Fixing a flat on a hub motor is easier than you think

I see in many threads that people talk about the difficulty of flats with hub motors.
They suggest they go to heavier tires and wheels so that they reduce the risks of flats.
Heavier wheels and tires destroy rolling efficiency and suspension function and should be avoided in my opinion when possible.
The only time heavier wheels should be used, in my mind, is when they break spokes from torque or get blow outs from velocity impacts, but better quality tires/rims could help those issues and still give the benefits of lower wheel weight...Higher efficiency, faster acceleration and braking, better maneuverability and less gyroscopic effect.
In the racing MTB scene, it is widely known that the most effective place to remove weight is the wheels, and race times always improve on a lighter weight wheel set as long as the lighter one is as strong as the heavy one. So, with all the threads on efficiency and technology...what about this very simple one?

Tubeless is great, but has it's own issues...all my MTBs are tubeless...but this tip is for tubes.

Here is the secret magical hack....which seems to escape so many.... (i'm sure some people get it)

Carry a tire lever, mini pump and a patch kit...that's all.
1- Leave wheel ON THE BIKE...do not remove chain or anything at all.
2- Deflate tire completely if leak doesn't deflate it completely for you.
3- Use tire lever to pop off one side of tire bead, to access the tube inside....only really need it opened 6" or so, no need to pull bead off whole side of rim.
3- Pull tube out partially, preferably at the puncture point if obvious, otherwise ya may have to search it out a bit....pump can make it hiss to find spot easier.
4- Patch tube, wait a whole minute or two for it to dry...doesn't take much patience.
5- Push tube back into tire, add 1-2psi with pump so the tube is more round but not firm as this will help it not to pinch while mounting the bead.
6- Mount the tire bead to the rim, use the tire lever to fully seat the bead. Make sure the bead its seated all the way around before pumping.
7- Pump up the jam, Pump it up while your heart is thumping.
8- Ride that bitch!

(In other words, you only need to remove a wheel to REPLACE a tube, patch kits work great and don't require wheel removal.)

Much love y'all, HappiHollidaisy!

Yeah that will work, unless side walls got sliced between rocks. I get what you mean about weight. But do remember that with an e-bike you have the option to go bigger. Bigger rims [aka lightweight motorcycle rims], lightweight 2 ply tires, (unless you feel you need stiffer sidewalls and then go for tougher 4 ply tires) and ghetto style tubeless. To much rolling resistance with wider m/c tires? Go bigger motor. You can always add more

If you get a flat and run tubeless, remove the object protruding the tire, insert the brush thingy from tubeless repair kit, give it a few strokes then place the chewy plug in place. Refill either from canned air or pump. Flat should be repaired in less then 2 minutes. 8)

And you will have no risk pinching new holes in the tube like you would if you would need to put the tire back on.

If you think those lightweight m/c rims are too heavy, you could even go all in and get carbon fiber rims that can hold grown mans tires.


Of course if you are after lightest possible commuter then go for a light and nimble friction drive, light weight frame and wheels and just a big enough pack to make it to work.

For sure, I hear those points, and if those are common issues, then beefy rims and tires are a good option.
I'm thinking purely in a power to weight ratio sense...as I just like going fast as I can for as far as I can.

The same motor will accelerate a lighter wheel faster for the same power input.
A bigger motor would weigh more and require other heavier parts.
The bigger motor would still accelerate faster with lighter wheels.
More weight always diminishes performance...F1 cars are a great example, feather weight for max handling and acceleration.

Not for everyone...just a different perspective.

Though if you're already hauling a pair of St Bernards with a trike+ that weighs more than one of them, the weight of the wheel and tire itself doesn't make a whole lotta difference to your acceleration rate.



But for a typical bicycle-type ebike, then the method you've outlined (which has been posted about before, though I don't remember what threads) works fine. I've used that method even on just my regular bikes, back before I had to start putting motors on them to get around.

(I actually still use the method on occasion, though usually with the unpowered wheel(s), cuz most often with a motor wheel I end up ripping the valve stem off the tube after the flat starts, because the rim spins inside the tire/tube during acceleration or braking once the pressure drops too far, before I notice the problem).

