System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
Bike_on   100 W

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by Bike_on » May 01 2011 9:56pm

1. 20 whr/mi
2. 24-25mph
3. mixed grades, 1300 ft gain.
4. moderate-hard
5. Optibike 850
6. Motorized bottom bracket
7. Optibike proprietary
8. 36V, 20 ahr LiCo

Stats
Giant Lite Optibike Optibike Optibike
2007 2008 2009 2010
Total Bike Miles 3231.8 4016.0 3661.8 4975.2
Total Bike Hours 197.0 185.3 159.7 233.8
Total Average 16.4 21.7 22.9 21.3

Commute miles 2398.5 3087.7 3452.65 4510.0
Commute Hours 139.4 134.2 147.33 198.4
Commute Average 17.2 23.0 23.4 22.7

Total Commute Days 87.0 88.0 92.0 115.0
Estimated Working Days 235.0 230.0 230.0 230.0
% Commuted 37.0% 38.3% 40.0% 50.0%
% bike miles for Commute 74.2% 76.9% 94.3% 90.6%

Equivalent FULL Commutes of 42+ miles 45 59 75.75 100
Equivalent commute rides of 21+ miles 90 118 151.5 200
Actual commute rides of 21+ miles 48 98 130 172
Actual commute rides of 15+ miles 5 4 4 0
Actual commute rides of 10+ miles 42 24 33 55
Actual commute rides of 5+ miles 68 20 8 2

Number of weeks of 100+ miles 14 19 16 37
Number of weeks of 200+ miles 0 5 2 0

Savings: per round trip $22.3 $21.4 $21.3 $21.3
Total Savings $1,001 $1,261 $1,613 $2,130

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FFR Trikes   100 mW

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by FFR Trikes » Jul 17 2011 8:37pm

1. 20.6 wh/mi
2. 30.5 mph average speed on a 16 mile ride
3. rolling with some moderate hills in western North Carolina
4. Medium-heavy
5. KMX Tornado
6. Astro 3220
7. CC HV160
8. 44.4V 25 Ah LiPo

This was on my personal FFR Transition One.

Upgrades: Schlumpf HSD, 6T Astro 3220, prototype tailfairing

The tailfairing made a pretty significant difference. I do almost all of my riding at full throttle, which is 31-32 mph. Typically I see efficiencies around 25 wh/mile. The tailfairing dropped that number to 20 wh/mile on it's first run. We'll be doing more development with carbon tail fairings in the future.


-Tommy
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Skippic   100 W

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by Skippic » Jul 24 2011 2:54am

Very interesting stuff. Maybe we could do another thread setting as many parameters as we can, so as to restrict the number of variables.

For example:
Constant speed
No wind
No hills
No pedaling

1. Instant watts used at 10, 15, 20... [mph]
2. Bike Type (roadster, MTB, trike, others)
3. Motor Model
4. Controller Model
5. Battery (Voltage/Capacity)

I understand this is only for people with a CA or a watt meter, but it would provide a way to compare the efficiency of different setups.

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veloman   1 GW

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by veloman » Aug 20 2011 12:38am

1. Efficiency: 10-13 wh/mile
2. Speed: 15-18mph depending on grade, usually at 17.5mph on the flats
3. Gradient: 0-12%, varies much, but if hilly I pedal a LOT more, so it evens out.
4. Pedaling effort: moderate on hills and starts, none on flats
5. Bike Type: Mongoose Sycamore rigid mtn bike
6. Motor: cellman's MXUS 250w geared hub
7. Controller: 13.6amp peak 36v
8. Battery: 36v 11ah lifepo4 pouch (don't know name)

I've had as low as 6 wh/mile when pedaling about 50% of the time and nearly flat conditions. I think that was my first ride on it and I babied it since it was wet out. 12 wh/miles seems to be the standard. I use to get 16wh/mile on a completely different setup, 450w unite driving the cranks with barely any pressure on the pedals, averaging 22mph.
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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by GaryJS » Sep 21 2011 10:21am

Time for me to clock in with my values from my first clocked ride :)

