with a BMS and a 36 volt LIFEPO4 charger.

That is all I will need help on. What BMS and charger I will need and how to hook it up. I will use 10 gauge wire and terminals shown below for perfect connections.

60 cells come in the box so I will have 24 left over however I just did the math and could use all 60 for 27 Ah however I will need a BMS to support 60 cells therefore I will have to build this according to what BMS I can afford and is available. Thank you guys and Please post.

The LiPo pack I ran low is total garbage. I charged it to 3.84V and ran it less than 1 mile to the store a little while ago and one of the cells is almost 5V and another almost 0V. I am taking it outside and putting it in the dryer. I do not want it in my house. I do not want to breath in any smoke if it decides to pop.

I do not understand what Dan meant. I thought LIFEPO4 is safer than LiPo. Mabye he means that I will be sorry if I try it WITHOUT a BMS and 36V charger. That is why I thought it over and realize I will be better off WITH the BMS and 36V LIFEPO4 charger. Also every one of my 5 electric bikes will run at 36 volts so it makes perfect sense to go with that and worry about 60 volts when I do get a 1,500 watt 48 volt Hub motor.

Please let me know about a 36V charger and BMS. I want at least 16.2 AH but if I can build it larger without spending too much I will. Thanks.

LC out.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 03, 2017 8:34 am

BMS is not "how many cell".
BMS is Amp throughput and "how many series".
latecurtis wrote:The LiPo pack I stupidly and irresponsibly ran low because of my laziness and unwillingness to listen to common sense is now turned into total garbage. I charged it to 3.84V (average per cell) without even checking cell voltages after I obviously abused it, when I knew it needed balance charging and ran it less than 1 mile to the store a little while ago and one of the cells is almost 5V and another almost 0V.
latecurtis wrote:I do not understand what Dan meant. I thought LIFEPO4 is safer than LiPo. Mabye he means that I will be sorry if I try it WITHOUT a BMS and 36V charger. LC out.
Possibly,
with your unwillingness to listen to good advice,
your disregard for basic safety measures,
your "I got a better idea" attitude,
will develop new and improved methods of screwing things up - destroying the most undestroyable batteries! ... ?
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Nov 03, 2017 9:45 am

Those cells are 5.4 AH each? They must be monsters. What size are they? Do you know they are only 9.9amp load or less than 2c? they are like SLAs or less. They are huge 1.27 dia. and 2.83 long!!
That is gonna be a big battery if you build it as your pic. I thought my LiFePo I had were weak and that wes 8/9 years ago.
Good luck LC.

Dan

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Nov 03, 2017 6:01 pm

First of all that is only the second time in over two years I ran a LiPo pack below 3.6 volts. The first time was with one of the 8.0 packs I got off of E bay.

These 10.0 packs were garbage to begin with. I sure did not run the pack low that was puffed up as Doug's house is only about two miles and the first week I got those I went less than 5 miles round trip and was running them in series for 12S and one of the packs puffed up. Please explain to me how that was my fault.

The bad cell in the 8.0 pack is my fault and what I did to this 10.0 pack is also my fault however it was far from being a new LiPo battery. The total distance traveled was less than 6 miles but the chain was too tight.

We all know that a new LiPo pack would have held up and even 3 - 10 AH SLAs would have gone farther than that.

I am not stating that I did not screw up because I did I am simply stating that I want to run better higher quality batteries that do not become destroyed and dangerous if they are run low. I do not go on long trips and most round trips for me are 3 to 6 miles at 10 to 15 mph.

If these clear creek batteries are not as good as SLAs then I do not want them. I always thought LIFEPO4 was an upgrade from cheap LiPo. I searched thru about 90 pages to find the link on these but only found a picture of them. Someone said that they are the best battery I can get. Please let me know and post a link to where I can order them if in fact they are that great. Thanks.

LC out.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Nov 03, 2017 10:11 pm

So what are they. The link was only a pic?
The best LiFePo is A123 but very hard to find new and expensive.
LiFePo is also destroyed if you discharge them too low. Yes they are more safe than liPo but they can also cause a fire. Not like a LiPo but still can.


Dan

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Nov 04, 2017 2:02 am

I am not sure. I think DA or Sunder posted them but not sure which one.

I know DA posted a decent 36 volt pack a few pages ago for around $35 dollars with a BMS. Two were recommended as I recall so if still available I could order two.

I still might order the Full River cells this winter as a large high capacity pack like five rows of 12 cells would be 27 AH and might go 50 miles at 15 mph if not a lot of hills.

