What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
User avatar
DotScott   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 40
Joined: Feb 06 2016 2:16pm

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by DotScott » Feb 23 2016 9:57am

spinningmagnets wrote:For $25, the Ferro Fluid upgrade can put the MXUS V3 from Kinaye in a whole new category...
http://electric-fatbike.com/2015/12/18/ ... evolution/

3000W continuous, 6000W peak
142mm drop-out axle shoulders
temp sensor
dual hall-sensor set
$380 bare unspoked hub, from a US distributor (Washington)

http://kinaye-motorsports.myshopify.com/

Image
That is awesome! Thanks for sharing!

sketchism   100 W

100 W
Posts: 168
Joined: Feb 17 2016 8:35am
Location: GC, Australia

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by sketchism » Mar 05 2016 8:18am

the ferrofluid has been out of stock for agesss, i'm almost resorted to buying a litre of it direct from the factory so i can use some for my builds and maybe sell the rest off here in aus if anyone wants 995ml of it
Don't overheat your ebike hub motor - www.hubsink.com (beta testing still open)
https://hubsink.com HubSink - Hub Motor Heatsinks

https://australiandroneco.com Australian Drone Co - Aerial Videography

Nothing is fool proof to a sufficiently talented fool, trust me we'll find a way :idea:

User avatar
spinningmagnets   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11211
Joined: Dec 21 2007 10:27pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 05 2016 8:52am

It sounded like Justin only wanted to sell a few samples to builders who understood it is still experimental, and he only sold it in the first place to get long-term data, to see what issues might pop up. Don't get the organic oil-based FF, because it will evaporate away and get thicker. Also, if you put in the minimum amount to keep the unloaded drag down, shrinkage due to evaporation will break the thermal coupling...

sketchism   100 W

100 W
Posts: 168
Joined: Feb 17 2016 8:35am
Location: GC, Australia

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by sketchism » Mar 05 2016 9:02am

haha yeah i spent a few days emailing back and forth with the manufacturers at ferrotec and they were quite interested in its use for motor cooling, they agreed to sell me an amount to test and use for that reason, but minimum was 1L and that worked out quite expensive indeed.
Don't overheat your ebike hub motor - www.hubsink.com (beta testing still open)
https://hubsink.com HubSink - Hub Motor Heatsinks

https://australiandroneco.com Australian Drone Co - Aerial Videography

Nothing is fool proof to a sufficiently talented fool, trust me we'll find a way :idea:

User avatar
bowlofsalad   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1540
Joined: Feb 01 2013 10:28pm
Location: Midwest, USA

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by bowlofsalad » Mar 21 2016 6:39pm


zombiess   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2887
Joined: Feb 01 2011 2:16am
Location: Ventura

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by zombiess » Mar 21 2016 9:09pm

Cromotor V4 is the QS V3 core with a improved axle.

Before anyone gets on about Cromotor Vx, I started the naming to keep track of changing specs.

ecycler   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 801
Joined: Apr 03 2014 9:30pm
Location: USA

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by ecycler » Mar 23 2016 5:41pm

I spilled the beans in another thread, but I have concocted my own ferrofluid formula and it is looking very promising so far. Once I get a few hundred more miles in each of the motors and crack them open I will share the results and spread the love.
Any grease is better than no grease.
The best exercises are the ones you enjoy doing.
I strongly prefer vehicles without doors.

User avatar
Samd   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3667
Joined: Jun 28 2011 11:08pm
Location: Ballarat, AU
Contact:

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by Samd » Apr 13 2016 2:54am

Well the ferrofluid formula ain't so secret. It's just MICR toner and peanut oil for the oxidation profile.

Anyone see that insane Honda grom last month with the 9c custom version of the qs273? I gotta find pics.
http://ballaratebikes.com/

ImageImageImage
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing that a 165mm rear shock can't deliver 220mm of rear swingarm travel." - Oprah Winfrey.

ecycler   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 801
Joined: Apr 03 2014 9:30pm
Location: USA

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by ecycler » Apr 13 2016 9:58am

Samd, that may be a simple version for science demonstrations on youtube, but I assure you there is no toner or peanut oil in my experimental formulas. Peanut oil is a much cheaper source of Oleic Acid than what I have been using and has a relatively high smoke/flash point, so perhaps I will look into trying it in the formula one day. For now I can only do one batch at a time and it takes about a week.

There is a reason why ferrofluid costs so much. Fe3O4 must be synthesized as or broken down into nanoparticles (20~30nm or less) in the presence of the modifiers or they will not be able to graft onto the surface of particles small enough to produce excellent dispersion capability. Ink toner particles are between 8-20 microns, so they are 3 orders of magnitude off the mark from ideal particle size for a ferrofluid.
Any grease is better than no grease.
The best exercises are the ones you enjoy doing.
I strongly prefer vehicles without doors.

