new eZip motor

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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Apr 28 2019 10:12pm

Maybe time for you to start playing in the big leagues then? There's a lot more to learn once you get over 30mph.

1. Maybe time to invest in a programmable FOC controller, with a wide voltage range, and high current limit? Something like a Phaserunner, or even a bigger Kelly/Sabvoton.

2. All those direct drive motors would be easily and safely over-driven in your climate - if you can get the heat to the outside of the case. Have you played around with automatic transmission fluid (Cheap, but leaks/causes drag) or Statorade (Expensive, but won't leak and doesn't cause drag).

3. You should start thinking about building managed 24V packs... Easy to leave at 24V for small stealth bikes, join together two with a series adaptor to make it to 48V, for a mid-range bike, or 72/96V for high performance bikes.

4. Time to look at full suspension disc brake MTBs, or even down hill bikes? I don't know what laws are like over there, but I reckon if you bought a postie bike, it's not much heavier than a decent down hill bike, but now you have ready built motorcycle quality frame suspension, wheels and brakes. I know, I know, money. But you might be able to get one with a blown motor for not much more than scrap value. You can get wrecks in Australia for scrap metal cost ($100-300 - These bikes sell for about $1500 new, so if anything major goes wrong, e.g. motor blows, the cost of labour to strip and rebuild isn't worth the cost to repair, so they are wrecked for next to nothing. That said, labour is much more expensive in Australia than the US, so the same might not apply.)
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
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latecurtis   1 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Apr 30 2019 2:24am

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. e bike madness. :lol:


https://peopleforbikes.org/wp-content/u ... sednew.pdf

They recently changed the law. They were considered mopeds about a year ago and required registration and a license

plate.

From your description, the throttle seems to be the problem.
Try one of your spare throttles?
I finally did replace the thumb throttle. I used the one which was used for the dual motor brushed chain drive from my last post. The one I replaced two 24 volt Chinese controllers with the 2,000 watt variable voltage controller with the built in pot.

Performance was exactly the same. As I suspected the lack of power compared to Easy Street : the 700c 500 watt e bikling motor'
remained the same and the culprit is still the controller.

However I can live with and will pack the spare thumb throttle along with some zip ties electrical tape and Allen wrenches and led light and small screw drivers for an e bike tool kit. that bike will go to Ohio with me on a train so I can look for apartments.

I have no problem pedal assisting and even though is my lowest power e bike it has proven reliable. I made it over 7 miles with pedal assist last week on a single battery pack. The LG pack I built.
Maybe time for you to start playing in the big leagues then? There's a lot more to learn once you get over 30mph.

The FX motor I still have with a 45,000 watt controller. The East coast Death Bike is still on my bucket list.

Perhaps maybe someday you could help me build it. I am not as advanced as you are. I still have to build a friction drive and a belt drive as well as a push trailer.

Also I have a Schwinn ranger I plan on putting the 1,000 hub motor you sent me on the front once I get the bent rim fixed and a second 1,000 watt motor on the back with a single thumb throttle if possible.


Once I move and get settled I am looking to build a large 13S pack and a 16S pack using 90 + to 100 + 18650 cells for each.
I also want to build a belt drive for a 48V 1,800 watt brushless motor and run it at 2,000+ watts with the 16S 60 volt pack.

Once I accomplish that I might be ready for the East Coast Deathbike project however may have to rename it as I dont think Ohio is considered the east coast. Thanks for posting Sunder. Good to hear from you.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » May 21 2019 2:24am

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LG pack goes up in smoke.

Much has happened in the last week or so with my e bike builds. I made a stupid mistake the other day hooking up my home built 4P 10S LG pack. I should have hard wired the positive wire going from the controller to the fuse going on to the switch but there was a bullet plug between the fuse and the switch which came unhooked when testing the dual motor turbo bike. I was working with the LG - 4p pack so tested the rear chain drive and front hub motor separately. There was a problem upon take off with spinning and a lot of noise.

I was switching from the front brushless hub motor to the rear chain drive and ended up hooking the 4P LG packs to the kill switch on the rear brush motor to the switch positive and negative. A dead short at storage. :oops: :oops: :oops: I hit the switch and smoke and a really bad smell happened. It stunk really bad. The BMS was on fire and completely burnt. However the other BMS on the other 2P pack is not burnt but scorch marks on the plastic tupperware container they were in. I threw the burnt up 2P pack in a drainage vent in the street and the 2P pack which appears that the short circuit protection worked was tested with a multi meter and placed in storage.

The bike tipped over when all the smoke happened and the rear motor chain was rubbing against thr rear tire. That was also the culprit causing the noise and spin out when engaging the throttle earlier. It was the warping of the rear tire via a spoke sprocket especially large at 60 tooth. After the bike tipped over it was 10 times worse and unfixable. I uninstalled the rear 1,000 watt 48 volt unite motor leaving the 800 watt heavy hauler to be the only motor and front hub motor.

