System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
Jonathan   10 W

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System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by Jonathan » Sep 24 2008 1:27am

I know we got an ebike, but some of us chose to pedal assist to get some exercise or just give our motor a chance for cooling.
I'm interested in what you guys are achieving for efficiency. I think this will help us make a better bike in the long run.

So what's your total overall system efficiency.

1. Efficiency (Watts/mile)
2. Speed (mph | kph)
3. Gradient (%)
4. Pedaling effort (none, light, heavy, extreme)
5. Bike Type (roadster, MTB, trike, others)
6. Motor Model
7. Controller Model
8. Battery (Voltage/Capacity)

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Link   100 MW

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by Link » Sep 24 2008 1:50am

This sounds like it would make a good poll.

Anyway:

1. ~26Wh/mi
2. 27mph top speed all the time with hard starts
3. No hills whatsoever
4. No pedaling
5. S-40 MTB
6. Golden Motor
7. Slightly modified Golden Motor controller
8. Duct-tape 48V 20Ah
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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by Kurt » Sep 24 2008 9:50am

1. Efficiency 10-30 whrs km
2. Speed (15-45 km)
3. Gradient mixed
4. Peddling effort none-light
5. Bike Type MTB with trailer
6. Motor Model My1018 dual
7. Controller Model Ecrazyman brushed 800w 32amp 48v
8. Battery AGM lead 18ah x 4 48v

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by pwbset » Sep 24 2008 10:52am

1. Efficiency: 55-75wh/mi
2. Speed: 12-20mph
3. Gradient: 8-20%
4. Pedaling effort: Heavy
5. Bike Type: MTB Jamis Durango hard tail
6. Motor Model: Clyte rear 4011
7. Controller Model: 24-72v20a pedal first (shunt soldered)
8. Battery: 84v5.2ah

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docnjoj   100 GW

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by docnjoj » Sep 24 2008 2:37pm

Yeah! Those hills and weight really are efficiency killers.
Efficiency: 25-30 wh/mi
2. Speed: 12-20mph
3. Gradient: up to 8%
4. Pedaling effort: moderate to heavy (if the Nicads fail!)
5. Bike Type: Tricruiser trike heavily modified
6. Motor Model: rear Bafang geared
7. Controller Model: Infineon 36-52 volts
8. Battery: NiMh 42 volts 10 ah (soon to be 48 volts)
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Johnbear   10 kW

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by Johnbear » Sep 24 2008 6:45pm

This is the bike that I ride the most -

1. Efficiency (Watts/mile) 16 wh/mile
2. Speed (mph | kph) 15-40 km/hr
3. Gradient (%) mixed
4. Pedaling effort (none, light, heavy, extreme) medium
5. Bike Type (roadster, MTB, trike, others) MTB
6. Motor Model -luyuan
7. Controller Model -luyuan 17A, 36v, Regen 5-10%
8. Battery (Voltage/Capacity) 36v 15Ah Duct tape lifepo4
JohnBear

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snowcrow   100 W

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by snowcrow » Sep 24 2008 9:29pm

1. Efficiency - 10-16 wh/mile
2. Speed - 15-30 m/hr
3. Gradient (%) - mixed (2-8%)
4. Pedaling effort - medium
5. Bike Type - MTB (hard tail)
6. Motor Model -Crystalyte 408
7. Controller Model -Crystalyte 25A, 48v
8. Battery - 48v 12Ah AGM SLA
Dashboard - Sigma BC 506 w/ "Watt's Up" meter
Frame - Schwinn S60 DSX (Re-build in progress)
Wheel Size - 26"
Motor - Crystalyte Rear 408 Hub
Controller - Crystalyte 48v 25amp ver.2
Bike Weight - 80 lbs.
Battery - 48v 12Ah AGM SLA
Total Milage - 140mi

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by fechter » Sep 25 2008 8:41am

Link wrote:This sounds like it would make a good poll.
OK, I stickified the thread.

