My recumbent cargo bike

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
Warren   100 kW

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by Warren » May 21 2016 9:38am

I thought it would be easy to get to three thousand miles this spring, on a bike that can go 150 miles. But it has been a real struggle to find more than one or two days a week without rain, or threats of rain. Finally crossed that point yesterday. I checked their webpage, and saw that Anna Cabana was finally reopening, after remodeling. They too have been struggling with rain making construction stretch on. I think I got to be their first customer. They had to run a phone line across the floor to temporarily hook up the card reader. But the kitchen was up and running, and my lunch was great, made better by the view of Lake Anna.
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I, once again, promised myself that I will never again ride across the lake on Rt 208. I thought it would be fine, since they have recently done a nice paved three foot shoulder along this very busy road. I was thinking about how nice this addition was as I was coming down a hill at about 33 mph, and saw a big rig pulling a huge boat on a flatbed trailer coming down the hill behind me. Then I noticed fresh grass thrown out on the shoulder by a lawnmower. I saw the mower driver heading across his lawn at a good clip, looking down at his ample stomach, probably wondering what might still be down below it that he hadn't seen in years. I am figuring the converging trajectories of me, the boat truck, and the lawnmower, in my head, and thinking, surely, this guy won't head out onto the shoulder of this busy highway without looking for traffic...right. At the last moment, I used the international signal for, "Look out! I'm moving over!" (a quick turn of my head, and my left elbow jutting out) to hopefully alert the truck driver, as I passed the bald top of the mower driver's head by inches. I hope he had to change his Depends.

Warren   100 kW

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by Warren » Jun 07 2016 2:14pm

Left at 9:30 am, for my 11:15 am dentist appointment on Pantops. Thanks to the state's decision to omit a shoulder on Route 250, the two miles from Shadwell to Kohr Brothers ice cream parlor, I have to take a ten mile detour, over Monticello Mountain. It is scenic, with three and a half of those ten miles on hike/bike trails, but still makes me less inclined to go to Charlottesville.

62.2 mi, 3:04.58, 20.1 av, 38.6 max, 18.8 Wh/mile
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Warren   100 kW

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by Warren » Jul 12 2016 12:49pm

I rode over Southwest Mountain yesterday, to Advance Mills, Earlysville, and on to C'ville. Home by way of Monticello...90 miles. Totally pleasant and uneventful, except for the yahoo in the SUV the size of a 1950's Airstream trailer, who thought this was the perfect place to attempt to pass an old guy on the shoulder, coasting downhill at 30+ mph.
perfectforpassing.png
I saw him coming up behind, and watched him floor it, lifting the front bumper even higher than it normally is, as he pulled into the left lane. About two seconds later, the inevitable car comes the other way, prompting SUV genius to lock up his brakes and get that thing all crossed up. I thought he was going to roll it down the hill right over me.

LI-ghtcycle   1.21 GW

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Jul 13 2016 4:24pm

Nice ride!

I hear you on the idiot SUV driver, had all kinds of headache on HWY 30 going to the coast (Oregon, on the way to the Recumbent Retreat) with people like that, and I had nowhere to go, shoulder ends in steep embankment!
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

Warren   100 kW

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by Warren » Jul 19 2016 9:13am

LI-ghtcycle,

"I had nowhere to go, shoulder ends in steep embankment!"

Yeah. The most direct route into Charlottesville, for me, is Rt 250. A pleasant road with decent, if narrow, paved shoulder. Unfortunately, the last three miles, where two roads converge, has no shoulder at all and a steep embankment, so I detour over Monticello Mountain. That added another 20 miles to what would otherwise have been a 50 mile grocery trip. It is a pretty pleasant detour, but annoying none the less.

The last week I have had several opportunities to check out the bike's electrical waterproofing. Random showers have proven it works just fine. I even got to spend some time under an interstate overpass, waiting out the lightning. :-)

Warren   100 kW

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by Warren » Jul 21 2016 8:58am

Ever notice how, once you get an idea, it is hard to forget it? I finally gave into the idea of doing a 200 mile ride yesterday...actually 203 miles, with enough battery left for 27 miles more, at that pace. The secret was getting on the road early enough, and picking a day with low wind. I rode through Palmyra, Scotsville, Fork Union, Columbia, Cartersville, Hadensville, Bumpass, Orange, Madison,and Gordonsville. Pretty easy, once I got my head into bicycle speed mode. About 6,200 feet of climbing per google. Minimum about 16 mph on the steepest climbs, about 1,300 watts.

