Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
hipergp   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 19
Joined: Dec 17 2013 9:17pm
Location: Bay Area, US
Contact:

Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by hipergp » Dec 31 2014 4:10am

Hi, I don't have many posts, but I think I'm ready to pull the trigger on a kit.... I have a Schwinn 24sp aluminum mtn Bike this will go on with v brakes and separate shifters and brake levers. The kit is http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ebikeling-Elect ... 20f1a56668 according to the ad, it's 135mm spacing with a single freewheel, so I imagine it's not the same 9C clone motor used in the majority of the sellers kits?(says a 5sp requires 150mm)

I did a search that got me nowhere, just info about the 1000w 9c clones. I like the idea of losing the rear derailleur, but keeping the frint one for soem adjustablility to climb a hill in limp home mode(breakdown, dead battery). The single rear seems like it will solve the problem of dishing or needing to buy a new shifter for a 5-6-7 freewheel, vs 8sp cassette. I know i'll need to keep the derailleur as a chain tensioner, but not overly worried about that. my mtn bike has more usable front gears for the street as I swapped the 42/32/22 for 48/38/28 years ago.

Is anyone familiar with this motor even if from a different source?

User avatar
dogman dan   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 34420
Joined: May 17 2008 12:53pm
Location: Las Cruces New Mexico USA

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by dogman dan » Dec 31 2014 6:52am

I don't think this is a 28 mm wide, 9 continent similar motor.

I'm not familiar with this motor, but it must be wider than a 9c, if you can't fit a 5 speed freewheel on it without 150 mm wide rear spacing.

40 mph on 48v? Must be wound pretty fast, or they just exaggerate. 35 amps of 48v is enough watts to go 35 mph, but 40mph would take more like 40 amps I think, assuming the winding is that fast.

User avatar
wesnewell   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7167
Joined: Jan 31 2011 6:25pm
Location: Wylie, TX, USA

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by wesnewell » Dec 31 2014 12:25pm

Very similar to this. Play the video.
http://www.leafbike.com/products/diy-bi ... t-989.html
Need Advice? https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=66302
Mongoose 26" Ledge 2.1 mtb bike $99, yescomusa.com 48V 1000W rear hub kit $200, Hua Tong 72V 40A controller $35, 10ah 24s lipo $217=~43mph, range=45 miles @ 20mph. 25K miles and still going strong.
Huffy Fortress 3.0 with MXUS 3000 4T motor, 24s lipo, 96V 60A controller. Total cost with extras <$700. Top speed ~50mph
My videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0KW4U ... _G2wQhptMg

DAND214   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3088
Joined: Aug 10 2008 8:28pm
Location: About 1200 miles south of Chicago, in sunny/rainny Port Richey, Florida!

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by DAND214 » Dec 31 2014 12:45pm

It says your choice.
"This kit can take up to a 5 speed freewheel or can be used with 16t/18t single speed gears.
5 speed freewheel requires 150mm dropout opening
single speed requires 135mm dropouts"

Sounds like all the rest, over rated.

So you need to get a freewheel, a 1 speed or more.

I would look around, most come with a freewhell. maybe not what you want but it's a start..

Dan

bionx 1954   100 W

100 W
Posts: 275
Joined: Oct 28 2009 10:59pm
Location: ottawa canada

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by bionx 1954 » Dec 31 2014 8:05pm

Hi I have a 26 in rear from Ebikeling. The rear motor I got is a 9C clone very well made, and is 135 mm, I have a 7 sp free wheel on it. The stator is 28mm and is interchangeable with a 9C, the side covers are similar but the number of holes to bolt the covers on are different. I have about 300km on my rear and no problems. The rim and spokes are of better quality than most 9C clones. Ebikeling is based in Illinois, and ship real fast. A excellent Ebay seller. I do not know if this is the same motor you are looking at. I would contact the seller to confirm dimensions.
Last edited by bionx 1954 on Jan 01 2015 3:12pm, edited 2 times in total.

hipergp   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 19
Joined: Dec 17 2013 9:17pm
Location: Bay Area, US
Contact:

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by hipergp » Jan 01 2015 2:14am

Just in case i don't like this, I like not spending much more than the initial price- ie, i think the rim will be centered and not need dishing, and i can keep my same shifters. If I'm underwhelmed, I'll go with a cassette motor like the new 9c that ebikes.ca sells, or put a bafang bbs02 on my hybrid. I just really like the idea of easy install and my schwinn with the big frame has a decent shock fork and I already upgraded the crank, and it has a HUGE amount of triangle space, with straight, round tubes. I actually intend on using SLA's, because I now work for a recycling company and get plenty of UPS's with perfectly good batteries and i can toss them back and grab new ones as I please, so I can even run 4s2p with 12v sla's and I have the space and unlimited supply.
I've only made a few posts, none recently, and I've been reading and learning(lurking) for years. This seemed like an easy way to go really fast for cheap. I stopped lurking after I bought a scooter- which got runover in a parkign lot, and then a motorcycle- which i sold due to inability to access it unless moving my truck from it's parking spot. I still ride one of my bikes, so figure the other one needs to be a ballsy ebike.

