new eZip motor

[Sunder]

Those are cheap plastic garbage. I had one and the plastic melted. Complete garbage. I know my kits will be better and easier to assemble. That is the first thing my 3D printer will do.

Just be aware that 3D printers use plastic that melt very easily. That's by design remember? They print by melting plastic filament through a small nozzle, then laying it down on a colder surface.

Some plastics have a higher melting point - usually right on the edge of what most cheap commercial printers will do (about 250-280*C, you can figure out the farenheit). But to get good quality prints out of these ones, most people either use enclosed printers, or build their own enclosures and put like a lizard warming light, or a heat pad in them. This stops them from cooling unevenly and giving you a warped print.

[ksbk]

That test is for direct drive motors and not geared motors.
But measuring phase-to-phase resistance can show hidden problems in the phase wires.

https://ebikes.ca/learn/troubleshooting.html

Just do an online search how to measure phase to phase resistance.

I would not have genuinely tried to help the chap directly with one specific problem (without all the p***s taking, deliberate misdrection, and underlying childish sarcasm. ) if It has not worked for me and not just a heresay, or random info linked to from the master of all google random linkers (instead of actually giving input based on own experience. What is this, a google link fest???).

It believe it has already been assertained that the motors not only have gears, but freewheel clutches built into them so the wheel turns freely with the clutch, and with slight resistance against it. However, followng the smple method I posted, when the phase wires are connected together in turn there will be a very noticeable increase in resistance when turnng the wheel in one direction as opposed to spnning the wheel in the same directon when the leads are not connected together. It will not matter wether the phases are all connected or not when rotating the wheel with the freewheel because the wheel will always turn freely, unless it is ceased/broken.

I personally believe the motors are ok and there is a problem with the wirng connection to the controllers. Using cheap sensorless, auto tune controllers is such an easy way to sort your problem. Do not listen to people telling you to take apart the hub motors and such like. What!! to check the colour of the windngs etc. It s not neccessary at this stage, why would they be burnt out. I think by reading between the lines someone is using your thread to up his post count and get his own little giggles with sarcastic, demeaning and often cruel side digs while suggesting solutons that are not directly relevant and only lead you to distraction.

This is a great thread LC, always the first one I hunt down for any new developments in your world. Keep it up.

[latecurtis]

This is a great thread LC, always the first one I hunt down for any new developments in your world. Keep it up.

Thanks.

I am waiting on two sensor less controllers.

Hopefully next week.

I got 4 sensored controllers now I cant use.

Thanks.

LC. out.

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. 30 mph is too fast on a 20" kids bike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuRM2JjXPOQ

Perhaps if the wheels were straighter and the bike did not shake as much 30 mph could be possible but I am ok with 20 to 25 mph the way it is now.

Both sensor less controllers are here. It is the last chance for the Bafang motors. If I cant get them working they are going in the dumpster and will order a 500 watt geared hub motor for the front of the Currie.

I will post a video if I get one of them working.

Thanks.

LC. out.

[markz]

Bafang motors - If I cant get them working they are going in the dumpster

[latecurtis]

FINALLY.

The little 350 watt sensor less controller failed.

Then I hooked up the Greentime controller.

At first there was nothing. I then found the ignition plug and used a broke off paper clip to jump it. I did this before with brush controllers.

I tried it again.

NOTHING !

Then I pushed in on the clip I used to jump the ignition wire.

SUCCESS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Bafang motor came to life.

I have not hooked the throttle up yet. Just the self study plug.

I have to test the other motor now and then hook up the throttle and permanently hook up the phase and power wires.

I will test the other Bafang Motor.

I really want to run the Greentime controller with the Bafang motor on the front of the Currie but the Greentime controller is 1,000 watts and ordered it for the 1,000 watt direct drive on the back of the 26" dual suspension.

35 amps is way too much current for a Bafang motor. Not sure what I can do. I have a 16 amp BMS for 36V or 10S but still quite a ways off building a 10S pack. That could take a week or more.

I could run both motors off the Greentime controller. That can not be done I was told but I do not see why not. The only thing hooked up with a sensor less controller is phase wires. All I would need to do is hook up the phase wires from both Bafang motors to the controller. The throttle would turn both motors. There is no way even a smart controller can tell it is two separate motors as the Bafang motors are identical.

