new eZip motor

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latecurtis   1.21 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Apr 02 2021 9:54am

Got enough 36V batteries? 36V 14Ah! got 6 @ $55 each delivered.
WOW.

Sounds great.

Yea. I am defiantly interested. I am building packs but taking a long time.

If you post the link I will order some.

I got a lot of motors that run 36V. four geared hub motors and two chain drives that are rated at 36V.

That is a no brainer.

Thanks and please post the link.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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DrkAngel   100 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Apr 02 2021 10:36am

latecurtis wrote:
Apr 02 2021 9:54am
DrkAngel wrote:
Apr 02 2021 9:45am
Got enough 36V batteries? 36V 14Ah! got 6 @ $55 each delivered.
WOW.

Sounds great.

Yea. I am defiantly interested. I am building packs but taking a long time.

If you post the link I will order some.

I got a lot of motors that run 36V. four geared hub motors and two chain drives that are rated at 36V.

That is a no brainer.

Thanks and please post the link.

LC. out.
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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Apr 02 2021 12:01pm

Last edited by DrkAngel on Apr 03 2021 8:27pm, edited 1 time in total.
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markz   100 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Apr 02 2021 2:38pm

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=103549&p=1514564&hi ... d#p1514564
Wiring configs are a simple problem with a simple solution that I explained in a few sentences. I could do it blindfolded, so anyone can do it.
^I added the hyperlinked text, plus I deleted the first sentence for obvious reasons.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Apr 02 2021 4:04pm

I feel... a magic coming over me. Yes! Yes! I have the sight of Baba Yaga now, I can see the future!

My first vision:

LC gets the sensorless controller. It works well without load, and also because during testing, the motor can provide accurate feedback, because it always spins from standstill and the clutch disengaging js not one of the test cases. Even if he does try spinning the wheel by hand and engaging the throttle from a "rolling start" without load, the currents are kept within spec and everything is hunky dory.

Then, LC tries it in a real world situation. It starts well from stand still. But then, in a different scenario, when the wheel is spinning, but the clutch means the motor itself is not spinning, there is no back emf to act as a sensor, so after cruising down a hill his first throttle engage might work by pure luck, or it guesses the position wrong so the controller does one of two things: it goes into over current protect mode, or it blows the controller.

Either way, LC blames the parts. He has a genuine but mistaken belief that the seller is a crook and demands a refund. He rants here, and is given advice, but doesn't listen. He vows to give up eBikes for a while, but the commitment doesn't last.

Thus spake the spirit of Baba Yaga.

Really, I am not looking forward to LC receiving those controllers. Let's see if the future can be changed.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 Died... Electrified Ninja in Progress!
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Warramty expired. Still not game!
eHouse: 6.2kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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latecurtis   1.21 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Apr 02 2021 4:37pm

Then, LC tries it in a real world situation. It starts well from stand still. But then, in a different scenario, when the wheel is spinning, but the clutch means the motor itself is not spinning, there is no back emf to act as a sensor, so after cruising down a hill his first throttle engage might work by pure luck, or it guesses the position wrong so the controller does one of two things: it goes into over current protect mode, or it blows the controller.
I did not realize that was possible. Is that just geared hub motors or Direct drive as well. I bought a 35 amp Greentime controller for the 1,000W direct drive I got from you. I ordered it in case the sensor wires fail again. I had a broken one and took the motor apart and soldered the wires. It is working for now with the stock sensored controller but if a sensor wire breaks again was going to switch to sensorless.
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I should have that working sometime tonight with the sensored controllers I have now. I wont need to wait for the Greentime controllers. I have two sensored controllers and two Bafang motors. Also the Greentime controllers can be run sensored OR sensorless.

The price for the Bafang motors is $50 delivered when you order 2. The Wish.com 17 amp controllers I will be hooking up tonight only run with sensor wires but are only $11 each delivered so if the motor in that picture works with it then it is $61 to run each Bafang motor. That's not bad. Battery Clearinghouse has a lot more I think. Not sure if all the same model though. I do not want 250 watt motors.

What I really need to order is a lot more of those solderless connecters DA. posted. I ordered 50 thinking it was enough. I need like 100 and different sizes. I need smaller ones for sensor wires 22 gauge and thinner.

Thanks for the info. I will keep that in mind. I think the stimulus money is in today. Not sure. I know I need flux and shrink tubes so I can solder those wires.