1. Efficiency: 11.16 wh/mile
2. Speed: average 16.3mph
3. Gradient: -14 to +13%
4. Pedaling effort: low to moderate (mixed)
5. Bike Type: Raleigh Mountain bike
6. Motor: vpower 24v 250w motor (unsure who actually makes it or real rating? - see pics in build thread)
7. Controller: Vpower 24v 250w controller (unsure who actually makes it or real rating? - see pics in build thread)
8. Battery: 36v 12ah SLA

Build thread: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 97#p439497
Route: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&m ... 0615caefe0 (had to stop a couple of times for my lycra clad friend to catch up :)

Hugues   1 kW

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by Hugues » Sep 21 2011 1:35pm

my turn


1. Efficiency (Watts/mile) = 47 (that figure seems to be on the high side compared to other posts, :( )
2. Speed (mph ) = 16
3. Gradient (%) = 10
4. Pedaling effort light
5. Bike Type MTB
6. Motor Model Crystalyte HT (something)
7. Controller Model Infineon 40A
8. Battery 72 V 10 ah
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Danos   10 W

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by Danos » Sep 23 2011 6:02am

Numbers from my short (4.7km) commute to work. Short steep climb then descent with some flat. Mostly WOT with moderate pedaling.

1. Efficiency (Wh/km) = 18
2. Speed (kph) = max 52kph
3. Gradient (%) = up to 10%
4. Pedaling effort: moderate
5. Bike Type: MTB hardtail Trek 4100
6. Motor Model: Mac 500w rear
7. Controller Model: Infineon 30A
8. Battery: A123 16s4p 58V 9.2ah

LI-ghtcycle   1.21 GW

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Oct 10 2011 2:20pm

Just wanted to move some Efficiency info from my earlier build thread here:

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... e&start=45

And here is a basic thumbnail of the info:

Distance: 8 miles

Average slope: 3 - 12%

Watt Hours Per Mile: 10.75 (86 WH's for 8 Mi. )

Amped Bikes 9 x 7 DD rear hub motor used as mid-drive, using 1/8th bicycle chain from motor to NuVinci rear hub with a 3 to 1 single stage reduction (13T to 27T, using track a cog on hub motor and sprocket from Staton Inc.) with an effective gearing range for 7 to 30 MPH.

And now my latest build, I have done a longer trip to include the same hill with the exception of the few blocks of 10+ % grade hill (my gearing is too tall, have to wait to get proper gearing to get the full potential of this new motor) and using even less Wh/Mi.

Here are the stats:

Distance: 42 miles

Average slope 3 - 10%

Watt Hours Per Mile: 8.7

(This second test was on a day with virtually no wind, at at about 56F temperature)
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Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by cwah » Oct 10 2011 2:56pm

I don't have a cycle analyst. But I manage to do that:
Max distance: 18 miles total distance on throttle only (mainly flat road)
Max speed: 23mph (but most of the time I'm between 15 and 23 mph)
Average: 14 mph.
Battery: 36V10A Li(NiCoMn)O2

Is it good efficiency?
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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by gartmu » Nov 02 2011 5:13pm

1. Efficiency (13Wh/mile)
2. Speed (16mph )
3. Gradient (total climb: 582 meters vertical; total descend: 597 meters vertical)
4. Pedaling effort (none)
5. Bike Type (MTB)
6. Motor Model (Bafang BPM 48V500W Code12)
7. Controller Model (KU123 500W 12Mosfets 48V 28A)
8. Battery (Headway 48V 9AH)

My bike weights 25kg and I weight 83Kg. My height is 1,82 meters.

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by GaryJS » Mar 27 2012 9:59am

Just a little update now that I'm running on Lipo:

1. Efficiency: 10.5 wh/mile
2. Speed: average 24mph
3. Gradient: -14 to +13%
4. Pedaling effort: moderate - high (mixed)
5. Bike Type: Raleigh Mountain bike
6. Motor: vpower 24v 250w motor (unsure who actually makes it or real rating? - see pics in build thread)
7. Controller: Vpower 24v 250w controller (unsure who actually makes it or real rating? - see pics in build thread - clearly OK at 49V 20A)
8. Battery: 12s2p (49Vish)

Build thread: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 97#p439497

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by leffex » Jun 25 2012 2:18pm

