No ebikes allowed?

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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Make More Pi   10 mW

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No ebikes allowed?

Post by Make More Pi » Jun 18 2015 12:16am

This is a sign at a bike trail head. It's in California. You can see the location if you browse to this web address - https://www.google.com/maps/@37.44936,- ... 312!8i6656
Mountain view shoreline park.jpg
Mountain view shoreline park.jpg (77.53 KiB) Viewed 3220 times
It says "No motorized bicycles". An ebike is a "motor assisted bicycle", correct?

What are your thoughts?

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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by Hillhater » Jun 18 2015 1:07am

You would have to check local law definitions.
Where I am, an Ebike ( complying to Ebike regs) , is a very different device to a ICE assisted " motorised bicycle" ( which is now illegal in public places under most circumstances )
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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by dogman dan » Jun 18 2015 5:36am

Yes, depending on state law, the sub 20 mph lower power e bike may be classified as a just plain bike and be legal.

Or not. I would think for sure though, all gassers and all 30 mph e bikes would be not allowed. I've had a few people question my use on trails where I live, but not cops. I just do the usual spiel, less than 1hp and less than 20 mph is legally a bike by federal law, yadda yadda. Even though in fact it's not that law that matters. In my state in fact, my bike is a moped and is illegal on the trail.

People either buy that story, or wouldn't buy any story no matter how legal I was. Some will just want you, and in fact ALL bikes off the trail.

Main thing is, ride like a gentleman. If it sucks to slow to 5mph to pass people because there are too many walking, ride the whole trail at 5 mph. Bottom line, don't piss them off. However, this might not work in California, where beach cops seem to be everywhere. My trails are urban bike trails, and no cop gives a shit unless you need an ambulance.

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Make More Pi   10 mW

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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by Make More Pi » Jun 18 2015 9:43am

A Google search found this blog posting

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/northe ... 45036.html

There is a speed limit posted on the Bay Trail, 15 mph. Likely the very trial I am talking about in OP.

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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by ebent » Jun 18 2015 10:56am

Good point dogman about don't piss them off. On one of my rides there is a wooden boardwalk about a half mile long that hugs the river. A very pleasant part of that ride. There is a sign that reads to bikes or skateboards. I am a trike and I've been on it for years. One time the cops were on the boardwalk sitting on a bench. I stopped for a good BS session. Not a word about my trike. But I have been very considerate to the walkers. I approach slowly. If they do not hear my stereo then I announce myself, give a greeting and a smile and move on.

The boardwalk exists into a park. Dogs are aloud but pick up after they crap. Bags provided. I saw a older women walking her old beagle. The dog left a deposit and the women walked off. I said to her please pick up and be responsible. She said it couldn't be my dog because mine is a female. I had no answer and was trying to think of a comeback all day.
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docnjoj   100 GW

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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by docnjoj » Jun 18 2015 1:01pm

" I'm gunna take a DNA sample of that poop and make a Citizens Arrest on you". There, I said it. Only in my dreams.

Back On Topic
The newer geared motors like the Xiongda and the Cute 100H are very quiet and small. I have told folks that the XiongDa is a 2 speed gearbox, and even engineers believe me. Well, it is! Stealth and being courteous seems to work. I want to replace my wife's 9C front wheel with a Cute, but she won't let me touch it. Damn pie plate. Her DD motor makes more noise that the Cute with a Sinewave controller. Xiongda also has real quiets in it.
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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by arkmundi » Jun 18 2015 1:19pm

There are the current laws. Then there is enforcement. The twain do not necessarily meet-up. Its the enforcement that has the consequence. Only way to really tell is to ride your eBike where you want and wait to see what happens. Most often these restrictions are of little real import, so not enforced. They might be if someone calls the police on you. The people you don't want to piss off are the local pedestrians, because they just might.

I'm riding at 2000 watt eBike at upwards to 30 mph and everywhere I can, including road, trail, park and sidewalk. Giving people a wide margin and being civil, polite. I have yet to get stopped or ticketed, but am prepared for the day I may. I'll argue my way out of any consequence like a fine. I'll use the judiciary if needed. But what I find is that nobody cares, and they admire my being car-free with a nice ride.
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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by granolaboy » Jun 18 2015 1:25pm

I think dogman nailed it...don't piss people off and there (usually) aren't any problems.

Vancouver has bicycle routes throughout the city that are just way too convenient during rush hour for me not to use. The thing is, every few blocks I have to go through intersections that are "bicycle only". Legally speaking, my electric scooter with plates is an LSM, and is not allowed to go through these spots.