I am considering another 120 buck currie wheel for an exact rebuild like the original currie 1,000 watt upgrade only for the Haro V3 as the original currie rack is on the V3.

There is also an annoying rubbing sound from the 800 watt 20" motor as the rim is also warped or bent somehow. The bike is still drivable but not much better than the 1,000 watt 26" hub motor also screwed up from too many potholes or bad section of roads.

Also the 36 volt controller on the currie has been unhooked as it seemed to speed up and slow down on its own causing it to be unstable and a safety hazard. It currently has no controller as I could not find the new variable controller still in the box. I bought several of those units and recently upgraded the only remaining dual motor 20" bike a week or so ago with one of those units. I failed to install one of those units as the only variable controller I could find has a screw missing. I stole the parallel cables from the LiPo packs Dan sent years ago so a 48 volt controller is not an option.

I still have the new build dual suspension rear motor e bikling 500 watt build and the 6P Samsung 10S pack as well as the old 4P 10S SONA pack hooked up to the charger now. I also have easy street with the front 500 watt e bikeling motor as a spare. Yes I am very glad I built them.

I am also less than a day from being in Ohio. Mary's sons are sleeping about 10 feet away and will be in a van with the rear motor e bikling bike strapped to the roof and on the freeway in a few hours. Also I will have an and my first e bike shop to fix both rims. only a few miles away. The 1,000 watt hub motor Sunder sent as well as the 20" 800 watt hub motor.

https://electric-petes-e-bikes.business.site/

In NY there is no place that works on e bikes. E bikes are officially illegal here. I will be a few miles away from fixing two hub motors in about 24 hours. I also have learned two valuable lessons.

1. Hard wire connections and use less bullets so it can be impossible to make fatal mistakes when hooking up battery packs.

2. rear hub motors are much better that front hub motors as if you hit a pot hole or broken section of road the front wheel takes 60 to 70% of the brunt of impact than the rear wheel. It is less expensive to replace or repair a rim which does not house a hub motor.

The Clear creek Schwinn which has the 1,000 watt direct drive hub motor Sunder sent years ago will be removed and the rim will be repaired by that professional bike shop posted and will be installed on a Schwinn Ranger as well as a brand new 1,000 watt rear direct drive hub motor on the rear.

When I order the rear 1,000 watt brand new hub motor I am ordering two. The second will go on the rear of the Clear creek Schwinn and will be a gift to Marys son John who is moving me to Ohio.

Thanks.

LC out.

PS.

I will also be asking the e bike shop what they can do if anything to help me build a DEATH BIKE with the FX 75-5 motor once I get my storage moved to Ohio. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » May 22 2019 5:09pm

I am in Ohio if anybody cares. A hotel in Canfield Ohio. A small town. The new build with the rear e bikeling hub motor was strapped down to the roof of a big Dodge van and was a 11 hour trip due to a lot of stops. Should have been less than 8 hours.

I already saved on carbon emissions today as went to the grocery store about a mile down the road with the e bike instead of using the 5.7 Liter Dodge Mike , Mary;s son brought us up here with.

We scored a 2 bedroom 1 bath motel for 160 bucks a week. Eventually I will be getting a mobile camera for the bike or a body cam and will be doing videos. Thanks.



LC out.

PS.

Was pulled over by the sheriff last night. It had been raining and was going down hill about 30 mph and had a black plastic bag covering my batteries , control module and both LED lights.

As I thought it was because he did not see me and he was concerned about my safety and well being. He ran my NY drivers license to make sure I had no warrents and advised me to get a flashing red LED for the back and to NOT cover my LED headlights at night.

I plan on getting that as soon as I find a store that sells it. I am not really close to any bike shop but when I find one I will get one. I am not sure if the control module and my LED lights are waterproof or not. I know DAN said he bought a couple e bikeling kits in the past. Perhaps Dan would know so I can just protect my battery pack and wires. I can use a tube of silicone to cover the connections on the kill switch. Please let me know. Thanks.

LC out.

5/23/19

I am at the Canfield Ohio library doing research. There is a local bus system but motorized bikes are not allowed on bike racks.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10P4S-36v-14Ah ... 0005.m1851

Does anybody know if these packs are a good deal or not. Eventually I will build another pack but for now would like to increase my range by buying one of these packs. two would be even better. Please let me know.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » May 23 2019 11:19pm

Hey mate.

Sorry I haven't been online for a while. Life's been a bit tough, traveling for work a lot, working weekends and 12-16 hour days. I'm getting run down and constantly sick.

Glad to hear you've found a place to stay, at what seems like a really reasonable rate. Most 2 bedroom flats anywhere in a major city in Australia, would be around $160 a NIGHT.

The pack you've listed is very high internal resistance (40mOhm), and is recommended for 500W eBikes only. Even the connectors indicate that they're not a high power solution.