By looking at the picture of the plug cut off it should work now. All I need to do is match the wires up and solder and it should work fine right ?

If not then sensorless is the only option as the sensors inside the motors are bad. But they could be replaced if needed. I know you can order parts for Bafang motors and I watched a you tube video about rebuilding them.

I not only ordered two sensorless greentime controllers but also ordered a 12 amp sensorless controller but any of them can be run with sensor wires.

It is why I am considering ordering at least two more Bafang motors. But not if the sensors are bad. That would be a deal breaker.

I still want a decent 3D printer. I am not giving up on belt drive conversions.

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

markz   100 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Apr 02 2021 5:26pm

I should have that working sometime tonight
Does that depend on how much you drink?

Yes GT cont can be either sensored or sensorless, but its always wise to have two of the sensorless, and three throttles as spares, and two soldering irons, and as I mentioned previously pages back lots and lots of connectors.

Damn how much stimilus money are you getting? Seems like every month your getting free money. I will have to re-look into that, maybe I can get some more free money from Uncle Sam as well.

The good news is:
At least you are trying. To many people just whip out there credit card at the counter with the cashier machine and dont bother. Which is fine, some people dont have the time to take a few hours out of their day to build their own ebike and maintain it. But hey, thats why the local bicycle stores are open. I guess in some respects it can be daunting. You got a big hub motor with a wheel attached, a small box and a throttle with a lot of wires. It can be over whelming. Some never having soldered before, some never even trued a wheel while some dont even know what a socket wrench means, let alone a Phillips, Robertson, Torx screwdriver.


latecurtis wrote:
Apr 02 2021 4:37pm
I should have that working sometime tonight with the sensored controllers I have now. I wont need to wait for the Greentime controllers. I have two sensored controllers and two Bafang motors. Also the Greentime controllers can be run sensored OR sensorless.


Thanks for the info. I will keep that in mind. I think the stimulus money is in today. Not sure. I know I need flux and shrink tubes so I can solder those wires.

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latecurtis   1.21 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Apr 02 2021 6:53pm

Well I just got back from the cannabis store. I got a sweet deal.

The hardware store is not happening tonight so no flux.

I can still hook the wires up though and put just enough tape so no bare wires are touching.

I have enough solderless connecters for the 3 phase wires.

I need to test it and if it works can pick up the solder and shrink tubes tomorrow.

Wall-Mart used to sell flux but not any more. Home Depot is the only game in town and not going there tonight.

If the hub motor turns with the wires hooked up I will post a video. I do not start drinking until after midnight usually so have a lot of time to work on it sober. I was pretty drunk and aggravated when I cut off that plug.

Basically I could never ever in 100 years strip those small sensor wires with a wire stripper. I use my teeth. I never brush my teeth and only lost one when I was about 25 years old and am now 55 almost 56.

I started in the early 80s dealing with speaker wire hooking up speakers in my living room and then subwoofers in my cars and vans. I hardly ever use wire strippers. I did heat up the spot I wanted to strip with the sensor wires though as they are so thin I did not want to break them but 18 or 16 gauge wire I can strip with my teeth in about a second.

I really hope the sensors in the motors are not bad. I suspect they are as those 9 pin cables should have worked. There was even an arrow on both the motor wires and extensions so I know they were plugged in right.

I hope I am wrong but for that cheap price $80 for two motors and $20 shipping It could be that. Also they did not sell them out. they still have a lot of Bafang motors left.

I will know real soon what the story is.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEpbSALSqWI&t=5s

Thanks.

LC. out.
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

markz   100 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Apr 02 2021 9:34pm

