MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
Jestronix   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 508
Joined: Jul 18 2015 4:59am

MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by Jestronix » Aug 14 2015 11:09pm

Hi All,

I recently acquired a rare old retro Schwinn 4 Banger. I was looking for dual suspension bike to hit the trails with at low cost, the bike was in good nick so I picked it up for $200, not bad for a bike worth a lot in its time and in good nick.

Then I came across endless and the cogs began to turn. Price entry point for a good power output motor was the Mxus. I chose the 5T as I really dont want crazy top speeds and thought why not get something with good torque in the ranges I'll be riding in. For me happy to max out at 50 to 60kph.

I'm sourcing the mxus in a 26" from Sam at Ballarat E Bikes here in Oz. He put up with my endless questions and started on the wheel this week, hopefully it shows up next week :)

Sams also supplying a 60a controller, which will be interesting to setup and use. I was looking at lyens controllers.

Battery plans are 5x 4s x 5000ma hardcase turnigy lipo for stage 1, only looking to go for 10 to 20 min burns for now. Hope to make this a long removable battery mounted on the front bar. I want it to be removable as this bike will become a commuter bike during the week for stage 2. Headway cells will ride in a saddle bag style setup for a 40klm round trip, safe and inconspicuous commuter.

The old girl

Image

And expected output of around 4kw

Image

Ohbse   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 815
Joined: Dec 26 2013 5:15pm
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by Ohbse » Aug 15 2015 7:32pm

Cool bike!

Would recommend against Lyen controllers and headway cells. There are now better options in all respects.

Controller wise the Adaptto Mini-e is vastly superior to ride and live with. It's a BMS, it's the charger, you can change settings on the fly, it's properly silent, tiny and puts out plenty of power (run mine at 7kw daily)

Personally would highly recommend an 18650 cell based pack. Compared with headways it's smaller, lighter, more energy and more power while being just as safe. There are now a myriad of cells with various energy/power densities. You can tailor the pack to your range requirements.

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7578
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by markz » Aug 15 2015 8:33pm

It's a BMS, it's the charger, you can change settings on the fly
I never knew that, that is cool that its a BMS and a charger all in one package.
Id get the Adaptto Max-e though!!!!
I thought you were joking, but you got to buy extra stuff for it to do that. Charging Coil, etc.

User avatar
The fingers   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6930
Joined: Mar 11 2012 11:22pm
Location: Desert Pacific Cali USA

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by The fingers » Aug 15 2015 8:46pm

http://www.bicyclebluebook.com/searchli ... x?id=89291 8)
Nice bike and a great deal, I had Schwinn bikes since the 60's. :D
Black Schwinn High Sierra
Blue Schwinn Cruiser 5
Blue Schwinn High Plains
Black Fiore Cruzer 5: Amped Warp Drive 26" Front DD/SLA kit
http://ghostbikes.org/
http://www.rideofsilence.org/main.php
Hebrews 9:27

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7578
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by markz » Aug 15 2015 9:54pm

Where are you gunna put the batteries, little room in the triangle.

Jestronix   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 508
Joined: Jul 18 2015 4:59am

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by Jestronix » Aug 16 2015 3:32am

The fingers wrote:http://www.bicyclebluebook.com/searchli ... x?id=89291 8)
Nice bike and a great deal, I had Schwinn bikes since the 60's. :D
Wow I did get a good deal looking at those prices :) quality seems good, no rattles from the suspension etc, but it uses the old 22mm brakes so finding replacements will be hard and adaptors aint cheap. May just use regen.

Battery wise the red 38120HP headways look sweet, 10c continuous, no spot welding, can remove bad cells and 2000 cycles plus. So it will be hard to move me away from those advantages.


The adaptto looks great, but cost puts me off for now.

Yeh the triangle is small, I'll be running two types of batteries as described , one for commuting and one for lightweight small distance runs. But time will tell, will look at all options and recommendations :)

Ohbse   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 815
Joined: Dec 26 2013 5:15pm
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by Ohbse » Aug 16 2015 11:13pm

Jestronix wrote: Battery wise the red 38120HP headways look sweet, 10c continuous, no spot welding, can remove bad cells and 2000 cycles plus. So it will be hard to move me away from those advantages.

The adaptto looks great, but cost puts me off for now.
A pack assembled 24s 1p of the headways will weigh 8kg and under an 80a discharge put out 5.4kw and get quite hot doing it. It will deliver about 600wh, so depending on the speed you want to go may not deliver the juice to get you 40km. FYI my hard tail bike with a 60amp peak controller commuting at 50km/h cruise averaged 24wh/km putting your projected range at about 25km.

A pack assembled 20s8p of LG HE4 or Samsung 25R cells will weight 8kg and under 80a discharge deliver 6.4kw and be barely warm. Total energy 1450wh, 2.4x the range. If you don't need the range then you could drop down the pack size, further reducing the weight/cost. Individual cells can be replaced, perhaps not quite so easily as the headways - however, the reliability of the 18650's is significantly higher - cell replacements are pretty unlikely compared with headways which seem to have a spotty reputation for consistency.