User avatar
dogman dan   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 34420
Joined: May 17 2008 12:53pm
Location: Las Cruces New Mexico USA

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by dogman dan » Jan 01 2015 7:39am

Huh, why is it so wide then? Needing 150mm for a 7 speed? Most 9c or similar motors can take a 7 speed freewheel fine in 135 mm.

bionx 1954   100 W

100 W
Posts: 275
Joined: Oct 28 2009 10:59pm
Location: ottawa canada

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by bionx 1954 » Jan 01 2015 10:47am

Hi I am sorry I stated the width is 150 mm, but it is a STANDARD 135MM, and basically a 9C rear motor clone.

User avatar
wesnewell   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7167
Joined: Jan 31 2011 6:25pm
Location: Wylie, TX, USA

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by wesnewell » Jan 01 2015 2:33pm

AFAIK 9C motors are rated ~600W. This is a 1500W motor. It not a typical 9C clone by a long shot if it's truly a 1500W motor.
Need Advice? https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=66302
Mongoose 26" Ledge 2.1 mtb bike $99, yescomusa.com 48V 1000W rear hub kit $200, Hua Tong 72V 40A controller $35, 10ah 24s lipo $217=~43mph, range=45 miles @ 20mph. 25K miles and still going strong.
Huffy Fortress 3.0 with MXUS 3000 4T motor, 24s lipo, 96V 60A controller. Total cost with extras <$700. Top speed ~50mph
My videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0KW4U ... _G2wQhptMg

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12968
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by neptronix » Jan 01 2015 2:54pm

You can tell people that your motor is whatever they want to hear.
Hi-power cycles used to sell MAC/BMC motors as 3000w - 4000w motors.
I've seen someone try to sell Crystalyte HS's as 6000w motors.

The useful information is... what are the stator dimensions, and where is your efficiency graph to prove the 1500w claim? otherwise this is just an overpowered 9C.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12968
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by neptronix » Jan 01 2015 3:44pm

http://www.leafbike.com/products/e-bike ... l-991.html

Maybe it is this newer 35mm wide motor.
Can't tell from the pictures.

Might just wanna buy from leafbike if you are interested in one of these.

I'm asking for an efficiency graph for the 1500w motor and will respond here when/if i get it.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12968
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by neptronix » Jan 01 2015 4:23pm

I asked ebikeling for some specs on the motor.

The response i got:
"I have not opened one of these 1500w motors yet but housing is about 65mm wide, it's almost 10mm wider than our 1000w motors.
Top speed is 40mph at 48v with 26" wheel."

So, i'd imagine that this really is a 35mm wide motor. And holy crap, that is a fast winding! ( similar to crystalyte HS3548 )

Not bad.. it's cheaper than a Crystalyte HS35xx and probably has a better axle. What i'm wondering about is the efficiency.
If it's ~86% efficient, ~90% efficient peak like the "1000W" leaf motor is, then that's awesome.

I called ebikeling and i got this info, which may be subject to revision as he makes more measurements:

140-145mm wide dropouts, 540rpm unloaded at 50v 10.8kv 42mph in a 26" spinning in the air on 50v ( so probably 25-37mph loaded on 48v )
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

User avatar
mwkeefer   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2263
Joined: Jun 14 2009 8:47am
Location: Malvern, PA USA

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by mwkeefer » Jan 01 2015 5:21pm

Nep, at 88% efficient the motor at 50v in a 26" should deliver 36.77142857142857 mph loaded.
If it doesn't meet and sustain this speed then efficiency is lower than claimed... Even at 80% the motor should provide 33.42857142857143 mph loaded at 50v.

