new eZip motor

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DrkAngel   10 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Jul 09 2018 1:00am

latecurtis wrote:
Jul 08 2018 10:29pm
I will then order two 10.0 - 6S Multi stars instead of the cheaper e bay brands and should be good and ready for the new dual motor build.
You can destroy expensive LiPo just as easily as cheap LiPo!
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Jul 09 2018 2:05am

I've used multistars for both eBike and eMotorscooter.

At 1C, they're brilliant and lasted a long time.

At 3C, they get warm, and after 18 months, they're almost dead. That's with a 10C rating.

I guess there's a big difference between "can do" and "can do with a long life".
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: Still on grid, but with LTO batteries and 3kw LF inverter...

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by tomjasz » Jul 09 2018 2:39am

Cool, LC adds another LiPo fire thread... Jeebus, stay safe fella. These aren’t li ion....
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by wturber » Jul 09 2018 4:41am

OK. I'm making an exception and posting ... partly because LC deleted some of his meaner comments. Apparently AlarmHookup has some more of those hoverboard packs. Note that the shipping is listed as free.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BALANCING-SCOO ... SwcgNZArTx
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Jul 09 2018 8:18am

The Samsung with the full size (not side mount) BMS seem excellent. - the type I kept for pack use.
No complaints and seem to maintain near perfect natural balance with basic bulk charging, (cells stayed within 1/100V at full and "empty"), after dozens and dozens of cycles!

Not as good a price as previously, but alarmhookup sold out thousands of these batteries, too quickly!, last time.

These might be the idiot proof batteries LC needs?
... if only he parallels in sufficient quantity to help them last ...

He can't claim poverty!
2 -22.2V 10Ah Multistar (444wh) = $240 ?
4 - 37V 4.4Ah Samsung (651.2wh) = $180 !
Last edited by DrkAngel on Jul 09 2018 5:19pm, edited 1 time in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - November 2018

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by wturber » Jul 09 2018 1:54pm

DrkAngel wrote:
Jul 09 2018 8:18am
Not as good a price as previously, but alarmhookup sold out thousands of these batteries, too quickly!, last time.

These might be the idiot proof batteries LC needs?
... if only he parallels in sufficient quantity to help them last ...

He can't claim poverty!
2 -22.2V 10Ah Multistar (444wh) = $240 ?
4 - 37V 4.4Ah Samsung (651.2Ah) = $180 !
That's why I posted. Just a suggestion. They work out to 3.5 Wh/dollar which is pretty much the beginning price for a good deal on batteries. Not a GREAT deal, but still good.

I'm doing 32 mile daily round trip commutes using eight of these. Four packs should be fine for LC. With that he could establish a reliable bike for transportation needs. Once established, he could then experiment with other stuff and not have the consequences be quite so dire if/when things go wrong.

I've been bulk charging these for about 2,800 miles now and all seem fine so far. Though I should do another balance check this weekend. Haven't done that in a while now.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
8 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1000 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=90369

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jul 09 2018 5:40pm

IMG_3694.JPG
This will not work. Maybe the little magnets could be good for magic tricks. If a few magnets separate they will travel about a foot or more to get back to the rest. :lol:

I am heading to take out $1,000. $650 will go for rent. I can afford at least 2 of those packs. Not sure about four. I have to see how much is left in the accounts after I take the $1,000 out. Thank you very much Wtuber. I would have not saw them if you did not post them.

You guys are AWSOME :D
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Jul 09 2018 7:53pm

Splurge on one of these:

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Canada-LED-Dual- ... SwfRdZFXZr

Save yourself a lot of time, money and us a lot of frustration.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: Still on grid, but with LTO batteries and 3kw LF inverter...

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jul 09 2018 9:34pm

I'm doing 32 mile daily round trip commutes using eight of these. Four packs should be fine for LC. With that he could establish a reliable bike for transportation needs. Once established, he could then experiment with other stuff and not have the consequences be quite so dire if/when things go wrong.
samsung.png
Splurge on one of these:
already ordered a 60 watt iron.
iron.png
I only need a little solder in the center of each hole. I have three - 30 watt soldering irons that don't get hot enough to melt the solder. I used to have a 60 watt which did the trick but it stopped working.
solder.JPG
Thanks again.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Jul 09 2018 10:10pm

Alright... Why?

