Do you care about pedaling?

Toshi

10 kW
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
840
Location
Denver, CO
Over the years I've noticed that there seem to be two camps of e-bike riders, separated by whether they care about pedaling.

One camp wants the most suspension, the most tire, the most power, and its denizens don't seem to care about pedaling except perhaps a few strokes at the start and if the battery craps out mid-ride. This is perhaps exemplified by the Stealth series of bikes:

_3770419_orig.jpg


Even with a two speed crankset as equipped, pedaling is purely superfluous on a bike like that. Many builds seem to try to emulate (or exceed) this bike's performance for less money. I can relate to that, but these are essentially slow motorcycles with pedals at a high price, IMO.

The other camp wants an assisted bike that's first and foremost a bike. This implies gearing sufficient to pedal along even at full tilt. This task is easier with lower assist power and resultant speed, of course, and that's the easy route that most of the factory/compliant 250W/350W models take. It's possible to gear bikes high enough that pedaling with a reasonable cadence at 30 or even 35 mph is possible, however, as I've sketched out in the latter pages of my old build thread. (CN: 48 x 11 on 700c will work for 30 mph or so, and a ginormous 60t ring will do it for 35 mph.)

IMG_9730.jpg


Here's my old build. Note 48 x 16t gearing, driving a Nexus 7 hub. This setup led to a comfortable pedaling cadence around 25 mph.

I see the merits of both camps, but so far in my build(s--built in 2008, redone once in 2010 as depicted above before parting out last year, and now planning once again) I've come down in favor of the bike-as-a-bike. After all, if I'm not going to pedal why don't I take the car and buy a few carbon credits, after all? (or drive the EV and obviate the carbon credits.)

Thoughts from the peanut gallery?
 
I"m kinda middle man here. I don"t care about the law, i have a throttle and 750W but i still pedal all the time to the point my muscles are often shot.
My velomobile weighs 49kg with 30Ah battery, i can just about pedal it home or to the nearest city in emergency on first and second gear cruisin 10 mph. Slow but faster than walking.
Pedaling increases the range and is good for you. I don"t particularly like those 5kw beasts, and 250W is laughable too. I pedal what i can and let the motor do the rest.
 
I agree with you. 250/350W is no good, and I don't want an e-motorcycle. My old build was in the ~800W to ground realm, probably limited by the battery now that I think of it, and I'm planning on 48V 25A for the next unless I have some epiphany in the meantime. With proper gearing those power levels can still be compatible with one's own exertions.
 
Fully in the pedaling camp, right now. My objective has been to obtain a "bike-like" experience, using cadence and torque sensors, without a throttle. I wanted to a fairly heavy, powerful bike to ride like a much lighter bicycle.

Commuting for fitness is important to me, but I also just like to ride bikes. Having an ebike which responds to my pedaling input is ideal for me.
 
I like to pedal. I've got 3 Ebikes now, the first two are mid drives based on GNG kits that are modified to increase their power output to around 2kw. I've geared them so I can comfortably pedal along at 25-30 mph, looking at my CA I use around 450w whilst cruising and get about 20w/mi. My latest bike is a Raptor built with a Cromotor V3 and an Adappto Max-E controller, it pedals out at about 20mph on its current gearing but will happily fly up to 50+mph given the chance, I would like to be able to pedal along at higher speeds so I'm thinking of fitting a Schlumpf high speed drive.
 
I pedal the whole way. That was a critical design factor from the start.
Wanted to commute by bike for the exercise, but 25 miles each way is too far without assist for me.
40 amp controller gives me 2K watts, I guess, but if I run more than 700-800 for very long the MAC overheats.
I have a 62t CR and my smallest rear is 14t ... I can always keep up with the motor.
 
My wife and I use these trikes for exercise and fun. Gotta pedal or what is the point of pedals? We run around 300-500 watts on level ground and up to 900 up a fairly long hill. I would hate to do the 20 mile routes we ride without some assist. Too old for that.
otherDoc
 
SloNEZ said:
I pedal the whole way. That was a critical design factor from the start.
Wanted to commute by bike for the exercise, but 25 miles each way is too far without assist for me.
40 amp controller gives me 2K watts, I guess, but if I run more than 700-800 for very long the MAC overheats.
I have a 62t CR and my smallest rear is 14t ... I can always keep up with the motor.