I like the way you wrap the wires around the insulation as well.
:thumb:
No, not on just one wire, but on ALL the wires. Blue, Yellow, Green on both the phase and halls, plus the red, and black. Damn thats a lot of wires to deal with, 8 wires.
I assume that is a technique where you apply the solder to the wire for some wire on wire bonding action, then untwist the unsoldered wire to snip it off. But the dilemma would be the solder soaking or wicking upwards past the wire on wire bonding, whicking overtop of the wire wrapped around the insulation, making it difficult to bend back to snip off. Not that it really matters, since I assume you will be using the trusted electrical tape and hopefully more then 1 wrap. And I hope you dont have any jagged edges on the wire you snip off, because thats always a problem when you snip soldered wire. Thats if you snip off the stranded wire, or will you be leaving it and just taping over? So many questions I have. Another question is, are you using the 8 or 9 pin that picture attachment thats posted? I'd assume the wire you used is to thick, unless your doing the same soldering job, with a pig tailed 8 or 9 pin connector. I'd honestly hate trying to solder wire onto that connector, thats why I to like pig tailed connectors where the connector already comes with wires attached then you just got to do some wire on wire soldering action. Twist twist twist, solder. You know when someone has done it lots when those wraps and twists are tight and uniform. I dont see that in the pic provided. Practice makes perfect! I just hate how that technique sometimes that can lead to big bumps on the wire. The wire aint even no more, can run into problems not matching wire gauges and all, keeping it all uniform. I like the way you also use smaller gauge (thicker wire) attached to the thin wire. Gotta use whatever you got! :thumb:

Overtime everyone has their own techniques, everyone has their preferred connectors to use. I just hope since your hardwiring the motor wires that you leave enough slack so you can change a tire. Hey thats the way I do it because I get fed up with my fat fingers trying to solder wire into the connector cups for soldering. Yes, me lazy.

Yes I assumed you are hard wiring the motor to the controller, but your 8/9 pin connector pictures you edited in tells me you might be using that. But gosh thats a lot of work, lots of added thickness bump to the wiring harness with the mismatched wire gauges. Two spots you'll have that bump wider. And will you be taping all 8 wires together with electrical tape? Its good for added protection but it can be bad to if theres a jagged solder that pokes through the electrical tape. I would just tape all the joints together, but then you still have 8 wires hanging loose. Spiral wrap is available, I never use it. I would just tape it all, the whole length. But then if you have to take it all apart, it can be a pain.

And that does look like speaker wire to me, black insulated speaker wire that you cut the 2 conductors separate with a knife right down the middle of the bonded insulation. Many a time I take a knife down the center of speaker wire.
BONDED comes in 2+ conductors, speakers obviously 2
I found some smaller gauge 18/20+g https://www.be-electronics.com/product_p/pw22-25.htm
as opposed to MULTI-CONDUCTOR CABLE https://www.be-electronics.com/product_p/e3038s.htm
but its whatever you have available. Single wires get the job done to, hook up wire. Be sure its always stranded though! :thumb:
latecurtis wrote:
Apr 02 2021 6:53pm
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99t4   100 W

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by 99t4 » Apr 02 2021 10:46pm

99t4 wrote:
Apr 02 2021 2:06am
PS: Do my posts help you at all? Please let me know. Otherwise I will be happy to stop wasting my efforts.
OK, got the message. I will get out of your thread.

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latecurtis   1.21 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Apr 02 2021 10:48pm

And that does look like speaker wire to me, black insulated speaker
18 gauge black wire from Wall-Mart for the sensors and 16 gauge AC extension wire. It is like 2 bucks at Wall Mary for 6 feet and 3 bucks for 9 to 12 feet.

To be honest I could put it together without soldering. Just cut a strip of electric tape in three thin strips about 8 to 10 inches long and wrap each connection real good.

I have no kids or dogs and cats. The only way it could come apart is if someone tried playing tug of war with it so if put out of the way or tucked into a frame rack so no sticks or bushes could snag on it then it will never come apart.
PS: Do my posts help you at all? Please let me know. Otherwise I will be happy to stop wasting my efforts.
OK, got the message. I will get out of your thread.
You are welcome here as much as anyone else. I just did not feel like swapping wires around. It may be ok for you and people who have successfully did it before but I like the KISS method. Keeping it simple as I am a little stupid sometimes when it comes to some things. HOWEVER I was 100% correct when I thought about cutting those plugs off as soon as I got the motors. It would have saved me about 100 to 130 bucks and 4 or 5 months of time.

It really was nobody's fault. Da thought an e bikeling controller would work as it was a 9 pin female connecter to plug in the male 9 pin from the motors. Almost anyone would assume that it would work. I did. I thought that 9 pin female extension cable would work also but that was wrong as well. If I were to blame anyone it would be Battery Clearing house. They should have stated that they don't work with many 9 pin controllers or cables or just cut off the 9 pin plugs before selling them.


I want a triangle rack but do not want to cover up the DimondBack stickers. If the motor on the front works with the other wish controller which it should as both motors and controllers are exactly the same then I am keeping both wheels on the DimondBack and ordering four more Bafang motors.

