Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

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dirt huffer   1 W

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by dirt huffer » May 27 2021 6:53pm

Trying to decide between freewheel or cassette...
Do you get larger phase wires with either option?
I thought i remember reading the cassette option came with smaller phase wires

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » May 27 2021 7:04pm

Get the freewheel model. It has 14mm axles on both sides. Unless i've missed a change somewhere.

Because of the nutty power this motor can put out ( roughly equal to the bigass crystalytes of yore ), you very much want the biggest axles you can get if you're in the 3kW and beyond club like me.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

AdR   1 mW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by AdR » May 29 2021 11:34am

Newbie-Looking to get a 1500w leaf kit.
See the motor has gotten go ratings, but havent seen much on their controller and battery
any advice on their controller and battery
from email contacting them, seem they only sell sq-wave controllers

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Chalo » May 29 2021 11:47am

AdR wrote:
May 29 2021 11:34am
Newbie-Looking to get a 1500w leaf kit.
See the motor has gotten go ratings, but havent seen much on their controller and battery
any advice on their controller and battery
from email contacting them, seem they only sell sq-wave controllers
The controllers Leaf Bike sells with their kits are generic KT trapezoidal wave controllers. They're reputable and somewhat programmable, but nothing special (and fairly noisy). I've had no problems at all with the controllers.

I haven't considered sourcing a battery from Leaf, and their cycle life claims seem less than credible.

I strongly advise you to get a hub that isn't laced to a rim, which will save shipping costs and allow you to have a decent quality wheel built locally.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by AdR » May 29 2021 12:08pm

@Chalo-do you think a KT sine wave controller a good option.
And to the general forum- what controllers have others had good experiences with the leaf 1500w motor.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Chalo » May 29 2021 2:43pm

AdR wrote:
May 29 2021 12:08pm
@Chalo-do you think a KT sine wave controller a good option.
I don't know; I have not used one yet. I like the idea of silent or near-silent operation, but I can't say I'd pay a lot extra to get it.

I understand that synthetic sine wave controllers are a little less efficient than trapezoidal wave controllers, and FOC controllers a little more efficient.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by AdR » May 29 2021 3:02pm

@Chalo- are you runnig a leaf 1500w with the stock sq wave controller?
if so, how are you liking it
what turn are you running

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » May 29 2021 3:08pm

AdR wrote:
May 29 2021 11:34am
Newbie-Looking to get a 1500w leaf kit.
See the motor has gotten go ratings, but havent seen much on their controller and battery
any advice on their controller and battery
from email contacting them, seem they only sell sq-wave controllers
Wouldn't bother getting any batteries or controllers from them.

I used an infineon clone em3ev controller but i think those are now only sold at lyen.com
I would read the forum a bit and do some research on what's best. People are playing with a lot of different newer controllers now.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Chalo » May 29 2021 4:38pm

AdR wrote:
May 29 2021 3:02pm
@Chalo- are you runnig a leaf 1500w with the stock sq wave controller?
if so, how are you liking it
what turn are you running
On my own bike, I use a 6T 1500W front Leaf (in a 29" wheel) with the default 35A controller and KT LCD3 display. It works boringly well, and makes more noise than my ancient Crystalyte 5305 with its ancient Crystalyte 35A controller.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

markz   100 GW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by markz » May 29 2021 9:11pm

Which kv would you rather have?
What voltage are you using?
Chalo wrote:
May 29 2021 4:38pm
On my own bike, I use a 6T 1500W front Leaf (in a 29" wheel) with the default 35A controller and KT LCD3 display. It works boringly well, and makes more noise than my ancient Crystalyte 5305 with its ancient Crystalyte 35A controller.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Chalo » May 29 2021 10:09pm

markz wrote:
May 29 2021 9:11pm
Which kv would you rather have?
What voltage are you using?
Chalo wrote:
May 29 2021 4:38pm
On my own bike, I use a 6T 1500W front Leaf (in a 29" wheel) with the default 35A controller and KT LCD3 display. It works boringly well, and makes more noise than my ancient Crystalyte 5305 with its ancient Crystalyte 35A controller.
I was intending to use the motor in a 20" wheel at 48V, for a top speed close to 20 mph. Plans changed, and it was pressed into service for my 29er, with a 44V battery. It's good for 26+ mph on flat ground, but it contributes some push up to about 32-33 when I'm moving downhill and/or pounding the pedals hard. Mostly I turn it down and cruise, as intended, at about 20.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by AdR » May 29 2021 11:33pm

My disclosure of shame :oops: . Looking to upgrade a blix packa I bought in desperation to take the kids to the park.
the 500w DD in a 24 inch wheel is just a hair away from stalling on two hills on the route with me + 2 kids=300lbs with a 3rd soon to be added. Bike come with 48v/10ah+14ah batteries. Looking for about 15mph with kids and maybe 30mph when running away from home :wink:

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by markz » May 29 2021 11:44pm

What are your batteries discharge rates in amperes?
AdR wrote:
May 29 2021 11:33pm
My disclosure of shame :oops: . Looking to upgrade a blix packa I bought in desperation to take the kids to the park.
the 500w DD in a 24 inch wheel is just a hair away from stalling on two hills on the route with me + 2 kids=300lbs with a 3rd soon to be added. Bike come with 48v/10ah+14ah batteries. Looking for about 15mph with kids and maybe 30mph when running away from home :wink:

