new eZip motor

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by tomjasz » Sep 20 2018 11:39pm

$33 FFS they’re not thatcheapay otherway.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Sep 21 2018 7:50am

tomjasz wrote:
Sep 20 2018 11:39pm
$33 FFS they’re not thatcheapay otherway.
Accepted 4@ $25 got 1 fair, 2 poor, 1 total garbage.
3 replacements - 1 poor, 2 garbage.
See - "Bargain" 36V 4.4Ah Hoverboard Batteries
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Sep 21 2018 8:46pm

Received the 4 packs.
All labeled 36V 4.4Ah
2 labeled with Samsung, other 2 of no known manufacturer.
Only 1 charges to near 4.20V!
Discharged all below 3.40V and doing metered charge on each. Will have results tomorrow.
Have not broken open double shrink wrapped packs yet, will after charge results tomorrow.
The two SONA packs never charged past 4.05V.

The four genuine Samsung packs I ordered , 3 charge to 4.04V and one was only 3.97V.

The two LG packs I built WITH a BMS also charge to 4.05V I think. Not sure I will check it when I charge them again.

All the packs seem to run ok except the low Samsung pack which shut down < 2 miles during normal discharge 10 to 12 mph and was on a small hill when it quit. I have not ran it since and was thinking about taking it apart and replacing the bad cells.

I have been kind of lazy lately and not been doing much of anything. I did work on the push cart for a few hours last night. Thanks.

LC out.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Sep 28 2018 3:11pm

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. The importance of a BMS.

I have been running the Currie a lot and my LG packs 10S @ 4P. I have had no problems with them. In fact if I did not have a BMS they would probably be totally destroyed. They have a blue negative charge wire which hooks to the negative from the charger and the positive for charging is the same as run.

I forgot about the blue wire and was charging with the red and black instead of red and blue. Then last night when I got downtown I noticed one of the plugs were unplugged from the parallel cables so I was running 2P instead of 4P and performance wise I did not notice any difference.

I do not take it up any steep hills though after the big disaster with the VRUZEND plastic kit running at 12S - 2P. I melted plastic and totally destroyed a few of the cells. I do not trust the discharge rating on those so wont do any steep hills.

I only had to charge the one 2P pack last night because the other was at full charge. I combined them for 4P after being on the charger for at least 5 hours. I did not have my multi-meter but did not see any sparks when combining them. It rode home with plenty of power and is currently on the charger red and blue.

I would buy another BMS like those in a heartbeat and now know how to hook them up and solder the wires. I would love to build a 16S - 4P pack. Actually two - 16S - 4P packs in parallel would be awsome and easilly get me 40+ mph with a 1,800 watt 48V brushless motor and probably close to 40 mph with a 48V - 1,500 watt rear hub motor kit.

I doubt I will have the money until next summer however would love to get another of those e bikeling 500 watt hub motor for a 26" wheel. Actually I would love to have two for my dual suspension mountain bike and two more for my Haro V3. The only problem I have with my 700c hybrid that I have one of those motors on is the skinny tires. Useless for winter and is sitting in storage with a flat on the motor front wheel.

I refuse to buy another cheap tube from Wall- Mart and want at least a $50 puncture resistant tire and $20 tube. I just don't have the money right now and still trying to move so will probably keep riding the Currie and the 20" dual motor bike once in awhile. Thanks.

LC out
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Oct 01 2018 11:48pm

Been a while since I've been reading this thread but it seems like not much has happened.

Still struggling with batteries I see. Maybe you should save up and either get a high quality prebuilt one that you can't really abuse that easily, or build one out of really tough cells like LTO.

My progress has been slow as well. I have physically built the enclosures for my motorcycle battery, but still experimenting with clamping vs bolting the tabs together. By this stage, i had hoped to be test cycling the battery while waiting for my motor/controller.

Life's been busy again. Coworker went on extended leave and I have to do all his work as well. Seems like I run so close to the wire, anything can throw off my life.

Hope you're doing well
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Oct 03 2018 2:49pm

One of the 10S - 2P LG packs I built tested low at around 35 volts but the charger light was green indicating a full charge.

One of my solder joints failed. Normally I would consider this a total failure however there are two ways of looking at the situation and looking at it in a positive way the BMS I installed was a complete success.

