extra fees when ordering

wasp · Apr 21, 2015

i recently ordered a 12fet 100v sensorless controller from em3ev also matching halftwist throttle and 3sp switch
i am no stranger to ordering and try to give my buisness to those on es
i have ordered from ebikekit(2807r kit)
also from lyen(18fet controller n program cables)
also from justin at ebikes.ca(2x1606r and cav2 dp)
first i want to say em3ev was very good to deal with and arrived faster than stated
very happy with product
my concern is the controller was 100 n throttle was 8 all in with shipping was 186.xx
now i get a bill from fed-ex for 14.39 why has anyone else had this issue?
also if i ordered a 1000 worth of lithium from em3ev would it be 2000 delivered plus whatever fed-ex tacks on?
i am confused as i have not had extra payments from anyone else exept hobbyking cause i undervalued my order to much and got dinged(only on 1 order)
has anyone else been dinged extra charges?
again i am not putting down em3ev just confused with fed-ex padding my bill that was paid in full when i questioned fed-ex on these charges i was told thats the way it is?
wasp

Ypedal · Apr 21, 2015

it's from Customs ... for Duties and Brokerage . Thank your government by paying your taxes... urgh.

middriveebike · Apr 21, 2015

You can sell clear the package.
Tell FedEx you want to clear the package yourself and they will give you the documents you needed.
You then clear it yourself at the government building.

wasp · Apr 21, 2015

Ypedal said:
it's from Customs ... for Duties and Brokerage . Thank your government by paying your taxes... urgh.

this is what is listed
canada hst 3.09
advancement fee 10.00
hst on adv fee 1.30
when i questioned fed-ex they want me to get ahold of the seller for them wtf?
they offered to one time waive the 10 and 1.30 but the 3.09 was for the border
so how are these brokerage fees and why no mention from em3ev or fed-ex upon delivery?
they can waive there fees but not hst goes to border
why is it not listed as brokerage fee?
wtf is a advancement fee
has anyone in canada experienced the same?
like i said have order from all over the planet not just ebike stuff and am wondering if anyone has the same issue
thx for the reply ypedal
wasp

wasp · Apr 21, 2015

middriveebike said:
You can sell clear the package.
Tell FedEx you want to clear the package yourself and they will give you the documents you needed.
You then clear it yourself at the government building.

what gov building the post office
could you be a little clearer it would help me and anyone else on es
thx
wasp

Ypedal · Apr 21, 2015

Not the post office...

CBSA in canada ( Canada Border Services Agency )

Clearing your own goods makes no sense for small stuff, once you start importing pallets then it's another story.

Brokerage = fee paid to the customs officials etc for handling the paperwork ..
Duties = Tax % of declared value on the customs invoice

My best guess at the Advancement fee, a fee fedex charges do handle the brokerage and duties on your behalf.

wasp · Apr 21, 2015

Ypedal said:
Not the post office...

CBSA in canada ( Canada Border Services Agency )

Clearing your own goods makes no sense for small stuff, once you start importing pallets then it's another story.

Brokerage = fee paid to the customs officials etc for handling the paperwork ..
Duties = Tax % of declared value on the customs invoice

My best guess at the Advancement fee, a fee fedex charges do handle the brokerage and duties on your behalf.

thx makes sence just hate hidden or unexplained charges...after delivery
wasp

cal3thousand · Apr 22, 2015

Must be a Canadian thing. I don't ever pay 'extra' when getting things from Cellman (EM3EV) to the states

beast775 · Apr 23, 2015

Fedex

....i just shipped a large box to australia,they wanted 1,100.00 for shipping,after 20 minutes of me showing them how to measure the box it was 132.00..shipping is a evil game.i have 3 fedex brokerage fee bills same as yours in a drawer and thats where they will stay :evil:

..

justin_le · Apr 23, 2015

wasp said:
my concern is the controller was 100 n throttle was 8 all in with shipping was 186.xx
now i get a bill from fed-ex for 14.39 why has anyone else had this issue?

Sounds like you actually paid less than you should have, and only didn't because EM3EV falsely declared the value of your shipment, apparently listing it at ~20 USD value rather rather than the $108 that they should have. That would explain why you only had 3.09 of HST on the bill (20 USD ~ 23.8 CAD, and 13% tax on $23.8 is the 3.09 that you paid). The proper amount of sales tax for your order is 13% on 108 USD, or about $16.70 CAD, so you just ripped off the Ontario government of over $13 in sales tax revenue that they have a right to collect, and which technically you should still remit to them.