User avatar
Samd   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3667
Joined: Jun 28 2011 11:08pm
Location: Ballarat, AU
Contact:

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by Samd » Apr 13 2016 7:02pm

No doubt you've got the detail. But so far I've got ten kilos of toner for thirty bucks and three of my Mxus motors are showing ok results after a few hundred KM each. It comes out about fifteen cents a shot. I may be underengineering it - but I'm thinking that there's a real risk here of overengineering it. ES is all about open source for the masses.
Although be careful there - MICR toner is conched to a super small particle size for gravure printing. It's not regular toner.
~8 microns strikes me as ideal given the gap size? Actually I just googles a few different specs, there seems to be MICR down to half of one micron?
http://ballaratebikes.com/

ImageImageImage
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing that a 165mm rear shock can't deliver 220mm of rear swingarm travel." - Oprah Winfrey.

ecycler   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 801
Joined: Apr 03 2014 9:30pm
Location: USA

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by ecycler » Apr 13 2016 8:10pm

That's cool that you are giving it a shot. Are you seeing similar temperature reduction on the coils of ~20-30c? I did a few tests with larger particles (though still not micron sized) on the bench over the past few weeks and they will definitely agglomerate pretty quickly, but if kept in the presence of a magnet it slows down the process which is good news. I will read up on MICR toner and see if I can source some as well. It would be great if you have found a major shortcut!

I fully agree it is all about putting our heads together to achieve the desired result with the least amount of work and resources necessary! :-)
Any grease is better than no grease.
The best exercises are the ones you enjoy doing.
I strongly prefer vehicles without doors.

User avatar
DotScott   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 40
Joined: Feb 06 2016 2:16pm

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by DotScott » Apr 26 2016 2:18pm

bowlofsalad wrote:http://www.electricmotorsport.com/ev-pa ... motor.html Probably worth adding to the list.
NICE! Thanks for sharing!

User avatar
marcexec   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 383
Joined: Mar 10 2009 8:20am
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by marcexec » Jun 15 2016 9:51am

Hey guys,

since I took some data from this thread I thought someone might be interested in the Wiki table I created: https://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/ ... _Selection
Feel free to PM me if you have problems adding stuff.
Discussion here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 9#p1191209
A motorcyclist is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.
My Suzuki RF400 build: now with Enertrac MHM602 and 6kWh AESC modules protected by a Zephyr BMS
Renault Equation modded to 10S6P recycled laptop 18650s & 1kW controller.
Master of Electric Motor Selection: "Adopt a motor" (PM me if you have trouble editing)
All the gear, all the time!

User avatar
DotScott   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 40
Joined: Feb 06 2016 2:16pm

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by DotScott » Jun 16 2016 12:00pm

marcexec wrote:Hey guys,

since I took some data from this thread I thought someone might be interested in the Wiki table I created: https://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/ ... _Selection
Feel free to PM me if you have problems adding stuff.
Discussion here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 9#p1191209
THAT IS AWESOME! This is just the type of thing I was looking for when I created this post! Thanks for sharing!

User avatar
marcexec   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 383
Joined: Mar 10 2009 8:20am
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by marcexec » Jun 17 2016 7:47am

DotScott wrote:
marcexec wrote:Hey guys,

since I took some data from this thread I thought someone might be interested in the Wiki table I created: https://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/ ... _Selection
Feel free to PM me if you have problems adding stuff.
Discussion here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 9#p1191209
THAT IS AWESOME! This is just the type of thing I was looking for when I created this post! Thanks for sharing!
You're very welcome mate. Sharing isn't the big deal, though, there are over 20 lunch breaks and "attended" server installations in that to get the data into a suitable format... :wink:
A motorcyclist is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.
My Suzuki RF400 build: now with Enertrac MHM602 and 6kWh AESC modules protected by a Zephyr BMS
Renault Equation modded to 10S6P recycled laptop 18650s & 1kW controller.
Master of Electric Motor Selection: "Adopt a motor" (PM me if you have trouble editing)
All the gear, all the time!

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7573
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by markz » Jan 22 2017 2:56pm

Just ran across this motor myself
EnerTrac MHM602 Brushless 10kW Hub Motor
30kW peak
72 volts for 45 MPH with 18 X 3.5 tire
96 volts for 60 plus MPH with 18 X 3.5 tire

- Typical current demand:

At 72 volts and 45 MPH < 50 amps
At 96 volts and 60 MPH < 95 amps
Makes me wonder what the kV is, I need to find out how to convert.

