Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
antipody   1 µW

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Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by antipody » Sep 14 2015 11:37pm

Hi guys,

My workplace may need to soon grow its fleet of ebikes. I'm researching models and have yet to find time to go and visit any of the local retailers.

The kind of urban bike we have currently is excellent. It's got a nice headlight, indicators, back tray, tops pania bags, comfy to ride. 7 speed Shimano gears. I really like the twist throttle just like a motorbike. While these bikes were made in Australia and are excellent, apparently we recently had to get rid of two because they had some kind of design flaw that meant just plugging the power cord in while the wall switch was on damaged the batteries!

I'd like to get some more with at least these features but want to trial new models. We have lots of different types of riders (around a thousand staff) and there are a lot off gravel and bush trails that our current urban model perhaps isn't suitable for.

A mountain bike with regenerative brakes would be great, as I ran out of batteries the other day and want to maximize batt life as much as possible...

Obviously as these are for multiple users at work I'm after something robust that is easily servicable and tough...

Any suggestions of makes and models would be hugely appreciated, as I know very little about ebikes.

Simple818   100 W

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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by Simple818 » Sep 14 2015 11:52pm

I think most people around here are going to tell you the same as I'm going to tell you. "Build your own".

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wesnewell   100 GW

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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by wesnewell » Sep 15 2015 12:22am

Need Advice? https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=66302
Mongoose 26" Ledge 2.1 mtb bike $99, yescomusa.com 48V 1000W rear hub kit $200, Hua Tong 72V 40A controller $35, 10ah 24s lipo $217=~43mph, range=45 miles @ 20mph. 25K miles and still going strong.
Huffy Fortress 3.0 with MXUS 3000 4T motor, 24s lipo, 96V 60A controller. Total cost with extras <$700. Top speed ~50mph
My videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0KW4U ... _G2wQhptMg

fredfire   100 mW

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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by fredfire » Sep 15 2015 12:23am

The problem with ready made bikes is the cost compared to what you could build. A simple build consisting of the "perfect" bike with a good ebike kit will be much more adapted to your needs but you will need a mechanic to assemble and maintain the bikes.
If you insist of having a built ebike, I suggest haibike or felt with the mid drive. They make excellent mountain and commuter bikes with the Bosch mid drive system.

jesusjesus   10 W

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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by jesusjesus » Sep 15 2015 12:42am

i would skip the regen, not worth it imo, the power you get back is minute, and it stresses the battery.
even better, a bigger battery and run a 20 - 80% soc - run a 15 ah instead of a 12.
battery life will be better. :-)

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wesnewell   100 GW

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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by wesnewell » Sep 15 2015 12:50am

If it's so minute, how does it stress the battery. :) The benefit of regen braking is more for braking than recouping any energy. I've been using it for years and have never had to replace my brake pads. And I've been using the same battery over 3 years and 12K+ miles. :)
Need Advice? https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=66302
Mongoose 26" Ledge 2.1 mtb bike $99, yescomusa.com 48V 1000W rear hub kit $200, Hua Tong 72V 40A controller $35, 10ah 24s lipo $217=~43mph, range=45 miles @ 20mph. 25K miles and still going strong.
Huffy Fortress 3.0 with MXUS 3000 4T motor, 24s lipo, 96V 60A controller. Total cost with extras <$700. Top speed ~50mph
My videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0KW4U ... _G2wQhptMg

jesusjesus   10 W

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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by jesusjesus » Sep 15 2015 2:16am

wes; what s your regen procentage, i would ask?

motorbraking is not "free", you are stressing (heating) the motor and the frame is being stressed with sometimes huge mechanical forces on the dropouts- if changing dirt cheap brakepads are cheaper/better thats an open question.

regen is generally speaking mostly hype, it came and vent, most controllers i'v seen don't implement it well, like say a Tesla car.

if not matched correctly, like in a custom build, a battery might not be up for the job of high C bursts in the opposite direction. also it ads complexity. KISS

Ymmv. ;-)
Last edited by jesusjesus on Sep 15 2015 3:16am, edited 1 time in total.

