Doctorbass 2WD ADAPTTO / NYX / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

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Doctorbass   100 GW

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Doctorbass 2WD ADAPTTO / NYX / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by Doctorbass » Aug 05 2015 11:56pm

:twisted:

:twisted:

let's begin with a bit of history!
Well.... i've been on E-S since 2007 and one of the project i never realised yet but that i 've always been thinking about is a 2WD E-bike!

Now it's time for more fun!!! :wink: yes i know.. i already talked about that a few month ago.. but that project is finally hapenning and NOW !! :mrgreen:

WHY!:
The goal: beating a TESLA S on the 1/8 mile with hub motor based ebike.... and make Elon to hear about this MadMax guy beating one of his production car by an electric bicycle !

Has you probably know already Luke already beat a TESLA with his Death Bike and that is AWSOME! but personally i want to try with Electric bicycle components instead of motorcycle components. and also to make one of the quickest hub motor based ebike.

Keep actual NYX
To accomplish that i will use my actual first NYX bike frame, but i will replace the rear 5403 hub motor by a MXUS to save some weight and will also use less kWh battery.. in fact it will be a 4.5Ah 100C(true) 20 or 22s.

I will keep the front suspension that use 20mm axel so i am finishing the custom axel 20mm front MXUS hub motor.
Both Adaptto will work together with one throttle and both will have their own setting and torque curve.

Time frame oops!!
If i am Lucky i will finish that and beging the test just before we start rebulding our kitchen at home... well i mean... i really hope !!

The Weight!
The bike is actually 103 pounds with 1.9kWh and the 5403. I estimate that with the 4.5Ah lipo and two MXUS and adaptto the bike will remain about the same weight.


Power comparaison:
With the very outdated 5302 i still have in a pile of ebike stock and version 9 firmware on the adaptto i got 10.5hp at the Wheel without any BOOST mode 9 no flux weakening. Now Based on these tested result, i'm pretty confident that i will get at least 17hp and 258lb-ft at the rear Wheel and probably 17 hp at the front Wheel but torque will be less. that would be 34hp if the adaptto does not blow running 3T motor on 22s !

Here is the last step i finished:

Painted Motor and époxy to renforce the magnet to the rotor!
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Last edited by Doctorbass on Oct 06 2015 2:16pm, edited 3 times in total.
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by LewTwo » Aug 06 2015 4:44am

?
The more I learn the more obvious the immensity of my ignorance becomes.
Weight Wennie E-Bike https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 3#p1173723
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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by Doctorbass » Aug 06 2015 9:01am

LewTwo wrote:?
I guess the E-S server was under maintenance yesterday so i was not able to post anything...

Now it's solved =)
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by Doctorbass » Aug 06 2015 9:22am

I am getting really excited that this project is going on now! 8)

btw...I have heard that the MXUS 3T might only have 20 strands instead of the advertised 21. That’s 5% less copper fill.. and 60 strands total… Damn it!!! The 4T have 16 strands witch mean 64 strands copper fill.

For the 1/8 mile drag race I have choose the 3T to get best powerband and keep accelerating for all the 1/8 mile length. But I am still uncertain if I the result would be better with dual 3T or dual 4T.

I know that the 4T would have better torque per amp and that the OVS of the Adaptto could compensate at the higher speed . The 4T is also a 9kv like my actual 5403 and the best sped I can achieve with it is 116km/h. If I want to beat a TESLA I need to reach more than 86mph on the 1/8 mile according to http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthre ... -Mile-Time.
It will be OK in term of power available to do that but in term of speed with the 4T motor of 9kv even with dual motor I doubt that I could get the 22 more km/h than what I have now (116kmh with my actual RWD 5403 of 9kv) as the torqur curve decrease fast.

With dual 3T ( 12kv) motor the torque per motor is less than the 4T but it remain sustained at higher speed witch will give me the kph I need.

In term of torque dual motor mean twice torque!... depending on the traction the FWD can do and the RWD is not a problem.

Dual 4T would give me better low end torque but would lack of top speed…
Dual 3T would give me medium low end torque but keep accelerating until the 1/8 mile reached.

Some say the 0-60ft time is alot important.. and it would be better if using the 4T motor as well…
All these theory will need to be tested!

I still have 2x 9kv motor ( my 5403 and my 4T mxus) so all possibility can be tested.. even the use of one 4T and one 3T on the same bike.