What kind of range are you looking at, and what kind of miles per Ah were you getting before? I can have a look for you when I have a bit more time.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: 5.5kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » May 24 2019 4:15am

Battery pack reputed 3500mAh cells!
Without them advertising as Samsung or Panasonic cells ... I'd be extremely suspect as to quality and actual capacity.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » May 24 2019 4:33am

True dat, even the name brand 18650's that state 3500mAh are not so, judging solely on what lgyte website stated.
*I hope I got that 18650 testing website spelt ;) right.
DrkAngel wrote:
May 24 2019 4:15am
Battery pack reputed 3500mAh cells!
Without them advertising as Samsung or Panasonic cells ... I'd be extremely suspect as to quality and actual capacity.

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latecurtis   1 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » May 24 2019 4:14pm

It really hurt me when I hooked up those 4P LG packs negative and positive to the switch by accident. 1/2 or 2P may be salvageable as they appear to be undamaged but need to be tested and are close to 500 miles away in storage. The BMS on the one was totally fried.

A lot of smoke and one of the 36 volt chargers that was in the bag still smells like burnt silicon or whatever circuit boards are made of. The charger however is undamaged but that 2P pack with the BMS I threw out. The cells looked rough. The 4P LG packs I built had close to or equal the capacity as my 6P Samsung pack but not any more.

I still have the first 36 volt packs I ordered the 4P SONA packs and have been running those exclusively since I have been in Ohio.

With pedal assist I did 5.4 miles round trip with the 4P SONA packs and they recharged rather quick so am thinking that I was running them a lot harder in NY as I was familiar with the area and ran them harder on the hills also so am thinking the SONA packs could do 10 miles themselves or close to it as long as I dont push them up steep hills.

I also have the 6P Genuine SamSung packs that should be good for 15 miles easily. I have 2 destinations outside of the small village of Canfield. One is Berlin Lake for swimming and they have picnic tables and outdoor grills.That is 11 miles one way.

The second is Youngstown. 10 miles one way. The Social Security office , food stamps and medicaid is all there and can recharge at the public library.

I should be good but wish I still had the LG packs as I would not need to recharge and would be good for 30 miles round trip easily without recharging with all three packs. I may not need to go to Youngstown to Social security , food stamps and medicaid as I might be moving an hour west to Massillon Ohio and then would be going to Akron Ohio to change everything over. Thanks.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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latecurtis   1 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » May 29 2019 7:37pm

I checked voltage when I got to Super Walmart and was 38 volts. When I got back the voltage was 36.8 volts.
I did heavy pedal assist.

The bike trail was beautiful. I bought a rotisserie chicken fully cooked for less than 5 bucks and potato salad for dinner and the chicken was still warm when I got home.

I have been here a week now and rode my bike 4.4 miles the first day and 5.5 miles the second day. The third day I walked 4.4 miles and fourth day 5.5 miles and fifth day 4.4 miles. Yesterday it rained and thunderstorms all day and there was over a foot of water in the road so could not go anywhere.

I know now that the 6P Samsung packs are good enough to go to Youngstown especially if I have the 4P SONA packs for back up.
However will need to recharge them at a library if I don't want to run them low.

I cancelled my Walmart green dot pre-pay credit card as I did not like the monthly fee of 5 bucks and am getting a free Key bank checking account for the Planet fitness gym. I can use that to buy another 36 volt 10S pack.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/36V-4-4AH-Lith ... SwjDhctYbZ

I just found those but AGAIN. A no name brand. I may take a chance as if I got three it would be 6P. Brand new they should be close to the Samsung packs I got unless they are straight up lying about the range they advertised for one of the packs being 12 to 15 miles for a hover board.

I need a good deal and am looking for at least 50 miles on a charge. Please let me know what good deals are out there and how many Ah I will need for a 50 mile trip and what charging options I will have. I will need to recharge in about 3 hours so I can go from here to Akron Ohio and charge back up at the public library before the return trip home.

I already checked e bay and all I saw was that 14 Ah NO NAME BRAND pack and those cheap hover board packs i just posted.. No Samsung , Panasonic or LG name brand 10S packs. Please let me know what the cheapest option is. NO Lead ass batteries though. Way too heavy and no way to mount them. Thanks.

LC out.
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jun 07 2019 2:44am

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns.

I have been taking longer trips lately probably 20 miles or a little more round trips. These packs are far from new as the SONA packs are over 3 years old I think and the Samsung defiantly greater than two probably close to three years old.

Since I made that stupid mistake and screwed up the LG pack I built by hooking it up to a switch I have been taking it easy on my 6P Genuine Samsung pack and running the old SONA packs hard. Youngstown is about 11 miles but got a ride about half way today by a older guy in a pick up. I was asking directions as first time going to Youngstown and after he gave me directions decided to take me to the Library in Youngstown.

I then found Medicaide and food stamps so traveled about 4 miles so did about 8 or 9 miles on the 4P SONA packs. they were close to shut off at 34.8 when I put them on charge and pedaled around town. Went to city mission and to a CVS to check blood pressure. I forgot to take my blood pressure pills for a day and then when I took them again had serious dizzy spells so spent a couple hours at a drug store CVS and plugged the SONA packs in for two hours there and about an hour and a half at the library.