DA has built many batteries from cells. My questions to him. Are those FULL RIVER cells good enough to build a battery which will go at least 40 miles (average amount of hills) at 15 mph. or 50 miles no hills flat.

No full throttle just 15 mph steady and 10 up hills.

If not then they are not worth the trouble. Also if SLAs are only 1/2 Ah of other batteries why are they rated so high and how do the Full River cells compare to the smaller cells in the 36 volt pack.

Dan you are right about being too big. But for 40 or 50 miles it would be worth it. For around town under 6 miles round trip those 36 volt deals DA posted are the way to go. I think he said they are equal to a 10 Ah SLA. What is not clear to me is that one SLA or three SLAs in series. New SLAs go quite a ways but that does not last long and cheap e bay LiPo packs are either defective or work until I destroy them but the pack I killed was not to far from retirement anyway. A decrease in power was noticed months ago during normal discharge from 4.18V to around 3.84 to 3.74.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SAMSUNG-18 ... SwSypY9Y7d


There is a new link for those. Only 4.4 Ah though. The FULL RIVER cells are 27 Ah but could build three approx. 9 Ah packs which would be smaller for around town.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 04, 2017 2:36 am

latecurtis wrote:
These 10.0 packs were garbage to begin with. I sure did not run the pack low that was puffed up as Doug's house is only about two miles and the first week I got those I went less than 5 miles round trip and was running them in series for 12S and one of the packs puffed up. Please explain to me how that was my fault.
Although recommended and warned, repeatedly, you did not check-monitor cell voltage, 1 cell went too low and puffed.
I must have told you a dozen times that you needed to use those voltage meter-alarm modules!
You claimed to have bought some ... but refused to use them! ... ???

"Needed" for LiFePO4 also ... if you want them to last ...
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Nov 04, 2017 3:10 am

I have never charged a LiPo pack without balance mode. The packs were fully balanced charged and checked with two external balancers before leaving the house. There was no low cell there was a defective cell as all the other cells were good and about 3.74 volts when returning from the trip.

Also the pack I just killed was my error in judgement. The chain was too tight and I was drinking and wanted to pig out and did not want to walk.

I still would like to know if the Full River cells are any good and how far will they go. I know the 36V packs with the BMS are good and most likly will order two and two chargers for them. Thanks.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 04, 2017 3:52 am

latecurtis wrote: Dan you are right about being too big. But for 40 or 50 miles it would be worth it. For around town under 6 miles round trip those 36 volt deals DA posted are the way to go. I think he said they are equal to a 10 Ah SLA. What is not clear to me is that one SLA or three SLAs in series. New SLAs go quite a ways but that does not last long and cheap e bay LiPo packs are either defective or work until I destroy them but the pack I killed was not to far from retirement anyway. A decrease in power was noticed months ago during normal discharge from 4.18V to around 3.84 to 3.74.
Wow ... I run my homemade LiPo packs for years, hundreds and hundreds of cycles, thousands and thousands of miles ... LiPo in black eZip pack at about 7000 miles so far and still going strong!
You abused your 10.0Ah LiPos badly enough to destroy them, in what, 1st in 1 cycle then the other in a dozen cycles?

1x 36V 4.4Ah Samsung Li-ion w/BMS, in your typical abuse, will outperform and outlast 36V 10Ah SLA.
But performance and lifespan will suffer.
2x, parallel, 36V 4.4Ah Samsung Li-ion w/BMS, 36V 8.8Ah, might survive awhile!
My builds with these cells are:
36V 17.6Ah (4x paralleled)
25.9V 26.4Ah (resorted as 7s12p)
With moderated 10-90% charge cycles, thousands of cycles and many years of good performance is expected!

At your seeming frequency of use and anticipated "No full throttle just 15 mph steady and 10 up hills" usage. 1 similar, "proper", build could last you your lifetime!
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Nov 04, 2017 7:33 am

OK. I think I got it now.

Just because LiPos are rated for high discharge like 20 or 30C That can only happen for a very limited time. Also since those Full River packs are low discharge like 2C I will need a much larger pack to power a 48V 1,500 watt hub motor to 60 volts and 1,875 watts and 37 mph.

For 15 mph 60 cells lined up in five rows of 12 each will be 36V and 27Ah and go 50 miles. For 37 mph and 20 miles and 60 volts I will need rows of 20. How many rows of 20 would it take to do 37 mph at 2C discharge ?