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by MadRhino » Aug 06 2015 9:42am

I believe 2 motors on the rear would do much better than one on each wheel. If you want to use 2 motors and make the best advantage of them, build a BIG dual motor rear wheel and a wheelie bar. :twisted:

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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by \/ampa » Aug 06 2015 9:46am

Nice idea with the epoxy on magnets. I had read some had loosened magnets in the Cromotor.
I have opened two MXUS 3T V2 motors both had written 21x3 on the stator. But i didn't counted it myself.
I woudl stick with the two MXUS 3T V2 and the widest tires that can fit on the bike. :)

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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by Doctorbass » Aug 06 2015 10:16am

MadRhino wrote:I believe 2 motors on the rear would do much better than one on each wheel. If you want to use 2 motors and make the best advantage of them, build a BIG dual motor rear wheel and a wheelie bar. :twisted:

Image
Yeah.. I also tought about that... ex: stacking together two MXUS on the same custom axel.. this would be huge! but doable.

I will try 2WD first as it is something i always been curious about.. then we'll see.. I mean i have to confirm that the 2WD idea work great or not by trying it.

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by macribs » Aug 06 2015 11:46am

*Subscribed!!*

If you are thinking RWD with wide motor, what about QS 250 8kw? Or hubmonster? Or a hubmonster hubbie plus a midmont hubmonster running reduction jackshaft - that would mean wheelie bar needed power :)
What if you had 3T in the front and 4T in the back? 4T in the rear wheel would make sense as weight shiftes backwards during acceleration. Front wheel would have less torque (3T) and would easier keep traction. I don't see any problems running two different turn motors. Each has is own controller and its own excistance.

Well it is fun to throw ideas out, but lets first see what your dual drive can do. Nope can't stop I am on a roll, what about Zombiess high voltage controller to run 24s or >30s? That would take care of the top end.

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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by Cowardlyduck » Aug 06 2015 5:37pm

I would also vote for 2 different motors. 3T on the front 4T on the back.
Macribs put it best already so I won't repeat, but all your speed concerns and torque concerns are solved by the 3T on the front 4T on the rear setup.

Will you do any controller cooling? I have the solution if you will. :D

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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by John in CR » Aug 07 2015 12:09pm

Can't wait to see it fly Doc. I've been wanting to do a high power 2wd for a long time.

I do think you're being overly optimistic with the 17hp output. The most anyone has gotten from a Cromotor is 10.5hp out on a dyno, I think at 24s, and the MXUS3000 is 10% less motor. The speedier winding will help by 1/3, but 10% less stator and 8% lower voltage offset more than half of the gain. A more realistic estimate is 12hp out. You can't take your X5 numbers and gross them up for the wider stator, because they are too different in design.

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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by Doctorbass » Aug 07 2015 12:49pm

John in CR wrote:Can't wait to see it fly Doc. I've been wanting to do a high power 2wd for a long time.

I do think you're being overly optimistic with the 17hp output. The most anyone has gotten from a Cromotor is 10.5hp out on a dyno, I think at 24s, and the MXUS3000 is 10% less motor. The speedier winding will help by 1/3, but 10% less stator and 8% lower voltage offset more than half of the gain. A more realistic estimate is 12hp out. You can't take your X5 numbers and gross them up for the wider stator, because they are too different in design.

Yeah. All next tests will make it more clear.

What i know is that the 5302 old X5 design pushed 10.5hp on the dyno with stock Max-E controller and no field weakening. Now i'm very curious to see how different the MXUS will be with 160A batt instead of the 130A i had with the 5302.. plus the field weakening that will continu pushing power at higher speed. In fact the 10.5hp i got was at the max speed and i suppose that with field weakening i cold have got like 12 or 13hp... on a 32mm 5302 stator

now imagine adding 30A batt + field weakening + 13mm wider stator... this certainly help boosting the hp and get higher than 10.5hp i already got at the wheel. :mrgreen:

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by Doctorbass » Aug 07 2015 10:55pm

Did some test today with only the actual 5403 rear motor with one of the quater mile Android apps that seem accurate enough but not for ther 0-60ft:

60': 2.997s @24km/h
330' 5.973s @89km/h
1/8mi: 10.01s @102km/h
1000': 12.986s @106.5km/h
1/4 mi: 15.987s @109km/h

0-20km/h: 2.997
0-60km/h: 4.967
0-100km/h: 10.002

12.4kW recorded and 143A batt constant at 88V

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by Jestronix » Aug 08 2015 3:37am

Looking good Doc! this will be very very interesting to see, what cells are you running ?