I am kind of hoping someone will take the plunge and get cf wheels, maybe with NYX cf frame or the HPC Revolution frame.
Imagine such a mid drive, hardly no unsprung weight. That would be a killer ride. Maybe powered by Matt's triple drive for 40+ HP.

Look at this thing of beauty. 3 x Astro 3220 with a Davinci drive!

I have a set of ENVE wheels for my Tracer

Getting everything else dialed in before adding them, so I don't risk them till setup is perfect.

Amberwolf,

You can try to use presta valve tubes next time you buy tubes, that should take care of the problem of tube spinning/moving inside the tire once flat.
Also
There are presta valve tubes that have a removable valve core, you could then put in some Stans Notubes Tire Sealant before the first install, or on the road if you like by buying the 2oz/59ml bottle and carry it around in your repair kit on the bike.
Specialized makes some of their presta valve tubes with a removable core, your local bike shop that sells Specialized Bikes/Gear can show you which ones.

amberwolf said:

(I actually still use the method on occasion, though usually with the unpowered wheel(s), cuz most often with a motor wheel I end up ripping the valve stem off the tube after the flat starts, because the rim spins inside the tire/tube during acceleration or braking once the pressure drops too far, before I notice the problem).

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I haven't seen any really thick (like DH type) 20" tubes with presta valves around here locally. (actually I can't remember any 20" prestas).

However, some time back I had used a presta type that has a nut to hold the valvestem to the rim, on a 26" motor wheel, and it still ripped the tube off the valvestem when I had a puncture that lowered pressure enough to let teh rim spin in the tire.


I don't use the sealant stuff anymore (used to primarily use Slime) because while it does work well for a while, it eventually clumps up and is not easily removable from the tube and if not removed can also prevent any new sealant from being able to properly work in the areas of the tube where it's clumped up, and it gets "off round" in weight distribution because of the clumped up area.

Now that I use thicker tubes and tires I generally have fewer problems with leaks or flats than I did when I just ran normal ones and the sealant. Plus if I do have a puncture I can repair it without having to try cleaning the sealant off the outside of the tube so the patch will actually adhere to it. With sealant then punctures too large for it to seal up I would have to spend a long time on the side of the road cleaning and drying the areas before a patch could even remotely stand a chance of working, and sometimes it still wouldn't hold.

With my heavy bike and trike, it's also a lot harder to do repairs than to just run tires/tubes heavy enough to not get punctured in the first place. Am still looking for new moped tires/tubes cheap enough to buy locally, that are better than the used (or new) bike tires/tubes I've been getting.

Hmm, perhaps it is because of your bike being so heavy that it is spinning the tire/tube around the rim , as it never has happened on any 26 inch wheel or 700c wheel that i have ever had a flat on.

I understand you not wanting to use sealant anymore, I got away from slime a long time ago, and only use stans now, but usually just change out the entire tube, since my reference on flat's is on non hub motors, ( so far at least )

I only got one flat on my e-bike , but that was the front. so the tire/tube did not spin at all , even with very low pressure .

The Specialized 16 inch tubes I got for my bike trailer do have removable cores , so I put stan's tire sealant into those, but have not had a flat since then.

amberwolf said:

I haven't seen any really thick (like DH type) 20" tubes with presta valves around here locally. (actually I can't remember any 20" prestas).

However, some time back I had used a presta type that has a nut to hold the valvestem to the rim, on a 26" motor wheel, and it still ripped the tube off the valvestem when I had a puncture that lowered pressure enough to let teh rim spin in the tire.


I don't use the sealant stuff anymore (used to primarily use Slime) because while it does work well for a while, it eventually clumps up and is not easily removable from the tube and if not removed can also prevent any new sealant from being able to properly work in the areas of the tube where it's clumped up, and it gets "off round" in weight distribution because of the clumped up area.

Now that I use thicker tubes and tires I generally have fewer problems with leaks or flats than I did when I just ran normal ones and the sealant. Plus if I do have a puncture I can repair it without having to try cleaning the sealant off the outside of the tube so the patch will actually adhere to it. With sealant then punctures too large for it to seal up I would have to spend a long time on the side of the road cleaning and drying the areas before a patch could even remotely stand a chance of working, and sometimes it still wouldn't hold.

