Steel Ebike Frame EASTGEM ~600$

EDIT 9/25 The frame is now up on aliexpress starting at about $615 shipped to US. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Denzel-Gross-M-Frame-Set/32434973925.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.2.yVBnyH&ws_ab_test=201526_3,201527_1_71_72_73_74_75,201409_3
I received my frame this week (below mid on page 3) and went over a few measurements. It's pretty decent, and raptor-esce.

Hey guys, I came across this frame and am in the process of getting final pricing.
The whole bike is supposed to weigh 77lbs w/around 40lbs of hub and battery
Frame is supposed to weight about 20lbs. I don't know if it's high tensile.
D/O 155mm



With 24" tires and full length tripleclamp fork as pictured, it looks to me like the rear travel could be lengthened thus raising BB to about 1" above wheel centerline (I was thinking that's optimal for 7in susp travel?), and taking a slack 61deg head to hopefully +65deg. (isn't 65 kinda a minimum?)

I've looked at pictures of some of the vectors, raptors, flux etc and this frame is different I think, based on bb height and headangle alone. Tell me if you think it'd be good?

My current new build is having issues running a 7" tripclamp fork while keeping the bb height close to the wheel centerline and headangle above 61deg- so this looks nice for a big travel bike, plus the frame obviously allows energy storage.

The other benefit of the frame is that a motor should be easy to mount under swingarm for a nice middirectdrive setup. I like my 1st build, but it'd be nice to have dedicated batteryspace, big travel, and a cost effective easily to duplicate setup.

Also please let me know if there's any thing I'm missing when shopping for a frame like this.

Interesting find. It might be a good starting point to modify into a great bike.

However, That bottom bracket is far too low for any off road bike. It might be OK for a street bike only, but the rest of the design reflects an off road bike. Sort of. That front bag looks like the front wheel is going to slam into it and get jammed over the first bump larger than a squirrel.

You don't want "high tensile" Steel. that's a marketing name for mild steel. One of the worst iron alloys you can make a bike frame out of. It would still be functional, but it would need to be double the weight of even the lower grades of CroMoly steel. Finding out a bike's frame is Hi-Ten is about like finding out your T-bone steak is Select.

I guess 'high tensile' is a misnomer without the corresponding number anyway. Looks like HT can be 40k(mild steel)-120k psi. I'm not sure the tensile strength of cromo, but I didn't think for a minute this frame would be that anyway. Are any of the stealths etc cromo? That would def allow for a lighter frame.

the bag thing is an accessory (yeah, looks like it'd get tore up), but I'm not sure on the bb either (aren't they sposed to be 12-14" off the ground, depending on susp travel/crank length?) It looks inline with the 24" wheel centers, which shouldn't be more than one inch lower than most bikes?

Add rear suspension travel/height and that raises bb and flat fork rake.
Just not sure what is really optimal on a frame like this.

I'd pass on it, for the reasons stated above.

If you jack up the rear, you'll change the fork angle too much. So don't buy it, unless you can ride it as is, on the street only.

There's good reason it's for sale.

Thanks for the input DS and DD. I'm up in the air. Will confirm price, metal tensile strength, and more measurements.

Being a steel frame, it may be a nice base to work off of, dependant mostly on price. (it's a new frame btw- you can buy the whole bike too)
I also haven't seen another steel frame that is so friendly for a midmotor mount. Most pivot the swingarm much lower, making a midmotor difficult due to the shock. This higher pivot allows the motor under the arm.

I will print it out and play with the picture to see what happens when changing geometry. I'm convinced the 61deg rake is too flat anyway, so a little tweaking does not bother me.

I'm wondering if I'm correct in assuming 65-67deg rake and 12-14" bb height. Pretty sure thad be great.

OH SNAP. Well, if those figures are desirable, that's great, cuz according to paper, it looks like increased rear shock height will result in 66deg/13' bb height with the stock wheel size of 24".

I've seen alot of this style frame with much higher BB's. My Klein build is sitting currently @ 15" (ground to bottom) and I am waaay to high up to achieve a good pedal stroke and still touch the ground. I'd rather try for a little lower, and steel is much kinder for mods should it be desired for a higher BB.



Anybody, show me the flaws in my lucid dreaming?

PS, besides the 48" w/b. I wanted shorter, but oh well.

I was just told the quoted price is FOB. In no way shipping cost was implied or suggested with the product price, so I'm not sure what why we are beating around the bush. and wth the hangup is.