I've always wanted a collection of efficiency measurements for PEVs. There are a bunch of reports scattered throughout the archives, but it would be nice to have them collected in one spot. Nowdays a lot of people have a way to actually measure it, so we should get some good numbers.

Here's a few previous measurements from the early days :D : http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... s+per+mile

Maximizing efficiency is always a worthwhile goal.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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lepton   1 W

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by lepton » Sep 25 2008 3:36pm

Daily commute average:

1 ) Efficiency - 29 Wh/Mile
2 ) Speed - 35 MPH cruising on long straights
3 ) Gradient - Almost completely flat
4 ) Pedaling - hard for acceleration, none at cruising speed
5 ) Bike - Full suspension mountain bike
6 ) Motor - Xlyte 5304
7 ) Controller - Xlyte 4840 analog, modified with 4110
8 ) Battery - 3p20s A123 (66 volt nominal, 6.9 Ah)

This is what I do every morning. I ride about 10 miles and use approximately 280 - 310 Wh each way. There's one big hill, but otherwise it's almost completely flat. I pedal hard at low speeds (below 25) and none above 30. I have to stop at 5 stop lights and I do about 10 stop signs through neighborhoods. About 7 of those 10 miles are rural straight aways, during which I'm at full throttle.

I've tried to set personal efficiency records on this route. My best thus far is 8 Wh/mile. I accomplished that running at 33 volts (2p10s pack), cruising speed of about 22 mph, and pedaling hard the entire way. Aside from the battery change it was the same system.

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Freddyflatfoot   1 kW

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by Freddyflatfoot » Sep 25 2008 7:13pm

1) Efficiency, 8.5-10 Wh/Km
2) Speed, 35 kph cruise, max about 42 kph with pedaling.
3) Gradient, up to 10% for my commute.
4) Pedaling, moderate.
5) Homebuilt tadpole trike
6) bafang rear brushless, geared. 20" wheel.
7) Ananda, 36v, 14.8 A
8) Ping LiFePo4, 36v/10AHr
Last edited by Freddyflatfoot on Oct 23 2008 7:40pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rob
Current setup, 250 watt/24 volt chain drive setup on Jamis MTB, 24 volt, 10 AHr Yesa LiFePO4 pack. 15A controller. (increased to 20A, currently dismantled) (motor sold)
Home built recumbent trike, 350 watt, brushless, geared, hub motor, 36v/10AHr 'Duct Tape' LiFePo4

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lepton   1 W

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by lepton » Sep 26 2008 3:52pm

On my way home today (yay for leaving early on Friday) I cruised at 25 MPH so that I could usefully pedal the whole way and reduce wind resistance. The stats for today (on the exact same route as my above post) were:

1 ) Efficiency - 23.17 Wh/Mile
2 ) Speed - 25 MPH cruising on long straights
3 ) Gradient - Almost completely flat
4 ) Pedaling - moderately while cruising, heavy during acceleration
5 ) Bike - Full suspension mountain bike
6 ) Motor - Xlyte 5304
7 ) Controller - Xlyte 4840 analog, modified with 4110
8 ) Battery - 3p20s A123 (66 volt nominal, 6.9 Ah)

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docnjoj   100 GW

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by docnjoj » Sep 28 2008 4:25pm

Hey Freddie! Thats pretty darn good efficiency! How much do you + trike weigh?
otherDoc

Freddyflatfoot wrote:1) Efficiency, 8.5-10 Wh/Km
2) Speed, 35 kph cruise, max about 42 kph with pedaling.
3) Gradient, up to 10% for my commute.
4) Pedaling, moderate.
5) Homebuilt tadpole trike
6) bafang rear brushless, geared. 20" wheel.
7) ??? Std, 36v, 14.8 A
8) Ping LiFePo4, 36v/10AHr
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Freddyflatfoot   1 kW

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by Freddyflatfoot » Sep 28 2008 4:45pm

docnjoj wrote:Hey Freddie! Thats pretty darn good efficiency! How much do you + trike weigh?
otherDoc