I got them back up to over 39 nvolts and went to Wall - Mart about 7- 1/2 miles but walked and pedaled about 2 miles before using them. I switched to the 6P Samsung pack about 1/4 mile from Wall- Mart and got home with the SONA packs at 36.5 volts and the Samsung pack was over 38 volts. :D

Both are on charge but still wish I did not screw up those LG packs as I would not have needed to plug in anything today to do the 20+ mile trip. :( It will be alright though as I will be able to order more batteries once I rent an apartment. I bought a gas table top grill at Wall-Mart for 24 bucks and 6 bucks for propane. It will be my first gas grill ever. I always used charcoal or wood.

Living in a motel only a microwave and coffee pot is allowed but there is a spot outside for portable gas or charcoal but charcoal is not as healthy and have to dispose of the burnt stuff so also messy. I have to cook and eat and hate microwave cooking so really needed the grill. I also need rent and security for an apartment and also need to move my stuff from storage in NY to here so unfortunatlly more batteries are not on the top of my priority list.

One thing I know is the 500 watt geared hub motor does not need another controller and was wrong about the performance. That motor just did not do the bike justice in the city. Out on the open road it performes much better and definatlly cruizes > 20 miles per hour. It has plenty of power up slight hills and goes 25 mph or greater down slight hills. With pedal assist it goes up hills essy as long as not too steep and rides great.

I have learned that you can not judge the performance of an electric motor if you limit it to a mile or 2 in the city. You need to take it out on the open road with aggressive pedal assist up little hills and will see the difference then on a 5 or 10 mile streach as long as the hills are not really steep.


Thanks.



LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Jun 13 2019 10:56pm

Hey man, good to hear from you again. When I have more time, I want to look at some of the places you're talking about. I am dreaming of travel again, I think sometimes just to be any place but here. At least I got a week's holiday in a rain forest in a month's time. A couple weeks after end of financial year here.

Gotta be careful with the blood pressure man. I went to a doctor for a check up, and mine turned out to be 148/98. Was pretty freaked out by that. Not so much that it was that high, but that it changed so fast. Dr didn't think one reading was enough to justify giving me drugs though, so he told me to go buy a home machine, and measure it for a month and go back to him. Bit of a relief. 120/80 every morning, 140/90 or so after work. It's 100% stress causing it, not heart health. Still a good reminder to look after myself.

I haven't had much of a chance to look at cheap batteries for you, but are you still staunchly against LiPo? The risks are higher, but the cost per watt hour is much lower. Don't know if you could like put them in a sealed metal box for extra safety, if that would be enough for you.

The other option you might want to think about is looking for battery recyclers in your area, and asking if you can have the used cells cheap/free. Power tools use 18650s, and Home Depot in Boardman (5 miles from you) accepts them:

http://locations.call2recycle.org/oh/boardman/43117/

Places that recycle laptops will probably have plenty, but I can't find any near you. I'm sure you can do the searching. It'll be a fair bit of work to cut open the packs, then more to test for the best ones.. But hey, if they're close to free, you have time on your hands, right?

I think it might be worth it for you to get some polarised connectors so that you can't screw them up. I used to be a fan of XT90s because they were small and difficult to screw up, but I've lately taken to Anderson SB50s:

Image

here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10pcs-6 ... 85105.html?

10 pieces for $15 including shipping. 10 pieces make 5 connections.

They are larger than XT90s, but mostly that's a good thing. They are easier to assemble and disassemble. You can see the + and - are embossed on them very clearly, so when soldering, it's harder to mess up, and there's a bolt through the centre you can use to fix it to something firm, so you only have to hold one side when connecting them.

With winter here, my dad has been complaining the solar system at the farm doesn't have enough power, so I went up there to see if I could fit a couple extra panels, and clean up the "evolved" wiring. (I.e it started off as one panel and one deep cycle lead acid on 14awg wire - but I kept adding batteries and panels for him, so now some parts are running 24kw capable LTO batteries with 00 wire, and other bits are running undersized wiring. If there was a critical fault in it, there could be... Issues.)

Anyway, it got me thinking a lot more about how to make things both simpler and less error prone. I am choosing to rewire the whole lot with appropriate sized wiring, changing all the connectors, so that only things that should be connected can be, and can always be without adaptors, but nothing that shouldn't connect, can. (E.g Right now, solar is using the same SB50s as the battery, but they should never be connected directly. So I am making all solar MC4, and all batteries SB50.)

I'm also introducing switches, fuses and ammeters/coulomb counters so I can see exactly what is going in the system (How much power does the LTO give compared to the Lead Acid? Does the LTO battery ever back feed the lead acid, and if so, what's the current, etc).

I think self made eBikes could do with this kind of safety and visibility. You can know how much power you're using up hills, if shouldn't be able to connect the wrong way, but it's protected by fuse or diode if you do. Maybe it's overkill... But since safety and ease of use is on my mind at the moment, I thought they might make good, cheap projects for you.


