New alibaba battery and new controller, more speed?

Hi there!

Bought a new triangle li-ion battery from aliexpress the other day:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Great-Triangle-electric-bike-battery-48v-20ah-Samsung-cell-lithium-ion-for-1000w-1500w-2000w-motor/32401868802.html
Got it for 384 USD including shipping which is pretty cheap, apparently they had some sale. It's half the size of my liFePo4 and light as a feather ( 4.8kg), so I'm carrying it in my backpack until the triangle frame bag arrives, also from China.

Then I bought a new 1500w 48v controller:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-Bicycle-Brushless-Motor-Controller-48V-1500W-18-Fets-For-E-bike-Scooter-/391198702418
This I paid 37 USD for including shipping. Nice price.

My motor is the same as before, a 1000w 48v brushless Chinese thing, says max 480RPM. http://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-New-Style-Black-48V-1000W-Brushless-Gearless-Hub-Motor-for-Rear-Wheel-Ebike-/171560558140

Now I'm trying to figure out the controller. It has "self study"-mode and 3 speeds.

First of all, why does it need different speed settings? I want to regulate the speed with the throttle so I soldered the two wires together so that it is set to the max speed all the time. Could anyone tell me if that is a bad choice?

Secondly, I'm not sure about this "self study"-mode. It gets my bike running without hall wires and that is pretty cool, and when I connect the hall wires everything is good. But - I had some odd experiences with it. When I first put it in self study-mode I had a smaller battery connected to the controller. When I switched to the more powerful battery without using self study, it did not run smooth anymore. Without hall wires it was almost useless until I put it in self study mode again. So how exactly does this mode work? Does it calibrate the controller based on the effect it gets from the battery? And does it matter what speed setting the controller is set to? I cut and hid most of the wires I don't use inside of the controller and now I'm starting to wonder if the speed wires need to be available.

The speed improvements I'm seeing are very modest so far, I would like to have more. Any advice would be appreciated!

The speed function has three wires. What pair of wires did you soldered? If you doesn't plug anything to them you will be driving at 100% of the power, this is the most efficient configuration for the max speed of your controller.

If you use a 3 speed switch, you just can also use the 50% mode (less amps output, 2/3 the max speed, energy savy) and the 120% that gives around a 20% more top speed at almost a 50% more of amperage consumption.

the self study basically auto-configure the hall sensors. Did you first made the right phases and halls combinations to make the motor move smoothly? or it was right function with the default combination?

Thanks for your input!

I soldered the black and the blue together, so I guess it's in the 120% setting. Sounds like I should change it. Do you think the controller will react differently if it's set to 100% when doing self study?

I will look for this kind of switch. Do you know any good places to get one?

I only connected the phase wires and it started running backwards. Upon doing a new self study without cutting the power it was running smoothly in the right direction. Then I connected hall sensor wires and it worked without changes.

Hi,

I've been riding this very same combination of motor and a 18fet 45a controller for 1000km, 26inch wheel and 14s 18650 used laptop batteries. I always needed the 3 speed switch. From stand still even the slightest move of the throttle on a take off with the fastest speed it could easily make a wheelie (My wheelbase is short: I'm Large on a Medium MTB)... funny but the lack of control is worrying in most of situations. Now I can't live with 3 speed.

I always had hall sensors connected and the performance was amazing, the top speed was an incredible 68kmh with a 15s lipo battery (second battery). Really smooth riding. So if you have problems of performance and noise it should be a problem with the wires. Remember to completely isolate from water the hall wires, that makes a big difference as well.

On the other hand I only used study to change the rotation of the wheel, once is going forward you leave the two white wires disconnected. Are we talking about the same wires?
cheers

You should connect your hall wires, then do the self study procedure. Connect the self study wires and switch on. Sometimes the motor will start slowly on its own while it figures out your motor. If it doesn't do that, open the throttle a bit. Once the motor is turning, you switch off, disconnect the self study wires and it will keep the setting.