With my heavy bike and trike, it's also a lot harder to do repairs than to just run tires/tubes heavy enough to not get punctured in the first place. Am still looking for new moped tires/tubes cheap enough to buy locally, that are better than the used (or new) bike tires/tubes I've been getting.

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If you can find your size, a cobra tube will work. http://www.modernbike.com/product-2126232011?gclid=CJDK6PTC_skCFYqIfgodoX8MQw Not a permanent fix but the easy way to fix a rear hubed flat and get home.

And sometimes, when it’s all said and done and you can’t fix a flat on the roadside, you just gotta walk the bike along. At least a little throttle helps everything roll much easier. Remember that scene early in the movie Easy Rider? Haha…

Out riding few years ago I found a decent bike left out for trash but it had flat tires. My idea to get it home was to simply hold on to it with one hand and roll it along on flat tires next to me.

Passing several gas stations with air but figured the tubes were so rotted, why bother trying to air them up? Going mildly slow 10MPH or so, 5 miles later I got it back here.

And the ironic thing? I tried airing the tires once I got here and they still held air. It would've rolled much easier if I'd stopped at one of those gas stations…

Corrections to an earlier post ,

The Specialized Tubes that I put on my trailer are not presta valves , they have a threaded metal valve stem and lock ring just like the classic presta valve tubes,
However
They are Schrader valves , so you can remove the valve core to put in tire sealant, If, you like to use tire sealant.

The reason I now try to buy only Specialized tubes is the fact that they are making Schrader valve tubes with metal and with a lock ring, so it is easier to make the valve stem stand upright
and not slide around when you put on the tire. this is a good improvement on a 12 inch and 16 inch tires . since on a 12 inch or 16 inch wheel it is hard to fit the pump into such
small spaces between the spokes.

Amberwolf,
Next time you have to change out the tubes on your trailer, keep in mind about the Specialized Threaded Schrader Valve stem with lock ring. it makes pumping up the tire easier, I have found out.

ScooterMan101 said:

since on a 12 inch or 16 inch wheel it is hard to fit the pump into such small spaces between the spokes.

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There are also 90degree elbow adapters (for RV/etc) whcih I've been planning on getting but havent run into cheaply around here yet.

Next time you have to change out the tubes on your trailer, keep in mind about the Specialized Threaded Schrader Valve stem with lock ring. it makes pumping up the tire easier, I have found out.

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I use a zip tie at the end next to the rim to hold it for that. I almost always have some that I've cut off other things (like at work when we take labels off a harness or dog crate or whatever for a customer so they can use it right now) that are too short and thin for most uses, but work fine for valve stems.

If they make those in 20" and in really thick durable DH-style, and are cheap enough at the LBSs, I'll try some next time I need to. But so far I've not seen them at any in my area.

ebent said:

If you can find your size, a cobra tube will work. http://www.modernbike.com/product-2126232011?gclid=CJDK6PTC_skCFYqIfgodoX8MQw Not a permanent fix but the easy way to fix a rear hubed flat and get home.

Click to expand...

Clever tube! Thx for sharing. Never seen such tube before.

i need to share my solution.
i use two tubes in one tire, if i got a flat. i just pump up the other tube and continue my ride. best idea i have had in years.

Heavier wheels and tires destroy rolling efficiency and suspension function and should be avoided in my opinion when possible.
The only time heavier wheels should be used, in my mind, is when they break spokes from torque or get blow outs from velocity impacts

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BIGGER tires is always better no just kidding, but chose the tire after your riding style, not by theoretical thoughts. i got 4,8'' tires and it rolls much better when im offroad than a small tire. ofc its a little slower on the pavement but its my ridingstyle and it fits me best!

Joppo said:

i use two tubes in one tire, if i got a flat. i just pump up the other tube and continue my ride. best idea i have had in years.

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Works great until glass or other debris cuts thru the tire and *both* tubes.

(or like with my issue, where the rim spins inside the tire/tube and the valve stem is damaged/destroyed, as that will happen to the uninflated tube as well as the inflated one, presuming you've got two valve stem holes in the rim and both tubes' stems "installed" in them).

I did try that method...and eventually had those failures; might as well ahve only had one tube installed as I would not have wasted the second tube without even getting to use it....