Are you sure its your MAC that overheats? Ive been running 2.2kw through a MAC10T for a while and never had an issue. I run 14S2P 25C lipo, so there is very little vdrop under load.

As for what group im in.... Im a peddler with motor assist for traffic light racing and crazy headwind days. Im setup to cruise at 50km/h+
 
If its a hub motor bike, I dont want to pedal because the drag annoys me.... so I basically want a very lightweight e-motorcycle.
but if its a friction drive, I like pedaling, and then just popping the drive out when I need a break, or when I am about halfway up a hill....
And then theres my scooter, and thats a straight up e-motorcycle hidden in a kids frame.

So I like all 3... sometimes the point is the motor... sometimes its just a little help.
 
Yes, but I have different bikes depending on what I want to do at the time.
I always want the option to pedal. I don't like being completely sedentary unless I just did a big road bike ride that day or I'm otherwise tired.

My fairing ebike has the seat too low to pedal, so i only pedal when standing, and that is when getting up to speed or on a hill. that can amount to a lot since there is a stop every 1/4 -1/2 mile usually. It's more efficient to sit lower and push less wind than to sit high and pedal.

I have other ebikes that are more pedal friendly for when I want more of a workout. But even then, I find that it rarely makes sense to pedal without the motor on, as the ebike is always going to be slower than a non-ebike, and I'm riding the ebike to go faster, and with less effort.
 
I like pedalling, and would prefer to do it...it just hurts more than I can handle a lot of the time. So I don't usually do it, and it's just an emergency backup on my bikes/trikes, with really low gearing to just limp home if I have to, in short-distance segments with rests in between.


If my knees and ankle weren't like they are, I'd pedal a lot and gear things so I can keep up with the motor at 20MPH, as well as at startup.
 
I'd love to have really powerful rig but it seems like the Stealth and the HPC bikes all come with Throttle only. Do any of the "Big Motor" kits have hubs with Pedelec? Its my understanding that Big Motor = Throttle only, so that's kind of a turn off for me.
 
Ottodog said:
I'd love to have really powerful rig but it seems like the Stealth and the HPC bikes all come with Throttle only. Do any of the "Big Motor" kits have hubs with Pedelec? Its my understanding that Big Motor = Throttle only, so that's kind of a turn off for me.
I don't see what's stopping one from building a high power rig with a torque sensing bottom bracket and CA v3... besides gearing it such that one can actually pedal along at "big motor" speeds.
 
Toshi said:
Ottodog said:
I'd love to have really powerful rig but it seems like the Stealth and the HPC bikes all come with Throttle only. Do any of the "Big Motor" kits have hubs with Pedelec? Its my understanding that Big Motor = Throttle only, so that's kind of a turn off for me.
I don't see what's stopping one from building a high power rig with a torque sensing bottom bracket and CA v3... besides gearing it such that one can actually pedal along at "big motor" speeds.

That's really the problem with torque sensors on more powerful bikes...You quickly pass the speed where you're capable of providing more positive torque input with your legs. Ideally, you could set thing up with a torque sensor to get you up to speed, and a cadence sensor to maintain speed. And make sure you gear the bike so you can still add a few watts with your legs, at the speed that you want to travel.
 
I like to pedal, but find uphills could be assisted. I suppose that makes me a Geezer, or at least Geezer Larva. And yes on occasion I like going fast. Would that make me a Speedgeezer?

I ride to get exercise. Its good to get a burst of adrenalin from pedaling. It's also nice to get a boost up a hill.
 
Don't have a legal choice here in Australia if I want to run a "big block" 250W motor :evil: No throttle use allowed above 6km/h for pedalecs which sucks . The motor has allowed me to get back into riding my bike with my bad knee but when the knee starts to pack it on a long ride I would still like to be able to use a throttle to get home but legally I can't, I just have to deal with it. A stealth throttle is on the agenda along with a gearing change to allow the look of natural pedalling when ridden with a throttle at a higher speed without needing to load up my knee.
 
Avitt said:
Toshi said:
Ottodog said:
I'd love to have really powerful rig but it seems like the Stealth and the HPC bikes all come with Throttle only. Do any of the "Big Motor" kits have hubs with Pedelec? Its my understanding that Big Motor = Throttle only, so that's kind of a turn off for me.
I don't see what's stopping one from building a high power rig with a torque sensing bottom bracket and CA v3... besides gearing it such that one can actually pedal along at "big motor" speeds.