Sorry I haven't been able to post more often. It's still really busy here.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: 5.5kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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latecurtis   1 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jun 14 2019 8:18pm

Gotta be careful with the blood pressure man.
I got a good reading today. 128 over 55 , second time was 134 over 58 and third 128 over 55 again. I know that it is not all the medicine either. I have been a lot more physically active the last 6 weeks and am down to 228 pounds. Was 256 about a year or two ago. I have been pedal assist and also doing a lot of walking the days I don't ride and doing light calisthenics.

My diet has also changed. I am eating more salads and fruit and nut trail mix mixed with raison bran ceral and limiting red meat to two or three times a week.
I think it might be worth it for you to get some polarised connectors so that you can't screw them up.
I just hooked the positive and negative from the SONA packs together the other day coming from the pizza shop. Done that at least 1/2 a dozen times. Needless to say I am an idiot , At least I know the short circuit protection works excellent. I wish I knew what BMS they used for those packs. Defiantly much better than the BMSs I ordered for the poor LG packs I assembled.


For whatever stupid reason I had the positive and negative wires going to large wire nuts and then bullets. They were also separated and not together making it a recipe for disaster. I immediately bought some electrical tape and got rid of the wire nuts and made sure there was a good connection by stripping the wire about 2 - 1/2 inches each piece and wrapping them together to get it as strong as possible by cutting the electrical tape in 1/2 about 6 inch strips and wrapping the wires up twice that way and then another 7 inch piece of tape not cut in half for best possible bond as I have no solder or iron and even if I did it would trip the smoke alarm in the motel.


I then taped the positive and negative wires from the battery close to the plugs so it is impossible to plug them together. I also realize now that the polarized X60 connecters are better than 4 mm bullets HOWEVER all my controllers are hooked to the 4mm bullets.

I can still use X60 connecters simply by ordering adapters for 4mm bullets to X60. I will need to order a lot of 10 or so as I have two 36 volt chargers and the old LiPo packs back in storage I will be moving here next month. I am looking at staying here at the motel until August I called social security today and got my food stamps and Medicaid transferred from NY to Ohio.

I ran the Samsung packs about 13 miles on the bike trail to Walmart Supercenter last night and were down to 34.5V upon return from full charge. I ran the SONA packs today and the Samsung packs both to make the 22 mile round trip to Youngstown. I only charged the packs about an hour and a half at the library and both packs were low when I got home. 35.7 volts for the SONA packs and 34.3 volts for the Samsung.


I really wish I did not screw up those LG packs. I will order a better BMS the next time I build a pack. I am also using XT60 plugs and last but not least ordering 4 of these for 10S - 8P.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/36V-4-4AH-Lith ... SwjDhctYbZ


I am not waiting for name brand packs. I will take the gamble I guess and ordering a bunch of XT60 plugs to go with it and another 36 volt charger. Thanks.


LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Jun 15 2019 9:50am

You do remember I tried pleading and begging with you to not cut all the XT60 connectors off your batteries?
I foresaw all these battery problems and disasters and did warn you.
This is only one more example of your belligerent contrariness that keeps making your projects so complex and troublesome and costly!
Will you never learn to listen?
Invariably, it seems, my suggestions would have saved you the world of pain and anguish you experienced ... before you suffered, then finally complied.
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latecurtis   1 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jun 15 2019 4:17pm

You do remember I tried pleading and begging with you to not cut all the XT60 connectors off your batteries?
I foresaw all these battery problems and disasters and did warn you.

Yes I do remember. You were right. I guess some people have to learn the hard way. Even the bullet plugs have plastic holding them together so it is impossible to plug them in together. However I did not want them that close as fear of arcing and electric shock. If I did not seperate them it would not have happened.


Not sure where my fear of electricity came from. Perhaphs in a past life I was struck by lightning. Since tazers came out I dont even look crossways at a cop anymore. I say yes sir when they address me.

In less than three weeks I will have my storage down here. I am looking forwards to getting that hub motor Sunder sent fixed. The motor is fine but the wheel needs to get straightened and I got someone here to do it.

Also I learned one other thing. A 40 or 50 mph e bike is not top of my priority list any more. I am not giving up on it but my next build and first build here in ohio will be a 26" bike. NOT a 20" BMX bike. I alreaDY HAVE TWO BUILT.

I have a Schwinn Ranger that looks nice. The 1,000 watt HUB motor will go on the front when it is fixed and will order a second 1,000 watt HUB motor for the rear. NOT a chain drive as I realize not hub motors are more reliable.

I will run it at 8P with my new packs. Backup will be 10P. The 4P SONA packs in parallel with the 6P Samsung packs. Those motors are geared for about 28 mph at 48 volts so will do about 24 mph at 36 volts but steep hills will be no problem as 1,500 watts total with 24 mph geaing will rock those hills. I will also be able to maintain that 24 mph for long periods of time without damage to the motors , batteries or controllers going up hills.

