Folding electric fat-bike

Hello, some pictures from a friend new bike:

Really nice! What frame is that?

Niiice! Looks like a Trailviper. If I didn't already have 2 bikes, I'd pick up on of these!

drew12345 said:

Really nice! What frame is that?

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Don't know, looks like http://www.bad-bike.it/eng/bad.html

Or Alibaba http://compass.alibaba.com/tag/sear...g-folding-strong&pid=60286855504&posCate=1221

I bought a Trail Viper 10 days ago, this is the same bike with a different name, (or the other way around, take your pick) pretty much it seems? My first E-bike of any type, 2 weeks ago I didn't even know there was such a thing, now I have one, and another on order! I took it out the other day in 6" of powder (fairly heavy, not fluff) and after getting the hang of it, had a blast. A buddy who's a hard core mt biker stopped by (I'm not, but that may be changing) and to my surprise didn't divisively laugh. Rather he got intrigued by it, especially after he saw how it handled the snow we got the night before.

I should mention that the reason I specifically wanted a folder, is that I operate a small crane service, and often unexpectedly find myself needing transport. I have a beater car that I can tow to a job IF I know in advance it may be needed, and I also have a Montague folding mt. bike (my second, been riding them for around 15 years now) that pretty much stays in the hangar or the airplane. I have a small experimental/LSA type bush plane, and the Montague fits it perfect if I take out the rear seat. The Montague sometimes goes on crane jobs, again, if I know in advance. But the only place for it was up on the bed. So, after getting a ride on a e bike a few weeks ago at a desert fly-in, I immediately got e bike fever and started getting somewhat more educated! When I googled "folding electric bikes" this among many others popped up, but it was the fattie tires that made it unique and made the sale. My airplane has special bush tires, very low pressure and 29" high and made for landing about anywhere, so I am all over fat tires, bring it. I had hoped the TV would fit into one of the crane's existing large rigging boxes under the crane chassis, but after it arrived it was obvious that wasn't going to work. Bummer.

Then....I realized I had a 24" by the trucks width space behind the truck cab and where the crane hydraulic tank sits, and a little measuring showed I had found the perfect location for the TV. I had aluminum diamond plate sheared and bent and am in the process of fabricating a weather tight and lockable box for it that will match my other boxes on the rig, and be stealthy as in no one will know what I have in there until I get it out and ride off. I will not need to fold it entirely, I'll just fold the handlebars down (5 seconds at most) and run it up a light ramp onto a u channel in the box that will guide it into place, with another u channel capturing the front tire. With the door closed it won't need to be otherwise secured, I want it to be super quick and easy to get out and put away. I'll post pictures once I get some the proper file size, this is my first post here and I'm still learning. This site is a great source of info and much appreciated.

While I was waiting for the TV to arrive, I discovered the BAFANG mid point drives, and realized that I could convert the Montague without compromising it's ability to fit in my very small plane. So, Luna Cycle has a kit on it's way, I'll post separately on how that goes.

It's working in the direction of the real thing, but it's only 25% of the way there. This little folding mongrel looks like it can't do anything a mountain bike doesn't already do, only it'll do it slower.

That folding business has got to go; it spoils every bike that has it. If you want a weak, heavy, creaky, flexible bike that fails you when you need it most, make it fold. Folding bikes are at their best when they sit unused in the trunk of a car. That's what they are for, fundamentally.

If you end up liking this bike for your unique application, you might also appreciate a Suntour NCX seat-post.

Chalo said:

It's working in the direction of the real thing, but it's only 25% of the way there. This little folding mongrel looks like it can't do anything a mountain bike doesn't already do, only it'll do it slower.

That folding business has got to go; it spoils every bike that has it. If you want a weak, heavy, creaky, flexible bike that fails you when you need it most, make it fold. Folding bikes are at their best when they sit unused in the trunk of a car. That's what they are for, fundamentally.

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I hope you find a Swift Folder someday to offer your valued opinion.

I've been so tempted to contact Peter Reich to look into a custom Swift Folder to accommodate FATter tires.

Chalo said:

It's working in the direction of the real thing, but it's only 25% of the way there. This little folding mongrel looks like it can't do anything a mountain bike doesn't already do, only it'll do it slower.

That folding business has got to go; it spoils every bike that has it. If you want a weak, heavy, creaky, flexible bike that fails you when you need it most, make it fold. Folding bikes are at their best when they sit unused in the trunk of a car. That's what they are for, fundamentally.

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Not my experience, not at all, my two different Montagues have provided safe reliable transportation, and some great trail riding in very remote areas, for nearly 20 years now. Most importantly they have provided a way for me to get car gas (all I ever use, never Av gas) for the plane while on XC trips through out the West. I calculated at one point that I've hauled at least 6000 gallons of mo gas/car gas on the bikes. 10 to 20 gallons at a time. I fly over 200 hours a year and have for a long time. Not to mention a way to get around on the ground in general, nothing worse then flying into some place, like Superman, and then being reduced to walking, and not having ready access to food, beer, a motel maybe, whatever! There's a huge safety aspect also: if I know I can land outside of Whereever Montana, and comfortably wait out an approaching cold front in town because the bike made it possible for me to get there, rather then push on hoping to beat the storm, it's absolutely worth any perceived disadvantages. The Montague is worth it's weight in gold to me for the purpose I use it. Plus it's been a great ride for running around in town locally, I sure can't tell it folds when riding it, very stiff and "regular bike like" to me anyway, maybe some Lycra types could feel the difference but I sure can't. They have been 100% reliable and trouble free except for the usual flat tires, broken chains etc.

