Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

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macribs   1.21 GW

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Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

Post by macribs » Dec 30 2014 7:21pm

I have decided to go for motowheels even if it comes with extra weight.
Main reason is to avoid flats and to have rims that do not crack or bulge even at high speed, and I am 120 kilo +bike.

I see a lot of people go for 17" in the rear. And I guess it makes sense for climbing and acceleration, will I be much worse off by going for 18" in the rear?

Back in my mx days we run 19"+21" back/front. So I thought I would get the same for this e-bike.
Also I think the esthetic's of a 19" or 18" is better then a 17". But I am not dead set on bigger rims.

If the rolling diameter (OD) will be too high to have motor work easier I guess I could go 18" in the rear. (mxus 3K@74v)
What about front wheel - is there any reasons not to go for 21" wheel in front? Or should I go with 19" front if 18" in the rear?

And what kind of tires do people recommend. Shinko seems to be popular, sound DS tires. What kind of width are you running in front?
Front fork DNM USD 8 - haven't got it yet so I don't know what is maximum width. If someone know max width pls share so I can start getting together rest of the parts without waiting for the fork to do measure up.

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Re: Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

Post by Ch00paKabrA » Dec 30 2014 11:30pm

I have 19" front and rear. right now my motor is in a bike rim temporarily. I put a new set of bike tires on it and after less than 1000 miles, the rear tire is almost shot.

I went with the IRC GP1 tires to keep the weight down. A pair of them is 6 pounds lighter than the shinkos because they are double ply instead of 4 ply. I received a bit of criticism because my motor is a MAC but as you stated, MACs get flats too. That was my main reason for buying them.

As far as the 21 inch tire is concerned, it will be heavier and if you look at the Motard guys, they run 17" front and rear. I think you will have an issue with pedal clearance though if you use 17".

In the Ebike Technical section there is a thread on the M/C rims and tires and all of the info you need will be there.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=55458

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Re: Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

Post by macribs » Dec 30 2014 11:50pm

Would you happen to know the weight of those IRC GP1 tires?
I guess they would work both in the back and the front. I guess 17" would be easier on the mxus 3K, but at the same time overall clearance would be higher if I go for 18" in the rear and 19" up front.
Wonder if the IRC GP1 2.75 x 19" will fit with the Dnm USD 8 fork?

So, if I go for the weight saving tires maybe I can save some weight by choosing the right rims and spokes as well?
Aluminum rims will be lighter then steel. But what about spokes? Never laced a wheel so I am not really sure about how to pick out strong quality spokes. Steel spokes or aluminum? And what gauge spoke to choose for a 120 kilo rider + e-bike?


Thx for the link, will read up.

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Re: Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

Post by amberwolf » Dec 31 2014 1:39am

I'm not aware of aluminum spokes; I don't think they'd have any of the qualities you'd need for spokes.
EDIT: a bit of googling does find aluminum spokes available, but I would guess steel is still better.


There are quite a few threads and posts about building wheels, including a recent one by Spinningmagnets that also links to some of the others.

There is also at least one specific thread about motorcycle/moped wheels and rims and tires.


OH, and for the complete wheelbuilding newbie, this
http://miketechinfo.com/new-tech-wheels-tires.htm
is good reading.

All of it.

Twice.

;)

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Re: Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

Post by macribs » Dec 31 2014 8:24am

Thx amberwolf.

One thing, if I go for moto wheel up front as well. I think a standard mtb hub will be best choice for correct axle and for fitting of rotor.
Would the wholes in the hub need to be drilled out (widened) to fit motorcycle spokes?

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Re: Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

Post by Ch00paKabrA » Dec 31 2014 9:02am

Yes, you are right about the mtb hub up front. I used 13g spokes in the front but I needed to use washers as the M/C spoke holes are for 8/9 gauge spokes. In the rear, I initially used 13g but decided to go with 12g and I am still waiting for them to be delivered.

One of the members here makes a custom spoke just for this application and nipples with large spoke heads so that you don't have to use washers. He doesn't sell the nipple separately though. Once I get the sizing correct, I will order a set. I buy cheap spokes first, then when I have the size right, I get the good quality spokes. I would rather waste $15 for a set of cheap spokes than $72 on his expensive spokes if I wind up having screwed up the calculations

The IRC GP1 19" M/C tire is about 5 pounds whereas the Shinko with the similar tread pattern is 8 or 9 pounds. I doubt you will have an issue with the fork and a 2.75" tire. I am using a Drop Off Triple and I have plenty of clearance. Most issues occur on the back as the chain stay has to be fairly narrow to accommodate pedaling but remember that the smaller tire will also move the widest part of the tire back further to a wider section of the rear triangle.

