Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by Hillhater » Sep 11 2014 11:17pm

News channels have just reported that the NSW state authorities are changing the laws to effectively make petrol motorised bicycles illegal !
OK, that doesn't affect us, however there was also a casual comment that the same changes would also outlaw any electric bicycle that is not "Pedalec" controlled, and also any capable of more than 25 km/hr (15mph) ! And possibly even non commercially sold Ebikes !!!
...that is bad news.
This is a knee jerk reaction to recent accidents and no doubt some lobbying from the influential pedestrian organisations.

I am still trying to track down some official statement to verify this crap.
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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by Sunder » Sep 11 2014 11:35pm

Damn.

May be time to add pedelec and a hidden speed limitation sensor.
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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by bowlofsalad » Sep 12 2014 12:04am

I am super skeptical that will ever be a thing. I think I'd check my sources and talk with my representative for certain. This would be an intolerable actions of a government. I'd be interested to hear the rationalization, but I am skeptical it would matter. I am sure all statements on why would either be illogical or worse. Corruption doesn't get better on its own.

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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by Hillhater » Sep 12 2014 12:22am

The news report was an interview with the State Attorney General.. Brad Hazzard,,...so its genuine !
I will find the formal statement when its published.
As i said, this is a typical "knee jerk" reaction to some recent other media exaggerated reports of accidents involving motorised bikes. 3 deaths this year were stated..(.though likely not all as a direct result of being motorised ?)
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 32#p945832
Kids ride bikes, both pedal and motorised, and cars knock people off bikes daily. This is just the authorities wanting to be seen to be doing something in response. They do not care if its relative or effective, they just want that TV/Radio sound grab. :evil:
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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by PRW » Sep 12 2014 1:13am

I found this.... says electric pedelecs still allowed.
https://au.prime7.yahoo.com/n2/news/a/- ... d-bicycles

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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by Kent » Sep 12 2014 1:34am

Well that sucks.

So how difficult is it in your neck of the woods to get your bike licensed as a moped? Seems that someone on the forum has done it and it was a hassle.
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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by TheBeastie » Sep 12 2014 1:36am

I think we should be mindful of why NYC came out with full ban on electric bikes where even having one locked up at the premises causes the premise to be fined, this is vicious hatred of ebikes that came out of seemingly nowhere.
I think its simply too many people riding them in annoying ways agitating those who have never experienced the ebike freedom.

Most people on ebikes currently are more mature people who can afford them. On a long enough timeline where lithium batteries become dirt cheap I would expect a lot more younger people to ride them and either get killed or annoy the hell out of other pedestrians/road users and get them banned all of a sudden NYC style.

I ride my ebike without a throttle attached these days, I think its considerably safer because my hands are always on the brakes, having your fingers/hands on throttle plus brakes isn't ideal.
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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by TotalConfusion » Sep 12 2014 3:32am

TheBeastie wrote: I ride my ebike without a throttle attached these days, I think its considerably safer because my hands are always on the brakes, having your fingers/hands on throttle plus brakes isn't ideal.
is this for general riding on the road or shared paths? The Pedlec i rode once i didnt like because when you started to pedal it just took off and to me thats not good enough when riding amongst people walking as you have no real way of controlling the speed, maybe different versions are better in that way but my initial thought was i dont like this and it would be easy to hit someone.

I find when im riding on a shared path with pedestrians walking im lucky if i hit more than 20km/h and being able to do what ever low speed you want like 5 to 10 km/h with my throttle is very easy and safe, i have a Tektro Dorado Ebrake on my rear so thats on the left hand side of the handle bars and using the throttle and being able to brake is very easy and safe with the set up i have.

One thing is for sure about not having a pedlec on my bike is having to run a 200 watt limit because of the throttle the law states your motor can not exceed that in any way but if you have the 250 watt pedlec it states that when taking off or going up hills the motor will exceed this limit of 250 watts but the bit i like is they dont say by how much it can go up which i think is a good thing isnt it?

Ive been looking into getting a sensor for my bike but i dont think it will fit with my isis bottom bracket as it is hard against the crank with no gap to spare.

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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by bowlofsalad » Sep 12 2014 3:48am

TheBeastie wrote:I think we should be mindful of why NYC came out with full ban on electric bikes where even having one locked up at the premises causes the premise to be fined, this is vicious hatred of ebikes that came out of seemingly nowhere.
I think its simply too many people riding them in annoying ways agitating those who have never experienced the ebike freedom.

Most people on ebikes currently are more mature people who can afford them. On a long enough timeline where lithium batteries become dirt cheap I would expect a lot more younger people to ride them and either get killed or annoy the hell out of other pedestrians/road users and get them banned all of a sudden NYC style.