Fedex charged $10 for their service of collecting and remitting the sales tax to the government on your behalf, which does actually involve some paperwork and overhead. As YPedal mentioned, if you don't want to pay fedex to do the paperwork you can do this yourself at the CBSA office. American states that collect sales tax do the same thing, but usually wave anything valued less than $400. In Canada it's waived if the value of the order is less than $20 CAD, (not 20 USD).

also if i ordered a 1000 worth of lithium from em3ev would it be 2000 delivered plus whatever fed-ex tacks on?

If you order 1000 worth of anything from anywhere, you should always expect to pay $130 or 13% sales tax on it when you bring it into Ontario. If you buy it from a local store, they will collect it on the spot. If you drive across the border and come back with it, then you'll pay it at the customs border crossing when they ask the value of goods you are bringing in from abroad. If you order it shipped in from overseas, then the postal company handling the shipment will pay the tax on your behalf and then collect it from you when they deliver, as happened in this case.

i am confused as i have not had extra payments from anyone else exept hobbyking cause i undervalued my order to much and got dinged(only on 1 order)

You should be paying tax on any order worth over $20 CAD.

again i am not putting down em3ev

Actually EM3EV should be put down for under declaring the value of the shipment in order to reduce your sales tax, which can get you in hot water if you do this in a big scale and are busted.

wasp · Apr 23, 2015

justin_le said:
wasp said:

my concern is the controller was 100 n throttle was 8 all in with shipping was 186.xx
now i get a bill from fed-ex for 14.39 why has anyone else had this issue?

Click to expand...

Sounds like you actually paid less than you should have, and only didn't because EM3EV falsely declared the value of your shipment, apparently listing it at ~20 USD value rather rather than the $108 that they should have. That would explain why you only had 3.09 of HST on the bill (20 USD ~ 23.8 CAD, and 13% tax on $23.8 is the 3.09 that you paid). The proper amount of sales tax for your order is 13% on 108 USD, or about $16.70 CAD, so you just ripped off the Ontario government of over $13 in sales tax revenue that they have a right to collect, and which technically you should still remit to them.

Fedex charged $10 for their service of collecting and remitting the sales tax to the government on your behalf, which does actually involve some paperwork and overhead. As YPedal mentioned, if you don't want to pay fedex to do the paperwork you can do this yourself at the CBSA office. American states that collect sales tax do the same thing, but usually wave anything valued less than $400. In Canada it's waived if the value of the order is less than $20 CAD, (not 20 USD).

also if i ordered a 1000 worth of lithium from em3ev would it be 2000 delivered plus whatever fed-ex tacks on?

Click to expand...

If you order 1000 worth of anything from anywhere, you should always expect to pay $130 or 13% sales tax on it when you bring it into Ontario. If you buy it from a local store, they will collect it on the spot. If you drive across the border and come back with it, then you'll pay it at the customs border crossing when they ask the value of goods you are bringing in from abroad. If you order it shipped in from overseas, then the postal company handling the shipment will pay the tax on your behalf and then collect it from you when they deliver, as happened in this case.

i am confused as i have not had extra payments from anyone else exept hobbyking cause i undervalued my order to much and got dinged(only on 1 order)

Click to expand...

You should be paying tax on any order worth over $20 CAD.

again i am not putting down em3ev

Click to expand...

Actually EM3EV should be put down for under declaring the value of the shipment in order to reduce your sales tax, which can get you in hot water if you do this in a big scale and are busted.

noticed in your sig you have a cellman pack did you pay your taxes...who cares
did you have a falling out with this company
if you want to "put down" em3ev call crime stoppers they may even pay for your snitch
if you want to snitch on me you know who i am we met before
this post by you troubles me what is the reason you chimed in anyways?
it certainly was not to explain a confusing charge only to judge me and em3ev for OUR transaction
speaking of (cough)money you wont be seeing anymore of mine
your beliefs are yours not mine...
whats next snitching on us if we post we went 33km/h
i hope others see your attack on em3ev as a eye opener
ps RCMP in BC - Crime Stoppers: 1-800-222-8477
wasp

dnmun · Apr 23, 2015

it is not a belief but the law. taxes are legal and under reporting is always considered a violation even if you are a bully and can insult other people over the internet.

i have had to pay fedex for their paper work in lieu of my signature too and it was more than the duties so it was a little annoying since i would have paid upon delivery or ahead if i had seen the import duty fee coming.