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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by Stielz » Aug 08 2015 3:59am

Cant wait to see how this goes!

I take it you'll be modifying your 2nd max-e as well with the extra capacitors?

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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by cwah » Aug 08 2015 4:47pm

loooking forward for results
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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by litespeed » Aug 08 2015 5:29pm

I forget, what is the red coating made for motors that you used?

I want to do mine so I can vent it.

Thanks,

Tom
I'm married so you know I'm no stranger to pain!

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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by Longshot » Aug 09 2015 10:59am

Hi Doc, i like the idea of 2wd but I would not want the motor in a traditional fork. You really should consider a forkless design to take the weight out of the handlebars. Also, make me one too!
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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by Doctorbass » Aug 09 2015 11:57am

litespeed wrote:I forget, what is the red coating made for motors that you used?

I want to do mine so I can vent it.

Thanks,

Tom

Hi tom as i mentionned in many other threads here is the patr number for that red coating: made my Sprayon : EL601 or A00601A00 and here is the sku: 075577842131 or 075577004980

:wink:

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by Doctorbass » Aug 09 2015 11:57am

Longshot wrote:Hi Doc, i like the idea of 2wd but I would not want the motor in a traditional fork. You really should consider a forkless design to take the weight out of the handlebars. Also, make me one too!

lol.. not an easy taks!.. well i will try first the actual simple design then well see what to improove! :wink:

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by Doctorbass » Aug 09 2015 12:33pm

Yesterday i went to the Challenge 255 1/8 mile drag strip for some tests.

It Was a big even in a small town with also few electric cars like TESLA, LEAF, SPARK and VOLT.

I went to that event with my Volt and the NYX 1WD in the trunk for some race :twisted: prior to convert it to 2WD this week.

Here are the Highlight!:

My NYX accelerate faster than a chevy Spark that have a 400 foot puinds torque electric motor !!!

On the 1/8 mile my best E.T was only 0.002s slower than the best E.T of the SPARK !!

My best E.T is 1 second faster than a Nissan LEAF !!

many Harley Davidson guys was really impressed by how fast that bike is as well as for the torque.. I was in the front of few Harley for the 0-60ft !

The drag strip is really unsuall !! it have a slope on the last 1/16 mile !!!

as well i was using the 5403 motor withs i s a 9kv motor . best would have been a kv of 12. I got slower top speed than on the flat as well.

my best 1/8 mile E-T was 11.7 sec at 58mph

I also observed that the motor temp and battery SOC have significant impact on the top speed and E.T

Image

Image


Video coming soon!

Doc
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CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by macribs » Aug 09 2015 1:05pm

Dang your bike is moving already - sure is gonna be exciting to see how the 2wd turns out.
Now you got hard data to compare with. Next time you go with the 2WD there will be some harley guys parking their gas guzzlers for good and start an outlaw 1% community of e-bikers ;)

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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by fechter » Aug 09 2015 1:15pm

Doctorbass wrote:
I also observed that the motor temp and battery SOC have significant impact on the top speed and E.T
Doc
Maybe try some CO2 or liquid nitrogen to chill the windings before a run.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by macribs » Aug 09 2015 1:52pm

fechter wrote:
Doctorbass wrote:
I also observed that the motor temp and battery SOC have significant impact on the top speed and E.T
Doc
Maybe try some CO2 or liquid nitrogen to chill the windings before a run.

Hehe race cars uses those "hot pockets" to heat up tires, maybe you need one of those but for the hub, and fill it up with dry ice.
Either you will start from take off with super cool motor that will take more abuse or worst case motor will splinter into small fractions like a banana dipped in liquid nitrogen.

I suppose you could find a middle way and have a small Co2 tank and hose cool c02 onto the motor(s).

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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by adriftatsea » Aug 09 2015 5:11pm

Good stuff Doc!

Can you explain your method for applying epoxy? Is that a pneumatic syringe of premixed DP420? Any reason to use it that way versus the normal 3M EPX applicator and mixing nozzle?
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Re: Doctorbass 2WD NYX / Adaptto / MXUS 32kW 105 pounds

Post by Doctorbass » Aug 09 2015 11:40pm

adriftatsea wrote:Good stuff Doc!

Can you explain your method for applying epoxy? Is that a pneumatic syringe of premixed DP420? Any reason to use it that way versus the normal 3M EPX applicator and mixing nozzle?

Well I have used a pneumatic dispenser but you can use any type of seringue.

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

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