1 for the Currie. 1 for the Haro V3 and a spare + 1 as a gift to someone I promised it to. I have the two 18 amp Greentime controllers coming and another sensorless 12 amp controller but think I will use that for testing hub motors as 12 amps is not enough.

I will order two more of those wish controllers as they are 17 amps. It seems to have decent power going by the video but the real test is under load. If they pass that test I will order 4 more motors right away.

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Sunder   1 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Sunder » Apr 02 2021 11:17pm

So how sensorless controllers work, is that it just sends a jolt through one pair of the phase wires that should get the motor going, and then read the back EMF in lieu of a hall signal to get the motor going. Then, once the motor is going, it can read the back EMF to accurately fire off the phases. (Or if it's pure sine/FOC, adjust the voltages appropriately for a nice smooth curve).

This random fire and test doesn't result in the smoothest of starts most the time, which is why top end controllers like the Phaserunner have an option for "Sensored Start, Sensorless running". Get the best of both worlds.

The problem with geared motors vs direct drive, is that your bike can be moving, but the motor is not, so that jolt is (1) going to feel rough, and (2), makes it harder to get the back EMF, because as soon as the clutch engages, the motor will be brought up to speed with the wheel multiplied by the reduction ratio. The next bit I don't really understand that well. Someone once explained it to me, but the end result is that if you don't sync it perfectly, you can trigger off an over-current condition.

Anyway, don't assume just because it works on a test bench, it will work in real life, and just because you blow the controller, don't assume it was faulty or cheap. Sensorless controllers aren't great for geared motors. (Or rather, geared motors aren't great for sensorless controllers).

With regards to 3D printing, draw some stuff on TinkerCAD, and post them up here. Then you can book some time in a community Makerspace, which usually only charges you for the filament you use:

https://cpl.org/aboutthelibrary/subject ... akerspace/

No, I don't know where you are in Ohio, or whether that's close or not, but even if you don't have a community MakerSpace, I'm sure you can find a commercial one that will only charge you a little more, but at least will have someone available to give you advice on how to improve your drawings and your prints. (Which are two very different things. You can have a perfect drawing, but if you print it the wrong orientation, suddenly all the strength is perpendicular to where you want it. Or if you choose the wrong infill pattern, etc.)
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 Died... Electrified Ninja in Progress!
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Warramty expired. Still not game!
eHouse: 6.2kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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latecurtis   1.21 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Apr 02 2021 11:38pm

Thank you SUNDER.

I have been communicating with Battery Clearinghouse. I sent them an e mail last night and they e mailed me back.


BCH - Shopify <support@batteryclearinghouse.com>
Apr 2, 2021, 10:55 AM (13 hours ago)
to me, sales

"Hey Scott,
Unfortunately we are a pretty small outfit and I spend a lot of time away from my desk so email is the best way to contacts us.
Out of 500+ sold I've had around 5 complaints related to the function of the motors, chances are it was just some incredibly bad luck if you received 2 defective wheels.
We do not test these units but I'll double check with my two customers that own bike shops and add the note on sensorless controllers if they confirm.

Thank you for taking the time to send us this feedback, I've issued you a 50% refund to help compensate for your time spent on this project."

I sent them this.

I got one running by cutting off the male 9 pin plug and hookig the wires up to a cheap 11 dollar controller rated at 17 amps. It is possible that a sensorless controller may not be the answer after all. The problem seems to be the 9 pin male connector as the wires do not match up with female 9 pin extension cables. At least not the cable I ordered and may not be compatible with e bikeling controllers. Also so you know most controllers that use that 9 pin connecter require a display module to even turn on the controller which is an extra 30 bucks or so. If you simply cut off the male 9 pin plug it should work with almost any cheap 10 to 20 dollar brushless controller that has the 3 phase and 5 sensor wires. I will test the other motor tomorrow and if it works I may order more motors. You say you do not test them. How do you know if they work ? I was thinking about two and maybe 4 more as the controller I got it to work with is only $11 from Wish.com and I have like 3 or 4 bikes that need motors. Please let me know.