Hope that helps someone,
Mike
Regards,
Mike

{My Rides]
2010 Dahon Jack - GNG v1 - LYEN 6FET - 20/40A - 18S2P10AH - Nom:66.6v,1332w
2004 Hard Rock Pro Disc - Recumpence ms eDrive v4 - Astro 3220 4T - 12S2P16AH - HV110 - Left Side Drive - Gearing: 38mph
Nominal Peak Power @ 60 seconds: 5328 watts - Maximum Power: 49.8v, 120A, 5872w
2010 Downtube 8FH - Stock GNG v1 Stock Controller - EB809XC - 12-16S
2012 Downtube Nova 7spd - Stock GNG v2 - 12S2P10AH - EB809 - 12S-16S - 20A/30A,Nom VCC: 44.4, 888w

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12968
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by neptronix » Jan 01 2015 6:12pm

I'm waiting on some no-load figures from ebikeling, which could tell us some things about efficiency.

If the new 30mm 1000w leaf motor runs at 80w no-load, then i would guess that the no-load on this 1500w motor would be around 100w.

If it's around 100w, it's probably got 0.35mm laminations. If that is the case, it probably has the same ~86% efficiency. And if that is the case, i am ordering one ASAP and will put it through it's paces, as it's going to be a bit more powerful than the magic pie.. a perfect power level for an ebike in my opinion :)
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12968
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by neptronix » Jan 01 2015 7:21pm

http://www.leafbike.com/products/e-scoo ... r-984.html

The "86% efficient" 1000w motor spec sheet seems to originate from this motor ( which explains the absurdly high RPM )
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

User avatar
wesnewell   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7167
Joined: Jan 31 2011 6:25pm
Location: Wylie, TX, USA

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by wesnewell » Jan 02 2015 1:22am

neptronix wrote:You can tell people that your motor is whatever they want to hear.
Hi-power cycles used to sell MAC/BMC motors as 3000w - 4000w motors.
I've seen someone try to sell Crystalyte HS's as 6000w motors.

The useful information is... what are the stator dimensions, and where is your efficiency graph to prove the 1500w claim? otherwise this is just an overpowered 9C.
No, you can't legally do that here in the USA. It's called fraud. If you sell it as a 1500W motor, it better damn well be a 1500W rated motor or you may find yourself being sued or even facing the criminal justice system. And AFAIK, there aren't any 28mm stator 1500W motors.
Need Advice? https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=66302
Mongoose 26" Ledge 2.1 mtb bike $99, yescomusa.com 48V 1000W rear hub kit $200, Hua Tong 72V 40A controller $35, 10ah 24s lipo $217=~43mph, range=45 miles @ 20mph. 25K miles and still going strong.
Huffy Fortress 3.0 with MXUS 3000 4T motor, 24s lipo, 96V 60A controller. Total cost with extras <$700. Top speed ~50mph
My videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0KW4U ... _G2wQhptMg

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12968
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by neptronix » Jan 02 2015 3:36am

Operative word: 'can'

'can be sued'

But companies here in the USA still lie.

Here's a screenshot from hi-powercycles.com circa 2011. That motor is a BMC motor and they claim it is 8.8lbs and capable of up to 4000w and 40mph.

I melted the gears off an identical motor in 5 minutes running 4000W. So i could say with confidence that it was a lie.

Just one example of vendor fibs that companies get away with.
Attachments
2015-01-02 00_33_43-High performance Electric bike kits!.png
4000w 8.8lb BMC motor, sweet!
2015-01-02 00_33_43-High performance Electric bike kits!.png (243.81 KiB) Viewed 5500 times
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

User avatar
wesnewell   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7167
Joined: Jan 31 2011 6:25pm
Location: Wylie, TX, USA

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by wesnewell » Jan 02 2015 4:01am

Yeah, it's deceptive but the way they word it doesn't claim the motors are rated for any wattage. And they still do it. So does electricrider.com last I checked. People should avoid these places like the plague unless they know what they are buying. i know what I'm buying and I still wouldn't deal with them. Just overpriced hype.
Need Advice? https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=66302
Mongoose 26" Ledge 2.1 mtb bike $99, yescomusa.com 48V 1000W rear hub kit $200, Hua Tong 72V 40A controller $35, 10ah 24s lipo $217=~43mph, range=45 miles @ 20mph. 25K miles and still going strong.
Huffy Fortress 3.0 with MXUS 3000 4T motor, 24s lipo, 96V 60A controller. Total cost with extras <$700. Top speed ~50mph
My videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0KW4U ... _G2wQhptMg

User avatar
dogman dan   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 34420
Joined: May 17 2008 12:53pm
Location: Las Cruces New Mexico USA

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by dogman dan » Jan 02 2015 7:31am

Whoever has one, measure the distance from center of spoke flange to center of flange on the motor. If it's wider than 30mm, typical for a 28mm magnet motor, then you can assume it does have wider magnets than 28mm.