Some additonal info here
The 602 is a 2 Turn and I can only ASSume 60mm stator.
elecbike@gmail.com
MHM602/MHM603 and the DUAL MOTOR 602/603 Now advailable with Liquid Cooling Option

I am getting a hard on

I found this website
http://www.csgnetwork.com/tirerevforcecalc.html
Punched in 96V and 60mph, 18", 2" and got 916RPM divided by 96 is 9.54Kv. 72V and 45mph works out to 9.549Kv.
Not sure how the Kv relates to other motors, think its correct though.

There must be other motors like this out there.

Warren   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1326
Joined: Oct 05 2010 11:35am

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by Warren » Jan 22 2017 4:44pm

It is under specs:

MHM602: 10 RPM/Volt

MHM603: 7 RPM/Volt

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7573
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by markz » Jan 22 2017 5:43pm

So thats 10Kv and 7Kv, I was close in my calculation. I can't believe I did not even see that when I was on that page.

User avatar
marcexec   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 383
Joined: Mar 10 2009 8:20am
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by marcexec » Jan 23 2017 4:47am

Cool, added that (and the 603) to https://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/ ... _of_Motors - anyone have the wights and or diameter of them?
A motorcyclist is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.
My Suzuki RF400 build: now with Enertrac MHM602 and 6kWh AESC modules protected by a Zephyr BMS
Renault Equation modded to 10S6P recycled laptop 18650s & 1kW controller.
Master of Electric Motor Selection: "Adopt a motor" (PM me if you have trouble editing)
All the gear, all the time!

Warren   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1326
Joined: Oct 05 2010 11:35am

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by Warren » Jan 23 2017 5:08pm

Kraig shows his built up in the motorcycle wheel with dropouts and brake installed at 56 pounds.

http://www.schultzengineering.us/d-11mar31.jpg

This article calls it a 45 pound motor.

https://www.wired.com/2010/05/hammarhead-volta/

Mark said it is 10" diameter, in his response here.

https://evmc2.wordpress.com/2010/08/10/ ... ub-motors/

It is built, for Mark Gelbien, by Crystalyte.

http://www.evalbum.com/2568

User avatar
Doctorbass   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7428
Joined: Apr 08 2007 2:24am
Location: Quebec, Canada East
Contact:

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by Doctorbass » Jan 23 2017 5:32pm

deleted
Last edited by Doctorbass on Mar 20 2017 12:50am, edited 1 time in total.
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

User avatar
marcexec   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 383
Joined: Mar 10 2009 8:20am
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by marcexec » Jan 24 2017 8:32am

Doctorbass wrote:You should add the DU 602 and DU 603.. these are dual Enertrac ( 20kW cont 60 peak)

We build my friend's E-GSXR 1000 with one and 40s2p of A123 20Ah poutch and 600A 180V Kelly to power that heavy hub.

Jean-Luc was not impressed by the quality build of the enertrac motor and had communications difficulty with the supplier.
[...]


That project was awsome and the motorcyle was really powerfull and had a very great powerband.. even at 160kmh there was still torque. but the dual 602 was pretty hard at very low speed on the Kelly 600Amp... as we got many cut out due to high current spike detection...

Doc
That's all cool, but there are even less details on the dual versions, not even the width. Did you happen to take any measurements? As stated before, I'm happy to put in the table whatever you're throwing at me.

Edit: Mark kindly sent me drawings and the crazy lovely dual versions are now in the Wiki page, bringing the total to 52 :D
A motorcyclist is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to.
My Suzuki RF400 build: now with Enertrac MHM602 and 6kWh AESC modules protected by a Zephyr BMS
Renault Equation modded to 10S6P recycled laptop 18650s & 1kW controller.
Master of Electric Motor Selection: "Adopt a motor" (PM me if you have trouble editing)
All the gear, all the time!

mk77   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 19
Joined: Jun 10 2009 11:51pm
Location: Northern Michigan

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by mk77 » Feb 06 2019 3:35pm

Hi,
Don't mean to dredge up an inactive thread; though, I still have a question
after searching the ES site for the Enertrac MHM602 motor number of poles.
I was only able to find one reference to the motor having 12 poles but this reference seems to be
just a statement vs a parameter on a specification sheet. I was also looking for the spacing of the Hall
sensors (in degrees). It seems to me this data should be on the Enertrac website but it is not.
Is Enertrac still active? Website is up but not getting response to email questions.
Thanks in advance -- I appreciate the assistance.
Electrons are fun to play with... there are so many of them and they are SO responsive!

markz   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7573
Joined: Jan 09 2014 11:38pm
Location: Alberta Canada

Re: What are the Most Powerful Hub Motors in 2016?

Post by markz » Feb 06 2019 6:16pm

Might as well add on the MXUS 5000W motor to the list.

edit
Also note that the lower turn count/Higher KV motor handles more amps then a higher turn/lower KV motor. Teslnanv has a post somewhere on that.

Post Reply