I do not want to give anyone bad advice and after reading what you said about sensorless controllers decided to do the right thing and let them know. Yea the 50% money back may just get sent back to them for 2 or 4 more motors. I had to spend money to straighten the rim on the front and the rear is way out of true but that is minor stuff. As long as they work and nothing is burned out in them they are worth it. I do hope they cut off the 9 pin plugs though or at least state that the male 9 pin connecter may or may not be compatible with other 9 pin female plugs and controllers or at least recommend a controller they know will work. But then they do not test the motors. I am waiting for the reply as to how do they know they work. Maybe someone else tests them before they get them. he did mention a bike shop.


I will see what he says and let him know sensorless is a bad idea. If he is willing to give refunds than it is safe to say they are ligit and stand up people so defiantly be willing to order more stuff. I will make sure I let him know sensorless is a bad idea. Only good for testing purposes.

I stull want a 3D printer. I am not giving up on belt drives.
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The Currie as well as the motor on the front of the 26" dual suspension would defiantly see big improvements.

The kit could work but is like a spoke sprocket. It warps the wheels. The one on the 1,800W brushless motor is getting way out of true. Maybe 50 or 100 miles on it. A belt sprocket that bolts to a freewheel clutch is what I want. And 8 to 1 gear reduction so the motor shaft needs to be the right size. I do not know how that can be calculated let alone how to print it. I need to learn. I will look at the link you (SUNDER) posted.

I sent Battery clearinghouse the bottom pic and said sensor less controllers are only good for testing. Not running. Check out the pic. :lol:

Thanks.

LC. out.
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

markz   100 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Apr 03 2021 4:33am

Another bonus for sensored is the larger torque right off the bat compared to sensorless.

I am at 1:08 out of 2:27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c96n0Ma2rLY

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latecurtis   1.21 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Apr 03 2021 6:37am

Another bonus for sensored is the larger torque right off the bat compared to sensorless.
Well.

That makes sense.

I never ran a sensor less motor under load,

I am the type of guy though that loves to run two motors.

I am not sure but if a hub motor were up front and a chain drive in the back like the Currie a hub motor with bad sensors running in sensorless could still count towards total horsepower for the bike.

The question would be which motor throttle to engage first for the best results.

I like to build e bikes with two motors and have no problem mixing sensorless or hub with chain drives.

I agree with what SUNDER stated about GEARED hub motors performing poorly with sensorless controllers. He is a stand up guy and no reason to lie.

My question is what about Direct Drive hub motors. I have two of those. The 1,000 watt SUNDER sent and a 20 inch on the BMX Turbo bike which was around 260 bucks and called the heavy hauler by DA. No not spending 3 hours looking that up. Was around 2015 I think. . I really like that bike . It has a flat tire. I need to work on it. It is coming upstairs to the e bike workshop soon.

The thing is I have had no reason to run a hub motor sensorless besides testing so far. I have five running e bikes and when I finish the Outlook that will increase to six.

I ordered a total of 3 brushless and sensorless controllers on the way. The thing is the sensorless controllers have the option of hooking up sensor wires if possible. If not possible than I will need to decide if sensorless will work or not a good idea. From what I gather Geared hub motors are only good for testing with sensorless controllers. Not for running under load.

I am currently working on the new build. I did not expect to build the DimondBack Outlook. I had it hauled here from NY and was not on the top of my list for projects. However both front and back are perfectly compatible with these Bafang motors. The front shocks I fixed on the Currie were not the correct size from the get go for the Bafang motors. Both front and Back the Outlook is compatible with the axle size of the Bafang motors which are kind of short.

Yea I will paint it tomorrow. Black paint hides a ton of sins. That make shift triangle bracket will work. I will not call it a rack but a bracket as it suits its purpose as far as describing it, but will mount both 17 amp controllers and a 10S battery pack on the top bar. Bungee cords can hold any 10S pack in place for running the e bike.

Thanks.

LC. out.
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I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Apr 03 2021 4:52pm

Reasons to go 2wd - https://youtu.be/c96n0Ma2rLY?t=6029
Right before it talked about benefits of dd and geared and before that was talking about the hub motor myth.

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latecurtis   1.21 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Apr 03 2021 11:10pm

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I really need to get the back wheel trued at a bike shop which could be a problem as they are really busy this time of year. I would have done it over the winter but wanted to test the motor first to make sure it worked. The one on the front is trued and why I put it up front.