It could well be closer to the HS clyte motor in width. And if it reaches 40 mph on the road, a very fast winding too. Maybe they mean 40 mph no load.

Re wattage, we do call the motors I sell 500w, but then tell customers that the motors easily handle the 800-1200w they get with the controller we sell. We don't call it a 1000w motor, but a 1000w kit.

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12968
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by neptronix » Jan 02 2015 7:08pm

I got this response:

"130mm opening with single speed freewheel
145mm with 5 speed.

Motor draws 2.5Amps at 50V at full throttle unloaded spinning at 540rpm"

So that's a 125 watt no-load on a 35mm wide hub motor.
By comparison, the Crystalyte HS3540 has a 55w no-load on 35v at 350rpm.
By comparison, the Cromotor v1 ( 0.5mm lams ) has a 200w no-load on 80v at 733rpm.

So i would guess that this motor is your typical !82% efficient DD and not anything special :(
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12968
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by neptronix » Jan 05 2015 3:04pm

Lol, yup.. bad news. Someone on the ES Facebook page found another similar motor being sold.

80.8% peak efficiency... maybe it's just how they did the dyno graph.. but that's sad.

If you are looking for a 35mm motor, i'd have to say that you get what you pay for here.. A Crystalyte HS3540 gives much better efficiency and easily fits in a 135mm dropout.

Don't think i'll be getting one for testing even though it's so cheap.
Attachments
2015-01-05 11_54_23-Brushless Rear Hub Motor 48V 1500W VAE E Bike Big Power _ eBay.png
2015-01-05 11_54_23-Brushless Rear Hub Motor 48V 1500W VAE E Bike Big Power _ eBay.png (131.9 KiB) Viewed 5394 times
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

diggler   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 308
Joined: Mar 25 2014 12:12am
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by diggler » Jan 05 2015 10:03pm

Is this the same motor you guy's are talking about????
I've been emailing leaf bike for the last couple of days and he insist the 1500w motor is made by them and has the 90.5% efficiency.
Here is my thread where you can see all the emails.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65793
I also have a link on my thread to some 1500w motors on aliexpress and I have emailed them some basic question with no reply.

What caught my attention to this thread was the "WIDE" part in the title.
If you look at the emails he sais he can upgrade the axles and phase wires for me for free! But in doing this it will require different covers off a 2000w motor, because of the bigger axle and bearings. And in doing so will make this 1500w motor wider. For me this is NBD because I'm considering these for a fat bike.

Seller sais he will have 1500w motor test report up on the sight in two days....
GAS ELECTRIC FAT BIKE 49CC/3000W MXUS V1 18s Lipo 18 Fet BUILDING...http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=65638
600W CAPACITIVE SPOT WELDER BUILDING... http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=66466
HOLANDIA BEACH CRUSER 1000W 9C ?TURN REBUILDING... no thread yet.
Next project will be 18" Iron Horse hard tail mid drive

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12968
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by neptronix » Jan 06 2015 9:15pm

Thanks for doing further investigation :)

I started communicating with leafbike and the last email involved me asking for a spec sheet. They said that they had one. I asked if they could send it, and have not heard back for days.
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.

User avatar
100volts+   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 722
Joined: Nov 20 2012 10:05pm
Location: Houston

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by 100volts+ » Jan 06 2015 9:44pm

I've seen someone try to sell Crystalyte HS's as 6000w motors.
Marketers will definitely tell consumers whatever they think will sell their products but I have run a Crystalyte HS motor in excess of 5000w bursts (110v50a) but it wasn't sustained.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =1&t=57440

Unlike puppets we have the possibility of stopping in our movements,
looking up and perceiving the machinery by which we have been moved. In this
act lies the first steps towards freedom. - PETER BERGER Sociologist

diggler   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 308
Joined: Mar 25 2014 12:12am
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA

Re: Ebikeling "wide" 1500w kit

Post by diggler » Jan 07 2015 2:39am

No prob. just tryin to give back instead of me just asking a million nagging questions :lol:
They said they would have the motor test report for the 1500w up in a couple days.
Instead I see just another package with a 28" wheel with the same report for 1000w motor with it.... :roll:
GAS ELECTRIC FAT BIKE 49CC/3000W MXUS V1 18s Lipo 18 Fet BUILDING...http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=65638
600W CAPACITIVE SPOT WELDER BUILDING... http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=66466
HOLANDIA BEACH CRUSER 1000W 9C ?TURN REBUILDING... no thread yet.
Next project will be 18" Iron Horse hard tail mid drive

Post Reply