That's really the problem with torque sensors on more powerful bikes...You quickly pass the speed where you're capable of providing more positive torque input with your legs. Ideally, you could set thing up with a torque sensor to get you up to speed, and a cadence sensor to maintain speed. And make sure you gear the bike so you can still add a few watts with your legs, at the speed that you want to travel.

Yeah, I'm kind of opening my mind up to throttle only now that I've talked with a few people who have it. Sounds like you can get used to it pretty quickly. It just seems odd since I rarely ever use the throttle on my current e-bike. Then again, it's only 500 watts... ;)
 
i took my chain off months ago.....i call it the air coupled drive......it doesnt have the problems of a conventinal chain eg. falling off every time u pedal when u see a cop, getting jammed in the tire, and making you look like a fool......arousing the wrong type of attention......now when i need to pedal i just do it . its so smooth and the 53tooth chainring cuts though the air like a saber...... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
hydro-one said:
i took my chain off months ago.....i call it the air coupled drive......it doesnt have the problems of a conventinal chain eg. falling off every time u pedal when u see a cop, getting jammed in the tire, and making you look like a fool......arousing the wrong type of attention......now when i need to pedal i just do it . its so smooth and the 53tooth chainring cuts though the air like a saber...... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Speaking of Cops... Has that been a problem for anyone? I'll need to take it overland to get to the dirt...
 
How wrong can a chain be installed to have this problems?
I only had issues back in the days when i rode street and trial while riding fakie/backwards, but at normal riding?

Sounds hilarious to me......a bike with a chainring, crankset and pedals but no chain. :D

My pedaling depends on my mood, and of course after leg day in the gym, i pedal zero to none. :wink:
90% of the time i pedal, 50% around 200 watts.
 
I pedal for my health, very light, long duration exercise is one of the pillars of my recovery from West Nile Virus. I have to rev up my ATP production, but without using up my existing ATP. Very hard to do without the assist keeping the effort very low. Too boring to walk for an hour or more. But I cannot pedal hard very much, that will cancel out the benefit I got from easy pedaling. Most crucial of all, is I must be able to get home with no pedaling if I overdo. Another thing you can't do on a walk, unless the wife is home so you can call for help.

Typical very long ride, like 50-70 miles, I pedal about 60% of the time. Easy pedaling followed by frequent breaks. A shorter ride I can pedal more. A 10 mile trip I might pedal 90% of it.

Though I've ridden motorcycles a lot, I do come from pedaling. I used to wear out chains faster than tires when I was young and weighed 115 pounds. So to me pedaling has always been a joy. Well, it was till I got money, and bought food, and put on 70 pounds. Biking was never the same again when I got over 150 pounds. So an ebike that I pedal is a joy to me. I feel that youthful speed, with a sick old farts pitiful effort.

An ebike I don't need to pedal was a joy too. :twisted: But since I got sick, I really don't have the stamina to ride a 3000w ebike very long. So now my bikes are either 1000w, or 2000w for the big cargo hauler.
 
hydro-one said:
i took my chain off months ago.....i call it the air coupled drive......it doesnt have the problems of a conventinal chain eg. falling off every time u pedal when u see a cop, getting jammed in the tire, and making you look like a fool......arousing the wrong type of attention......now when i need to pedal i just do it . its so smooth and the 53tooth chainring cuts though the air like a saber...... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

If I remember right, Winnipeg is pretty flat. Put on a 60t chainring and you could really get up some speed.
 
One of my bikes goes 40mph and looks like the former of the OP; But I am in the pedal camp. For that reason, I have fitted an FSA Metropolis Patterson with a 39T which multiplies through the planetary gearing to a virtual 62.4T. Combined with an 11T out back, I can pedal all the way up to full speed. :D

It was one of the more expensive parts of the build, but necessary in my book. I also have other slower bikes and I pedal all of those too. I feel weird being on a bike without pedaling against some resistance.
 
I like to pedal,i always feel a friendship with my battery and pedalling is like spooning your battery. :)
 
I pedal all the time but I don't need to, for all my bikes are very fast and powerful. It is a matter of perception, ride it like a motorcycle and cops will see you like one.

Then, I will build a slick pedal assist bike eventually, but it is not a priority right now. I am still after improving off road performance and that may last a few more years.
 
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