That would be fine on a different bike but am NOT willing to take the chain drive off the back of the Currie. That 750 watt gear reduction motor is perfect for climbing steep hills. I may order two more Bafang motors if both of these work. Then I can build the 26" Dimond Back Outlook. It is a very light frame and would be perfect for two Bafang motors. I really want to run the Currie though. Not sure how to limit the motor to < 20 amps without using my BMS.

I could unhook the SONA packs from my old 10S - 10P pack but they are all paralleled up and good for about 15 miles or so. They are really old so separating them now would make them about useless. I would be lucky to get 3 or 4 miles out of them.

Not sure what to do. I guess I need to get working on that 10S pack for my 16 amp BMS. I would order another Greentime controller 20 amps or less but basically took forever to get that one here. The slllooooooooooooooooooooow boat from China. I bet if they were shipping COVID21 they would put it on a speed boat and would be here in a day or two.

Thanks.

LC. out.

[latecurtis]

I got both motors working off the greentime controller with the throttle.

Theoretically it should be 17.5 amps to each motor but when I get into the throttle I hear a rumbling noise. Not sure. The motors might be getting too much power. Not sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT1XkGcbWxc

They are not under load and supposed to be 36 volt motors. You can't hear it in the video but I heard it. Kind of a low rumbling noise. I don't hear it at low throttle though.

Let me know what you think when you watch the video.

I would like to try the bike out. I already installed the motors. I have to mount the controller.

That is the only controller that would work. I do not want to order another Greentime controller as it takes way too long to get here.

Looks like less than 40 pounds with both motors. I knew the Outlook was a lightweight. Easy to carry up and down the stairs. I want to keep both motors on that bike and order a new front hub motor for the Currie.

I am not hooking the controller up permanently yet.

I just ordered a 12 amp 350 watt controller from Amazon and a 3 wire thumb throttle. Looks like a month before delivery. April 19 to May 10.

I need to finish the 10S pack. The BMS is 16 amps so might keep the motors from burning out but then they will both only get 8 amps, That is not enough power.

They could be getting too much power with the 35 amp controller even though it is running both motors. Not sure.

I really wanted one of those motors on the front of the Currie though. If I were to hook up a smaller 10S pack to the 35 amp controller then the controller would not be able to draw as much current right ?

IMG_0096.JPG (4.81 MiB) Viewed 203 times

IMG_0097.JPG (4.61 MiB) Viewed 203 times

IMG_0098.JPG (4.69 MiB) Viewed 203 times

IMG_0100.JPG (4.95 MiB) Viewed 203 times

They are all in parallel and all were bought in 2020 I think. It may have been 2019 but are way newer than the old packs. If I were to split them up I could hook up one 4.4 Ah 158 Wh pack to the 35 amp controller. The BMS in the pack should limit the current so I do not burn out the motor right ?

Once the new 12 amp controller shows up in a month I could hook that up to the Currie and run both 158 Wh packs in parallel and use the Greentime 35 amp controller on the DimondBack outlook with the 10S - 6P - 16 amp pack I am building. I can order two more Bafang motors so can have two on the Dimond Back Outlook and one on the Currie plus a spare motor.

download (3).png (39.62 KiB) Viewed 199 times

That is the specs on a 4.4 Ah pack on e bay. Not the specs for my 4.4 Ah packs but should be similar specs.

That really don't make any sense. It says 158.4 watts but if the discharge is 20 amps * 36V = 720 watts ? I really don't get it.

Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out.

[Chalo]

You can't run two brushless motors of the same controller-- at least not under any significant load. The have to have separate controllers, but they can use the same battery and throttle.

If you use those hoverboard packs, you'll need to cushion them from each other and from the rack bars. They bounce around a lot when under way, and cells can be damaged. I use pieces of closed cell foam, sometimes taping them in place as necessary.