I re soldered the cell and all cells in the pack are still in good condition. None are below 3.5 volts and all can be charged back to 4 volts and I can re-assemble the pack and hook the BMS back up and run them.

My question is how can a BMS know that a wire was unhooked to one of the cells ? If two cells are in parallel and both 4 volts if one cell is unhooked it would still read 4 volts. The only difference would be 1/2 capacity or Ah.

Is a BMS that smart that it can read the Ah of cells connected to it ? How is this possible. I am curious and am happy I finally listened and now use BMSs. Thanks and please post when you can.

LC out.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Oct 03 2018 6:25pm

No, it can't tell that one string is only half the capacity. However, when it discharges, that string will hit low voltage first. When it's charging, that string will hit high voltage first.

So it's not cutting off because one string fell apart. It's cutting off because that string is no longer behaving like the rest
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Oct 05 2018 2:49pm

It is a 2P. I built two 10S - 2P packs. I hooked them in parallel for 4P with parallel cables I built.

I fixed the cell and reassembled the one 2P pack and have been running them at 4P for three days now. My ol lady is in the hospital with phenomena. I have been running the Currie.

I run the 4P LG pack I built to get there about 2 miles and run the 6P Samsung packs back home. I hope she will come home soon. I got a heater for her room as the furnace is not working right now. Thanks.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Oct 05 2018 4:59pm

latecurtis wrote:
Oct 05 2018 2:49pm
It is a 2P. I built two 10S - 2P packs. I hooked them in parallel for 4P with parallel cables I built.

I fixed the cell and reassembled the one 2P pack and have been running them at 4P for three days now. My ol lady is in the hospital with phenomena. I have been running the Currie.

I run the 4P LG pack I built to get there about 2 miles and run the 6P Samsung packs back home. I hope she will come home soon. I got a heater for her room as the furnace is not working right now. Thanks.

LC out.
Sorry to here that. Hope she gets well soon.
How cold is it getting up north? They say it's gonna be in the 90's for another week or so. rain all next week too.

So have you tested the pack to see it's capacity? 2 miles isn't much.
I thought it was a 8ah plus pack. What are the cell voltages after the short run?
Longest ride since moving is 24 and that was like 10ah out of the 12s 16ah pack which is more like 14 now. Still seeing 2+ miles per AH. That's with constant pedaling, not heavy. Mild hills here but lots of stop and go.

Have seen a lot of Ebikes but haven't been able to meet anyone with one. Lots of bikes but that's all I have met.

Dan

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Oct 05 2018 10:44pm

Sorry to here that. Hope she gets well soon.
How cold is it getting up north? They say it's gonna be in the 90's for another week or so. rain all next week too.

So have you tested the pack to see it's capacity? 2 miles isn't much.
I thought it was a 8ah plus pack. What are the cell voltages after the short run?
Thank you. Hopefully she will come home tomorrow or the next day. It has been about 60 during the day lately but in the high 40s low 50s at night with high humidity.

The LG packs have good capacity. I just don't run any of my packs low. For Wall-Mart I use the SONA packs which are also 2P. The LG packs I think are greater capacity than the SONA packs. The LG cells were rated at 3,000 mAh but are approx. 2,500 mHh so at 4P about 10 AH compared to the 8Ah SONA packs. The Samsung packs are 6P so 12 Ah total. Voltage after 2 miles are 3.84 with the LG cells and 2.90 with the Samsung packs. The SONA is about 3.76V after 2 miles. I try not to run any packs low.

Also I make it a habit now to unhook the parallel cables on the LG packs I built after charging them together to make sure both 2P packs are the same and no cells became unhooked. I may check all the connections from time to time also. I have wire nuts on the connections and did not solder them as then it will be difficult to re-solder a wire to a terminal if it comes off. Thanks.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Oct 06 2018 12:29am

latecurtis wrote:
Oct 05 2018 10:44pm
The LG packs have good capacity. I just don't run any of my packs low. For Wall-Mart I use the SONA packs which are also 2P. The LG packs I think are greater capacity than the SONA packs. The LG cells were rated at 3,000 mAh but are approx. 2,500 mHh so at 4P about 10 AH compared to the 8Ah SONA packs. The Samsung packs are 6P so 12 Ah total. Voltage after 2 miles are 3.84 with the LG cells and 2.90 with the Samsung packs. The SONA is about 3.76V after 2 miles. I try not to run any packs low.
Samsung are good down to 3.40V
Sona, likely good down to 3.40V
LG good down to 3.20V
But, you mentioned packs charging to only 4.05.
Sounds like your meter is way off!
You "adjusted" it, before finally replacing the battery. Recommend you purchase another and compare-adjust back to proper setting. Or compare with someone else's meter and adjust.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Oct 06 2018 3:04am