If you are going to solder to the cell, why not solder directly to the cell instead of adding another connector, which means another failure point?

Who are you planning to blame when a dry joint causes problems, up to and including a wire coming off? The soldering iron manufacturer? The solder manufacturer? The flux manufacturer? The cable manufacturer? Or the lug manufacturer? Or maybe you can stretch it, and blame the cell manufacturer, dealing in death.

I really don't know why you feel you have to do things the unconventional way. There is no pride in making a bad solution work badly. Nor is there any sense of achievement in achieving the same thing in a more difficult way.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: Still on grid, but with LTO batteries and 3kw LF inverter...

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Jul 09 2018 10:27pm

Wow ... bought another 60w soldering iron.
Did you remember to get one with the heavy tip that you need, this time? ... Nope!
Got the thin pointed tip for precision, light gauge soldering, again.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - November 2018

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

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latecurtis   1 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jul 09 2018 10:55pm

Wow ... bought another 60w soldering iron.
Did you remember to get one with the heavy tip that you need, this time? ... Nope!
Got the thin pointed tip for precision, light gauge soldering, again.
I can order the separate tip/tips I will need. I saw a lot of them under $5 but not sure which one will fit the iron. Can you post a link ?

If you are going to solder to the cell, why not solder directly to the cell instead of adding another connector, which means another failure point?
I was hoping for a little solder inside the round part of the connector. I really do not want to get any solder on the outside part that can short out the cell. I also do not want to get any in the four vent holes where the heat comes out. The plastic caps prevent heat from escaping which was a poor design for these cells with the heat vents.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Jul 09 2018 11:35pm

That's a top cap, to provide an elevated surface for contact. It doesn't let heat out. Heat radiates, conducts or convects. It doesn't... Vent, or whatever else you think the holes are for.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: Still on grid, but with LTO batteries and 3kw LF inverter...

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jul 10 2018 12:30am

Ok.

I still do not want to short out the cell doing a poor sloppy job soldering. I could just solder a wire to the top of the cell but am thinking with the round terminal I got less chance getting hot solder on the edge shorting out the cell.

The terminal will be crimped and the wire soldered to the connector as well as the battery terminal. I can practice on junk 18650 cells first before I do the LG cells.

If I do manage to build two 10S packs with 20 LG cells each I still may be able to hook them in parallel with the SONA packs.

Wtuber said that the 4 genuine Samsung packs I just ordered should last me a long time. At 4.4 Ah those will be 17.6 Ah total.

If the SONA packs will work in parallel with the LG packs I am building it will be 36 volts and 16 Ah.

If I am not mistaken the 800 watt hub motor did NOT work with the SONA packs but did work with three SLAs. The Schwinn with the 1,000 watt hub motor also worked with three SLAs but may not work with any 36V Lithium packs either.

Dan sent me a 36 volt brushless controller awhile back as well as a 36 volt lithium charger. I will need to put bullets on the charger and controller. I hope it won't be too many amps to charge the four Samsung packs I ordered. Please let me know. Thanks.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Jul 10 2018 2:29am

Soldering 18650s are tough at the best of times, which is why almost everyone spot welds them instead. (Or buys batteries with soldering tabs like the below:)

Image

If you have a look at one of the cells here:

Image

The tiny strip above the ridge is all considered part of the positive terminal. Everything below the ridge is the negative. With only a small separation and a hot iron, burning through the PVC insulator and shorting the cell out wouldn't be that hard.

Good luck with it. But mark my words, I reckon you'll be back here after you receive your soldering iron complaining about how hard it is.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: Still on grid, but with LTO batteries and 3kw LF inverter...

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jul 10 2018 3:21am

solder1.jpg
I guess if I were to scrape off the tip it would work better. :oops: I still want the 60 watt though. i did that with the side of the tip. Much easier to melt the solder right inside the round terminal as it is held in place. Let it fill the hole and put the end of the tip dead center of the drop.

I will attempt a video on the next cell. I have a few practice cells so if I pull it off it will be much easier with the new iron.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut89dTnYyHs
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Jul 10 2018 3:41am

The rounded edges of that blob tells me adhesion is poor. Solder is meant to wet to the surface its being soldered to.

How poor, I can't tell.

Also, is that a remnant of a tab that has been cut off on the cell? That would make it a lot easier to solder, as tabs are designed to take solder.