Freddyflatfoot wrote:1) Efficiency, 8.5-10 Wh/Km
2) Speed, 35 kph cruise, max about 42 kph with pedaling.
3) Gradient, up to 10% for my commute.
4) Pedaling, moderate.
5) Homebuilt tadpole trike
6) bafang rear brushless, geared. 20" wheel.
7) ??? Std, 36v, 14.8 A
8) Ping LiFePo4, 36v/10AHr
Doc,
I haven't weighed the trike in quite a while, and it has gone through some mods!
Original weight was 22Kg, add 3 Kg+ for the Bafang motor, and 3.5 Kg for the Ping battery. Maybe a 2-3 kg in rack/panniers guards? I weigh less than 75 Kg, so I'm guessing 110-120 kg all up? I am running narrow high pressure front tyres, and a similar tyre on the back. I think that helps.
I also think the lowish Amp rate of the controller helps a lot too!
With my riding style, I tend to avoid adding power from a standing start, and I pedal whenever I can, especially going uphill! There are even times, like on a downhill run, or slow speeds in traffic, when I don't even engage the power.
Hmm, maybe I should weigh her again? Dunno, but I'm actually thinking about a new, lighter frame. My new trike is 16.5 Kg bare, but that one was built for a different purpose, i.e. group/rando rides.
Rob
Current setup, 250 watt/24 volt chain drive setup on Jamis MTB, 24 volt, 10 AHr Yesa LiFePO4 pack. 15A controller. (increased to 20A, currently dismantled) (motor sold)
Home built recumbent trike, 350 watt, brushless, geared, hub motor, 36v/10AHr 'Duct Tape' LiFePo4

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docnjoj   100 GW

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by docnjoj » Sep 28 2008 4:51pm

Hmm........I guess in my case the bike weight is not the problem! :oops: 104 kilos! Thats me!
otherDoc
E-bike stable at our house

Steintrike Mad Max full suspension trike rear Cute 100H going on: Whoops, Cute wheel broke but I fixed it.
Sun USX delta trike EbikeKit small geared front wheel sort of front suspension for wife

Agniusm/A123 AMP 20 36 volts on the Steini has been taken off.
2x16000 Multisport from HK now gone as they died after 2 years
New Luna 10S bottle battery 13.6AH now on mine
Relatively New 10S4Px2 for wife's bike giving 20ah @ 40 volts home made Panasonic from Tumich. BMS's rule.

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by avsmith66 » Sep 30 2008 8:30am

1. Efficiency: 30wh/mi
2. Speed: 20-27mph
3. Gradient: 3% One small hill
4. Pedaling effort: Light
5. Bike Type: Bridgestone MB-2
6. Motor Model: WE Brushless BL-36 Front
7. Controller Model: WE Sensorless 50v 20a
8. Battery: 48v6.0ah NiCad
9. Daily Route Distance: 2.3 miles


AVS
48v10ah HeadWay, Wilderness BL-36 26" front wheel on a Bridgestone MB-2
XB-500 72V SLA with 72V 45amp Infineon Controller on stock 500watt rear hub
RMartin EVT VRLA -currently building Headway pack

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by recumbent » Oct 01 2008 7:50pm

8) almost all of us pick a 48 volt system 8)... maybe it's the most ideal power-to-weight ratio, .

1. efficiency: 8-12 wh/km
2. speed: average 20km/h, top-out at 43km/h (16mph average, 30mph max)
3. gradient: mostly flat, with small hills.
4. pedaling: light
5. bike: standard design (for 40 yrs) LWB recumbent
6. motor: #406 Clyte FWD
7. controler: clyte, 48V/35 amp
8. Battery: 48 volt LFEPO4, 10ah's (15cells) not the common 16cell pack.