Sounds like your meter is way off!
You "adjusted" it, before finally replacing the battery. Recommend you purchase another and compare-adjust back to proper setting. Or compare with someone else's meter and adjust.
Yes that is a very good possibility. I could test AA batteries.

I just did and I got 1.56 fluctuating to 1.57V on a brand new pack of Rayovac Fusion batteries.

It looks like we have a mystery here. I did two in series for 3.13V and 6.28V with all four in series.

I really do not understand why all my 36 volt lithium ion packs are testing so low. I can pull the old LiPo packs I got from Dan which are in storage and compare the voltage to my two balances. The only bike I got which will run it is my dual motor bike I built awhile ago with the chain drive on the front and rear. I have not rode it for about two years I think. Maybe it is time I blow the dust off of it.

Actually I can run those at 44V in series with the hub motor on the front of the last dual motor bike with the 20" hub motor on the front. It has two throttles not one like the first dual motor build however I was running the Samsung 6P pack on the front because the SONA packs did not run that 20" hub motor for some reason but only tried it once.

However.

The SONA packs seem to be dominated by the Samsung packs as the rear motor seems much less responsive at low throttle. I don't notice much power boost from the rear motor until 1/2 throttle or more however if I were to hook up the rear motor to my 48V controller with the 44V LiPo packs and keep the 36V 6P Samsung packs on the front hub motor I am betting I will see a big difference in power there. :D

It is easier to get to the new dual motor bike than the first one I built as it is up on top of a platform I built in storage with about 8 other bikes.

My question for DA is how would that look on a graph and discharge rate with both motors at full throttle going up a hill. Crane st. hill in Schenectady NY from the bottom. Please note that I already took the hill with the Currie 750 watt gear reduction motor at 36 volts and 750 watts but with very aggressive pedal assist and a rolling head start. I was running the 6P Samsung packs.

I will not be using pedal assist and will start from a dead stop with the two motors like I did with the first dual motor bike on Congress st. hill with 1,033 watts total. I will have a camera on board with a speedo. and Doug half way up the hill with his camera phone.

How about DA does a graph and then I will do a video and we will see how close he can get in theory to actual performance. As I remember gearing at 48V , 1,000 watts and 3,000 rpm for the Unite motor is 32.5 mph. I ran the 44V LiPos though. Not 4 SLAs. Somewhat over- geared but did 27 mph on the flat with a different 20" bike at 44V LiPo. Now add the power of the 48V 20" 800 watt hub motor running at 40 volts. Total wattage should be > 1,300. Thanks.

LC out

PS.

Doug said I can hook some dead AA batteries in parrallel and throw them at some hookers on the way up the hill before they pop and tell them to get their s h i t together. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Oct 06 2018 11:43am

New unused Alkaline are about 1.63V ÷ 1.57V = 1.038 x 4.05V = 4.20V
Looks like your 4.05V metering is actually very near 4.20V.

You should confirm voltage against other meter, then adjust.
Last edited by DrkAngel on Oct 06 2018 9:36pm, edited 1 time in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
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And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Oct 06 2018 4:47pm

Thanks. At least I know that all my packs are good.

I will be running them a lot as my ol lady is still in the hospital.

I am really glad that I bought and built them.

Hopefully I can do that video with the dual motor bike before the snow falls. Wont make it up the hill then. :cry:

Not doing anything though until my ol lady comes home. Thanks again.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by tomjasz » Oct 06 2018 9:07pm

My wife, my girlfriend, anything but “my old lady” shows some level of respect. Women deserve more.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Oct 07 2018 6:46am

DrkAngel wrote:
Oct 06 2018 11:43am
New unused Alkaline are about 1.63V ÷ 1.57V = 1.038 x 4.05V = 4.20V
Looks like your 4.05V metering is actually very near 4.20V.