See image below for what I mean by wetting:

Image
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: Still on grid, but with LTO batteries and 3kw LF inverter...

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jul 10 2018 3:54am

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns.



Did you watch the video ?

I do NOT have the 60 watt iron yet. I am using a 30 watt.

Big difference as I owned two.

I know that the tip of the 60 watt will glow red. The hole will be filled much easier with the 60 watt and it will make my solder joint like the one you like in your picture.

I can always cover with JB weld after but see no sense in it. Lets test the strength of the solder joint now.

I will need to sand the LG cell tops for better stick ability or what ? I tried flux on the first and it melted. I did not want it running down the sides with melted solder following and shorting out the cell.

I think with the new iron I can pull it off but help is appreciated. Tips will help me and not talking about tips for the iron. If you shoot a video that would be great. Thanks.

LC out.

I can solder to those cells. What should I use to replace the insulation I melted on the edge. I did see tiny little sparks. Where did you see the negative ? Can you windows paint it and point a black arrow to it. I think if I place a washer over the cell the exact size required I can avoid doing that in the future.

JB weld high temperature can fix it I guess unless you have something better in mind. Please let me know. I will build my own packs and perhaps make a modest profit assembling for Novice e bike enthusiasts. Thanks.

LC out.
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IMG_3718.JPG
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jul 10 2018 5:40am

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdqySWx ... e=youtu.be
Alright... Why?

If you are going to solder to the cell, why not solder directly to the cell instead of adding another connector, which means another failure point?
There you go.

Thank you. You were right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97FhauH1J58

Good video.

I dedicate that video to the people here on ES that are = or > than my intelligence. It is a privilege to be able to learn. I have always pursued science and technology. . I like a great human brain. (people with intelligence) It makes sense. Please check it out. I did.

I am not the smartest person on planet earth however if you are able to understand thru language You can learn from them and become smarter. I learn from all of you and it makes me smarter each day I log in.

Thanks.

LC out.
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jul 10 2018 4:52pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an9-i23mGqc&t=41s

Black liquid electrical tape.

The beginning part of the video. He used it for the thermal imaging camera to get rid of reflection.

Can I use it for this ?
IMG_3715.JPG
Please let me know. I am learning to solder but need the 60 watt iron. The small tip will work for me as I can melt solder from the end of the tip and not the side like I do now. Please let me know. Thanks.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Jul 10 2018 5:43pm

latecurtis wrote:
Jul 10 2018 4:52pm

Please let me know. I am learning to solder but need the 60 watt iron. The small tip will work for me as I can melt solder from the end of the tip and not the side like I do now. Please let me know. Thanks.
Explained to you, many times, small tip will not transfer sufficient heat to perform a proper solder connection for your applications!

2nd point
Your present method melts through the protective top corners and will likely short the cell on the iron ... ooh ... might get enough heat that way! ? ... if you don't cook the cell.
Last edited by DrkAngel on Jul 10 2018 9:36pm, edited 1 time in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - November 2018

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

Endless Sphere Wiki - Lost?

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Jul 10 2018 6:57pm

Even though your solder is still not wetting properly (DA is right, it's more the big tip than the total number of watts), I'm impressed with the soldering job you've done.

Technically you need to heat the top cap, and melt the solder on the top cap to get proper wetting. Heating the solder, and letting it run down to the top cap seems to be "working", but not to the ideal standard. However, to do this, you need to be fast. Because the top cap will conduct heat down to the battery itself. It does with either method, but direct heating of the cap obviously transfers more heat, but ideally for a shorter period, doing less damage to the cell.

If you trust your fine motor skills, I would even consider having a shallow dish of water nearby, and as soon as the solder has set, dipping just the solder and wire in the water to cool it instantly, without shorting the cell. Unfortunately, as you saw from the diagram above, you really only have a couple mm to play with, so if your hands are shaky, don't take the risk.

I would recommend you get a 45* chiselled tip, hold the cell in a solid clamp or vice, and simply not risk the shrink wrap. If you must continue with the method you are using, get the right sized washer, hold it in place with blu-tak or another non-permanent adhesive, and remove it after soldering (Obviously before connecting the other end of the wire, otherwise you'll never get it off).
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: Still on grid, but with LTO batteries and 3kw LF inverter...

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jul 10 2018 7:31pm

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire burns. - three dual motor electric bicycles. :mrgreen:

Thank you.