[tomjasz]

45mm 3000W dd hub motor bare, new
$350
Listed 11 hours ago in Bellevue, WA
Message
Details
2T (17 RPM/volt) very fast winding dd hub motor. Just the bare hub motor.
Similar to MXUS 3K Turbo.
Will need a very powerful controller to run it. 48V in a 26" wheel would net top speeds around 40 mph. 72V in a 24" wheel about 55 mph with enough phase current.
Bellevue, WA
Location is approximate
Seller Information
Barent Hoffman
Endless Sphere Facebook Sales

[markz]

36V x 4.4Ah = 158.4Wh

36V x
15A - nominal = 540W nominal
20A - max continuous discharge = 720W max cont. dis.
30A - max = 1080W maximum

That really don't make any sense. It says 158.4 watts but if the discharge is 20 amps * 36V = 720 watts ? I really don't get it.

[latecurtis]

download (2).png (457.75 KiB) Viewed 168 times

Will the BMS protect a Bafang motor from over current when using the 35 amp Greentime controller.

You can't run two brushless motors of the same controller-- at least not under any significant load. The have to have separate controllers, but they can use the same battery and throttle.

I believe you as I heard a noise when I shot the video but am curious as to the reason why. It is sensorless and even if it was sensored the motors are exactly the same. All the wires phase and sensor. It should work.

I am looking for a scientific explanation. It would seem to me that especially with a sensorless controller that two 350W motors would be the same as a single 700W motor as far as the controller goes.

I will end up ordering two 18 amp greentime controllers as well as two more Bafang motors. I promised 1 as a gift to someone and really want to run both on the DimondBack outlook and one on the front of the Currie.

45mm 3000W dd hub motor bare, new
$350
Listed 11 hours ago in Bellevue, WA
Message
Details
2T (17 RPM/volt) very fast winding dd hub motor. Just the bare hub motor.
Similar to MXUS 3K Turbo.
Will need a very powerful controller to run it. 48V in a 26" wheel would net top speeds around 40 mph. 72V in a 24" wheel about 55 mph with enough phase current.
Bellevue, WA
Location is approximate
Seller Information
Barent Hoffman
Endless Sphere Facebook Sales

Two problems.

1.) It is not a kit. I have to order a controller which could be an issue like the Bafang motors are. I know now that the Bafang motor will work with Greentime controllers but wasted a lot of money on other controllers.

2.) I cant build the wheel and the last bike shop that put a hub motor on a new rim did a terrible shit job.

I would rather spend closer to 500 bucks with the wheel build and a controller.

I am looking daily at different motor kits but am not going under 5 killowatts. 3 to 5 killowatts works but 5 to 8 killowatts is better. Also I don't plan on running 72V or higher to get to 40 mph and do not even know if I am brave or stupid enough to go faster than 40 mph so the hub kit I order would need to hit 40 mph at 53V or 13S as I can order a second 13S - 7P pack exactly like the one I have or build a 13S - 10P pack out of 130 - 18650 cells to run in parallel with my factory 13S - 7P pack.

I am not looking to build 16S or 72V packs to go 40 mph so when I do order a hub motor kit it must be rated at 40 mph@13S. Not 16S or higher.

I am defiantly ordering a 40+ mph hub kit though when the stimulis money shows up next month which is only a few days away.

Thanks.

LC. out.

[markz]

You dont want your BMS to be always kicking in and out when you reach LVC
Be better to have the controller be kicking in and out the LVC.
If your max continuous is 20A 36V for the cells of the battery. Then 20A for the BMS would work.
Remember you want to look at MAX, not Nominal. I believe your max was 20A, your nominal was 15A, so going full throttle the controller will be asking for 20A. I will have to reread it just to busy. Oh I see you added more text, will get back to you on that, Chicken Wings are almost done

But I'd say ideally I would want 40A battery cells, lets say 10S2P for a 25R 18650 cell, 35A BMS and a 30A controller.
You see the decreasing #'s 40A to 35A to 30A, insert your own #'s. Safety margins.

----------

Its been talked about in other threads about 2 motors one controller. The timing and ignition of the phases would reek havoc without some really sophisticated and costly controller design.

btw the chick wings were so-so, salt & pepper aint my favorite flavor. I am waiting on some M&M Meats curly fries. Just getting used to the toaster oven, I bet some could rock it and know all the ins and outs. I like the quick clean up.