ebent   10 kW

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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by ebent » Sep 15 2015 3:08am

You've got my curiosity. At your work there are 1000 people. And you are going to furnish a bunch of ebikes for use by all the employees? Is this a fringe benefit? What does your company do? are you the owner?
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remf   10 kW

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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by remf » Sep 15 2015 3:37am

antipody wrote:...made in Australia...excellent...lots of different types of riders...lot off gravel and bush trails...regenerative brakes...maximize batt life...robust that is easily servicable and tough...
Definitely the new Stealth Fighter - it ticks all the boxes especially LONG range. Next best option could be Flux bikes custom built for your requirements.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =6&t=71666

antipody   1 µW

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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by antipody » Sep 15 2015 7:08am

I would think that as much as I'd love to build and perhaps not maintain them, as the bikes are owned by the organisation (a gov dept) we'd have to have some kind of contract to maintain them. A staff committee manages the bikes and one of our employees manages that contract along with the department's car fleet.

As a members of the committee, it's up to us to maintain the bike fleet, however, as staff come and go, we really need to be able to strike a deal with a supplier that can do repairs if necessary and can't depend on the committee to build and maintain bikes.

As I mentioned, the supplier of our current bikes has given us a really nice bike for the city. It hasn't been a good investment though as apparently a defective design issue whereby apparently the batteries were damaged from ordinary use meant we had to scrap two and now need to spend more on new bikes.

ebent   10 kW

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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by ebent » Sep 15 2015 7:54am

Perhaps your agency can make an offer for bids to provide the necessary maintenance. It could be a full time job for one or more depending on how many bikes are needed.
2005 catrike pocket trike, sold 2013
750 watt hub motor
48v 18ah Lifepo4 electrified 1/2010
2014 HP Scorpion fs 26 April 2015 owned
electrified 6/6/2015 ride till you die...don't die riding
48v 20 ah LiMn2O4

antipody   1 µW

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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by antipody » Sep 15 2015 7:59am

No, that would be ridiculous. We want a couple of bikes that don't need maintenance....

There's no way we'd want bikes that needed constant maintenance. That sounds way too much like the way our IT contract works :pancake:

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by spinningmagnets » Sep 15 2015 8:54am

I talked to an electric bike shop owner just yesterday, and they have had a pleasant experience renting motiv brand ebikes to tourists. Just an option to consider.

Edit: when you say "work fleet" what kind of ebike work do you mean? The type of work can affect appropriate suggestions...

antipody   1 µW

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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by antipody » Sep 15 2015 9:58am

Thanks for the Motiv pointer. They look nice!

The bikes are encouraged to be used for recreation as well and work functions. This might involve long rides up several of the mountains around here as well and on and off the large number of bike paths in this city.

The one thing that puts me off all the electric mountain bikes I've looked at is the lack of a back tray. While I appreciate it's not something you generally want on a hardcore mountain bike, it would be useful to get more bikes with good back trays and capability to mount a couple of pania bags in addition to having regen brakes and good off road strength.

Canberra was designed for cars so long rides can required, hence the desire for regenerative brakes. Anything to extend the duration of a charge would be great.

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wesnewell   100 GW

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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by wesnewell » Sep 15 2015 11:37am

jesusjesus wrote:wes; what s your regen procentage, i would ask?

motorbraking is not "free", you are stressing (heating) the motor and the frame is being stressed with sometimes huge mechanical forces on the dropouts- if changing dirt cheap brakepads are cheaper/better thats an open question.

regen is generally speaking mostly hype, it came and vent, most controllers i'v seen don't implement it well, like say a Tesla car.

if not matched correctly, like in a custom build, a battery might not be up for the job of high C bursts in the opposite direction. also it ads complexity. KISS