It may not be worth building a pack that large. One box of 60 will do 36V and 15 mph so I guess I could invest in three 6S - 12.0 Multi-stars and run those for 37 mph but they would still be limited to only two or three miles without damage to the three 12S LiPos but if I ran three 20.0 - 6S packs I would be able to go 5 miles at 37 mph without damage. Is that what I have been missing ? Please let me know.

I also have a hypothetical question regarding a dual motor set up. I know I have been told over and over that a powerful front motor is dangerous and can spin out as the wheel will spin faster then the rear wheel and there is more weight in the rear.

Also as a rule the higher the voltage the greater the power and speed. However I can break both rules. An 1,800 watt brushless motor on the rear geared for 42 mph at 4,500 rpm and a same exact brushless motor on the front but running 24 volts and 900 watts but geared for 40 mph. Two mph slower than the rear motor causing the rear wheel to spin faster than the front and the front kind of helping the rear wheel but reducing the chance of the front wheel spinning out by a large margin.

Total power would be more than enough to achieve 40 mph at 2,700 watts but 42 mph would be impossible as there would no longer be any support from the front motor. I can live with 40 mph I guess. It should be an animal going up hills. Also no 60 volt controller would be needed so two boxes of 60 cells would be split up to do a 48 volt pack and a 24 volt pack. I already have a 24 volt controller Dan sent me which is brushless so all I would need is a 48 volt brushless controller. The 48 volt pack would be 80 cells and the 24 volt 40 cells.

That is a lot of cells. Three 20.0 - 6S LiPos would be a much better choice. Two in series for the rear motor and the third powering the front motor. It would also be much lighter so the fact is LiPo is better than LiPo4. However 10 times as dangerous.

That could also be why the 20" dual motor cargo bike handles so well. two 24 volt controllers and the motor on the rear is geared for 21.5 mph and the motor on the front is geared for 20.5 mph I think.
The fact is two motors and two controllers sharing the load is more efficient and better heat dissipation and a lower discharge rate as there are two sets of batteries.

Dan did mention that chain drives are dangerous because the chain can pop off. However I ran the Currie when I originally installed the first Unite motor for two years without the chain falling off. I think the big problem I have been having with chain drives is due to spoke sprockets. They put tension on the spokes eventually causing the wheel to spin crooked. Also the large #420 chain can rub against the tire or the bike frame. 8mm chain is a litter wider and stronger than #25 chain right. That could be the way to go.

A sprocket bolted to the freewheel is a lot better and replacing the freewheel with a freewheel clutch and bolting on an 8 mm sprocket and running a 10 tooth motor and 8mm chain should be a great improvment to any spoke sprocket and last at least 10 times longer.

Does that sound right because maybe I wont go with a hub motor. Bruno from Alien power could do custom power and gearing for two hub motors but for how much more $$$. The 1,800 watt brushless motors are about $120 each. Please let me know if what I said is correct because I cant decide what my next build will be. The Haro V3 with a rear hub motor : or a 24" dual motor race bike. Please let me know.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 04, 2017 9:09 am

.
.......
Alcohol induced regression?
.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
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There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Nov 04, 2017 8:05 pm

http://prntscr.com/h6eixb

http://prntscr.com/h6em63

Well I know I am smarter than THAT guy. He does not even know how to run two motors and controllers off a single thumb throttle. :lol: :lol:

There are so many all wheel drive bikes out there it is mind boggling. YouTube has hundreds of videos on them at various power levels. I could be wrong about the gearing as if the rear wheel spins faster than the front it could create front wheel lift so it could be the other way around. The front wheel may be geared higher than the rear.

clear advantages of dual motor all wheel drive ebikes.

1. less stress on motor and batteries as two separate controllers and batteries share the load.

2. 1/2 the discharge rate to obtain the same power and speed.

3. If one motor or controller fails for some reason you can still make it home on flat ground at approx. 10 mph without damage to the single motor but would need to walk up ANY type of hills or incline.

4. Two motors will take a hill easier if not geared too high.

5. more controller options. For 40 to 50 mph a minimum of 60 to 72 volts to a single motor may be needed. Two 48 volt controllers and battery packs can achieve the same task.

One disadvantage of dual motor set up.

Do not let anyone else ride it because if they are not used to the throttle they may get hurt. I admit there is a good chance of spinning the front wheel upon take off if a very light touch is not used when engaging the throttle.

Two throttles could be used with specific instructions to NOT use the one powering the front wheel until at least 20 mph is achieved but why in the hell would I want someone riding my bike in the first place. Everyone wants me to build them one. I tell them to order a hub motor kit and build it themselves or go here on this forum and learn like I did.

