What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by 999zip999 » Nov 18 2015 12:03pm

Go 72v 40-60 amp controller. What controller do you have now. What battery ? Little more info.

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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by sonnetg » Nov 18 2015 2:44pm

cwah wrote: Yeah that's also possible to buy jump bike... but in that case wouldn't that be simpler to buy an ebike frame?

I haven't bought ebike frames yet because I'd like to have a bike where I can carry a passenger, that's why I'm looking toward cargo bikes.
one thing about SS dirt jump bikes, the rear dropout is probably not 135 mm. I think it around 110mm or 120mm. You will probably have the strech the rear dropout a bit. If you have disk brakes, it could be difficult to align it properly.

I am also in search for a CrMo frame to upgrade to, and have decided to go with a Surly Troll frame. I like the MC/Hbrid bicycle frames, but these bikes will attract too much unwanted attention on the trails and roads. I would like my bike to be as stealty as possible.

As for utility bikes, these bikes are definitely more practical and utilitarian than a MC/Hybrid bike. Hauling goods or passenger should be easily possible.

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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by cwah » Nov 18 2015 5:26pm

999zip999 wrote:Go 72v 40-60 amp controller. What controller do you have now. What battery ? Little more info.
Got a 54V40AH battery with 48V35A sine wave controller from bmsbattery. I've been considering upgrading controller for a long time but I haven't found any decent sine wave at decent price.

Key requirement is to have a controller that is:
- Sine wave (I can't stand the noise of square wave)
- Have regen braking
- Decent price (Adaptto is a bit over the roof)

Can't find anything yet.
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by cwah » Nov 18 2015 5:28pm

sonnetg wrote:
cwah wrote: Yeah that's also possible to buy jump bike... but in that case wouldn't that be simpler to buy an ebike frame?

I haven't bought ebike frames yet because I'd like to have a bike where I can carry a passenger, that's why I'm looking toward cargo bikes.
one thing about SS dirt jump bikes, the rear dropout is probably not 135 mm. I think it around 110mm or 120mm. You will probably have the strech the rear dropout a bit. If you have disk brakes, it could be difficult to align it properly.

I am also in search for a CrMo frame to upgrade to, and have decided to go with a Surly Troll frame. I like the MC/Hbrid bicycle frames, but these bikes will attract too much unwanted attention on the trails and roads. I would like my bike to be as stealty as possible.

As for utility bikes, these bikes are definitely more practical and utilitarian than a MC/Hybrid bike. Hauling goods or passenger should be easily possible.
Yeah and bigger motor are more like 145mm + even more with disc brakes....... so I wonder what's best. I need passenger capability for sure.
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by John in CR » Nov 19 2015 11:52am

cwah wrote:so I wonder what's best. I need passenger capability for sure.
DIY. Instead of a high priced bike frame probably made of the wrong material for ebikes, get a welding machine and plenty of good quality steel along with some cheap stuff to practice and learn. Then build exactly what you want.

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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by cwah » Nov 19 2015 4:35pm

I don't have the space and equipment to go DIY. I live in a small place and can't afford to buy expensive equipment I'd need to sell few months after when I move... :(
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by John in CR » Nov 19 2015 7:00pm

cwah wrote:I don't have the space and equipment to go DIY. I live in a small place and can't afford to buy expensive equipment I'd need to sell few months after when I move... :(
No problem. Find a Hackerspace with metal working equipment near you. There are quite a few between London and Paris, which is your listed location. There's nothing like building your own primary transportation.

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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by Jonathan in Hiram » Nov 19 2015 10:01pm

cwah wrote:
999zip999 wrote:Go 72v 40-60 amp controller. What controller do you have now. What battery ? Little more info.
Got a 54V40AH battery with 48V35A sine wave controller from bmsbattery. I've been considering upgrading controller for a long time but I haven't found any decent sine wave at decent price.

Key requirement is to have a controller that is:
- Sine wave (I can't stand the noise of square wave)
- Have regen braking
- Decent price (Adaptto is a bit over the roof)

Can't find anything yet.
I've been looking for something similar to what you want.