wasp · Apr 23, 2015

so now i am a bully?"even if you are a bully and can insult other people over the internet."
wtf
his motive was to attack em3ev is justin a cop does he work for the feds...ect
no so why is he doing the LAWS work ? HIS BELIEFS
how am i a bully for speaking the way i did?
how did i bully anyone?
and insult other people who did i insult justin for pointing out his WORDS?
wasp

wasp · Apr 23, 2015

dnmun said:
it is not a belief but the law. taxes are legal and under reporting is always considered a violation even if you are a bully and can insult other people over the internet.

i have had to pay fedex for their paper work in lieu of my signature too and it was more than the duties so it was a little annoying since i would have paid upon delivery or ahead if i had seen the import duty fee coming.

if i was riding my ebike and you tried to tell me the law i would not give you a second thought nobody would
now if you were a cop in uniform might be different but you or justin are not cops so go chase cars on the freeway that are breaking the law speeding or someone littering or not picking up dog shit they have so many policies who can keep up but you and other lemmings
again you are a third party interloper on my post i will wait for justin to respond if i didnt bully him to much :shock:

wasp

recumbent · Apr 23, 2015

cal3thousand said:
Must be a Canadian thing. I don't ever pay 'extra' when getting things from Cellman (EM3EV) to the states

I've ordered lots of stuff from China, including batteries, and never paid extra fee's, but when ordering from the US, they hit me for the full $ amount, and takes just as long to ship. I think it has something to do with customs and if they bothered to check your box for contraband. It's basicly a hit-or-miss thing when ordering abroad, Just make sure you got the extra money when they come to your door.

Punx0r · Apr 24, 2015

I suspect the issue is foreign suppliers getting an unfair advantage over domestic ones by breaking the law regarding import duties. A Canadian-based company would have to pay every penny on stock they import.

No one likes paying tax, but import duties help ensure a level-playing field for domestic businesses.

wasp · Apr 24, 2015

Punx0r said:
I suspect the issue is foreign suppliers getting an unfair advantage over domestic ones by breaking the law regarding import duties. A Canadian-based company would have to pay every penny on stock they import.

No one likes paying tax, but import duties help ensure a level-playing field for domestic businesses.

if it was a level playing field walmart wouldnt be shutting all buisnesses down as they expand into even more areas
also this post was to explain why i got a bill after purchase n delivery and what the $10 was and why it is not listed as a broker fee
instead i get "put down" along with em3ev for tax evasion and told i am a bully for saying i will not support a vendor that whose OPINION i disagree with
justin came into this post not to answer the question but to attack a fellow vendor em3ev and showed me a side that repulses me
people think they can go around dictating company policies...i was born free and have no contract with the goverment here is a shocker i am not a member of your society or the general public
hitler got the german youth to snitch on friends n family we all know how that turned out...i dont believe people should run around attempting to enforce a walmart policy when you dont work for walmart you will be told to go f@#k yourself or worse
and to be called a bully because i vote with my money as one should is a attack in itself
justin is not a god people his post above proves that
what did he mean by put down? like a dog at the vet?
wasp

wasp · Apr 24, 2015

dnmun said:
it is not a belief but the law. taxes are legal and under reporting is always considered a violation even if you are a bully and can insult other people over the internet.

i have had to pay fedex for their paper work in lieu of my signature too and it was more than the duties so it was a little annoying since i would have paid upon delivery or ahead if i had seen the import duty fee coming.

still waiting for you to explain how i am a bully dnmun i guess your silence answers that...another walmart wannabe?
wasp

ohzee · Apr 24, 2015

damn came into thread confused because of the subject left dissapointed

Justin is correct and is just pointing out another viewpoint to the question you were asking.

Even when someone else thinks differently then I do I still value their view because it potentially helps expand mine.

He is the only reason we are here and while I don't think we should worship him I do think we should show him the respect he deserves.

wasp · Apr 24, 2015

ohzee said:
damn came into thread confused because of the subject left dissapointed

Justin is correct and is just pointing out another viewpoint to the question you were asking.

Even when someone else thinks differently then I do I still value their view because it potentially helps expand mine.

He is the only reason we are here and while I don't think we should worship him I do think we should show him the respect he deserves.

i am confused as well as i asked about the 10 charge from fed-ex after purchase and delivery and got told i am a bully because of my post?wtf
as for justin again i vote with my money
what did he mean by "put down" so far he has not responded like dnmun
respect for saving the site sure but does that extend to all my buisness decisions when they are not a party to them?
comes back to his opinion that i didnt ask for
wasp

cal3thousand · Apr 24, 2015

recumbent said:
cal3thousand said:

Must be a Canadian thing. I don't ever pay 'extra' when getting things from Cellman (EM3EV) to the states

Click to expand...