My 19" M/C rims with 2.75 tires are slightly smaller than a 24" bicycle rim with a 3.00 cruiser tire on them which is slightly smaller than a 26" bicycle rim with a mountain bike tire on it.

Here's mine with 13g spokes front and rear:
0817141410b.jpg
0817141410b.jpg (179.57 KiB) Viewed 3003 times
Good Luck with yours, I look forward to seeing some pics of them on your bike.

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Re: Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

Post by Paladin » Dec 31 2014 5:17pm

I just got a 19" shinko yesterday...just over 7lbs. and only $30 w/free shipping.

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Re: Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

Post by Kent » Dec 31 2014 5:33pm

Paladin wrote:I just got a 19" shinko yesterday...just over 7lbs. and only $30 w/free shipping.
Thanks for sharing but...

which pattern Shinko? What width? What kind of rim are you going to put it on? Source-link?
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Re: Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

Post by Paladin » Dec 31 2014 8:00pm

Attachments
fish scale.JPG
fish scale.JPG (106.26 KiB) Viewed 2971 times
244 shinko.JPG
244 shinko.JPG (71.99 KiB) Viewed 2971 times
Just over 7lbs.JPG
Just over 7lbs.JPG (61.36 KiB) Viewed 2971 times

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Re: Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

Post by Paladin » Dec 31 2014 8:49pm

Couple compare shots, for the halibut. Left to right.
19"x2.75 Shinko 244 tire
24"x3" Felt,Berm Master tire
26"x1.95" Specialized, More Extreme tire
19,24,26 inch tires.JPG
19,24,26 inch tires.JPG (99.16 KiB) Viewed 2963 times
19" Holmes MMP rim
24" Odyssey Hazard Lite rim
26" Golden Motor rim
Attachments
19,24,26 inch rims.JPG
19,24,26 inch rims.JPG (97.75 KiB) Viewed 2963 times

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Re: Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

Post by 100volts+ » Dec 31 2014 9:19pm

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Re: Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

Post by Ch00paKabrA » Dec 31 2014 10:25pm

The shinkos are definitely cheaper than the GP1s. The IRC GP1 will run you about $50 or $55 per tire at Dennis Kirk. you will save about 2 lbs per wheel and the 2 ply are easier to instal than the 4 ply. That being said, the Shinkos are great tires and the thicker side wall gives a bit more rigidity.

Give and take.

they usually go on Pro-wheel rims. You get the best deal on ebay. there used to be all colors available but now there is only yellow. But, at $35.00 and $15 for shipping, it is a good price. Think about it. For a c-note, you get a set of Prowheel rims.

I don't know about getting a different size though. the price may be much higher.

I think this may be the last ebay listing for the prowheel rims: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorcycle-Rim- ... 80&vxp=mtr

Edit, my bad: There are orange left also. if you want to search ebay, type in this exact phrase: Motorcycle Rim 1.85x19 36H and you will find them. There are plenty of colors available, just not for $50.00

Good Luck
Last edited by Ch00paKabrA on Feb 04 2015 9:12am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

Post by exe » Jan 01 2015 3:51am

Are there any 19" MC tires that have slick/smooth treads or for road use only?

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Re: Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

Post by macribs » Jan 01 2015 4:08am

Continental Conti GO 3.00-19"
Image

Continental Milestone CM1 3.00-19"
Image

Kenda does have street tires in 19".
Image

IRC Wild flare-920
Image

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Re: Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

Post by Ch00paKabrA » Jan 01 2015 9:08am

Dennis kirk lists 229 19 inch tires for sale. Most of them are street aka smooth tread:

https://www.denniskirk.com/tires-motorc ... 5685.attrs

Take your pick :D

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Re: Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

Post by macribs » Jan 01 2015 11:32am

You are right - but for e-bike use not so big selection because most of those tires as you will see is at least 4" wide.
That is 1"+ wider then what will fit most bikes - unless you have a fat bike.

Better to use 80/90-19 or 3.00-19" as terms or variations that will fit your frame. And from what I found the most common tire to find within bike width is variations of cruiser tire. Not full blown street("race") tires, more like touring tires. Or even vintage tires. Search for front tire might even help you as those tends to be more narrow then rear tires.