This seems to be working for some people, 60V max, up to 240 phase amps for 10 seconds, 100A continuous, regen to zero speed, sine wave, $179 plus shipping. You also need the $19 programming cable at the bottom of the page.

http://kellycontroller.com/kls6018s24v- ... -1339.html
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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by cwah » Nov 20 2015 4:04am

John in CR wrote:
cwah wrote:I don't have the space and equipment to go DIY. I live in a small place and can't afford to buy expensive equipment I'd need to sell few months after when I move... :(
No problem. Find a Hackerspace with metal working equipment near you. There are quite a few between London and Paris, which is your listed location. There's nothing like building your own primary transportation.
They are not really close, it's more like 1h away from where I live... and there are always queue, lots of people and only available on specific day of the week.

It's really so much hassle that I'd prefer by far to buy one. Can you help? :p
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by cwah » Nov 20 2015 4:05am

Jonathan in Hiram wrote: This seems to be working for some people, 60V max, up to 240 phase amps for 10 seconds, 100A continuous, regen to zero speed, sine wave, $179 plus shipping. You also need the $19 programming cable at the bottom of the page.

http://kellycontroller.com/kls6018s24v- ... -1339.html
Wow great find!! It seem slightly cheaper than the sabvoton.. is it better too ? any review? :)
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by cwah » Nov 20 2015 3:45pm

Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Jonathan in Hiram   1 kW

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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by Jonathan in Hiram » Nov 20 2015 5:31pm

Here is a thread about the Kelly sine controllers.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... e#p1086107
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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by cwah » Nov 22 2015 6:05am

Jonathan in Hiram wrote:Here is a thread about the Kelly sine controllers.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... e#p1086107

thank you. i've read the thread but can't find out answer about regen. the spec says it has abs regen but i don't know how good it is if it's not variable? i'd like to use regen as my main braking method and i don't know if without variable if that's good enough.

i'm hesitating with sabvoton that are about the same price:
Image

but much heavier,bigger. however it has variable regen and foc
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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by Jonathan in Hiram » Nov 23 2015 4:06am

The Kelly is FOC but I still don't know about the regen..
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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by cwah » Nov 23 2015 4:04pm

is FOC about being able to have extra acceleration speed?
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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by Jonathan in Hiram » Nov 24 2015 9:39am

cwah wrote:is FOC about being able to have extra acceleration speed?
More about smoothness and quietness, acceleration is handled by enough amps from the controller to saturate your motor, which is probably between 100 and 150, 240 phase amps is more than your motor can really do anything with other then create a lot of heat.

I think in theory an FOC controller should be capable of field weakening which is overdrive for electric motors (more speed less torque) but that doesn't seem to be enabled on this controller.
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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by jimmyhackers » Nov 24 2015 10:51am

i found that the faster you go the more dangerous it gets.

40mph isnt that great when its wet and some trogladyte pulls out on you without looking.

there are three main ways to make an ebike faster.

more amps = more torque, faster acceleration, less battery life (would help you nip away early from busses but they might catch you up again)

more volts = more top speed, same acceleration, new battery needed. this wouldnt help you get away from busses (unless they all stuck to the speed limit,which they dont)

loose weight = this one get a bit personal so sorry if your fat.....but i weigh around 10 and a half stone, my friend weighs 16 stone. youd be amazed how much difference weeight makes to any moving vehicle.

lighter bike (or car) = faster acceleration, less fuel/battery consumption, higher top speed, better braking, less brake wear, better hill climb speeds, less tyre wear.


failing all of these you could pedal faster
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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by John in CR » Nov 24 2015 1:27pm

Actually higher voltage also increases acceleration, just not on the launch. It broadens the torque curve if you compare simulations at different voltages, because phase current tapers off less quickly with rpm since the peak power point is moved to the right.

"More dangerous" is too general. Everyone must evaluate their own overall safety relative to conditions. It's easy to understand that increasing speed increases risk in the event of an accident, however, using that one factor to evaluate overall safety is foolish, because judicious use of higher speed and acceleration can greatly reduce the odds of having an accident.

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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by cwah » Nov 26 2015 2:28am

Ok, i think I'm going to buy this controller because it's much smaller than the sabvotton (i have a dahon jetstream):
http://kellycontroller.com/kls6018s24v- ... -1339.html

And to change setting I need this?
http://kellycontroller.com/tek-usb-to-r ... -1345.html

I have a mac and android mobile phone. So I suppose I will still be able to plug it to my android mobile phone to set it up?