But I *always* yield to cyclists. I make a point of never passing anyone too close or too fast. Nobody has even mentioned it to me, and I'm sure that's because I simply don't do anything that's going to bother anyone. That, and I'm electric, so I'm quiet and don't stink. There is no way I'd get away with it on a typical 2-stroke POS 50cc scooter, which are loud and put out more emissions than a 6 cylinder mustang. But I digress...
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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by The fingers » Jun 18 2015 2:27pm

Same exact sign found in downtown Long Beach, Cali. for the separated bike lane across from the police station. :twisted:
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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by Hillhater » Jun 19 2015 12:57am

Relevant post, in case you missed it...
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... =3&t=68828
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lester12483   10 kW

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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by lester12483 » Jun 19 2015 4:52am

Ebikes don't fall into that category. I ride on trails all the time. ebikes are silent and don't upset people either.
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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by Ohbse » Jun 19 2015 5:28am

ebent wrote:She said it couldn't be my dog because mine is a female. I had no answer and was trying to think of a comeback all day.
"Females are [text deleted by moderator]"

I would interpret that sign as stinkers only, assisted bicycles are just bicycles by most legal definition. Even if you're beyond the legal limitations there's no way for anybody else to know that. Just don't be a dick and I'm sure you won't have any trouble.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by dogman dan » Jun 19 2015 6:08am

Ha ha! ladies don't fart, or poop. Everybody knows that. If she's really old though, it's possible that she lost ability to bend over that far safely.

Again, it just really comes down to density of use. So time of day or day of week can matter. But slow it down if its full of people and cops on bicycles. I've also had nice conversations with bike patrol cops on the trail, where it's posted no motors of any kind. Likely would have been a different encounter if I'd been riding 30 mph on the trail.

What I mean is, there are trails you can ride 30 mph, and I have done. And there are times and places to mellow out and cruise it at 15, or even 5 mph.

But those earbud wearing joggers that run up the center of the trail, I don't fret much if I piss them off.

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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by ebent » Jun 19 2015 7:10am

Ha ha ha, I like the comeback lines. I wish I would have thought of it at the time. She was full of shit! But the laughter was worth it.

In some ways I wish there were more EV bikes and trikes around here. But there are very few. Now I recognize a benefit. If there were a lot of e bikes by the rule of large numbers there would be some bad boys in the mix. That brings a bad rep which brings the subject up at city and county commissioners meetings. Then rules and signs of "no motorized bikes". So the low key not many e-bikes has an advantage. So far...
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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by rasputin1197 » Jun 21 2015 7:00pm

In some ways I wish there were more EV bikes and trikes around here. But there are very few. Now I recognize a benefit. If there were a lot of e bikes by the rule of large numbers there would be some bad boys in the mix. That brings a bad rep which brings the subject up at city and county commissioners meetings. Then rules and signs of "no motorized bikes". So the low key not many e-bikes has an advantage. So far...[/quote]

Well Put.... the "Bad Boyz" will screw it up for sure!!

I ride daily on the Palm Beach Bike Trail (No Motorized Vehicles). Being respectful to others on the bike path is paramount. I take it a bit further, by not engaging my motor(just coasting & peddling) as I approach and leave others on the bike path. This works 99% of the time. For those wonderful and entitled 1%...I display several "disabled" stickers on my bike.(I'm Disabled...but what ever) Completely solved the problem. My back up plan is a disability attorney on speed dial.

After I done with them, their chauffeur will be working for me :wink:

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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by Syonyk » Jun 21 2015 9:56pm

At least in King County, Washington (Seattle), electric bikes are explicitly not allowed on trails like that.

... so I just try to slow down and pedal past people. Though lately I'm back on the road as the trail is very dry and gritty, and it's coating my bike in grit.
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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by striider » Jun 22 2015 2:49am

In Colorado, we don't yet have those fascist signs that I have noticed. Granted, I am more of a ask for "forgiveness" type person by nature, so maybe I should stop and read all the fine print. It really boils down to enforcement, and I have seen 0 cops on the trails here. For example, I did a pretty long trail ride on Saturday morning, about 20 miles of trail shared by walkers, runners, pet walkers, soccer moms with giant strollers walking abreast, and bikers. I even went through an organized 5k going opposite of my direction and no one got angry. By slowing to pass, pedaling, and calling out "On your left" often, and not gunning it near pet owners, I seemed to avoid aggro the whole way. Courtesy goes a long way. On the other hand, I think the lycras I passed (while pedaling mostly for show) may not have enjoyed me much.

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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by striider » Jun 26 2015 4:35am

On Bike To Work Day, I stopped at a breakfast station that happened to be manned by the local parks and trails guys. I talked with them for about 45 minutes, and they did mention that discussions are in the works about what to do about ebikes. I guess some punks garnered some attention last year on a trail leading to downtown, and some negative publicity for ebikes. They didn't furnish the specifics, but it made them start talking about a solution, which is bad. One bad egg, right? :evil: Keeping my ears open for any hearings or meetings on the topic of trail regulation locally.

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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by Sean9002 » Jun 28 2015 6:01pm

Well this is just the cycling community in general mate. They want to share roads with trucks/busses/cars, but wont share cycle tracks with ebikes. Its hypocrisy propelled by the self styled lycra wearers. I skateboard (now in my 30's) and have done so my whole life. People always tried to stop us from skating. I spent years being chased by Police/security gaurds etc with my middle finger in the air. My ebike attitude is going to be the same as my skate attitude if lycra clad weenies try and tell me where to go :roll:
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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by dogman dan » Jun 29 2015 7:09am

Yep, on the other hand, know when to stand your ground and when to sneak it.