Ymmv. ;-)
I don't know or care what my percentage is. I use the same brand 72V 1500W 40A controller and same 10ah 24s battery on both my bikes. One is a 1000W motor and the other is a 3000W motor. Hype my butt. It doesn't stress the motor any more than going wot, and it sure as heck a lot safer than using just the brakes. Try stopping a 370lb GW bike from 40mph going DH in a hurry without regen braking and you'll see what I mean. If you mount the motor right it won't matter to steel dropouts. And I've never used torque arms. But this is getting way off topic, so if you want to debate the advantages and disadvantages of regen braking, you should start a new thread for it, or maybe just add to an old one.
Need Advice? https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=66302
Mongoose 26" Ledge 2.1 mtb bike $99, yescomusa.com 48V 1000W rear hub kit $200, Hua Tong 72V 40A controller $35, 10ah 24s lipo $217=~43mph, range=45 miles @ 20mph. 25K miles and still going strong.
Huffy Fortress 3.0 with MXUS 3000 4T motor, 24s lipo, 96V 60A controller. Total cost with extras <$700. Top speed ~50mph
My videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0KW4U ... _G2wQhptMg

jesusjesus   10 W

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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by jesusjesus » Sep 15 2015 12:18pm

@wes
i was just you answering you. and expressing my opinion on "regen". (the "selling" reusing power part)
i have tried it, and IMHO it was not a good experience, unpleasant "fly-by-wire" feel - better to use an Acme-ambolt with a steel wire.

great it work for you, but its not a nobrainer for everyone, with diff battery setup, bms, frame. and so on.

Raged   1 kW

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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by Raged » Sep 15 2015 7:03pm

Why dont you just approach one of the ebike builders locally and ask if they will do custom builds under contract. I'm sure there's a few ebike builders who would love an ongoing service contract.

I dont know any in Canberra, but in Syd there's emax ebikes ( http://www.emax-ebikes.com.au/ ) and Glowworm ( http://www.glowwormbicycles.com.au/ ) just off the top of my head. The solution might be easier than you think with a simple email/phone call.
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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by zan5hin » Sep 18 2015 3:08am

Without knowing more details like quantities, budget pricing, three main use scenarios, it is hard to give advice.

The cheapest way would be to get your own Bafang middrive kits from emax eBikes in Sydney and build the fleet yourself. This reduces reliance on external shops for maintenance which would be much more affordable if bike tinkerers did it in-house.

Alternatively if you want the best, I would recommend the Bosch Gepida Reptila 1000, or any other bike with Nuvinci Harmony N|Sync system.

There is a good review at ebike reviews. Com. Au

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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by teslanv » Sep 18 2015 8:43am

jesusjesus wrote:@wes
i was just you answering you. and expressing my opinion on "regen". (the "selling" reusing power part)
i have tried it, and IMHO it was not a good experience, unpleasant "fly-by-wire" feel - better to use an Acme-ambolt with a steel wire.

great it work for you, but its not a nobrainer for everyone, with diff battery setup, bms, frame. and so on.
I'm with Wes, on this.
Regen is hugely beneficial for better braking. If you have lots of hills, like where I live, it is almost a necessity. The energy gained back is appreciated, but not the point, IMHO.
And like Wes said, it is no more detrimental to the frame or battery than en equally powerful excelleration.
I do use torque arms, and prefer the clamping type, however.
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ebent   10 kW

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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by ebent » Sep 18 2015 9:02am

This is confusing. The first indication is a work force of 1000 to use these bikes. A gov't agency. The bikes are for work and play. and 2 bikes for 1000 people? If is just 2 bikes why even mention 1000 workers need electric bikes? Are the bikes for a few people at the top or for all. If for all you need a lot more bikes. And what will the tax payers say if you are buying recreational bikes with their money? It seems like there is more to the story...
2005 catrike pocket trike, sold 2013
750 watt hub motor
48v 18ah Lifepo4 electrified 1/2010
2014 HP Scorpion fs 26 April 2015 owned
electrified 6/6/2015 ride till you die...don't die riding
48v 20 ah LiMn2O4

flyinbrick   100 mW

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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by flyinbrick » Sep 18 2015 1:19pm

Have you thought about digging deeper into the cause of these failures? Is it possible the problem resides with the charger? Is there some sort of inline electrical device to put inline between charger and battery? Is is the battery BMS? There could be a much cheaper alternative rather than replacing all the bikes.