1. Efficiency: 23 wh/mile (estimate at 26km ride usage of 8ah, calculated uphill for 5km, 2km flat, downhill 3km, 2km flat, 1km uphill, x2)
2. Speed: average 24mph
3. Gradient: -10 + 10 I guess (22mph uphill, 26mph flat, 32mph downhill, )
4. Pedaling effort: moderate-high
5. Bike Type: Mountain bike 26", 1,5" tyres
6. Motor: tongde 5kg rear hub DD
7. Controller: sensorless 48v 25a
8. Battery: licomn 48v 10ah using 8ah
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SoSauty   1 kW

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by SoSauty » Jul 26 2012 4:15pm

Set up for Enduro time trial:
Baby BaFang8fun
20A Lyen mini-monster controller
18Ahr 12S/45V Lipo
.710W for 70mile or 10.25Watt/per/mile
average 17mph until the last 12miles
(dang my feet and nuts were numb)

Set up for Adams Kart racing June16th:
9 Continential 24" wheels
30A Lyen mini-monster controller
8Ahr 20S/74V Lipo
50 Watt/per/mile
17 to 33mph racing
(dang it felt fast)
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3 hardtail MTBs:
-48V Lith-ion 10.5amp hr-408 C-lyte
-BPM 8FUN[*STOLEN]
-run Century rides w/Q100 mini
3 folders:
-20" wife's BaFang,
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-24" Stewart/Hass 9C; 3.5K/40mph fun racer

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by AFT » May 23 2013 1:29am

Our best ever efficiency run was done on 14/1/13 with our all new EMAX upgrade kit.

Distance 18.4km, All test were done at 17 AMPs current limited and FUll throttle for consistency, and 3 tests done in each group to get an average.

Mid level peddling
Efficiency: 20.55 wh/mile ( 12.8 wh/km)
2. Speed: average 21mph (34.7km/hr), Max speed 57.8 kmh
3. Mostly flat but some sections Gradient: -10 + 10
4. Pedaling effort: mid level peddling
5. Bike Type: Mountain bike 26", 1,75" tyres
6. Motor: AFT custom EMAX mid drive 36v 960w, run at 33v a123
7.Total bike weight 37 kgs
8. Battery: a123 26650, 10 series 33volts

No peddling same track
Efficiency: 21.52 wh/mile ( 13.4 wh/km)
2. Speed: average 20.1mph (32.35km/hr), Max speed 50 kmh
3. Mostly flat but some sections Gradient: -10 + 10
4. Pedaling effort: GHOST peddling
5. Bike Type: Mountain bike 26", 1,75" tyres
6. Motor: AFT custom EMAX mid drive 36v 960w, run at 33v a123
7.Total bike weight 37 kgs
8. Battery: a123 26650, 10 series 33volts


22/8/12 Baseline stock setup without EMAX upgrades
No peddling same track
Efficiency: 22.29 wh/mile ( 13.8 wh/km)
2. Speed: average 15.71mph (25.29kmh), Max speed 49.9 kmh
3. Mostly flat but some sections Gradient: -10 + 10
4. Pedaling effort: GHOST peddling
5. Bike Type: Mountain bike 26", 1,75" tyres
6. Motor: AFT custom EMAX mid drive 36v 960w, run at 33v a123
7.Total bike weight 37 kgs
8. Battery: a123 26650, 10 series 33volts
APPLIED FUTURE TECHNOLOGIES
Specialising in high performance and high efficiency custom electric mid drive conversions kits.

Website : Af-tech.com.au
Email : Aft_ebike@hotmail.com

Since 2009 we have reached 8000km of real world reliability and efficiency improvement testing on our mid drive kit and testing is an ongoing process ….

Our Ethos "Proven design through long term real world reliability testing"

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Tommy   100 mW

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by Tommy » May 24 2013 8:02pm

1. Efficiency (Wh/km) = 48Wh/Mi
2. Speed (MPH) = 12 to 22
3. Gradient (%) = up to 8%
4. Pedaling effort: None (no working pedals)
5. Bike Type: DIY Delta Trike
6. Motor Model: Daul 24V (gearmotors from electric scooter)
7. Controller Model: SaberTooth 2X25
8. Battery: Dual SLA 24V 20A (parallel) (pulled from earthwise cordless lawnmowers)

Tommy

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by voodoosand » Jul 16 2013 11:29am

What am I doing wrong? Over several rides my Wh/mi is 3 times what's been posted here! First time bike & build, longtime biker. Wheel size is set up correctly in my CA. Wheel spins freely in repair stand with relatively little drag.
Any tips/suggestions?