The three speed switch doesn't have to be used. Many of these Chinese controllers can get a speed boost by using it. Not all work like what I will describe, but the probability is that yours does:

With the connector left open, you get normal operation with 100% power. With the centre wire (ground) connected to one of the other two, you get restricted speed (maybe 50% but varies). With the middle wire connected to the third wire, the controller changes the timing to get a higher top speed. It only works if you have the hall sensors connected. The boost will be about 10%. You shouldn't leave it permanently connected because you will have lower efficiency at low speed, so identify which two wires are involved and put a switch between them to use the boost feature.

Some controllers work differently. The controller is programmed to give three different speeds for the three different combinations, one being 100% (normally maximum), in which case you need the switch to get the normal maximum speed, although I doubt that yours works like that.

Great!

I followed your advice and it works like a charm! Found an old button for a horn or something that I could use as a "turbo" button. No wheelies yet, but almost 60 km/h. Very happy!


Thank you very much!

Below pls find a switch for your reference. I found it in taobao.com. I guess it should be available on ebay. Also, there is one together with the twist throttle in one piece.


Regarding your battery, my battery has the same output socket like yours. But that socket is just rated for 10-15A. Do you find any problem on using it? Or you have switch to other connection? I am planning to change mine because I want to go more than 15A although I seldom need to do so. But if you have no problem with it when going more than 15A, then I will consider not changing it.

Thank you for the tip! I ordered a switch like that from aliexpress now, will see if I will use it instead of my button when it arrives.

Actually the picture of the connectors on my battery in that picture is misleading. The one I got was much smaller, had one vertical and one horizontally arranged pin, like so [ |-- ]. Don't know the name of this plug and I don't know how it will like the connecting sparks in the long run. Maybe someone knows where to find a proper switch, preferably with an integrated automatic fuse?

I've ordered a bunch of 4mm bullet connectors, been using those with success for power and phase wires so far. But it's not perfect for batteries because it's easy to get shorts if they get in touch with metal.

After doing some reading I realised that I may not need a pre charge circuit or a power switch as the controller already has that covered. The only problem now is to find a nice low power on/off switch and figure out where to put it.

I use this one:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E-bike-El...itch-Button-/201150489745?hash=item2ed580e491

On the top, the three positions of the turn lights, L - R, works for me as a three speed switch.
The red button is the thin red wire power cutoff.
And the green is the Horn. Yo can find 48v and 60v horns in Aliexpress or ebay.

Thank you!

I ordered one like that as well now.

Found an other possible solution for the spark problem - it seems holding the brake which has the kill switch greatly reduces the spark too. There was no firework when connecting the battery now. Is this as good as using the lock wire?

If that works for you.....

I always had spark and they finished/melted the connector contacts after a few weeks. The best way to remove it was:
First ebike: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRUCK-CAR...HOT-ROD-KIT-/360919209569?hash=item5408761661 Rainproof but quite bulky.

Second ebike: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/63A-DC-Ci...ric-Bike-UK-/271990741484?hash=item3f53e959ec Not rainproof, but really compact and also with short protection. Best solution for me.
This is an specific DC current breaker. AC breakers are cheaper but not recommended for High DC voltages.


Cheers.

utsi said:

Found an other possible solution for the spark problem - it seems holding the brake which has the kill switch greatly reduces the spark too. There was no firework when connecting the battery now. Is this as good as using the lock wire?

Click to expand...

Holding the brake can't affect the spark when you connect the battery. The spark is caused when the input capacitor/s instantly charge up. If you disconnect and re-connect, you won't get much of a spark because the capacitor/s will still be charged.

You only need to worry about the spark if you need to remove the battery for charging, otherwise your ignition switch will OK for switching off the battery. Perhaps if you want to leave your bike unused for a couple of weeks or more, you should disconnect the battery.

Thank you, fesanand, I ordered from your second link. The last thing I need is something bulky

@d8veh, I'm sure about holding the brake now, tried both ways many times and the results are consistent. Plugging in the battery without holding the brake creates a very big spark and a loud sound, so much so that people walking by are turning their heads. Doing the same while holding the brake is creating a barely visible spark.

Now I'm trying to get rid of the rather unsightly big, white molex connecting the halls to the controller. Being a computer guy I have a lot of cables laying around, but no small male to female of anything smaller than regular USB. I will use it until the mini-usb I ordered from China arrives.