Nothing else needed and all good for my leafmotor 1000W and 54v40AH battery?
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by John in CR » Nov 27 2015 11:06am

cwah wrote:Ok, i think I'm going to buy this controller because it's much smaller than the sabvotton (i have a dahon jetstream):
http://kellycontroller.com/kls6018s24v- ... -1339.html

And to change setting I need this?
http://kellycontroller.com/tek-usb-to-r ... -1345.html

I have a mac and android mobile phone. So I suppose I will still be able to plug it to my android mobile phone to set it up?

Nothing else needed and all good for my leafmotor 1000W and 54v40AH battery?
I thought you wanted to upgrade for mixing with traffic in a manner that gives you greater safety using acceleration with a bit more speed to create better spacing from cars. Kelly is known to post specs that overstate their real world performance, and while I'm sure the new controller is an upgrade for you, it's not enough controller to drive the size motor I believe you need to accomplish what you're after. Are you instead planning to get there by adding a 2nd motor for 2wd?

I like the idea of going to a 40ah battery pack, and can't wait to go to 45ah or 60ah myself, but what is a 54V battery? Do you mean a 48V pack that has a 54V top of charge voltage?

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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by cwah » Nov 27 2015 1:05pm

I currently only have a 1000w leafbike motor and a small dahon jetstream:
Image

If I keep the current set up I probably won't put more than 5000W on that bike anyway.... so a "small" kelly at 240A (phase) should be ok.

Otherwise a much bigger one (QS motor) with an adaptto 72V 300A (phase) but it would require a bigger bike. Don't have anything yet....

I say 54V because I have a 14s
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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by John in CR » Nov 27 2015 2:14pm

I just wanted to be sure you weren't expecting what your thread title suggests. I'm a firm believer in safety in that manner, though it does require a greater level of focus and an understanding of how cars move to achieve greater overall safety than slow riders. I greatly prefer staying safe meaning that I simply have to ride mistake free as opposed to being a slow moving obstacle relying on motorist to avoid me.

Now that there are some frames available with a battery bay in the traditional bicycle triangle area, that's obviously the easiest route. Like you, I'm not totally sold on that arrangement. I like a lighter front end, and I believe a big battery can be more stealthy than the pregnant guppy look. Right now I'm hashing out the details to see if I can come up with something similar to a Sachs MadAss, but is much closer to a bicycle. Then it can still look good with smaller wheels like your little Dahon, which is so important for high performance with a hubbie, but can handle a big scooter hubbie.

I hope you find what you're looking for. Another way to DIY something suitable without owning the tools is to make a new friend at a local metal work shop. Doing up some torque plates using their shop scraps is a good ice breaker. Guys who put metal together love something new, and once they understand the capabilities of modern hubbies and batteries their brains start churning too.

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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by wesnewell » Nov 27 2015 4:45pm

Got to 24s with a 40A controller and you'll top out at 45mph with your motor and can run at least 20 miles at 40mph without over heating it. You'll meed a minimum of 1.4kwh to get 20 miles. 2kwh would be better. Or figure 75wh per mile. Accelleration should be almost twice as fast as it is now with 14s. This controller should work fine. If you ride it hard, you might want a 60A 18 fet, but it only takes 40A for top speed.
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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by cwah » Nov 28 2015 4:30am

I did a random BID thinking I wouldn't get the bike on ebay... and finally won a Madsen cargo bike for £400 (or 600USD):
Image
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CARGO-BIKE-Ma ... 1756664766?

It seems like good value for a branded bike and steel frame. The bike worth double the amount new:
http://www.madsencycles.com/collections ... set-orange

It's slightly too big for me but maybe I can still accomodate... (91Lx27Wx44H).

I was thinking to put on it:
- QS 205 3000W motor on moped rims & tyres
- Sabvoton 72V 150A
- Front suspension 100mm

So it would accelerate fast, reach 45mph and be able to carry passenger? Shall I pay or is it a shit idea?
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Re: What motor and controller to escape cars danger?

Post by etard » Nov 29 2015 1:25am

I would check the Head tube size, it looks like 1" threaded, good luck finding any decent sus forks in that size.
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