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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by eMax » Sep 18 2015 8:48pm

antipody wrote:Hi guys,

My workplace may need to soon grow its fleet of ebikes. I'm researching models and have yet to find time to go and visit any of the local retailers.

The kind of urban bike we have currently is excellent. It's got a nice headlight, indicators, back tray, tops pania bags, comfy to ride. 7 speed Shimano gears. I really like the twist throttle just like a motorbike. While these bikes were made in Australia and are excellent, apparently we recently had to get rid of two because they had some kind of design flaw that meant just plugging the power cord in while the wall switch was on damaged the batteries!

I'd like to get some more with at least these features but want to trial new models. We have lots of different types of riders (around a thousand staff) and there are a lot off gravel and bush trails that our current urban model perhaps isn't suitable for.

A mountain bike with regenerative brakes would be great, as I ran out of batteries the other day and want to maximize batt life as much as possible...

Obviously as these are for multiple users at work I'm after something robust that is easily servicable and tough...

Any suggestions of makes and models would be hugely appreciated, as I know very little about ebikes.
Hi mate. Happy to help you out and help where I can. For conversion kits we can help and have a dealer in Canberra who can certainly facilitate local support. There is also the option of some Bosch bikes, we have an importer here in Sydney to talk to regarding this. PM me for details (I will send you one) but essentially plenty of options.
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LI-ghtcycle   1.21 GW

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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Aug 28 2016 10:45am

With the information on your needs/use, and your still getting to know E-Bikes, I would suggest something like this:

Image

https://electricbikereview.com/izip/e3-protour/

You get what you pay for, and frankly, unless you're going really fast, over considerably rough roads, or on super technical off-road conditions, you rarely need suspension on a bicycle.

That said, a hard-tail is nice, but I think you would be really hard presses to get as much features & quality as this bike for the $$$.

Mid-drives are the way to go! What ever you choose, since you're wanting maximum range, I would get a pedelect so you can set the assist low for maximum range, that way you're not likely to blow through your battery half-way through the trip, and not having to hold a throttle constantly is nice.

Of course the Bafang BBS02 is really nice, but I honestly think nothing beats a bike with a frame that is built for the electric assist from the ground up, better fit, finish and function all around.
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

LI-ghtcycle   1.21 GW

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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Aug 28 2016 10:54am

Another good choice by Haibike is the XDURO Trecking RX: (About $1000 USD more than the Izip tho)

Image

https://electricbikereview.com/haibike/ ... ekking-rx/

P . S. I really enjoy the www.electricbikereview.com site, the reviewer seems to be pretty impartial and isn't afraid to tell you when he thinks a bike is lacking something (especially when it's a higher priced bike that "should" be better than others!).

Anyway, my thought is always the KISS (keep it simple stupid!) principal, no more bells & whistles than needed, something that just works! 8)
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

LI-ghtcycle   1.21 GW

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Re: Recommend ebikes for a work fleet

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Aug 28 2016 11:34am

If you wanted something more aggressive for off-road you could always put a rack on this: (years ago, I thought I wanted a enduro motorcycle for both off and on road, but I was on-road more than off, so I just had a really high vibration bike that wasn't well suited to what I did most of the time, and it rattled it's self to the point of cracking the frame in several places, point is, a bike should match what you do MOST of the time, try to do everything, and you will end up often with too many compromises and less practicality)

Image

https://electricbikereview.com/izip/e3-peak/

Another hard-tail yes, but again, KISS principal, less moving parts = less maintenance, parts to service, replace, etc.

*** Discalaimer *** you might have noticed I have posted mostly Izip models, a few years ago I would NEVER have recommended Izip as I didn't like their build quality or lack there of, these days, they seem to have really stepped up in the quality department, and are one of if not the longest Ebike running companies still going, AND they have a very good price point, you will typically spend more in the $7,000+ range to get many of the standard features of these bikes, just my "Humble Opinion" I have not owned one, but from all my researching online of reviews and such, the 2015+ models of IZIP are the best bang for the buck for a "turn key" bike I have seen yet since I got started in this E-Bike thing about 9 yrs ago.

Good luck!

Let us know what you decide to go with and post lots of pics! :mrgreen:
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

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