Plus, FOB only means anything when used as 'FOB shipping' and 'FOB delivery' which means either buyer or seller pays shipping. I don't understand why the seller is so outof touch with the west, but maybe that just means they're making enough $ in the east. I know I wouldn't give an EF if I made enough money in my initial market.

Just me venting, not trying to derail the geometry questions above.

If the geometry will be improved by jacking it up, then sweet! I just assumed it would lessen the rake of the fork, and make it worse. If it's too slack now, then stand it up to the angle that will work good. The right angle for street at 40 mph is likely not the same angle you'd want for off road, more like 15-20 mph most of the time.

Low pedals not such an issue on street though, especially since you won't be pedaling really. And hauling ass a slacker fork should be good.

New shock mount so you can use the same shock, and do adjustments for street or dirt rides? It's steel, why not? But I guess you are aiming at pedaling, and perhaps off road, because you want to run a mid drive.

So if you can lift the pedals and keep good angle for cross country off road, go for it. Bear in mind, you might be able to tune the front shock an inch lower too.

My MXUS 3000 V1 part of Tesla's group buy last year sits in a box as an unfinished project because I'm still undecided as to what to put it on. Depends on how I'll power it, whether 60V, 72V or 96V, so how fast & powerful. Primary aim is 35 mph on road and road legal. Discussion useful - not in a hurry.

Ark, this bike could work for that. They have a stock model with alarm, lights, signals etc for around 2k I think. You could omit their hub & battery and omit or upgrade the suspension.

Looks like I may be the test for the frame and some components. Communication is slow and difficult, but it looks like

painted frame
2 tires
2 throttles
alarm
crankset, bb, pedals
bike seat and bracket

should cost about 600 shipped to US.

Thanks Dan, I just wish I knew what angles are best, but the ability to adjust from 60-66 rake, bb height +/- 2-3", and susp travel on a steel frame should carry the ability to tailor it for specific style/desire I hope.

Just thought I'd share my 'source' now that I've reached where I expected in regards to payment.
exerp from email
__________________
jay wrote:
> Thankyou. Corrections, questions
> 1) tires are to be 24x 2.4
> 2) is it possible to estimate the customs price?
> 3) with a direct bank transfer how does the buyer have any protection?
> In my experience buying great stuff from overseas, I am able to use credit
> card, and the price includes any customs. This way there is some protection
> for the buyer. This is what people expect. It's general practice.
> I just do not understand how your company expects overseas clients to
> transfer money up front and take a bet that they get the product. How is
> there any protection
> Thankyou

reply:
We have shop in www.taobao.com - but it's in china.
We opened account in aliexpress - maybe in next week we can start to sell
our products by aliexpress.
Usually we cooperate with trade company, not with a person - so before we
no have this problem. I undestand you. So you can wait. In next week i
hope you can buy our products from aliexpess.
Thanks.
_________________________

I really think these guys will have a great product, all they need is a good payment interaction with people over sea etc.
I really hope they get going on aliexpress, I may be their first customer, as the tires, frames, accessories, and whole bikes should def have a niche.

Their site is eastgem- and I think some may know them here. The only bad stuff I've heard is they need buyer payment protection, and there is the usual language barrier?
http://eastgem.net/index.html

Whadya guys think?

http://eastgem.net/gross-72v-3000w-plus.html
View attachment 1

My dream build, where I was eventually heading with the MXUS3K at 72V and a Kelley Controller, full suspension, lights & turn signal, road-legal.

I know, and if they're willing to allow a bit of 'pic and choose' it's a killer diy option. They went thru the process with me, but I'm not sure how they'll apply that to aliexp.
The main thing they get setup for more of a 'letter of credit' payment setup, and hopefully we can still order as much or as little as we want.
The guy I've been talking to is very helpful. Moreso than an american 100 miles away from me about his frames for sale.

I'm thinking its ripe for a group-buy. Find out what the minimum order is for "wholesale" pricing. A lot of the Ali companies in the eBike venture seem to say they want 10 orders minimum. Then work out what the total cost is per unit, shipping & customs included. Then find out if they'd be willing to box & ship to each buyer, wherever they are in the world, so there is no second handling. EU, 'merica, Austrailia, wherever. I'd be willing to help with the group-buy thing. I'd be in for a full bike minus motor, minus battery, as I want to put the MXUS on with an A123 AMP20. And as you say, DIY kit, so its just a box of components we'd assemble ourselves.