edit: Changed to Lipo batteries and 9-C motor, as marked below.
Last edited by recumbent on Apr 01 2012 2:32am, edited 3 times in total.
Ebike in use:
LWB Recumbent bike, Sram i-9 internal gears.
Power: 58V, 16 amp/hr, lipo batteries.
max speed: 52 km/h (30 mph),
max range: 40 km's, incl stop&go few times, minimal pedaling.
New build: Delta recumbent trike

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by kineticdissent » Oct 22 2008 6:12pm

Just got a watts up meter installed today. was great to find this thread. my 1 trip #'s are as fallows

efficiency: 33wh/mile
Speed: 20-25 mph avg
Grade: mostly flat, couple downhill grades
Pedaling: just to get started, seems to be easier on the bike
bike: norco mtb w/comfort bike style tires
motor: clyte 5304 rear
controller: clyte 48v 40a
Batt.: 48v sla
other info from my 1st measured ride 47.53 peak amps, 2164 whatts peak, 42.26 min. voltage on a 7.5 mile ride.

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Freddyflatfoot   1 kW

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by Freddyflatfoot » Oct 23 2008 7:39pm

Freddyflatfoot wrote:1) Efficiency, 8.5-10 Wh/Km
2) Speed, 35 kph cruise, max about 42 kph with pedaling.
3) Gradient, up to 10% for my commute.
4) Pedaling, moderate.
5) Homebuilt tadpole trike
6) bafang rear brushless, geared. 20" wheel.
7) ??? Std, 36v, 14.8 A
8) Ping LiFePo4, 36v/10AHr
Just checked my WattsUp after my ride home from work last night.
Used a total of 2.5 AHr for my 13.4 k round trip, and 98.5 Whr.
That works out to 7.35 Whr/k!
Just tried a couple of things like using moderate throttle, backing right off when getting to speed and holding it there with pedaling, and coasting down hills, etc.
Still maintained a fairly good speed between 25-30 kph. Wind was fairly light too, which may have helped.
At that usage, I could theoretically get over 50k range!
Rob
Current setup, 250 watt/24 volt chain drive setup on Jamis MTB, 24 volt, 10 AHr Yesa LiFePO4 pack. 15A controller. (increased to 20A, currently dismantled) (motor sold)
Home built recumbent trike, 350 watt, brushless, geared, hub motor, 36v/10AHr 'Duct Tape' LiFePo4

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Zoot Katz   1 MW

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by Zoot Katz » Oct 23 2008 9:56pm

1. Efficiency (Watts/mile): Avg. ~8 Wh/km (12.8Wh/mile) I usually get ~100 km out of one charge.
2. Speed (mph | kmh): Avg. ~18 kmh. The bike will do more than 48 kmh on the flats unassisted. I feel safer travelling at speeds motorists expect from a bicycle. My highest speeds (57.4 kmh, 34.4 mph ) are achieved downhill without using the motor.
3. Gradient (%): I climb ~500' in ~2.5 miles. Most of the elevation gain is in the first mile. I live at the bottom of a hill so the last mile homeward can be totally coasted at ~30 kmh if it weren't for the stop signs.
4. Pedalling effort (none, light, heavy, extreme): I like pulling chain and enjoy aerobic activity without going anaerobic. I like to modulate the throttle and change gears so there's always some resistance on the pedals. Riding a bicycle uphill without pedalling looks stupid.
5. Bike Type (roadster, MTB, trike, others): Early '80s Araya Cro-Mo rigid mixte MTB with an Xtracycle. Bike weighs ~120 lbs with motor and batteries. It also has a comfortable upright riding position.
6. Motor Model: Xlyte 5304R
7. Controller Model: Xlyte 72V 48A digital.
8. Battery: (Voltage/Capacity): 48V 18Ah NiMH, 3C rated.

Note: All 700 km to date have been in hilly urban conditions.

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Kurt   10 kW

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by Kurt » Oct 24 2008 1:29am

1. Efficiency 8 -18 whrs km
2. Speed (15-45 km)
3. Gradient mixed
4. Peddling effort none-light
5. Bike Type MTB with trailer
6. Motor Model 5304 26" wheel
7. crystalite 48amp digital.
8. headway 36v 20ah

Kurt.