Regarding cycle life, with twice the energy you'll require half the charges. An 18650 pack discharged from 4.1-3.5v will last a long time. Frankly nobody has been running them long enough on bikes to run up against their useful lifespan. In the Tesla world the cell degradation appears to plateau and a very long lifespan is projected. It might not be 2000 cycles, but even if it's half that - that's still likely to be 4 years of commuting every single weekday. The reality is in four years cells will be 50% larger, more power dense and probably cheaper - you won't want to run out a pack for a decade.

I hear you on cost with the Adaptto controllers, however make sure you're adding up all the figures... if you're going Headways you will absolutely require a BMS, regardless of battery technology you're going to need to charge the thing. If you're going with a cheaper controller remember to buy two - they tend to explode right at the worst possible moment. tot up those figures and I'm sure you're approaching the cost of the Adaptto/BMS/Coil/Charger package. It's the best bit I've ever bought for any ebike.

Jestronix   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 508
Joined: Jul 18 2015 4:59am

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by Jestronix » Aug 18 2015 2:27am

Your right the headway's are heavy and take up a fair bit of room. Im leaning back towards the multistar packs in a metal container along the bottom bar, Iv run lipo on my drones for a few years, ive rammed batteries into the dirt from a couple hundred feet up with no fires. They do puff and are fairly prone to failure though. If I can get a year of week day commutes out of the multistar packs ill be happy.

Im really not so keen on spending long hours spot welding, i was thinking about spot welds the other day, very little surface area on the battery right, only the four tiny contacts, must lead to a bit of resistance. Ive had thoughts of loading up button top cells in a pipe and compressing some kind of conductive material between them, someone needs to come up with a tesla style pack where each little fuse wire simply touches the cell, but we want 20amps out of our cell, i wonder if they pull that on each fuse?

Yeh cheap vs adaptto , the mini-E size really attracts me and sinewave quietness. so man options.

Jestronix   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 508
Joined: Jul 18 2015 4:59am

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by Jestronix » Aug 22 2015 3:33am

Wow........ Is all I can say after I took the first ride today, videos on u tube do nothing to let u know what your in for. :)

I had a bit of trouble with the phase lines as they just wouldn't work when matching the colours , Sam suggested swapping them around. Turned out to be it:) yet I have to set the controller in reverse, and no swapping the phase wires doesn't fix it. Maybe hall sensors?

Deep in with the endless adjustments and fiddling.

Image

Installed, and set.

Image

Image

Let's just say I found streets I didn't know about and tested out hills :) scoots up with ease.

Running a tiny 1.8ah 16cell lipo pack, 25-50c nano tech packs from my drone, got about 15 mins buzzing around, I saw about 50amps from them on the controller. My big packs arrive mid week :)

Stoked, also I'm running a 5t winding which give oodles or toque :)

Baron   100 W

100 W
Posts: 197
Joined: Jun 15 2015 9:09pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by Baron » Aug 22 2015 11:21pm

You have a torque arm, right? Looks like you're pushing 4000-5000W peak so you should definitely have one, but I didn't see it in the pics. Just making sure you don't twist your dropouts open and get in a wreck..

Jestronix   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 508
Joined: Jul 18 2015 4:59am

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by Jestronix » Aug 23 2015 4:08am

Baron wrote:You have a torque arm, right? Looks like you're pushing 4000-5000W peak so you should definitely have one, but I didn't see it in the pics. Just making sure you don't twist your dropouts open and get in a wreck..
Only the shitty little ones that come with the mxus, however my dropouts are a perfect fit to the mxus axle, as in they are square dropouts with a round end , they fit like its factory made. However I'll be adding some as backup, no regen atm moment either.

Well one of my tiny and old lipo packs dropped a cell today, so I popped on my bigger packs but only 14s. One thing I did notice was that at 14s and 60amps I finally got the motor to show a little warmth.

User avatar
Samd   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3667
Joined: Jun 28 2011 11:08pm
Location: Ballarat, AU
Contact:

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by Samd » Aug 26 2015 1:29am

Just discovered this thread. Nice work.

Lets get those torque plates happening. An arse is an expensive replacement! :mrgreen:
http://ballaratebikes.com/

ImageImageImage
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing that a 165mm rear shock can't deliver 220mm of rear swingarm travel." - Oprah Winfrey.

Jestronix   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 508
Joined: Jul 18 2015 4:59am

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by Jestronix » Aug 26 2015 9:45am

Samd wrote:Just discovered this thread. Nice work.

Lets get those torque plates happening. An arse is an expensive replacement! :mrgreen:

Elbow grease this weekend along with attaching the rear disc :) just waiting on the 12t freewheel :)

User avatar
Stevil_Knevil   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 771
Joined: Jan 09 2007 8:32pm
Location: Up where the air is fresh and clean

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by Stevil_Knevil » Aug 26 2015 11:44am

Jestronix wrote:

Elbow grease this weekend along with attaching the rear disc :) just waiting on the 12t freewheel :)
Very cool and collectable bike!

Ineresting factoid; Mert Lawwill (watch "On Any Sunday") designed the 4 Banger linkage.