View attachment attachments_2015_06_25.zip

Here is their pricelist for the bikes and upgrades. It is about 10% savings for 10+, but I see that as more of a 'dealer' option. I am doubtful they will be interested in handling split-shipping and varying packages on already extremely low prices. They appear to be operating on slim profit. (I would imagine a possible 5% price increase when going through aliex, for the added overhead?)
If a groupbuy can happen, that's great, but I'm totally happy with the 1-3pc prices. Honestly, I could see someone that wants to start a small business buying a handful to resell locally, but I need to get my hands on some of it before planning anything like that.

I hear your excitement for a road setup- I'm equally excited for a middirect bht enduro setup ! ! !

Well, surprise surprise. Thru some bleary morning eyes a paypal invoice arrives

I'm giving eastgem a try guys! Wtf am I rhyming?

If you're interested in stuff, just email them. They're on paypal now.

frame, alarm, 3 tires, 2 throttles, pedals cranks bb, bike seat and bracket. 595 shipped to us!

I can't wait to go weight weeny all over this thing. :lol: I sure hope I can keep it under 75 lbs with 6-7"travel, 6kw 12ah, and some knobbies!

is this the same as Em3v? and another russian guy on facebook posted a couple of days ago?

I need more pics as I also dream of a mid mounted motor with a small rear pit bike wheel. It looks like a custom longer shock might work to raise the bb up and then drop the rear wheel size to something ridiculous like 14" pit bike.... The width would accept it and it would only take a few mods of the dropouts to take the the 15mm axle.

It would be a heavy beast though.

This frame appears to be the most unique out of all of them. I'm thinking it will allow a motor under the swingarm. There may be some unforeseen consequences thou I don't know what to expect as I'm the guineapig.
With any frame and middrive, I don't follow why you'd want such a small rear wheel. I understand it for a hub motor though. The thing with middrives is besides tailoring volts and amps for speed/power, we can gear them well.
Even a directdrive bht (20s=2500rpm) can easily be setup on a 26" wheel and 20s lipo to be geared for
(11t:50t= 1:4.54= 550rpm or 42mph on 26" <what I'm running. Now with 24" for a 10% reduction)
so
(11t:80t= 1:7.27= 343rpm or 26mph on 26")

What are the grades and lengths you are climbing? Does gmap-pedometer give you inclines in that part of the world?

In the case of this frame a smaller wheel would offer more space for mounting. It would secondly reduce weight of a pit bike wheel.

There is nobody I know post videos of barely similar terrain to what I ride. Check out my videos to get an idea.

Until I broke my axle I was riding stuff where only traction was the limiting factor. That is not doing a run up as many on here so often claim, it is starting on a steep incline from 0 and not heating up the motor for 10 minute steep sections.

The only stuff I haven't been able to do is clearly 100% and too rough to grab a hold of the ground to have a chance at.

Bicycle tyres are too thin or fragile to last more than a few months of this as I ran. I can only see a way with pit bike tyres. Once you go moto the weight is not going to help either.

Anyway I think 16" 90/100 if it fits a bht or 14" 90/100. That's 90mm or 3.5" of tough rubber with huge knobs also acting as airbags of suspension.

Very good points John!

Jay

You wouldnt have the the dimensions of this bike?

I am really interested in the swingarm in particular, how wide different points are. This would be essential for you to if you were going to power the disc brake side and still want to maintain a normal bicycle drive.

I don't have any more than is on this thread or their site. I am thinking that even though it seems simple to do a leftside drive, it is even more difficult than a dual rightside like I currently am. Very interested if you go that route though, and can get you whatever measurements you want once it arrives.
Also getting ready to order another st3 frame for the lighter weight try at the big suspension version of my klein build. Being that needs custom asymetrical dropouts anyway, maybe that would be better for left side motor drive, but you're not running more than 2.5 wide tyre in that frame, whereas the east gem uses a 3" stock tire.

I'm also looking at manufacturing my rightside drive adapter, and am even talking with white ind on a custom fw. Only issue is, I don't think they're that interested in doing much less than maybe 100 pieces. I can't imagine 100 people wanting a dual freewheeling deal like mine.

why would it be more difficult? there are simple adapters that go to the disc brake side out there and spacing becomes easier

When I tried, spacing for LH drive required much wider pedal stance. Possibly a bb spindle of 160mm vs the 130mm I settled on. With a narrower motor, it would be easier.
Freewheeling wouldn't be possible with white ind fw. A less efficient setup to pedal (non fw)would give ebrake and regen ability though.
And a LH drive might allow for the widest possible tires, although I have a feeling the allignments will be tricky?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lusmsNbSiWg

here is that frame for reference.