I can not think of anything else except for extra weight but double the power cancels out extra weight so I am not counting that. I don't have to haul bikes upstairs now each time I ride them.

The higher gearing the more speed though and the lower gearing the greater the torque. It is a very interesting question and I will have to recalculate the current gearing on the 20" dual motor bike. I am not 100% sure if the front motor is geared lower than the rear.

I think you all know me well enough to know I will be building another dual motor set up. I am thinking about 3,600 watts total for 45 mph gearing. Both 1,800 brushless motors at 48 volts.

My big question is should I gear one motor 1 or 2 mph lower than the other and if so which one to reduce spin out on the front wheel. Please let me know.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Nov 07, 2017 7:57 pm

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. 36 volt packs.

I want to order those 36 volt packs with the built in BMS. They are rated at 4.4 AH but was told they are equal to 10 Ah of SLA.

I know two in parallel were recommended however I only have the money for one and a charger as $50 is my limit for now. Next month (December) I can order the second pack.

I do not wish to destroy the pack so I need to know exactly how far I can safely go with a single 4.4 Ah pack. Wall Mart and Hanna-ford grocery store are about 1 mile so two miles round trip.

However downtown and Doug's is about 5 miles round trip and hills coming back. With the variable controller I could run the 6S -8.0 LiPo pack to get there then switch to 36 volt 4.4 Ah to get home as 36 volts would take the hills better than 22 volts. Is the 4.4 Ah 36 volt pack capable of traveling 2 to 3 miles with a couple of small hills to go up. Please let me know.

LC out.

PS. No. I am not building a 3600 watt dual bike. I want 24" tires so those 4500 rpm motors will not work. I will have to stick with the 3,000 watt Unite motors and 2,000 watts total power or look for different motor options. Also my current budget does not allow for any new builds until the first of the year (January) so right now new batteries are more important.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by wturber » Nov 07, 2017 8:36 pm

I think you will be disappointed. Assuming the packs have the LG (lavender) MF1 cells, the standard discharge for one cell is .2C or 430ma. The packs are 2P, so double that to .4C and 830ma if you want to pull the full 4.4 Ah from the pack. Any greater draw and you'll probably get less than the full capacity.

20A is technically the max draw for a pack. But that should only be done in short bursts, is not efficient and puts a strain on the cells. That's why I run as many as I can - currently seven and I plan on using 8 long term when I can find time to put together a decent case. I want the batteries to last. My max amp draw on the batteries is about 35 amps, or 5 amps per pack - 1/4 their max discharge rate.

The least number I've run is two packs in parallel and the hills I was climbing certainly strained them because they didn't have the "oomph" of the typical 5 packs I had been using at the time. If I have time, I'll do a test ride tonight with one pack and see what happens. But I think running one pack is probably not a good idea unless you are super gentle with the throttle. Maybe the WalMart trip would be OK.

If you want to be "safe" you'll monitor voltage drop, amp or watts drawn, and check the battery temperature.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Nov 07, 2017 9:26 pm

Thank you for the information.

I wish I could scrape together enough to afford two in parallel.

I have some old LiPos I can probably run until next month I guess but it takes forever to charge them as each one needs to be charged separate.

36 volts is definitely the way to go for everyday use. I am a big guy at about 250 pounds so 22V of LiPo and 500 watts is a strain on 22V LiPo. 5.0 packs.

1 horsepower , 750 watts and 36 volts works much better climbing hills. Thanks.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 07, 2017 9:38 pm

2 packs of the Samsung ICR18650-22p = 40A continuous ...
40 Amps for about 12 minutes.
3 or 4 is more reasonable, if you want them to last a fair amount of time.
There is no set range, varies by speed, terrain, acceleration etc.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Nov 07, 2017 11:02 pm

OK.

I know if 4.4 Ah of those are equal to or better than 10 Ah of SLA then they are a super good deal as three new 10 Ah SLAs will do five miles with at least two moderate hills round trip at approx. 15 mph on flat and 10 mph up hills. I know this from experience when I was running the Currie at 36 volts and 750 watts.

I will order one for now and a charger and will limit their distance to about 1/2 of that to be on the safe side which would be 2- 1/2 miles with one or two small hills. Since I have a 8.0 - 6S LiPo pack that is still good and NOT destroyed I can use that for 5 mile round trips to get to the destination then switch over to the new 36 volt - 4.4 Ah pack to return back home.

Then next month I will order a second and if they work ok with no problems I may order a third and a fourth for that price. Or I will stop at two and order the box of 60 Full River cells. I am not sure but I would really like to build a big pack like DA does from LIFEPO4 cells. A pack that will allow a 50 mile round trip or 50 miles one way and then recharge to return back home. I will just need a wiring diagram which can show me how to hook up a BMS to a large LIFEPO4 pack with 60 cells in parallel series.