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paultrafalgar   10 kW

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by paultrafalgar » Oct 24 2008 5:47am

Here's the data in a spreadsheet format:
EbikeEfficiency.xls
Microsoft Format
(112.5 KiB) Downloaded 513 times
and
EbikeEfficiency.ods
Open Document Format
(15.01 KiB) Downloaded 298 times
Only one entry per person I'm afraid. Is there any way to put up a spreadsheet and allow each row to be added/edited by only the owner? So that we can collectively build it without having access to other than our own data? Sounds a complex programming task (file locking, passwords etc). Anyone?
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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by recumbent » Oct 24 2008 7:41pm

That spread sheet format looks great "Paultrafalgar" Thanks.

I noticed someone with the best efficiency numbers has the heaviest bike with the worst aerodynamic's. Obviosly somethings not calibrated correctly.
Ebike in use:
LWB Recumbent bike, Sram i-9 internal gears.
Power: 58V, 16 amp/hr, lipo batteries.
max speed: 52 km/h (30 mph),
max range: 40 km's, incl stop&go few times, minimal pedaling.
New build: Delta recumbent trike

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Zoot Katz   1 MW

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by Zoot Katz » Oct 24 2008 9:08pm

recumbent wrote:That spread sheet format looks great "Paultrafalgar" Thanks.

I noticed someone with the best efficiency numbers has the heaviest bike with the worst aerodynamic's. Obviosly somethings not calibrated correctly.
yo, you lookin' at me?

I'm an everyday cyclist. Have been for a long time. My fitness level is undoubtedly different than someone who has just recently escaped their cage to adopt bicycling as their primary mode of transportation. I like pedalling and travelling at bicycle speeds. I'm not afraid to sweat or breathe hard.

My Cycle Analyst was set up by the good folks at ebikes.ca so I trust its accuracy. The only thing I changed was the default wheel size after doing a measured roll out. My ebike average speeds are about the same as my unassisted bicycles. Max speeds on my unassisted bikes are generally greater because the brakes are more effective with the lighter bike and the weight distribution isn't fuktup by a bunch of batteries.

I'd like to have a record of how many watts I'm adding.

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by recumbent » Oct 25 2008 12:50am

Zoot Katz wrote: yo, you lookin' at me?
:) Yeah, i think it was, but didn't want to pigeon hole it that much.

Just that I know from experience, 8wh/km, (13 wh/mile) was my absolute lowest daily average only once or twice, and it's difficult to reach unless i was energetic, under ideal conditions.

Don't want to mislead any newbie into thinking this is a common number for us ebikers to achieve, because it's not. Unless of course we input lots of pedal power like you said. That's all.
Ebike in use:
LWB Recumbent bike, Sram i-9 internal gears.
Power: 58V, 16 amp/hr, lipo batteries.
max speed: 52 km/h (30 mph),
max range: 40 km's, incl stop&go few times, minimal pedaling.
New build: Delta recumbent trike

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by 317537 » Oct 25 2008 12:18pm

Bike 1:

1. Efficiency 8-10 whrs km
2. Speed (18-27 kph) lots of take off speed.
3. Gradient: two hills
4. Peddling: effort none.
5. Bike: Dyno BMX 20" wheel.
6. Motor: brushled 24v overvolted to 36v chain driven.
7.Controller: Unknown 24v brushed controler overvolted 36v 25A .
8. SLA 3x12v (36v) 18ah

Clocked well over 5000+ kms.

Bike 2

1. Efficiency 10-16 whrs km
2. Speed (22-32 kph).
3. Gradient: two hills
4. Peddling: effort: I like to pedal the MTB, a lil bit to medium.
5. Bike: Huffy MTB 26" aluminium frame 55kgs (with SLAs.)
6. Motor: GM 36v brushless hub.
7.Controller: Zhidong 36v .
8. SLA 3x12v (36v) 18ah

Clocked 1500+ km
Les
Leslie

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