I am not sure how many highway miles these e bikeling motors wil do before I will need to replace the plastic wheels inside them. I believe the top speed to be around 18 to 20 mph. Easy street could do about 22 or 23 mph due to 700cc wheels and a lighter frame and skinner tires. I have been activelly pedal assisting each time I hear the motor start to struggle up hills. However have been running this motor and my batteries a lot more and harder than when living in the city.


Thanks DA for posting. It is good to hear from you.



LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jun 16 2019 3:38pm

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This is very frustrating. I got 4 or 5 e bikes all with bullets coming from the controllers. The dual chain drive motor has two brushed controllers.

I wired them all the same with female bullets for positive coming from the controllers for positive and male bullets from the battery packs positive.


All the XT60 to 4mm bullets I saw on e bay will NOT work. I really do not feel like re wiring all those controllers and battery packs.
Also I will need plugs and adapters to combine the SONA and Samsung packs for 10P. I want to run the brand new 8P pack I am ordering and be able to easily switch over to 10P for back up. That should give me about 40 miles round trip and can go 20 miles in any direction.

I do not think the EXT60 big yellow plug adapter (two pics. above in center will work. I need a XT60 male to an XT60 male.

Not sure about the bottom pics.

This is very confusing. I do not want to cut and solder wires.

The second pic down on the bottom pics is the screw up. It needs to be an XT60 male plug but is a stupid female. I do not see any way possible to hook that 4 plug battery wiring harness up to bullet plugs coming from the controllers. Unless I figure this out I am NOT ordering anything.

I could cut the female XT60 connecter on the 4 wire harness on the top and wire up a male XT60 connecter but realy do not want to go that route.


I will still keep looking on e bay. Please let me know if anyone has any ideas. Thanks.

LC out.
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Jun 16 2019 8:06pm

My first recommendation to change everything to SB50s still stands:

1. They are big enough that your fingers don't need to be near the contact point.

2. The contactors don't touch until after the the plastic is fully over them, meaning any arcing is completely contained.

3. The contactors from the back end, finish pretty deep inside the casing, preventing any arcing from that direction, or accidental contact. Unlike poorly assembled XT90s (See the exposed rear contacts at the back. Most people heatshrink over them, but it's still possible for a soldering iron to melt through the heat shrink to cause a spark during assemblyImage

Short of a spark suppressing connector which generally aren't factory made to the size required for eBikes, the Anderson SB range is as good as you're going to get.

If you don't want to rewire stuff and just want to use adaptors, I think you're still going to be prone to error.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jun 17 2019 2:55am

Sounds good but I don't have money to switch over 6 or 7 controllers already wired with bullets. It would cost a fortune. I still do not have an apartment. I still don't have my storage. It will cost about 400 bucks to get my stuff from NY to here. about 100 for storage here and about 300 for gas to haul it here.

My apartment will be at least 400 rent and 400 security. I also need a car as in the winter when there is two or more feet of snow and during heavy rain I cant go anywhere. My significant other also needs to go to doctors.


I still need the extra packs to look for apartment and get myself to doctors as I accidently destroyed my LG packs. I cant go back in time and undo that.


I really need to just order the 4 new packs and the four way XT60 harness. I will have to butcher the plugs and use electrical tape. I will need to cut off the female XT 60 on the four way harness and tape on 4mm bullet plugs and call it a day.


I will then have a brand new 10S - 8P pack. I also do not have the money for an elaborate harness adapter to parallel the 4P SONA packs and the 6P Samsung packs.


I will run the New packs 15 to 20 miles if they will go that far. Then the SONA packs about 8 miles on the way home and switch to the Samsung packs for the last 10 to 12 miles.

I am wondering if I could buy a new multimeter and when I butcher the harness would it be possible to hook wires to a multimeter to the harness and use the meter like a gas gauge so I can switch packs at 35 or 36 volts or whenever I choose. I will also be able to monitor voltage sag up hills. I know there are modules out there but need to save money and multimeters are simple to use also.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FN3VXH4/re ... il_8?psc=1


Just pulled that up. I like that. It shows wattage , voltage and current. I know that electric motors have a specific rpm where they are at the most efficient and if I could know when I am there then could squeeze a few extra miles out of my batteries. If I have a speedo. and something like that then I could probably figure out when I am at my most efficient speed to conserve battery power and get the most miles out of a charge.

I would also know what gear to shift into to pedal assist and help out the motor. I need a tune up on this bike as cant shift into higher gears for some reason. I have to let off on the throttle or maybe 1/4 throttle to pedal and help the motor. If the bike goes too fast pedaling does nothing. I can still help it out though going up hills and often let off on the throttle so can pedal with the motor on the flat to get more miles on my batteries.

when I was in NY in Schenectady I did not pedal assist that much. Only a little up the hills. That is why I can go so much farther now compared to when I was there.