----------

Even Doctorbass used 2 controllers.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=78928&p=1263790&hilit=2wd#p1263790

Search - search.php?keywords=2wd&terms=all&autho ... mit=Search

[latecurtis]

OK.

That makes sense I guess.

I will need to be patient I guess.

The greentime controller is a 35 amp controller and will burn out the Bafang motors.

Once I find out WHY the 35 amp controller wont work well with two hub motors I am thinking there may be an electric circuit that can be wired in between the 3 phase wires and the controller to make the controller see a single 700 watt load instead of separate 350W loads. The function of the circuits would be to split the current from the controller in half so each motor would have a 17.5 amp limit.

I need to find out why that is not happening naturally and the scientific reason why two hub motors and a single controller will fail under load.

I am not just an e bike builder. I am a curious person and want answers that make sense to me.

I attended a community college part time in 95 and 96 and 2006. I needed 14 credits so am an under graduate. Electrical technology was my major. I studied different circuits so will be surprised if something like this wont work to allow two hub motors off a single sensor less controller if the motors are identical.

Thanks.

LC. out.

[markz]

Do not get your hopes up on 2 motors one controller. Its highly unlikely because the motors need to be fired at precise times even on sensorless and what happens when the 2 motors line up their firing sequences to closely and dont expect a cheap controller to be that sophisticated (Very complex or complicated), generic controllers are dumb, not smart. Then theres the whole back emf thing.

[latecurtis]

Then theres the whole back emf thing.

Ok.

That is where you lost me.

However is the explanation I might be looking for.

This is what I think.

I think that if two identical motors factory built and BRAND new with the exact same length of the phase wires for the same resistance that it would work paralleling the phase wires to a sensor less controller.

The reason why the two Bafang motors wont work is they are both used motors and have slightly different specs. as they do not have the same wear and tear or miles. Also I used different length wires for the phase connections which means the resistance is slightly different going to each motor.

That is my hypothesis. However any further information like what emf is by definition is appreciated.

I have to deposit some funds to order two 18 amp greentime controllers. I ordered a cheap 12 amp but am thinking I will use it for test purposes as the little 350 watt controller with the speed knob showed no sign of life at all. A waste of money and am not bothering to return it. I might get into drones , robotics and RC motors. It could just be the phase wires are different but do not like playing around with phase or sensor wires.

I have two 16 amp controllers that are not sensor less which wont work at all. I guess if I felt like switching sensor wires around I could get it to work but could damage the motor. I would need a factory spec. sheet explaining the sensor wiring diagram. I am surprised and disenchanted that the 9 pin motor wire adapter failed to get the sensor wires correct.

Not sure why either. There must be more than one hub motor manufacturer that uses the 9 pin motor wire. I thought it was just Bafang but if that were the case than the Bafang motor should have worked with at least one of the sensored controllers I hooked up to it which was three different controllers.

1.) the 36V brushless controller DAN sent.

2.) the e bikeling controller I spent 50 bucks on and 30 for a display module I smashed with a hammer after it failed miserably.

3.) the 16 amp sensored controllers also 16 amps I ordered from Wish.com.

Obviously all those controllers can not be faulty so the blame has to be on the two 9 pin motor wire that plugs into the motors. One was on the e bikeling controller I smashed as I cut it off before throwing the smashed controller out. The second was a 9 pin extension wire commonly found online that extends a 9 pin motor wire and is supposed to enable use with a non display controller which don't have a 9 pin motor wire.

They are selling these WRONG 9 pin wires which are obviously NOT compatible with Bafang motors online and they need to either stop selling them or start producing them with the correct sensor wires so they will work with Bafang motors.

There are 5 sensor wires so a lot of different possible wires to switch around. I am not doing it unless I know exactly which wires that need to be switched. I am not doing trial and error but would really like the answer as I have three possible sensored controllers I can not use and am spending more money on sensor less controllers when I should NOT have to.

Thanks.

LC. out.

[markz]

I dont know, but there has been lots posted on ES about 2wd using one controller.
Some hub motors use 6 phase wires, and there was talk about using 2 controllers. The opposite of what you want.

[latecurtis]

Some hub motors use 6 phase wires, and there was talk about using 2 controllers. The opposite of what you want.

OK now that makes sense.