I do not have speakers so a youtube video is not what I am looking for. What I want to see is a diagram similar to mine with color coded wires going from the BMS to the LIFEPO4 pack. My diagrams clearly show that I know how to hook up a LIFEPO4 pack with 60 cells. The BMS is all I need to learn now to build one and the materials are not expensive.

There is one of my diagrams with the parallel series wiring. Now I just need to know how to hook up a BMS. I like using bullet connectors which will go from the BMS to the charger and also from the custom built pack to the controller. Does the BMS stay hooked up to the pack when running the pack. It seems like those 36 volt packs do by looking at them. Thanks.



LC out.

PS. I found it but that is insane. For a 60 cell pack I will need 60 wires going to all the positive battery terminals. That is a lot of wires. Is that my only option ? If so I have two 6S LiPo chargers which will charge LIFEPO4.

If I were to build 10 - 6S packs from the box of 60 Full River cells I could charge them two at a time. I need to know my options. I would rather use the chargers I already own. If a 6S pack is not enough voltage it is simple to run two packs in series for 12S LIFEPO4. it is also simple to parallel series them by hooking each pack to bullet connectors which I am used to dealing with. Please let me know.

OK The bottom picture shows how I think it would be wired. I never charged LIFEPO4 with either of my LiPo chargers and I do not know if LIFEPO4 packs use balance connectors but it seems that the LiPo charger in balance mode is the same thing as a BMS so will balance plugs work to balance charge 6S LIFEPO4 the same way it will do for for 6S - LiPo ????

60 cells will make 10 - 6S LIFEPO4 packs and I have two 6S chargers so I can charge them all and use four at a time in parallel series for two 12S packs. I will have 12 cells left over but if I buy a second box I can build 3 more 12S packs. 120 / 24 = 12 :D :D :D :D :D Please let me know if it will work.
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by wturber » Nov 08, 2017 1:55 am

OK. I didn't quite get the pack fully charged, but it did get up to 42v, so it was nearly fully charged. Since I didn't want to fry the pack, I decided that I'd limit the power draw by using the PAS system exclusively. No manual throttle. I set the LCD PAS to level 3 and watched my voltage.

On my bike, I run the battery output through a voltage booster so the system typically sees a nearly constant 54v. But the LCD does have a voltage readout and under full throttle, the voltage will sag as I encounter the limits of the booster. I know from experience that the booster can draw up to 35A from the battery pack. I didn't want that to happen since 20A is the max for one pack. So I watched the LCD voltage for dips. If it dipped significantly, I'd stop.

Most streets where I live are inclined. My plan was to ride down to a nearby street that was fairly flat and see how things felt. I was going to turn around at the corner and ride back. I went up a moderate hill for about a block to make sure the bike could go up a hill, and then headed down to the flat road. The bike seemed happy to do 20mph on the flat. Things were going so well I extended the ride to the corner of the nearest grocery store. Of course, this was the easy part - mostly downhill and flats. The mostly uphill return would be the real test.

On the way back, I stayed with PAS level 3 and simply shifted into lower gears to make sure I was helping the motor and battery a bit. All in all, it went far better than I expected. The trick was to simply ride more conservatively and to stay out of the hand throttle.

Total trip distance was 3.1 miles. Average speed was 15.38 mph. Total elevation change was about 200 ft. I ran my 12v sub-system to run my taillights and feed juice to my action camera. I used a separate headlight.
My meter reported the following for the trip:
1.429 Ah used
485 Wp
13.68 Ap
34.45 V minimum
38.12 V end pack voltage

The pack was noticably warm when I finished. I'd guess in the 100 deg. F range. Not hot, but more than mildly warm. Hotter than any of my batteries ever get. So this was clearly demanding a lot from the pack, but probably not so much as to overload or damage it

I tracked the little trip with GPS. You can get all the details here:
http://www.sportstracklive.com/track/de ... e-/2376282

So my take is that if you ride flats or moderate hills, limit yourself to 20-22mph on the flats and 14-17mph on the hills, you could probably get better than six miles out of a single pack. You will be working the pack hard though. I'd still recommend a minimum of two and preferably three or four.

BTW, it was nice having such a (relatively) light e-bike. I need to put together a light, "around town" pack for short trips in town. I might even shift to using a four pack for my commute and simply recharge while at work.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
7 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1175 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=90369

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