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by AdR » May 30 2021 9:55am

Seller claim packs made with samsung 35E cells. assuming 1c discharge give possible 24ah discharge. Seen 30amp fuse in 14ah battery. So assuming 2c discharge give possible total 48amp discharge.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by E-HP » May 30 2021 12:01pm

AdR wrote:
May 30 2021 9:55am
Seller claim packs made with samsung 35E cells. assuming 1c discharge give possible 24ah discharge. Seen 30amp fuse in 14ah battery. So assuming 2c discharge give possible total 48amp discharge.
Based on the rating of the cells, the 3P pack is good for 24A and the 4P pack is good for 32A; when new.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by AdR » May 30 2021 3:30pm

Should be good enough for 1500w continuous motor, now all I need is a good controller. Shame waiting time for nucular micro is almost a year. :x :(

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by AdR » Jun 03 2021 4:10am

Anyone running their 1500 with a kelly or sabvoton, if so which one, or the phaserunner.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » Jun 03 2021 4:48pm

E-HP wrote:
May 30 2021 12:01pm
AdR wrote:
May 30 2021 9:55am
Seller claim packs made with samsung 35E cells. assuming 1c discharge give possible 24ah discharge. Seen 30amp fuse in 14ah battery. So assuming 2c discharge give possible total 48amp discharge.
Based on the rating of the cells, the 3P pack is good for 24A and the 4P pack is good for 32A; when new.
Yeah, maximum but not continuous. You should design for 1/4th of max ideally! you'll get insane voltage sag at max!
IE you have a 10AH '3c rated' battery? a good load would be 1C or less ( <10A ).

Reference: lygyte-dl samsung 35e data: https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2 ... %20UK.html
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by AdR » Jun 03 2021 6:00pm

bike comes with 10ah and 14ah batteries in parrall@48v

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E-HP   100 MW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by E-HP » Jun 03 2021 10:25pm

AdR wrote:
Jun 03 2021 6:00pm
bike comes with 10ah and 14ah batteries in parrall@48v
I only did the math, based on the specs and assumptions. Neptronix added his layer of wisdom and experience.

He advises 1/4 of the rated current is safer for the battery, and maintains better performance by not sagging. I used 8A per cell in my calc, which is supposedly the continuous rating, although oddly stated in the data sheet. The data sheet is ideal, and won't take into account how the pack is configured or dissipates heat, etc.:

8,000mA (for continuous discharge)
13,000mA (not for continuous discharge)

You can draw your own conclusions and decide how much to beat up your pack. I have 8P of 35E cells. It gets hammered off the line, but not continuously (I still like pedaling and don't ride fast), and I'm OK with the consequences.

1/4 of 56A is 14A. (if using the peak rating from the data sheet, 1/4 would be 23A)

For 1500W continuous at 48V you need at least 31A continuous battery amps even before taking into account losses. The motor will probably pull 3 times that or more if you let it and don't have the controller limiting current.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by 999zip999 » Jun 06 2021 8:29am

What he wants is something like 1,500 rear 40amp controller and C .A. to set amps or a program Lyen as he can have added a CA plug or what controller ? What wind ? And now how will the batteries keep up ? Lots of weight and what type of hills ?

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by AdR » Jun 06 2021 12:47pm

If I am honest with myself, what I need is about 20 mph with the max load on the flat and enough torque for about 1/4 mile steepish hill without the motor over heating. want the quietness of a DD but a geared is probably what I really need, geared noise or not

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by spinningmagnets » Jun 06 2021 1:00pm

If I am honest with myself, what I need is about 20 mph with the max load on the flat and enough torque for about 1/4 mile steepish hill without the motor over heating. Want the quietness of a DD, but a geared is probably what I really need, geared noise or not
I daily-drive a car that is capable of 100-MPH, but...I have found that it is fairly easy to adhere to the posted speed-limit of 25-MPH in the school zone. I would recommend a hubmotor that is capable of a top-speed that is slightly more than you plan to use in your daily commute. As a result of using a lower turn-count, the motor will experience less resistance and will convert fewer battery watts into waste-heat.

That being said, you will be well-served with either one of the choices that you are contemplating...

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by 999zip999 » Jun 06 2021 5:06pm

Ok my speedometer goes 120 mph but my car only does 110mph. What's wrong ?

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

Post by Chalo » Jun 06 2021 6:30pm

AdR wrote:
May 29 2021 11:33pm
My disclosure of shame :oops: . Looking to upgrade a blix packa I bought in desperation to take the kids to the park.
the 500w DD in a 24 inch wheel is just a hair away from stalling on two hills on the route with me + 2 kids=300lbs with a 3rd soon to be added. Bike come with 48v/10ah+14ah batteries. Looking for about 15mph with kids and maybe 30mph when running away from home :wink:
1500W Leaf should be more than satisfactory. 6 turn winding in a 24" wheel would be good for about 24 mph cruising on 48V. If you want a higher top speed than that, you can get 5 turn or 4 turn motor, but you'll sacrifice some climbing ability and acceleration in return for the increased top speed.

You could also try using a more powerful controller with the motor you already have.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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