I ride my ebike without a throttle attached these days, I think its considerably safer because my hands are always on the brakes, having your fingers/hands on throttle plus brakes isn't ideal.
Age has nothing to do with this, I am not sure why you brought it up, but it's probably best that you don't again. NYC primary reason for banning ebikes is theorized to relate to their taxi cab industry. It has to do with profits.

You can keep both your brakes covered and use the throttle at the same time, I do.

If anyone cares for the safety of others, cars would be the first to go, long before electric bicycles or even electric motorcycles(the two seem to get blended into one in the eyes of many). Cars are an industry that is protected by wealthy people, some are simply gullible enough to believe the bullshit they spout to excuse their actions.

"Oh no, an old woman was almost hit by a electric bicycle! That reminds me that daloris was killed by a car running a stop sign last week! Ban all electric bicycles!" Non-sense.

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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by TheBeastie » Sep 12 2014 4:02am

TotalConfusion wrote:
TheBeastie wrote: I ride my ebike without a throttle attached these days, I think its considerably safer because my hands are always on the brakes, having your fingers/hands on throttle plus brakes isn't ideal.
is this for general riding on the road or shared paths? The Pedlec i rode once i didnt like because when you started to pedal it just took off and to me thats not good enough when riding amongst people walking as you have no real way of controlling the speed, maybe different versions are better in that way but my initial thought was i dont like this and it would be easy to hit someone.

Ive been looking into getting a sensor for my bike but i dont think it will fit with my isis bottom bracket as it is hard against the crank with no gap to spare.
Its for general commuter setup, not for offroading etc. I might one day for offroading build a beastie raptor or something similar and might go throttle only with no crank at all.

Excluding the expensive CA alone all modern Chinese controllers offer pedal assist level control button/LCD displays for as low as an extra $10. If you buying a controller that can't do that then your buying old garbage controller setups for the same price and absolutely no gain.

Most people place the pedal sensor on the other side of the crank where nothing gets in the way, I agree that the pedal sensor could do with some design evolution.
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Last edited by TheBeastie on Sep 12 2014 7:04am, edited 5 times in total.
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39

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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by TheBeastie » Sep 12 2014 4:07am

bowlofsalad wrote:
TheBeastie wrote:I think we should be mindful of why NYC came out with full ban on electric bikes where even having one locked up at the premises causes the premise to be fined, this is vicious hatred of ebikes that came out of seemingly nowhere.
I think its simply too many people riding them in annoying ways agitating those who have never experienced the ebike freedom.

Most people on ebikes currently are more mature people who can afford them. On a long enough timeline where lithium batteries become dirt cheap I would expect a lot more younger people to ride them and either get killed or annoy the hell out of other pedestrians/road users and get them banned all of a sudden NYC style.

I ride my ebike without a throttle attached these days, I think its considerably safer because my hands are always on the brakes, having your fingers/hands on throttle plus brakes isn't ideal.
Age has nothing to do with this, I am not sure why you brought it up, but it's probably best that you don't again. NYC primary reason for banning ebikes is theorized to relate to their taxi cab industry. It has to do with profits.

You can keep both your brakes covered and use the throttle at the same time, I do.
Yes you can keep your fingers on brakes and throttle at same time it's just not quite as easy and your reduce your reaction time.
I personally would rather put my throttle on my bike it's more fun, but I know through personal experience that I am technically not as a good rider with it as I have my hands doing that extra bit more. What can I say, I guess I am into safety somewhat, aside from what I have said above I also decided for a commuter bike having a throttle is somewhat lazy,when I hurt my knee pretty bad a few months ago from snowboarding having my throttle would of been great but it was only bad for a month and I couldn't be bothered putting the throttle back on.
I instead just decided to stay off my ebike till my knee healed up ,and absolutely yes I don't expect to make any friends out of my personal ebike setup preferences.

I am dubious of the statement that ebikes were banned in NYC just to protect the taxi industry.
Frankly I am glad they banned petrol bicycles in NSW as it was very possible they could of grouped them with electric bikes and banned the lot, normally when governments ban things they go overboard or screw it up in some other way, its been separated now and its just something we don't have to worry about.
Last edited by TheBeastie on Sep 12 2014 7:10am, edited 6 times in total.
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39

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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by t3sla » Sep 12 2014 4:10am

There is a loophole in pedelecs where you can use a throttle to govern speed while pedaling. Think of it like precise control over the mode you are in when using an LCD with buttons
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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by LockH » Sep 12 2014 4:58am

http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/ ... ts2012.pdf


Road traffic injuries and deaths in NSW obviously littered with ebike injuries and deaths. NOT?
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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by voicecoils » Sep 12 2014 6:24am

Hillhater wrote:I am still trying to track down some official statement to verify this crap.
http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/ ... ycles.html

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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by Hillhater » Sep 12 2014 6:28am

LockH wrote:http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/ ... ts2012.pdf