Sorry to say, that 12T freewheel ain't gonna fit :?
16T is the tallest single speed freewheel that will thread onto your motor.

Soldier on..
____________________________________
We don't care. We're riding Ducatis in our dreams.

Jestronix   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 508
Joined: Jul 18 2015 4:59am

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by Jestronix » Aug 26 2015 3:13pm

Yeh she's an old beauty, the front forks are pretty average , but the rear is dam nice and suffers no peddle bob, but sags under braking and now hugely when I put the throttle down. I've got it set mega soft though.

12 T sold here from these guys and they only sell mxus http://kinaye-motorsports.myshopify.com ... -freewheel

User avatar
Samd   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3667
Joined: Jun 28 2011 11:08pm
Location: Ballarat, AU
Contact:

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by Samd » Aug 26 2015 7:15pm

Jestronix wrote:Yeh she's an old beauty, the front forks are pretty average , but the rear is dam nice and suffers no peddle bob, but sags under braking and now hugely when I put the throttle down. I've got it set mega soft though.

12 T sold here from these guys and they only sell mxus http://kinaye-motorsports.myshopify.com ... -freewheel
Yep the 12t will fit. Its a product I developed and shared with Kinaye. Fits fine.
http://ballaratebikes.com/

ImageImageImage
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing that a 165mm rear shock can't deliver 220mm of rear swingarm travel." - Oprah Winfrey.

User avatar
Stevil_Knevil   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 771
Joined: Jan 09 2007 8:32pm
Location: Up where the air is fresh and clean

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by Stevil_Knevil » Aug 26 2015 7:35pm

Image

Well, that is a nice piece of lateral thinking. Very clever!
____________________________________
We don't care. We're riding Ducatis in our dreams.

User avatar
Samd   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3667
Joined: Jun 28 2011 11:08pm
Location: Ballarat, AU
Contact:

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by Samd » Aug 26 2015 7:42pm

Yep, they were about prior for BMX shafts. Takes a lot of explaining across languages to modify them to fit a hub!
http://ballaratebikes.com/

ImageImageImage
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing that a 165mm rear shock can't deliver 220mm of rear swingarm travel." - Oprah Winfrey.

magna_503   10 W

10 W
Posts: 70
Joined: Nov 29 2014 6:42pm

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by magna_503 » Aug 27 2015 2:24am

very nice build.

Jestronix   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 508
Joined: Jul 18 2015 4:59am

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by Jestronix » Aug 27 2015 4:47am

Thanks guys, battery pack in and blackened things up a bit.

Image

So 66v @ 60amps today near 4kw feels good in this 5T , punched a few trails and open paddocks at speed, climbs hard :)

Dam I need some bigger forks though, flex and travel are an issue. I'm now looking for some down hill forks if anyone's got some suggestions at a reasonable price.

Have to say Sam, this controller does the job, blue tooth is sweet.

Jestronix   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 508
Joined: Jul 18 2015 4:59am

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by Jestronix » Aug 28 2015 12:42am

Samd wrote:Nice!

I've got some marzocchi monster rctvxyz thingies from about that vintage. Rough but functional. Only owe me $150. Not sure if I have the 20mm they axle. Pm me if of use...
my lord they are big shocks, then i saw the super monster !

Jestronix   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 508
Joined: Jul 18 2015 4:59am

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by Jestronix » Aug 28 2015 11:37pm

Anyone got any ideas on why I have to run my controller in reverse and set the phase wise like such, I've tried every other combo. It's weird, phase wires are all good. I want to solder them up later on and get it sorted.

Image

Jestronix   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 508
Joined: Jul 18 2015 4:59am

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by Jestronix » Aug 29 2015 6:54am

Well got the disc brake in thought I had everything sorted.


Image

Had to grind the back of the calliper to squeeze between the disc and motor. I had maybe a mm to spare

Image

Tight fit.

Image

Interesting the shot doesn't show it, but the wheel spins freely.

So I forgot one thing, out on the ride things started to get noisy. It started rubbing, I thought maybe that breaking pulled the calliper straight etc, nope, heat was the enemy.... The motor was a mm bigger after 20 mins riding, and thus no clearance. So I headed off home, things got louder this in turn created more heat, made it home whilst letting the whole world know with a massive screeching sound.

I thought I could move this out with washers but it hits the phase cable, I'm gunna see if I can't grind the top of the screws tomorrow and grind some more off the calliper.

I want my rear brakes !

cwah   10 GW

10 GW
Posts: 4204
Joined: Jul 24 2011 5:42am
Location: Between paris and london

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by cwah » Aug 29 2015 7:16am

just put a spacer between your rotor and your motor to get it sorted!
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

Jestronix   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 508
Joined: Jul 18 2015 4:59am

Re: MXUS 5T - 4 Banger Build

Post by Jestronix » Aug 29 2015 8:25am

cwah wrote:just put a spacer between your rotor and your motor to get it sorted!
Trouble is the screw hit the phase cable, v2 mxus has the cable entering the axel at that point, plan to shave the tops off.

Post Reply