I decided on using the connecters for that reason plus flat tires. I like to push the wire all the way thru and then wrap it around like in the pictures. They are cheap Wall-Mart spade connecters. Not the best but if you pull them straight apart they usually wont snap. I try to avoid bending them.

The connecters in the pic that is completely covered in plastic I ordered online a whole bunch and regret it as I can not push the wire all the way thru and wrap it around. I would rather just use extra tape and know the connection is good.

I will need extra Wall-Mart connecters as if I have to unhook them and if one breaks it will only be 5 to 10 minutes to replace it.

Wall - Mart here don't carry flux anymore. That really sucks. I looked all over. It used to be in the plumbing section. I probably wont be able to get it until Monday when the hard ware store opens. I do not want to solder with no flux.

I hope to mount the controllers and test the front motor tomorrow.

I hope to be riding it by next week. Since they are both front motors I wont be able to pedal up hills so on steep hills I will get off and push. I might burn a calorie or two. :lol:

The Giant Roam has all pedal gears as it has the only rear hub kit I ever ordered on the back. The same motor that was on the 26" dual suspension for about two years. The Giant will take steeper hills as long as I can pedal assist which is not that long as not in very good shape and have that bad knee. It will go further up a steep hill than this bike will though.

They are both very light bikes. The 26" dual suspension needed more power as has is a heavy steel frame. The 1,000 watt hub motor on the back can use the extra help from the 1,000 watt chain drive on the front. If I ever do convert the front to a belt drive that bike will be a smooth powerhouse. Now it is just a noisy heavy powerhouse but with 2 kilowatts total able to take on about any hill. At least around here.

Thanks.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

markz   100 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Apr 03 2021 11:57pm

Its pretty easy to true a wheel, even with the wheel still on the bike you can true the wheel.

Remember that Youtube is your friend.
I really need to get the back wheel trued at a bike shop which could be a problem as they are really busy this time of year. I would have done it over the winter but wanted to test the motor first to make sure it worked. The one on the front is trued and why I put it up front.

markz   100 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Apr 05 2021 6:12pm

Wonder what happened to Curtis, probably eat to much ham and is "recovering" :wink:

edit 1 - Hopefully that chain didnt break loose.

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DrkAngel   100 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by DrkAngel » Apr 06 2021 12:16am

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And drinking largely, sobers us again.

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markz   100 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by markz » Apr 06 2021 4:00am

^Thats a pretty large connector, looks like a heat shrunk big anderson powerpole SB series connector.

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latecurtis   1.21 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Apr 06 2021 6:18am

OK.

I will order that. I need to put money on the card.

I cut off the plugs on both motors and hooked both to the brand new controllers I got from wish.com.

One motor works and the other just turns a little and stops like in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPRDIYdd8AI

That is an old video but doing the same thing.

All the wires are soldered and taped really good. I spent a lot of time on it. Like 9 hours or more. It is after 7 AM and started last night about 10 PM.

There really is nothing more I can do. The weird thing is both motors were doing that before I cut the 9 pin plugs off both motors but I had one motor working after cutting the 9 pin plugs off and now one motor works and the other does that.

It really makes no sense. I guess I was wrong about the 9 pin plug , the extension cable and the e bikeling controller.

When I did get the one working after cutting off the plug the first and second time I tried it there was nothing then it started working.

Both motors worked great with the Greentime sensorless controller though.

SUNDER said they will not work right with a sensorless controller.
The problem with geared motors vs direct drive, is that your bike can be moving, but the motor is not, so that jolt is (1) going to feel rough, and (2), makes it harder to get the back EMF, because as soon as the clutch engages, the motor will be brought up to speed with the wheel multiplied by the reduction ratio. The next bit I don't really understand that well. Someone once explained it to me, but the end result is that if you don't sync it perfectly, you can trigger off an over-current condition.
So now I really do not know what to do. I guess the one motor I got on the back might work with the sensor wires as it did once but the one on the front wont. What could it be ?

I really hope Battery Clearing house did send me a 50% refund as my guess is it is a bad sensor inside the motor. Since I cut the 9 pin plug off there really cant be another cause.

I do not even know how to take those motors apart. I don't see any cover screws. Should I go ahead and try to run it with one of the sensorless controllers or not ? It is either that or just throw at least one in the dumpster as don't think it is possible to take it apart and fix the bad sensor if I could even know which one is bad.

What should I do. I spent a lot of time and money and ordered a total of 6 controllers for those two motors.