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Re: Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

Post by macribs » Jan 01 2015 10:07pm

I got pitched a great deal for a couple of rims, complete with tires and tubing. Both 19".
Almots brand new DS tires and at a great price, but of course there is a problem. The hubs are for motorcycle.
Front wheel still got rotor attached. And owner thinks he got the caliper too.

Don't know the weight of those hubs, rotors and calipers but if I don't use a DD hub motor it might not be too bad?
I have no idea of what kind of weight penalty I get from using moto hubs rather then mtb, and adding moto rotor and calipers will add weight also. Is this crazy? I mean will I be able to make those fit without crazy amount of machining? And will the extra weight be just too much to make it worth it?

Probably all I need to do is to shave off some of the axles to make it fit fork and swingarm?

I get them for 120 $ if I act fast - but I don't know if it will work for me. I can save a lot of money on this. Just wonder if anyone else gone this route.

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Re: Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

Post by Ch00paKabrA » Jan 01 2015 11:02pm

$120 is good for rims tires and tubes. Even if you ditch the hubs and spokes and replace the front with a bicycle hub, you are still ahead of the game. I think trying to shave down a M/C hub is probably more work than it is worth.

\good luck with what ever you decide.

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Re: Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

Post by Artur » Feb 03 2015 3:50pm

Ch00paKabrA wrote:I have 19" front and rear. right now my motor is in a bike rim temporarily. I put a new set of bike tires on it and after less than 1000 miles, the rear tire is almost shot.

I went with the IRC GP1 tires to keep the weight down. A pair of them is 6 pounds lighter than the shinkos because they are double ply instead of 4 ply. I received a bit of criticism because my motor is a MAC but as you stated, MACs get flats too. That was my main reason for buying them.

As far as the 21 inch tire is concerned, it will be heavier and if you look at the Motard guys, they run 17" front and rear. I think you will have an issue with pedal clearance though if you use 17".

In the Ebike Technical section there is a thread on the M/C rims and tires and all of the info you need will be there.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=55458

you dont need to worry about clirence with Vector frame, with bouth wheels 17" you still have planty of space! :)

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Re: Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

Post by Artur » Feb 03 2015 3:57pm

You will not have the problem with 19" and 2.75 tyre I think for 99%

Here is a fork sizes:

[img]
dnm.JPG
dnm.JPG (165.31 KiB) Viewed 744 times
[/img]

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Re: Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

Post by fritzebike » Jul 29 2015 4:08pm

Hey all,

I am building my first ebike and am setting up my rear wheel. I got the 19x1.6in MMP rim from Holmes as you guys were describing in this thread. I am looking for a tire that would fit this rim.
Paladin wrote:Couple compare shots, for the halibut. Left to right.
19"x2.75 Shinko 244 tire
24"x3" Felt,Berm Master tire
26"x1.95" Specialized, More Extreme tire
19,24,26 inch tires.JPG
19" Holmes MMP rim
24" Odyssey Hazard Lite rim
26" Golden Motor rim
I really like the shinko 244 sport tire and wanted to see if this would fit my wheel?? I noticed that the width of the tire does not fit the width of the rim.. is this because it is the width of the widest rubber and the casing will fit the rim fine? Why do they leave out the rim diameter when reporting the dimensions?

Does this mean that basically any 19" tire will fit my rim? no matter the width?

I would appreciate your input, fellow endless sphere guys
-Fritz

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Re: Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

Post by macribs » Jul 29 2015 6:27pm

Welcome Fritzebike!

You are all right Fritzebike here, no need to get worried. The width of the rim is the width from bead to bead. But you can use 2.75 or 3.0" tire with no problems.

Any 19" tires will fit your rim, but as your rim width is 1.6" the overall width of the tire when inflated and air filled might be slightly less then what it says on tires. If I remember correct those tire widths are given for 2.15" width rim.

You can use the 244 tire in 19" no problem.

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Re: Motowheels 18"+19" or 19"+21" + tire choice

Post by Eskimo » Jul 30 2015 12:56am

I am running 21" at the rear laced around DD hub. It is very hard to find lightweight 21" street tires. Current tire weighs 4.0kg sharp, inner tube 580g.
It is very bulky but very comfortable too. Huge air volume, and wears out extremely slowly. I think it will last at least 10 000km.
19" tire would be possible with slight rebuild of the rear velomobile frame, but then top speed would be problem. I have 36V controller, i am running 50,2V and can not go any higher.
19" tire would need a new controller, which is bit difficult because my kit is "antiwater"-type with thick water e-plugs all around. I would have to tear down all connections completely.
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