1. Efficiency: 63.7 Wh/mile (39.49 Wh/km) !
2. Speed: average 19 mph (30.57 kph)
3. Gradient: On the 8.56 mi (13.7 km) trip, a mix of 1.7 mi climbing (20% of the trip), 5.3 mi flats (62%), 1.6 mi decent (18%). Ranges from -7% up to typical climbs of 7% with short 29% grades.
4. Pedaling effort: low to moderate (0-100 watts on flats, 100-250 watts on hills)
5. Bike Type: 29er/700c rigid mt bike, 2.35" (60c) Schwalbe Big Apples, 40 psi, 280 lbs (127 kg) for rider and all
6. Motor: ezee v2 700c ebikes kit
7. Controller: 20A Infineon
8. Battery: 36v 14Ah LiMn

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amberwolf   100 GW

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by amberwolf » Jul 16 2013 12:47pm

Well, a couple things to check first, but depending on your acceleration from a stop (WOT or gradual, actual power used during startups and for how long), your actual speeds (not just average), and the power used on the uphill slopes, it might not be that far off (but probably is).

You can eliminate much of those by finding a relatively flat path that is as long as you can find, with no stops or starts on it, and riding it wihtout pedalling, several times in each direction, at a constant speed (say, 20MPH). That will establish a baseline of actual power consumption on the flats. You should see around 450W typical usage at that speed, based on my experience (down to 400, up to 500, assuming no wind or hills).

Is your CA using hte controller's shunt, or an external? If both came from Grin Tech / ebikes.ca, it might already be calibrated, but if not you may want to go into the CA's setup and check that per the CA manual. The controller shunt resistance is written or printed on the controller label itself, and the external shunts are (AFAIK) always 1.00mohm. (mine have been).

If the CA isn't calibrated you could get readings that are too low or too high.


Another possibility is incorrect phase/hall combination but that's unlikely if it all came from Grin Tech--those should just be plug and play.


Even on my very heavy CrazyBike2 I don't get worse than around 30-35Wh/mile average over a several-mile trip, under typical conditions. If the wind is really bad and I have to do lots of stops and starts, it might be 40Wh/mile. Normally it's closer to 25-30Wh/mile, and even less on long trips (10+ miles) with few stops and starts, and that is cruising just under 20MPH with no pedalling.

(These days I do pedal because my knees are getting better but I don't put enough effort into it to be doing any work yet, and gearing makes pedals useless at over about 7-8mph unless I'm spinning like mad).

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by voodoosand » Jul 16 2013 1:57pm

amberwolf thank you! Generally from a stop I only use my legs until about 10mph then ramp up throttle to 100%.
I will do what you suggest.

*EDIT* amberwolf thanks again, it was my Rshunt value! I shouldn't have made assumptions about it being calibrated. No pulsing noise anymore, much smoother and 24 Wh/mi.

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by Diamondback » Jul 28 2013 4:26am

as a test i did my daily work commute one day last week, with ZERO pedal input.
i have been wondering just how good my efficiency is on the trike for sometime now, and i took last Thursday to find out...

1. Efficiency 12.5wh / km
2. Speed 23km/h average speed
3. Gradient relatively flat, with a few minor hills. nothing more than about 3% grade.
4. Pedaling effort None
5. Bike Type recumbent Trike
6. Motor Ezee Geared Hub Motor
7. Controller 20A Ezee Controller
8. 12s 20ah (useable) RC Li-Po (i have 2 packs. one is 16ah, the other is 10ah)

i did the entire 45km round trip using just over 11Ah with almost zero pedal input from me..
im very happy with the numbers i managed.

Jason
Ignorance can be solved, stupid is forever

Bike_on   100 W

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by Bike_on » Aug 21 2013 4:44pm

Jonathan wrote:I know we got an ebike, but some of us chose to pedal assist to get some exercise or just give our motor a chance for cooling.
I'm interested in what you guys are achieving for efficiency. I think this will help us make a better bike in the long run.

So what's your total overall system efficiency.