Another thing I want for my e bikes is a GPS system. I have a tablet in storage and if I can figure out how to mount it as well as the multimeter not only will I know when to switch packs but wont get lost when exploring new territory and wont have to ask several people where to go. :D


I can hardly wait until the day I can afford to order hundreds of cells and start building huge packs that will go 100 miles on a charge. Hopefully by winter time. Thanks.



LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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DrkAngel   100 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Jun 17 2019 5:29am

Posted this up for you before ...
I run in series between battery and controller (with XT60 plugs)
Fairly weather resistant, lighted LCD for day or night use. Volt, Amp, Watt, Ah meter < $10
Image


Soldering is not the tortuous wizardry that you make it out to be ... if, you would only follow our recommendations!

Wire nuts and/or twisted wires with electrical tape are lazy, infantile shortcuts that are doomed towards problems >> failures!

.
Last edited by DrkAngel on Jun 19 2019 2:24am, edited 1 time in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - February 2019

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Jun 17 2019 8:18pm

I find it astounding you want to buy additional packs, adaptors, coloumb counters, and 100 cell packs, but $15 for 10 good connectors is too much to protect your equipment.

If you could solder, you could make your own harness for a few cents if it was permanent, or a few dollars if you really needed to disconnect them regularly.

Here I was thinking you were learning, but it seems you have just adopted a few better practices without learning or being willing to think it out.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
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After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jun 18 2019 3:37pm

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns.



harness1.png

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I find it astounding you want to buy additional packs, adaptors, coloumb counters, and 100 cell packs, but $15 for 10 good connectors is too much to protect your equipment.

If you could solder, you could make your own harness for a few cents if it was permanent, or a few dollars if you really needed to disconnect them regularly.

Here I was thinking you were learning, but it seems you have just adopted a few better practices without learning or being willing to think it out.


I am currently living in a motel room in Northeast Ohio. All my stuff is in storage over 450 miles away. I have soldering equipment in storage in NY. I found my 60 watt iron but is in storage in NY.. I may need tips as I had them but will have to search once I get storage here.

I cant even cook inside here as smoke alarm will go off. Only a microwave and coffee pot is allowed. I cook with a propane grill so would need a soldering iron that has a battery and have no money to spend.


I have to come up with 850 bucks to move in a trailer next month. 425 rent and 425 security. I also have to send 95 for the storage in NY this month and got two more weeks to pay here in the motel.

I only plan on ordering two packs for now to replace the LG packs I destroyed. I do not want to cut off the XT60 plugs like I did all the others.

The LG packs WERE 10S - 4P. 20 cells hooked in parallel series to a BMS in parallel to 20 cells hooked to another BMS. Only one BMS failed and caught on fire. The cells looked like they were damaged. I threw those 20 cells with the BMS out. I still have a 2P - LG pack but did not bring it. It is in storage. I also hooked it to the multimeter and got a normal voltage reading. I did not attempt to charge it though.


As far as 10 to 15 bucks to rewire all my e bikes , try 50 bucks or more.


My current e bike

Easy street

The Currie

The Schwinn with the 1,000 watt direct drive.

The 20" dual motors - 2 controllers

The 20" with the 800 watt hub motor

2 or three spare brush conthrllers.

three battery packs and the LiPos Dan sent.

All those are wired to bullets. All the controllers have female bullets. The female plugs being positive FROM each of the controllers and each battery pack plus the LiPos have male bullets being positive.

I thought I was doing the right thing to avoid reverse polarity. It still is the right thing to do as long as I do NOT separate the bullets coming from the battery packs. I broke the plastic connecting the male and female bullets to wrap red tape around the black male bullet wires and black tape around the red bullet wire.


Now I have found bullet connecters called male bullets with the red wire being male and black wire being female. I did not know they existed until a few days ago.


My goal now is to get a cheap voltage battery meter like the one DA posted. Not sure when he posted it or what page it is on. I am also confused as how it would work in series. I do NOT want to cut off any more XT60 plugs and put 90 bucks in my checking account to order two of those 10S packs and a meter for my handlebars. I need to be able to plug it in to each one of my battery packs and use it for each controller or e bike.

If these cheap - 10S packs prove to be as good as the SONA packs which were the first packs I ordered and still going strong I may order two each month and eventually combine them for 10P. I am not sure how I am going to accomplish all this and not go over 90 bucks. The two new packs are 60 bucks and a meter 5 to 10 bucks so am looking at under 20 bucks to build a wiring harness which will allow me to hook XT60 plugs from the new packs and also use my existing packs with the bullet plugs and the volt meter on all my controllers.


Thanks.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Jun 18 2019 7:06pm

Here we go... Reversed polarity connectors. I cannot see that one going wrong in any way... Watch as one day LC in the dark, or drunk, or both, picks the wrong connector, and more magic smoke escapes!

And the Voltameter hooked up like that will never tell you more than the current voltage. To have it count capacity like it's designed for, it must sit between the battery and controller.

Since we're doing dodgy diagrams, here's how it needs to be hooked up:
Series.png
I've made Anderson connectors using nothing more than a cigarette lighter and a pair of pliers before when I was at my dad's farm and didn't bring up my soldering iron. Wouldn't recommend it, as you can't guarantee a quality join, but I can guarantee that it would be substantially better than twisting wire and taping it.