I will wait for the new soldering iron before proceeding further with that. Then will shoot a video when I solder with it.

They already shipped out the four Genuine 4.4 Ah Samsung packs. I would order four more next month however will need to solve my 48 volt issues. The Schwinn with the hub motor and the 800 watt 20" hub motor both work better with 48 volts or 12S.

I think the 36 volt brushless controller DAN sent me is only 500 watts. That could work for the front of a 20" bike with the 20" hub motor if I were to put the 48V 1,000 watt Unite motor on the rear with a 36 volt controller and run it at 750 watts.

The set up would in fact benefit both motors and controllers as well as the batteries as they would all be sharing the work load instead of one motor and controller. Doug and I are looking hard at a 24" frame for the build and measuring for pedal clearance.

I am not just building a second dual motor build but am considering a 26" geared hub motor for the front of the Currie similar or the same as the one which is on easy street. The 700c hybrid. It would be much more efficient than the 750 watt gear reduction motor. However with the plastic gears in the geared hub motor it would be a big strain up big hills. That is where the one horsepower on the rear and 1/4 horsepower to 1/3 horsepower from pedal assist could come into the equation. Thanks.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Jul 11 2018 1:28am

latecurtis wrote:
Jul 10 2018 5:40am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97FhauH1J58

Good video.

I dedicate that video to the people here on ES that are = or > than my intelligence.
I always find quantum physics fascinating, but I find many people don't understand its role in science and philosophy. In fact, many people don't even understand it at all. I don't claim to understand much of it, but enough to call BS when I see it.

Many people don't seem to understand that mathematics is a language to describe observed phenomena, and physics is applied mathematics. Nobody ever seems to forget that at a macro level, but it seems to be forgotten at the quantum level. What I mean by that, is that if I said I had 3 apples, and you gave me 3 more, everyone understands that addition represents the reality that I have 6 apples now, not that mathematics causes me to have 6 apples.

However, at the quantum level, that seems to be forgotten. The universe *is* mathematics. It's not, it can just be accurately described by mathematics. The benefit of mathematics, especially at the quantum level, is that it enables us to predict and manipulate reality. The same way as understanding basic arithmetic allows us to say "If I need 6 apples and already have 3, I know how many more I need to pick to get the desired number".

One day, quantum maths may let us defy gravity, travel through time, or faster than light through space.

Anyway, what I am getting at, is take these types of videos with a grain of salt. They are enjoyable, but don't accept the conclusions they give you as gospel truth. Firstly, I note that the presenter's manner can be a bit puerile and misrepresent the alternative evidence, but second, science is useless, unless it answers a "so what".

So what if we are living in a simulation? Or is it just that base reality has pixelisation? Are we an extrusion/projection from a 10 or 11 dimension universe like the old string theory? Or are we a terrarium created by God?

A philosophical joke told to me once, helped me understand the role of science more: A young boy asks his dad "Why is the kettle boiling?" The dad puts down his paper, pushes up his glasses and says "Well son, when the methane coming out of the stove combines with the oxygen in the air, energy is released from moving molecules from a more energetic state to a less energetic state. This energy is translated into motion at the molecular level. This causes the particles to collide first with the metal at the bottom of the kettle, then into the water inside the kettle. As the water gets more and more energetic, it breaks the inter molecular bonds, and escapes as steam, pushing through the spout and causing the kettle to whistle".

Not understanding the answer, the little boy asks his mother the same question. She replies simply "Because I'm making a pot of tea for all of us."

Quantum physics can answer the how, but it never answers a why, or what does that mean.
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latecurtis   1 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jul 11 2018 2:57am

The black holes are the most fascinating. Where matter is crushed into a cosmic soup it was refereed to. My theory should be as good as Matrix theory as no way to prove either.

Latecurtis theory of the black holes and expanding universe.

https://physics.stackexchange.com/quest ... erposition

I believe superposition could explain the creation of dark matter uniformly in the Universe and superposition the cosmic soup created in the black hole is distributed through the Universe and is dark matter which has opposite effect with gravity than matter.

Black holes formed trillions of years ago and soon after the universe expanded faster instead of slowing down.

The force of the expansion has to come from somewhere and dark matter is everywhere and that had to come from somewhere and matter crushed into a black hole also has to go somewhere. Some believe another universe. I am not so sure. Thanks.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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