I've ordered lots of stuff from China, including batteries, and never paid extra fee's, but when ordering from the US, they hit me for the full $ amount, and takes just as long to ship. I think it has something to do with customs and if they bothered to check your box for contraband. It's basicly a hit-or-miss thing when ordering abroad, Just make sure you got the extra money when they come to your door.

That's probably more a function of US businesses' propensity to follow the law and do things the right way. As Justin pointed out above, some companies will underdeclare the value of the item to make their goods have a better final price and induce you to continue purchasing from them.

cal3thousand · Apr 24, 2015

wasp said:
ohzee said:

damn came into thread confused because of the subject left dissapointed

Justin is correct and is just pointing out another viewpoint to the question you were asking.

Even when someone else thinks differently then I do I still value their view because it potentially helps expand mine.

He is the only reason we are here and while I don't think we should worship him I do think we should show him the respect he deserves.

Click to expand...

i am confused as well as i asked about the 10 charge from fed-ex after purchase and delivery and got told i am a bully because of my post?wtf
as for justin again i vote with my money
what did he mean by "put down" so far he has not responded like dnmun
respect for saving the site sure but does that extend to all my buisness decisions when they are not a party to them?
comes back to his opinion that i didnt ask for
wasp

You came posting on HIS forum and expect him not to be able to chime in? Just because you don't like the fact that he pointed out a truth about how you got away paying less than you would have normally, doesn't give you the right to be indignant when he responds. Go ahead and vote with your dollars and keep sending them to China. Just keep hoping that the suppliers you deal with continue to under declare the values and that it doesn't cost you extra in any other way. It's already apparent you don't care about what happens to others nor government entities.

You also weren't even grateful for the fact that he took time to address your whiney little post about ~$13.

wasp · Apr 24, 2015

cal3thousand said:
wasp said:

ohzee said:

damn came into thread confused because of the subject left dissapointed

Justin is correct and is just pointing out another viewpoint to the question you were asking.

Even when someone else thinks differently then I do I still value their view because it potentially helps expand mine.

He is the only reason we are here and while I don't think we should worship him I do think we should show him the respect he deserves.

Click to expand...

i am confused as well as i asked about the 10 charge from fed-ex after purchase and delivery and got told i am a bully because of my post?wtf
as for justin again i vote with my money
what did he mean by "put down" so far he has not responded like dnmun
respect for saving the site sure but does that extend to all my buisness decisions when they are not a party to them?
comes back to his opinion that i didnt ask for
wasp

Click to expand...

You came posting on HIS forum and expect him not to be able to chime in? Just because you don't like the fact that he pointed out a truth about how you got away paying less than you would have normally, doesn't give you the right to be indignant when he responds. Go ahead and vote with your dollars and keep sending them to China. Just keep hoping that the suppliers you deal with continue to under declare the values and that it doesn't cost you extra in any other way. It's already apparent you don't care about what happens to others nor government entities.

You also weren't even grateful for the fact that he took time to address your whiney little post about ~$13.

here we go again
this is a free site dumbass i can post here if i choose to
my question again was regarding fed-ex and paying after the fact and having it labeled as advancement fee
you people keep defending justin like he is a god read the f@#king post he made
its not about 13 bucks although you cant add it is 15.xx it is about labeling and notice during the transaction not after
i have spent thousands since 2008
this post started as to understand the bill from fed-ex and has grown to being accused by dnmun of being a bully and justin saying
em3ev should be put down
all our shit is chinese wake the f@#k up
you have only added to it calling me whiney i believe i posted a strait up question with no hidden agenda on the public forum in the general section
"You also weren't even grateful for the fact that he took time to address your whiney little post"
am i grateful that he answered the fed-ex question sure but then he went on to attack em3ev so no not grateful
then dnmun calls me a bully
alot of idiots make claims then dont back them up as we are seeing in this fed-ex post
thx and appreciation to those that chimed in about the question at hand not enforcing thier beliefs onto others
wasp

justin_le · Apr 24, 2015

Hi Wasp, sorry I really didn't mean for that explanation to turn into a shit storm or seem accusatory. Just to clarify, when you said:

wasp said:
again i am not putting down em3ev

You were the first one to use the term "putting down" em3ev. What I was saying is that of course you shouldn't put down em3ev for Fedex charging you customs and brokerage fees since they have nothing to do with it, but if they are to be "put down" (your words) for anything it would be under-declaring the shipment value by a very large percentage, which in principle can wind up getting you in hot water. [Edit: I see now how this looks like a side dig at a vendor but I was honestly simply repeating your words for emphasis effect, I have an awesome personal and business relationship with Paul at EM3, that's completely not the issue]

Of course for small orders like this no one is going to care and at worst they would look up the actual value of your shipment based on the part numbers and charge accordingly. I was being a little bit sanctimonious so sorry for that.