I made a bad decision to stand my ground on the trail one morning, and almost got in a fight. There was about 50 of them jogging, trying to hog the trail, some kind of convention group. They looked like firemen. They said all bikes were not allowed, and I just went off, telling them they were full of it.

That could have ended badly. :roll:

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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by mrbill » Jul 02 2015 5:50pm

Make More Pi wrote:This is a sign at a bike trail head. It's in California. You can see the location if you browse to this web address - https://www.google.com/maps/@37.44936,- ... 312!8i6656
Mountain view shoreline park.jpg
It says "No motorized bicycles". An ebike is a "motor assisted bicycle", correct?

What are your thoughts?
I've ridden this trail a few times on my e-bikes without incident.

But, under current state law any e-bike is classified as a "motorized bicycle" and so would be illegal to ride on this trail, given the signage.

As dogman and others note, enforcement is infrequent, so you can most of the time get away with riding your e-bike here without hassle provided you ride courteously and with deference to other trail users. But, I should also note that since late 2006 when I started riding e-bikes, I have been accosted twice in the last year by park rangers who informed me that I could not ride on the trail. Both times I was stopped on or beside the trail when I encountered a park ranger. Once I was kicked off the trail (without being cited), and the other time I was told I wasn't allowed to enter the trail.

With increased e-bike use, police and (mostly) park rangers are becoming increasingly aware of e-bikes and the laws that apply to their use. We can no longer rely on ignorant or indifferent enforcement.

If you don't like the current law, then please show support for AB-1096 that amends state law to treat e-bikes like bicycles (for the most part) and not like "motorized bicycles" that when the current law was written were assumed to be noisy, smelly 2-stroke gassers. See:

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... =3&t=68828
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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by dogman dan » Jul 03 2015 7:41am

Hooligans on ebikes will eventually assure banning, and enforcement. What can you say, we're mericans. Well paint a confederate battle flag on the roof of our car and tell the world to F off. It's how we roll. :roll:

Hopefully, I'm old enough not to see that day come in my state. For now, park employees are not police, and don't give a shit if they see me. And real cops could care less around here.

The best single track trails in the area just became a National Monument. That's bound to suck, once Ranger Rick arrives. For now, no budget so all still good on the dirt trails.

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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by arkmundi » Jul 03 2015 11:27am

An amusing story from yesterday, July 2nd, the day Worcester celebrated Independence Day with concert & fireworks, an annual event with lots of attendance. What with it being the high political season and all, me with my BernieSanders.com 2016 banner, I head off to express myself. I setup at the entrance, eBike, trailer and banner. Only to be confronted by the Worcester Police. WTF?? The question was, "Do I have permission to be here?" Like...??? I, as civil as I can be, say I need no "permission", I'm the public at a public event and have first amendment rights, it be the 4th and all. A long drawn out argument ensues - they really want me to leave. I don't. The police officer says, we'll see, she's going to make a couple of calls, asks for name, address, and ID.

Latter, she comes back around, sits down and we have a second conversation. Making no demands, polite. We get to talking. I've got two signs - the Bernie sign, and my "Car-Free, Light Electric Vehicles" sign. We talk bikes, trails, safe roadways. She's a cyclist herself and was curious about the eBike thing. After awhile, she says something that indicates it was not my Bernie sign, but the bike that had them worried. All the while, I'm thinking they trying to deny my first amendment rights of free speech, and at an Independence Day celebration. I'm really incensed, but not visibly angry.

So public event, Boston Marathon bombing, dude with some strange looking contraption, at crowed entrance... yea, I could see what must have been going through her mind. I'm sure they looked me up in the vast security database to check me out, and I must have come back clean, or else would have been arrested. As I sit there, I notice just how many policemen are there, the squad cars, police on bikes, plain-clothed, uniformed. At one point a canine unit with 5 dogs comes through. Now I'm wondering if they did not have some cause for suspicion, a bomb threat or something. The dogs in particular looked like bomb sniffers.

Yea, dude, we live in 'merica and f'em all, I've got the freedom to bomb the f'out-of'em if I disagree with their brand of sh*t. Glad, being there, that the police took what ever it was seriously.

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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by dogman dan » Jul 04 2015 8:11am

At least you didn't make your battery container out of a cooking pot.

We all know how a typical bike battery assembled from hobby king packs looks.

Black bag with wires coming out of it, perhaps they should have checked you out. But of course, no asking you to open the bag!!! If they walked the dog by you, they were sniffing you out for sure, and came up clean.

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Re: No ebikes allowed?

Post by arkmundi » Jul 04 2015 8:48am

Well, my bike at least, I'm sure those dogs caught a whiff of me and thought, nice guy, smells like us.

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