The Bafang motors must be using 6 phase wires as it is a 9 pin plug. Not an 8 pin.

That would explain why none of the brushless controllers would work.

It still don't explain why the 9 pin motor extension wire has 8 wires coming out of it. 3 phase and five sensor. NOT 6 sensor.

Then there is the fact where in hell is a sensored controller with 6 phase wires. I have never seen one.

As to what I want. Well to start I would like to use the two 16 amp controllers I ordered from Wish.com.

I would like to know the truth behind the mystery of why the Bafang motors will NOT work with any sensored controller I hook up to it.

Is there an extra sensor wire needed to run Bafang motors ? Or is there a way to find out which of the five sensor wires are wrong.

I guess I will order two 18 amp sensor less controllers from Greentime but will be waiting at least a month to get them and in the meantime can't run either of the Bafang motors I currently own.

But since I plan on ordering two more Bafang motors then it would be a great idea to solve the mystery with the sensor wires so I can hook up the two 16 amp controllers I ordered from wish.com and hook them up to both Bafang motors on the Dimond Back Outlook,

As far as the Currie I have a spare fork out in the van. I am thinking about having it installed and getting rid of the forks I fixed on the Currie and then ordering a 500 watt 22 amp geared hub motor kit for the front. I think I saw one for 130 bucks. I need to look but for less than 150 bucks a 500 watt geared front hub motor is way better than a 350 watt cheap 12 or 16 amp Bafang Chinese junk motor.

If I order a kit I will still be ordering two more Bafang motors as I promised someone a Bafang motor and need at least one as a spare for the Dimond Back outlook. The outlook will be a good reliable daily commuter as it is really light. Less than 40 pounds with both motors. Probably not great for steep hills but that is ok. I can walk up a hill and burn a few calories or can take one of my powerful chain drive deals.

Thanks.

LC. out.

3 / 20 / 21.

download (4).png (32.4 KiB) Viewed 127 times

I ordered two in case I can't get the two 16 amp sensored controllers to work . I still can not test the Bafang motors under load as will damage the motors with 35 amps. At least I know they work but not ordering more Bafang motors until I run them under load.

[markz]

Oh nooooooooooooo
no no no no no
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh

A select few, very minimal number of hub motors come with 6 phase wires with 6 big wires coming out of the motor.
Your bafang is a normal 3 phase hub motor.

I just threw that out there as something intriguing that you or someone else might want to search ES for. John in CR talked about it. I found it intriguing and cool.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6241&p=1486452&hilit=phase#p1420793

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=46898&p=1459493&hi ... e#p1459493

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=95487&p=1399136&hi ... e#p1399136

[latecurtis]

You can't run two brushless motors of the same controller-- at least not under any significant load. The have to have separate controllers, but they can use the same battery and throttle.

I know Chalo runs Bafang motors.

I still can not figure out why the Bafang motors will not work with any sensored controller I have hooked up to it then.

If someone knows something I am doing wrong I would love to know as could get the Dimond Back Outlook running with both Bafang motors now. I would like to use the 16 amp sensored controllers I got from Wish.com.

There are only two things I like about Bafang hub motors.

1.) They are light.

2.) They are geared and not DD. ( small and stealthy)

Other than that they are expensive junk and never will pay more than 50 bucks a motor delivered thru Battery Clearinghouse.

The DimondBack Outlook is a keeper at less than 40 pounds with dual geared hub motors.

I have the front of the Currie as well as the Haro V3. My 700c Giant Cypress hybrid needs a 700c hub kit and was thinking about a MAC or BMC Striker motor. That would make more sense. Since the Haro is 26" and getting the 3 kilowatt brushless chain drive on the back a Bafang motor up front would make it more city street friendly. Brushless chain drives are like bucking Broncos. The throttles are very sensitive and when you hit bumps in the road the bike has a tendency to lurch forwards. I know that riding the 1,800W brushless motor with the 1,500 watt controller.


Therefore it is very important to solve the Bafang motor mystery. Why in the hell won't the Bafang motors work with a sensor controller. It is just not right and so far nobody has that answer.

Thanks.