The Trail Viper usage should be similar, the advantages will out weigh (pun intended) the disadvantages, if any. Sure a non folder is structurally simpler, probably lighter, less expensive, and has less things to go wrong, but like us pilots who fly with folders say, "if it can't fold (in less then a minute) and fit in the plane, what the hell good is it!" A better bike, left at home, isn't what I'm after.

Having now defended the folding concept, at least for my purposes, and having e bike fever like I seem to do, once the Viper/crane combo is up and running, and the plane's Montague BAFANGed..... I am already thinking of a straight/non folder full sized fattie, maybe with a Lightning Rod power unit, for use on the trails around the very rural area I live in. I think then I'd be on my way to having all the bases covered bike wise

Nice seat spinning magnets, I'll keep it in mind. The TV does have a rudimentary sprung seat, better then nothing anyway. I aired down to 10 lbs on the ride I took the other day in the snow, and that noticeably made for a smoother ride as there was rough ground beneath the snow.

I should also mention that since the TV is my first e bike experience, (and I didn't know about this site and the vast storehouse of knowledge) I wasn't confident enough to even think of converting any other already in the marketplace folders, like the Swift. Cool bike, nice and light, though it doesn't have fat tires! The TV came fully assembled and is working as advertised, I paid $1299.00, free shipping, and got it in a few days. Instant gratification, and now that my e bike cherry is busted, I already feel ready to take on the Montague conversion.

Ykick said:

Chalo said:

That folding business has got to go; it spoils every bike that has it. If you want a weak, heavy, creaky, flexible bike that fails you when you need it most, make it fold. Folding bikes are at their best when they sit unused in the trunk of a car. That's what they are for, fundamentally.

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I hope you find a Swift Folder someday to offer your valued opinion.

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.

The Swift Folder is one of very few folding designs that respects the basic engineering principles of the whole frame, and not just the fold joint. I haven't had the opportunity to try one, but it would be my first resort among commercially available small-wheeled folding bikes.

I have a preliminary design for my own folding frame that I'm eager to try out. Like the Swift, it won't have a particularly small fold, but it will have a frame of even higher overall integrity.

craneplaneguy: Montague and Fuji full-sized folding bikes, along with Ritchey Breakaway separable frames, are also the best of the breed in their exploitation of the seat post as a removable structural member. The fact that all three designs use full sized wheels helps their functionality, too.

The Montague and the Swift Folder have the same problem compared to normal bikes: very poor support of the bottom bracket. This gives them much less torsional stiffness under normal pedaling forces, or when the front wheel encounters a bump. In other respects, they should both behave pretty normally.

Probably the single worst folding bike I've checked out firsthand, and a strong contender for worst bike of any kind, is the Bickerton Portable. It was heavily marketed to private pilots in its day. I have never encountered a flimsier or creakier bicycle. I have to refer to things like cheap folding suitcase dollies to make any relevant comparisons to the Bickerton.

Chalo said:

I have a preliminary design for my own folding frame that I'm eager to try out. Like the Swift, it won't have a particularly small fold, but it will have a frame of even higher overall integrity.

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Well that will be interesting to see, is it front burner or back burner? Folders are an intriguing but difficult design area, respect to those who try.

I did train commutes for about 10 years with a Brompton. It almost fell into the first Montreal pothole it saw, after that I learned to plan ahead a bit more and not rely on jumping. I still love that brommie, nothing works better when traveling for me. Nothing else you can carry onto a bus and hold in your lap. Nothing on it ever creaked, and after I replaced the original begging poodle handlebars with short flat bars it was pretty stiff. I have to rebuild it one of these days, and if I ever feel plush I'll get the Brompton Grin kit. As for wheel sizes, a lot of people on this board commute on tiny skateboard wheels, hats off to them, (and helmets on!)

My favourite folder was a 1960's/70's Victoria Precision Voyageur (20" tires). I put 2" tires, a boom seat and a squeeky horn on it. It commuted cross country over snow and ice and raced in a local MTB race. Since I was young and strong I delighted in riding it past small herds of middle aged spandex while whistling and riding no hands. Eventually first one then the other chanstay parted ways with their spot welds. Too lazy to get it welded and sandblasted I just trashed the 50lb mild steel/salt alloy carcass.

I think it would be very cool if you could take a full suspension bicycle, and have it so the rear spring suspension mechanism and the bottom bracket hinge point could easily be unbolted, therefor making the bike "folding". I will have to look into this some more, I think it could be done in a reasonably way, depending on the design of the rear suspension. I will have to start looking at FS bikes and see whats available.

This was just a thought, because I am brain-storming and have come up with a game plan to cut my old non rear suspension bike in half and have a sandwich method, bar/pipe method to the bikes tubes. But while I've been thinking of how to build that, I viewed the QLBIX video, and the idea came to mind.

I like the idea of the Swift Folder.
[youtube]4vxY5R7f02c[/youtube]

[youtube]0GkAbdiCZEQ[/youtube]

I like the idea of the Swift Folder.

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I don't. It does pack very compactly, and looks light, but it takes 3 minutes to put together! Who wants to spend 3 minutes in the rain on a sidewalk fiddling with tools and little bitty parts scattering around? To me the Swift looks like part of the "sporting goods" collection of dusty objects at the back of a suburban garage.

Brompton folds and unfolds in 10 seconds, no tools, no loose parts and it's a real bike people tour and commute daily for decades.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd9opEICGgQ

If anyone can make a solid bike that's lighter, more compact than Brompton but folds just as fast I'd be very interested. It kills my elbow to lug it around and it's still pretty bulky on a bus.

jpgey, how long does the Trail Viper take to fold?

I reply for jpgey. I need 10sec to fold it.
First time I try 10min to fold it and understand how...
Now i m very quick . i fold it to take train too.

Yeah, 10 minutes is too much.
Brompton Vs Dahon Folding Bikes
[youtube]DvWCbKb3clc[/youtube]