Also, considering the connectors were $1.50 each, delivered, not sure how you got to "$50 or more" for 13 items.

Oh well, you know what they say. Give someone enough rope, and they'll hang themselves. We can give you advice, but if you want to make excuses, that's your prerogative.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
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After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jun 18 2019 10:45pm

Yea.


I was going to order two of those packs but realize that on top of the 850 for rent and security to get in the trailer there is a deposit for gas and electric. They are two separate companies. I also will need to pay another months storage in NY. I wont have 300 bucks to haul all that stuff here next month.


Also I wont have a bed , table and chair or any furniture at all unless I buy it. I have a couple dressers and some wood to build stands for 55 gallon aquariums but they are in storage in NY also.


I am also planning on getting a car in September or October. I need to take my wife to the doctors and dentist. Another thing is there has been record breaking rain here in Eastern Ohio this year. It rains about daily. Out of the 28 days here we did not even see 8 days where it did not rain. Six days at the most.


I wont be riding an e bike in down pouring rain or on snow and ice so unfortunatlly e bikes are not the top of my priorty list and may not be for awhile. Thanks.


LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Jun 18 2019 11:43pm

Sure.

By the way, if you are totally solder free, but still want to do a polarity protected connector, you can buy premade leads like this:

Image

And connect them to whatever you need using Terminal Blocks:

Image

No soldering, solid connections, you can update them if you want. Terminal blocks are usually only a few cents each, but pigtail leads are a couple bucks more than just the raw connector, as you might expect.

Still pretty cheap insurance against another mistake.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: 5.5kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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latecurtis   1 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Jun 19 2019 1:43pm

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We all are different. I like these EC3 and EC5 connections. You like Anderson power poles.


If or When I build a Death Bike with the FX - 75-5 motor I will take a hard long look at the Power poles as I will be dealing with voltage over 100 volts. For now though I feel that the EC3 and EC5 connections to be superior to bullets and XT connecters.


HOWEVER. The mistake I made that cooked 20 LG cells and a BMS is the SAME mistake I made with the SONA packs many times over. That was using wire nuts and SEPERATING the wires coming from the pack. It was the Physical separation of the positive and negative that was the cause of error. NOT the type of plug I used.


Here I was thinking you were learning, but it seems you have just adopted a few better practices without learning or being willing to think it out.

I did learn something by going thru all of this. And has little to do with what type of connecter I use.

1. DO NOT EVER separate the positive and negative when using bullets. XT60 and XT90 plugs will work but EC3 and EC5 plugs are better.


2. NEVER go cheap when purchasing a BMS. Go for quality and what has been proven to work. If I spent a few extra bucks on those BMSs when assembling those LG packs I would still have a functioning 4P pack.

The problem was the taped up bullet wires coming from the kill switch and the fuse and controller looked just like the taped up bullets coming from the SONA packs and LG packs. The two battery wires coming from the SONA packs and the Samsung packs are taped at the ends so that it is NOT possible to physically plug them togeather therefore not repeating the mistake.

They say every cloud has a silver lining. I have learned the importance of a quality BMS like the ones in the SONA packs and when they die someday will look at it and see who makes it.

Also when I start building packs again I will take you and DAs advice and anyone here who has built packs as to which BMS to get. I never liked the BMSs that I bought for the LG packs as there was a seperate charging wire where the SONA packs as well as the Samsung packs the charger hooks to the same wires as the controller.

I did not like the extra wire as when hooking them in parallel to packs that do not have that extra wire I would need to charge them seperate. That now brings me to my question of the day.


Can I hook up different packs in parallel to run and charge them ? For example if that 2P LG pack in storage that looks undamaged and tested ok with the Multimeter and I unhook the BMS and hook up one which is reccomended by someone here on ES wihich runs and charges with two wires like the SONA packs can I parallel them to the SONA packs for a 6P pack instead of a 4P and a 2P pack ?


Please let me know. Thanks.

LC out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Jun 19 2019 6:46pm

Any polarised connectors are fine. XT?? EC? SB?? Even polarised and joined bullets are fine. Hell, XT90s are nothing more than 4mm bullets in a housing. Looks like EC3 may be the same. The only thing that's not fine are unpolarised bullets. That means either separating them as you did, or introducing reversed polarity joined ones, as you sounded like you were going to do.

I just like the Anderson SB50s, because they are very easy to make - with or without a soldering iron, they are big enough that you don't fumble with them, they are designed to be bolted down to something solid, and the arc is fully shielded.

The short answer to joining packs is "Yes, but with a risk". If the internal resistance of the packs is too different, you risk frying the BMS and cells. But if they are reasonably close together, then it "should" be safe.

Personally, I'd reassemble the pack into one with a single BMS to be safe, but that's probably more effort than you want to do, and you wouldn't have the tools with you right now anyway.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: 5.5kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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