Works great until glass or other debris cuts thru the tire and *both* tubes

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where are you riding? the junk yard
i have used two tubes in one tire over a year now and never a problem,
only one tube is inflated, and the other works like a rimtape until you inflate it. each valve have its own hole.
but if the rim spins inside the tire you need to take a look at the rim, maybe you can make small grooves on the inside of the rim

Joppo said:

i got 4,8'' tires and it rolls much better when im offroad than a small tire. ofc its a little slower on the pavement [...]

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"A little slower". Hahahahahahahaha!!!!

I've been working on a few e-bikes lately at the shop, and I have yet to encounter one I would describe as "a little slower" than a normal MTB.

Fatbikes are a LOT slower-- until you hit snow, sand, or deep mud. At least they are faster than walking. But that's about all.

Interesting idea/solution using 2x tubes in one wheel. Took a minute to grasp how it worked until you realize you drill a 2nd hole in the rim for the valve stem.

I flatted out my DH tube when a wire strand (staple clip?) weazled its way through a high milage Schwalbe tire. I just ordered a 29er x 2.5" Maxxis Hookworm to see what the hubbub is all about, but alot of tube choices range from 2.0-2.4" for a thick DH tube. 2.5-3.0" thick DH tubes aren't on the market. Maybe I'll try this method to fill up my newer, more voluminous tire using a DH tube as the main, and a thinner tube as backup.

Joppo said:

Works great until glass or other debris cuts thru the tire and *both* tubes

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where are you riding? the junk yard

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With all the stuff that ends up on roads here, that would probably be easier on tires and wheels. It's not bad everywhere, but there is almost always construction/destruction going on somewhere, and trucks going from or to a job site tend to shed bits and pieces all over the road, out of their load beds or trailers, and there is also plenty of wreckage from collisions, in tiny bits of glass and plastic and metal, mostly along righthand lanes and road edges where we're relegated to, as traffic goes by and it flies up off their tires and is gradually swept there to collect. (among the sources of debris, these two ar eprobably the worst).

I once had a roofing nail I could not avoid (in a small minefield of them out of the back of a truck) go right thru the rear tire, Slime anti-puncture liner, both sides of the tube, and damage the inside of the rim, too, back when I was using DayGlo Avenger. I forget if I'd electrified it at that point, or if that was before then, but it's probably on my old electricle blog.

but if the rim spins inside the tire you need to take a look at the rim, maybe you can make small grooves on the inside of the rim

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It only happens after pressure drops way down, normally this is only after a flat; at that point the only thing I found that stops it is actually gluing the tire to the rim, which I only tried for a short time, some time back.

The only glue that worked in those attempts was silicone sealant, which is pretty hard to get loose to get the tire even partly off the rim to do a roadside repair...and it also doesn't come back off the tire *or* rim without wire brushes and way more work than it's worth, so regluing it later makes it heavier and heavier each time I have to do that, and the buildup could eventually make the bead pop off the rim during inflation unless I glue it and wait a day or two for it to dry before inflating it, which is not practical.

I'm sure there are other methods I haven't tried that work better than that; I've read of some like rim locks (haven't looked them up for details yet), etc.

i have never seen a highway in my life so didnt know, sounds like you need yo use something like this in you tire i used it sometimes back in my motoX days with good results and no punkture hehe i dont know if they make filled tubes to bicycle, maybe they should

"A little slower". Hahahahahahahaha!!!!

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its not that bad :lol: the footprint of the fatbike tire is not big at all when you got normal airpressure. but when you go low airpressure it will be alot harder to ride

Never ridden those anti-puncture tubes. Are they like riding those anti puncture car tires? If so I would prefer air fill.

For me personally a set of great m/c rims and tires are the tits. Then running those tires "ghetto style" tubeless. (you can also do this with mtb tires and go tubeless, if you are weight conscious ) If you somehow should manage to get a puncture all you need is tubeless repair kit and canned air. The complete repair is done in less then 2 minutes.

Now if we can figure out a way to change the TIRE without removing the rim we'll really have something good.

macribs said:

Never ridden those anti-puncture tubes. Are they like riding those anti puncture car tires? If so I would prefer air fill.

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no its not like anti puncture tires. you can buy them softer or harder and they last for years, feels like you got air in the tires.

damn this is a good idea to make and sell for bicylces, im positive this will make you some money!