You should confirm voltage against other meter, then adjust.
If you have a radioshack or similar near you, you can also buy a Zener diode for a few cents as a reference. Any voltage power source, an appropriate resistor, so you're not short circuiting, and then "read" the voltage at either end of the Zener like below: (they're using a 5.1v zener)

Image

Zeners are so repeatable they are commonly used as reference voltages for high precision devices.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Oct 07 2018 11:09pm

So have you tested the pack to see it's capacity? 2 miles isn't much.
I thought it was a 8ah plus pack. What are the cell voltages after the short run?
I google mapped the route doing several different ways but all 3.2 to 3.4 miles however I cut thru Union st. College and think about 3.3 miles. It is impossible to calculate with google maps. I have made the trip every day now except one so four round trips in five days. Now I can calculate battery usage accurately.

I needed to split up the route using two maps as there was not a route for the entire trip but two different alternate routes neither of them accurate. therefore calculating distance from my house to Summit towers and Summit towers to Ellis Hospital is the exact route I take except for the short cut thru Union College.

Not St. hill is very similar to Craig st. Maybe slightly steeper but Craig st. is slightly farther. Battery usage will be very similar for the trip there and back. Today I used the 6P Samsung packs there and the LG 4P packs for the return trip. Tomorrow I will use the 4P LG packs there and the 6P Samsung packs for the return trip.

Samsung 6P - 38.9V

LG 4P - 38.9V

WOW. The only difference when retesting was 39V for the Samsung packs but was fluctuating to 38.9V but stayed mostly at 39V.

I ran them about 10 mph to 15 mph and 3/4 throttle up the hills. I am very impressed with these packs. Surprisingly the 4P LG packs are almost the same capacity as the 6P Samsung packs.

Now that we know the route I will do the second test tomorrow night like I stated and reverse the order I run the packs running the 4P LG packs there and 6P Samsung for the return trip. I would like to see a graph of the efficiency of the Currie e zip chain drive and do a possible comparison to a high end factory e bike or DAs e bike to see how my build rates. Thanks.

LC out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCanHsa ... e=youtu.be
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Oct 09 2018 5:42pm

If you have a radioshack or similar near you, you can also buy a Zener diode for a few cents as a reference. Any voltage power source, an appropriate resistor, so you're not short circuiting, and then "read" the voltage at either end of the Zener like below: (they're using a 5.1v zener)
My wife, my girlfriend, anything but “my old lady” shows some level of respect. Women deserve more.
Yes. We are not married but together for 21 years. Definitely more than a girlfriend or a wife. Most marriages are not worth the paper they are printed on. Most not all are something that only benefits lawyers and the judicial system. Also based on religion which in itself is highly questionable that any of it is true.

Also couples on disability who are married generally get 300 bucks less a month in benefits. We barley get by now with the bills we are paying.

As far as I know Radio Shack is out of business. Mary got home from the hospital but think they let her out too soon. she is very lethargic. I am very concerned about that and dealing with it. I won't have much time for e bikes until she gets better. Thanks.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Oct 10 2018 11:33am

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns.

12:26 PM

Mary is sleeping and have been up for a few hours. I took a break and did not drink last night.

I have been playing pirates tides of fortune but got board. I found the old Samsung pack on the floor and decided to take it apart and find the bad cell / cells. I will need to know what cell / cells I can use for replacements. As long as they are similar AH and voltage and Samsung could they work.

I have a few good ones in storage which are Samsung I pulled out of some old laptops. I will order a new BMS like the two I used for the LG packs and maybe parallel them to that or just order more cells if I could get a deal on them. I will post the number of bad cells and good cells after testing. Thanks.

LC out.

2:14 PM

I am puzzled. After testing each cell I do not see any cells that are low voltage. I will retest and separate cells according to voltage. None are below 3.9V that I saw and most around 3.98V with about 5 > 4V. 4 were around 3.94V.

Is it possible that the BMS is faulty ? The pack cut off < 2 miles with a full charge. Please let me know.

LC out.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Oct 10 2018 4:15pm

So where do people get electronic components from in the US? Wholesale here, we have Element 14 and RS Online. Retail we have Jaycar. Either way, if you can get to an electronic component retailer, you can calibrate your multimeter.