But the principle is the same, you should expect to pay sales tax on an order worth over $20, and if it's not being collected by the source then it will be collected by the delivery agent. With companies like Fedex and UPS, they usually waive the brokerage fee completely if you use their express services, so all you'd have is the HST to pay and in this case it would have been just the $3.09 amount. The net effect is that it's often _cheaper_ overall to use a fedex express shipping than fedex regular shipping, because the extra that you pay upfront on the shipping charge is offset by not having to pay any brokerage, just the HST on the value of the shipment.

And yes, back when I was first ordering parts for ebikes as an early hobbiest I'd also try to do everything to avoid any additional charges and ask for shipments to be under declared, marked as gift etc., and would be livid whenever there were additional charges coming in after the fact, but then I grew up. It used to be way worse that you wouldn't know about the brokerage when the shipment arrived and would then get a bill in the mail like a month later, and the brokerage charge then used to be more like $50-$100 rather than just the $10 you had now. So if anything things haves gotten a lot more reasonable recently due to consumer backlash with so many people now ordering online, and now there are many programs for online orders that are able to collect the tax at the time you place the order so that everything is indeed paid upfront, which is ideal.

-Justin

[Additional edit, I was completely away from the computer all day and had no awareness of the thread getting locked or temporary ban and have asked YPedal to lift that]

wasp · Apr 25, 2015

justin_le said:
Hi Wasp, sorry I really didn't mean for that explanation to turn into a shit storm or seem accusatory. Just to clarify, when you said:

wasp said:

again i am not putting down em3ev

Click to expand...

You were the first one to use the term "putting down" em3ev. What I was saying is that of course you shouldn't put down em3ev for Fedex charging you customs and brokerage fees since they have nothing to do with it, but if they are to be "put down" (your words) for anything it would be under-declaring the shipment value by a very large percentage, which in principle can wind up getting you in hot water. [Edit: I see now how this looks like a side dig at a vendor but I was honestly simply repeating your words for emphasis effect, I have an awesome personal and business relationship with Paul at EM3, that's completely not the issue]

Of course for small orders like this no one is going to care and at worst they would look up the actual value of your shipment based on the part numbers and charge accordingly. I was being a little bit sanctimonious so sorry for that.

But the principle is the same, you should expect to pay sales tax on an order worth over $20, and if it's not being collected by the source then it will be collected by the delivery agent. With companies like Fedex and UPS, they usually waive the brokerage fee completely if you use their express services, so all you'd have is the HST to pay and in this case it would have been just the $3.09 amount. The net effect is that it's often _cheaper_ overall to use a fedex express shipping than fedex regular shipping, because the extra that you pay upfront on the shipping charge is offset by not having to pay any brokerage, just the HST on the value of the shipment.

And yes, back when I was first ordering parts for ebikes as an early hobbiest I'd also try to do everything to avoid any additional charges and ask for shipments to be under declared, marked as gift etc., and would be livid whenever there were additional charges coming in after the fact, but then I grew up. It used to be way worse that you wouldn't know about the brokerage when the shipment arrived and would then get a bill in the mail like a month later, and the brokerage charge then used to be more like $50-$100 rather than just the $10 you had now. So if anything things haves gotten a lot more reasonable recently due to consumer backlash with so many people now ordering online, and now there are many programs for online orders that are able to collect the tax at the time you place the order so that everything is indeed paid upfront, which is ideal.

-Justin

[Additional edit, I was completely away from the computer all day and had no awareness of the thread getting locked or temporary ban and have asked YPedal to lift that]

hello justin
want to start by saying sorry i was a dick and misread what you were saying then felt attacked for my opinion(however wrong it may have been)
i love this forum and the way smarter people including yourself that post here
my common sence should have told me i was reading your responce wrong but it didnt and i am sorry i put you down and called you names i see now after my timeout (thx ypedel i honestly needed it) that cooler heads do prevail
you saved this site for all of us and i lashed out at you i am sorry
thx for your understanding
wasp

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