1. Efficiency (Watts/mile)
2. Speed (mph | kph)
3. Gradient (%)
4. Pedaling effort (none, light, heavy, extreme)
5. Bike Type (roadster, MTB, trike, others)
6. Motor Model
7. Controller Model
8. Battery (Voltage/Capacity)

I was thinking of a way to improve upon these efficiency parameters, but you have it down good.

A couple comments:
6. Motor Model (AND rated power of motor)

ADD:
9. Average Power calculated by: efficiency * speed = whr/mi * mi/hr = Watts

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by rafeh1 » Sep 27 2013 4:57pm

1. Efficiency - 30 wh/mile
2. Speed - 34 m/hr
3. Gradient (%) - long steeped rise at end
4. Pedaling effort - medium
5. Bike Type - 700c fixie road bike
6. Motor Model -Oetoma
7. Controller Model -Oetoma controller 48v 20ah
8. Battery - 48v 10ah li ion

Bike weighs 48lbs does 34 mph and range is 25 miles

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by JoyRiddin » Nov 06 2013 1:43pm

I weigh 245lbs and the bike with rack and battery weighs 71lbs. CA V3 set to limit amp draw to 10amp max. or 1C which is the max continuous for this battery.

1. Efficiency (Watts/mile) 13.5 avg over 1200 miles
2. Speed (mph | kph) 19mph / avg
3. Gradient (%) 3 to 9% less than 20% of the ride
4. Pedaling effort (none, light, heavy, extreme) light to heavy
5. Bike Type (roadster, MTB, trike, others) Townie / Jamis Explorer / rack and side bags
6. Motor Model - Yescomm USA 500W
7. Controller Model - Yescomm USA 500W
8. Battery (Voltage/Capacity) 36V 10.5ah

I weigh 245lbs and the bike with rack and battery weighs 69lbs. CA V3 set to limit amp draw to 20amp max, worried about phase wires and controller melt down, which is 1/32nd of the max continuous for this battery.

1. Efficiency (Watts/mile) 23.5 avg over 300 miles
2. Speed (mph | kph) 24mph / avg
3. Gradient (%) 3 to 9% less than 20% of the ride
4. Pedaling effort (none, light, heavy, extreme) light to heavy
5. Bike Type (roadster, MTB, trike, others) Townie / Jamis Explorer with 26 X 2.6 reartire and 1.95X26 front
6. Motor Model - Yescomm USA 500W
7. Controller Model - Yescomm USA 500W
8. Battery (Voltage/Capacity) 50V 16ah Lipo rated for 40C

-Rich

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by Drokz » Dec 01 2013 11:47am

1. Efficiency = 12.73WH/KM
2. Speed = 30km/h
3. Gradient = Flat
4. Pedaling effort= None
5. Bike Type = MTB
6. Motor Model = HS3540
7. Controller Model = 48-72V senserloss 45amp controller
8. Battery = 44.4V 10amp lipo
Renault R1, Hs3540, 45Amp, 18S
Norta ashford, Geared pedelec, 12amp, 7S

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by teslanv » Mar 02 2014 12:50pm

See Signature for Bike Build.

1. Efficiency: 13.5 watts per mile
2. Speed: Software limited to 31 MPH Max, 16 MPH at cruising speed. (PAS Level 3 of 9)
3. Gradient: Western Washington, USA - somewhat hilly. (12% max grade.)
4. Pedaling effort: Light to Moderate
5. Bike Type: 26" Hardtail MTB (Iron Horse Maverick 5.0)
6. Motor type: Bafang BBS02 750W 48V Mid Drive
7. Controller Model: Integrated in Motor (25A Max.)
8. Battery: HK LiPo - 12S 10Ah 44.4V Nominal, 50.4V HOC
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perpete   100 µW

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Re: System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

Post by perpete » Mar 12 2014 4:56pm

1. Efficiency (Watts/mile) 9 Wh/km - 14,6Wh/mi
2. Speed (mph | kph) 15-36Km/h - 9-23m/h
3. Gradient (%) 4% - 4%
4. Pedaling effort : normal
5. Bike Type: Old road steel bike 700c wheel
6. Motor Model: Bafang SWXH rear motor
7. Controller Model: Lyen 6 fet 3077, PAS only, 3 speed switch
8. Battery: 48v/8Ah
Last edited by perpete on Apr 13 2014 6:34pm, edited 1 time in total.

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