1, The e bikeling controller and module I threw out after smashing it.

2. Two 17 amp sensored controllers from Wish.com.

3. Two 18 amp sensorless Greentime controllers.

4. A 12 amp sensorless controller from e bay.

I am still waiting on the two Greentime controllers and the 12 amp from e bay.

I really don't know what to do now. I think the guy from Battery Clearinghouse is a liar but hopefully he gave me a 50% refund.
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I don't know if I should try to run it with a sensorless controller or not. I guess I have nothing to lose. I really do not want to run the bike with a single motor either. I wanted dual motors with a single throttle.

It looks like I spent a lot of time building that bike for nothing. I do not want to run one motor and if one controller is sensored and the other sensorless I probably cant use one throttle.

I am out of ideas. It is beyond my skill set. I doubt I could send it out to get repaired. Where would I send it ? I just do not know.

What I do know is that Battery Clearing house are liars. The 50% refund is a joke. I spent a lot of money. $40 don't begin to cover the cost and the time spent.

How could it even be my fault. Obviously it is a bad sensor. What else could it be ? A motor with a bad sensor will work with a sensor less controller right ? So it has to be a bad sensor inside the motor. Also the guy from Battery Clearinghouse said he did not test them. How in the hell are you going to sell something you do not even know if it works or not ? I guess quality control means nothing. I really want to stomp right on that guys head. I am irate.

Thanks.

LC. out.
Last edited by latecurtis on Apr 06 2021 6:51am, edited 1 time in total.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

Blacklite   10 mW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Blacklite » Apr 06 2021 6:50am

Have you even attempted to align the hall sensors with the phase drive?

Calling people liars because of your own incompetence and inability to follow simple instructions is incredibly unfair.

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latecurtis   1.21 GW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by latecurtis » Apr 06 2021 6:59am

Have you even attempted to align the hall sensors with the phase drive?

Calling people liars because of your own incompetence and inability to follow simple instructions is incredibly unfair.
The 9 pin plug is cut off.

I have the wiring from inside the motor.

Everything is color coded.

What could possibly need to be aligned ? I would only need to do that if I did not know what the wires were coming from the motor.

What you are saying just don't make any sense to me. It did make sense before I cut the plug off but now I know exactly which wires are which. I would have to be color blind to screw it up now.

Also the other motor worked perfect a couple days ago and hooked it up the exact same way. Identical motors and controllers so what could possibly need to be aligned ??????????

Please explain what you are saying as I really don't get it.
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There is a guy that runs a Bafang geared hub motor with a sensor less controller. SUNDER said you can't. I just don't get it.

How can it be my fault ????? HOW is that. I never had a problem hooking up hub motors before I got the Bafang Junk motors. I hooked up two direct drives as well as two e bikeling geared hub motors and they all worked.

I did not have to align anything. The small yellow , green and blue sensor wires match the large yellow , green and blue phase wires. The red and Black sensor wires are always the same. Once I cut off the plug there is no guessing or alignment necessary.

Please explain how it could be my fault when Battery Clearinghouse does not even test the motors. That is incompetent.

I am done. Sick and tired of being put down and insulted on this post.

This is it for me.

LC. out.
I build e bikes. There not always pretty or practical but sometimes they work, at least for awhile. Immortality is not a dream but the future of our evolution. We were given the tools to forge our own destiny. We were created in gods image and shall evolve to live forever.

Blacklite   10 mW

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Re: new eZip motor

Post by Blacklite » Apr 06 2021 7:44am

latecurtis wrote:
Apr 06 2021 6:59am

Everything is color coded.

What could possibly need to be aligned ? I would only need to do that if I did not know what the wires were coming from the motor.

What you are saying just don't make any sense to me. It did make sense before I cut the plug off but now I know exactly which wires are which. I would have to be color blind to screw it up now.
And what if different manufacturers use different colour codes? Or there are different colour codes between production runs?

To spell it out clearly, the colour of the insulation around a wire does not guarantee it is connected to any particular part of a circuit. I could make a controller with every wire coming out white. Doesn't mean it will not work, does not mean it is defective. Just means you need to work out what is what. Like has been said repeatedly.

A good example is mains power wiring. In the US I believe the ground is green, the neutral is white, and the live is black. In other parts of the world brown is live, blue is neutral, green is ground. Same function, different colour.

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