Road traffic injuries and deaths in NSW obviously littered with ebike injuries and deaths. NOT?
Oh I'm sure there have been accidents involving Ebikes, but it is irrelevant since there will have been 100+ times more similar accidents involving pedal bikes! ....but they would not think of banning those ?
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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by LockH » Sep 12 2014 6:33am

Exactly. Yet cars/trucks maybe FAR more dangerous per stats.
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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by dingoEsride » Sep 12 2014 6:36am

Any community should be welcoming bicycles or powered bicycles simply because it reduces car numbers, meanwhile in Melbourne....http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-12/c ... bi/5738990
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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by dogman dan » Sep 12 2014 6:38am

What a travesty the laws you have to live with now are, making them worse? :cry:

What made them think 30 kph was so dangerous in the first place. Of course don't let small children have it, but in the USA, a 16 year old can fly an airplane!!

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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by LockH » Sep 12 2014 6:49am

Per that Wicked Pee thingee, Mike Baird (44th Premier of NSW):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Baird

"Baird has been described as a devout Christian."

(Oh oh. Re "devout" anything.)

and:
"Baird has campaigned against dangerous drinking, voted against embryonic stem research and euthanasia, and does not support same-sex marriage."

So. "Stone Age" much?
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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by Hillhater » Sep 12 2014 6:52am

Yes, we refer to it as the "Nanny State" because they are always finding more ways to protect us from ourselves ! :roll:
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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by dingoEsride » Sep 12 2014 7:25am

dogman wrote: What made them think 30 kph was so dangerous in the first place. Of course don't let small children have it, but in the USA, a 16 year old can fly an airplane!!
Good point, a bike rider going at speed is always ( well mostly) going to be more alert than a car driver at the same speed
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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by LockH » Sep 12 2014 9:30am

In local newz:
"Distracted driving is cited as a causal factor in 30 to 50 per cent of traffic collisions on Ontario, but is probably much higher due to under-reporting. Distracted Driving Kills! Using a cell phone or device capable of texting while driving can result in a fine of $155 under Section 78.1 of the Highway Traffic Act (HTA). Watching an entertainment device can result in a fine of $110 under Section 78 of the HTA.

Other forms of distracted driving can result in a charge of Careless Driving with fines ranging from $400 to $2,000, a possible licence suspension of up to two years and/or a jail term of not more than six months."

... (Says Car Manufacturers) "Quick! Add more "bells and whistles"!"
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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by mlt34 » Sep 12 2014 12:05pm

bowlofsalad wrote:I am super skeptical that will ever be a thing. I think I'd check my sources and talk with my representative for certain. This would be an intolerable actions of a government. I'd be interested to hear the rationalization, but I am skeptical it would matter. I am sure all statements on why would either be illogical or worse. Corruption doesn't get better on its own.
Unfortunately this is the reality we live with here in Israel. 25 km/h, 250 watts and only legal if its got PAS and NO HAND THROTTLE. A hand throttle makes it illegal. Ironically, lots of ebikes that are legally imported for resell come with no throttle, but if you look in the box with the pedals you'll find the throttle just waiting to be installed :lol:

Generally speaking the rules aren't enforced on the street because the cops have better things to do (if it's between my ebike being 1,400 watts and a palestinian kid throwing rocks at passing Israeli cars, you can guess which one the cop cares about more). Israeli customs DOES care, but if you can smuggle the parts in you're pretty much good…

..until the police do a city-wide sting and start plucking ebikes off the street. The most recent operation happened a few months ago. Third time in eight years. The police set up, search ebikes for big motors or hand throttles and confiscate. It's scary. I kept my ebike off the road for two weeks during the last operation. Had to ride to base on my wife's little Q85. Cops were also showing up nearly simultaneously at all the ebike shops in the capital. The shop owners that got a tip off were locking their inventory to anything that didn't move outside the store so they could claim it wasn't theirs. It was crazy, crazy I tell you…

[edit: alright I got to rambling there, but the point was that if anybody knows the lesson of "if it can happen to us, it can happen to you" then it's probably my people.]
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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by Kent » Sep 12 2014 12:22pm

These self-proclaimed "democracy's" are sounding more and more like police states.
72 V, (2x36v, 11.5 ah in series) Cellman, HS3540, 18fet Lyen, Jamis Dirtjumper Hardtail. Its streetlegal w license plate, inspection sticker.

Only by setting an example of good road manners and public courtesy can we convince the general public to take the electric bike seriously as a transportation option. Obey traffic laws!

My build: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=45706
Going legal: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=49390

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Re: Law change for motorised bikes in Australia (NSW)

Post by gogo » Sep 12 2014 12:33pm

Kent wrote:These self-proclaimed "democracy's" are sounding more and more like police states.
A police state isn't contradictory in a Democracy. It's contradictory to a strictly defined Representative Republic like the USA, however. The USA has strayed.
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