Low resting voltage isn't the only reason for a BMS to trigger off. I've had cells that were so bad that at rest they were 4.2v, but apply even 1 amp and they dropped below LVC. Give it 30 seconds and they'd bounce back to about 4v.

Again, component store and get a decent sized resistor, and if your multimeter has a min/max/hold function, you can easily rest for weak cells without forking hundreds out for a Grinspector or other expensive battery tester
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Oct 10 2018 4:48pm

I own two or three balancers. Balancers do not have an adjustment I do not believe.

If I check the meter to the balancers with the old LiPo packs Dan sent. Not sure how accurate that is but will find out.

I am pulling them out of storage tonight or tomorrow.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/202250766864

Ok those are the two balancers I ordered and are using for the 4P LG cells. I can order that same BMS and hook in parallel to those for a 6P pack or I could order a different BMS which does not have a separate negative charging port for run and charge and hook in parallel with the SONA packs.

Not sure which I should do. Please let me know. Thanks.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Oct 23 2018 6:06pm

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. A lazy alcoholic.

I am still running the Currie downtown about 3 nights a week and three or four times a week to Wall-Mart and the grocery store.

Running the Samsung 6P - packs and the LG 4P - packs I built. About once every two weeks I tighten up the motor chain on the Currie. It takes less than 10 minutes I think.

Other than that it runs great. The front wheel has two brakes. One disk and the other regular. I do not have much money to invest in any more builds at this time.

Also I am an extremely Laaaazzzzzzzzzy alcoholic. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

DAND214   1 GW

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Posts: 3178
Joined: Aug 10 2008 8:28pm
Location: About 1200 miles south of Chicago, in sunny/rainny Port Richey, Florida!

Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Oct 23 2018 6:40pm

Glad to see that you are still around.
Yesterday I took a long ride 43 miles! It was a beautiful day here, at least to me. Met a couple on a tandem and rode with them a little while, while along them the girl said she was cold? Pants sweatshirt, scarf, head sock, helmet and she was behind the guy blocking the wind.
My top speed was 20.2 per gps speed, went all over trying to see how far my 3/4 year old LiPo pack was. Went 43 miles on 14.2 ah (16ah Multistars)and the resting voltage was still 3.45v+. Top speed at the end was 14mph. I have the controller to shutdown at 42v and 3 peed switch will allow me close to 40mph and low speed is normally 18 which is what I normally run. Almost 3 miles a AH!!!
I sure have to be over careful with the old and snowbirds here. A speed limit of 45 means more like 60 here. Limited police, so limited tickets down here.
Shorts and a t-shirt while others were long sleeve, wow what a great day.

Great to see you are still posting.

Dan

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latecurtis   1 GW

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Posts: 3129
Joined: Jan 18 2014 1:53pm
Location: upstate NY. Albany area

Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Oct 24 2018 5:01pm

Thanks.

I still have that little 500 watt motor and a push cart project to finish.
I just have to find something that I often run out of basically my entire life.

It is called ambition. :oops:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

DAND214   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3178
Joined: Aug 10 2008 8:28pm
Location: About 1200 miles south of Chicago, in sunny/rainny Port Richey, Florida!

Re: new eZip motor

Post by DAND214 » Oct 24 2018 5:59pm

latecurtis wrote:
Oct 24 2018 5:01pm
Thanks.

I still have that little 500 watt motor and a push cart project to finish.
I just have to find something that I often run out of basically my entire life.

It is called ambition. :oops:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks.

LC out.
Ambition is what you have. Being lazy is a different thing.
I've been lazy since we moved. Why do anything is what I thought for a while. I have no friends down here, had no place to ride and it's too hot to work in the garage which is where my shop is now. It's changed, I found places to ride, like 53 miles today! My butt is sore and legs too. Gotta pedal all the time, I need to lose 10+ lbs this winter. It's just the opposite of Chicago nice riding weather in the winter than the hot summer. It has been above normal temps since we got here. Gonna get cold (down here) like 72 this weekend.

Are you still moving and how is the lady of the house? Hope doing better. I know you will get back into this as you have before. Have given up a few times but a few days/weeks and we see a new toy.
Hang in there LC.

Dan

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