LC. out.

[markz]

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=81549&p=1199752&hi ... d#p1199752

If you mean a BLDC motor, Nope. Can't be done. BLDC are run by a computer that fires the coils in much the same way a car's engine fires the spark plugs. The controller senses the motor's position and then fires off each phase at exactly the right time to send the motor the right direction around efficiently. Get the timing a little off, and you stall it, or melt it, or cause it to spin backwards, or a combination of all three.

the wheels on a bike will never stay indexed to each other exactly. your front wheel always travels further through a turn. Even going in a straight line, the tiny corrections of the front wheel to maintain balance can lead to as much as a 5% difference in distance traveled. and tires compress with different loads on them, making their diameter smaller and their RPM higher for the same distance traveled. there is just no way to have two motors perfectly in sync for a controller.

[latecurtis]

Ok. I got it. Only brush can run more than one motor per controller.

I still need to know why only sensor less controllers work for my Bafang motors and why that 9 pin connecter cable does not work.

By process of elimination it just cant be the controllers. The two from Wish.com are brand new and I suspect the one Dan sent probably works also.

three different sensored controllers failed. The e bikeling I smashed with a hammer , The controller Dan sent and the brand new Wish controllers. I wish they would work.

It will be at least a month before the 18 amp sensor less controllers show up so if it is at all possible to get the Bafang motors on the 26" Dimond Back working with the two 17 amp sensored Wish controllers that would be a great accomplishment. Then I can ride it and test both Bafang motors under load and if they work well I can order two maybe even 4 more Bafang motors and use the greentime controllers when they show up. That way I did not waste as much money as not sending the Wish controllers back. I only paid 11 bucks each for them.

I did a google search with the numbers on the motor.

https://www.atmparts.eu/p24_eu/eshop/en ... G020.350.D

It don't look like these motors but most of the numbers match.

I am providing clear pictures.

Lets see who can solve the Bafang motor mystery.

If someone knows how to get the Bafang motors to work with the sensor wires please post. It is a mystery that needs solving.

Thanks.

LC. out.

[Chalo]

Hook both controllers up to the same battery, and each one to its own motor. Connect the black and [other color] wires from your throttle to the controllers, but only one red wire from a controller to the throttle.

[latecurtis]

Hook both controllers up to the same battery, and each one to its own motor. Connect the black and [other color] wires from your throttle to the controllers, but only one red wire from a controller to the throttle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPRDIYdd8AI

First I have to get the motors working.

That is what BOTH Bafang motors did when hooking one motor to one controller. A sensor controller.

IMG_0103.JPG (3.49 MiB) Viewed 100 times

That sensor controller.

I just do not know why.

I used those cables.

IMG_0871.jpg (245.42 KiB) Viewed 100 times

download.png (63.5 KiB) Viewed 100 times

They do not work. And why is there 9 pins but only 8 wires. 3 phase and 5 sensor.

In case you missed it I did get both motors to work off a 1,000W greentime 35 amp controller but one of the motors started making a deep rumble noise when I got into the throttle. I did not want to damage the motors so unhooked it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT1XkGcbWxc

I ordered two 18 amp Greentime controllers but 4 to 6 weeks delivery so if I can get the motors to work off the sensored controllers I got now it would be great.

Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out.

[Chalo]

And why is there 9 pins but only 8 wires. 3 phase and 5 sensor.

Minimum for a BLDC motor is eight wires-- three phases, +5V and GND for the sense wires, and three Hall sensor signal wires. The extra wire can be used for a thermal sensor or whatever other thing can share the ground connection.

[latecurtis]

Ok.

I still don't know why the Bafang motors will only work with no sensor wires hooked up which requires a sensorless controller.

Do you use a sensor controller or sensor less ????????

I have three sensored controllers now. two brand new and wont work with the Bafang motors. I have no clue what to do with them if I can not get them to work.

Nobody seems to know why. It really makes no sense to me. The sensor wires are color coded. The 9 pin motor extension wire is made to hook to 9 pin motor wires. The other 9 pin wire was cut off from the $50 e bikeling controller I bought brand new that did not work. It got smashed along with the display module. neither wire works.

There has to be a reason and a solution. I would really like to find out what that reason and solution is.

Again does anyone have a clue ??????????????????????????????????

Thanks.

LC. out.