10:51 riding
12:40 total
1:49 off the bike

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I did the whole ride in cruise control, as close as I could set it to 18.5 mph on the level. I pedaled the whole time, putting in about 75-150 watts to the rear wheel. I stopped about every hour and a half for loading and unloading fuel, and sunscreen/chapstick. Spent too much time proselytizing about the wonders of electric drive. :-)

Warren   100 kW

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by Warren » Jul 21 2016 2:42pm

I knew I would be getting to this little store near Buckner/Bumpass at about the half way mark, but this was pretty amazing.
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LI-ghtcycle   1.21 GW

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by LI-ghtcycle » Jul 22 2016 1:17pm

Amazing! I congratulate you on your discipline keep it down to more bicycle speeds and showing the world what is possible for long range on an E-Bike! 8)
Thank you Justin_Le for your selfless act of kindness! We all are in your debt.
Back on track E-Bronco! Now with Cro Motor Mid-Drive Goodness!
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=44997

Vision R40 w/3000w MXUS as mid-drive, NuVinci N171B rear wheel as transmission, Silent yet powerful, running 72v 11.6 ah (20s 18650 Li-Ion) to climb hills, tow trailer with zero pedaling when needed!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=75247[/size]

Warren   100 kW

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by Warren » Jul 22 2016 10:52pm

Bill Bushnell has done 200 miles each of the last three years. And with the aid of his full fairings, he does it faster, and/or with way more climbing.

2016

Bike Ridden: Power Pursuit F3
Distance: 200.2 miles
Cumulative climbing: 10390 feet
Total Time: 12:02:15
Riding Time: 10:14:23
Avg. Speed (moving): 19.5 mph
Max. Speed: 39.4 mph
Nominal System Voltage: 48
Battery energy capacity: 2800 wh
Battery energy consumed: 2737† wh
Wh/mi: 11.3
Battery Amps-Hour Used: 52.7
Regen Amps-Hour Recovered: 9.3
Peak Forward Current: 23.7 Amps
Peak Regen Current: 29.9 Amps

2015

Distance: 201.0 miles Power Pursuit F3
Cumulative climbing: 10120 feet
Total Time: 12:41:57
Riding Time: 10:44:39
Avg. Speed (moving): 18.7 mph
Max. Speed: 39.7 mph
Nominal System Voltage: 48
Battery energy capacity: 2800 wh
Battery energy consumed: 2880† wh
Wh/mi: 13.2
Battery Amps-Hour Used: 55.5
Regen Amps-Hour Recovered: 4.2
Peak Forward Current: 21.9 Amps
Peak Regen Current: 11.6 Amps

2014

Bike Ridden: Power Gold Rush
Distance: 207.4 miles
Cumulative climbing: 8400 feet
Total Time: 13:34:25
Riding Time: 10:29:04
Avg. Speed (moving): 19.7 mph
Max. Speed: 55.4 mph
Nominal System Voltage: 24
Battery energy capacity: 4000 wh
Battery energy consumed: 2684 wh
Wh/mi: 12.9
Battery Amps-Hour Used: 100.0
Peak Current: 40.3 Amps
Motor energy to rear wheel: 1879 wh
Human energy to rear wheel: 1241 wh
Total energy delivered: 3120 wh

Warren   100 kW

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by Warren » Aug 17 2016 4:24pm

Finally replaced the rear tire last night, at 5672 miles. No cord actually showing, which is the sign to replace the rear on my old bike. I could see the texture of cord through the rubber, in several places, and some tiny holes down to the casing. Probably another hundred miles left on there. But given the weight of this bike, and the hassle of pulling a hub motor on the side of the road, I went with caution.

Went for a short, 60 mile shake down ride this am. I am really getting tired of high heat and humidity. It looks like this may be our last week in the 90's for the year.

I have not seen the motor hit 70 C yet this summer, even running WOT all 61 miles back home from Farmville again last Friday. Averaged 27.5 mph, and 21.9 Wh/mile on the way back. I am about as happy with this bike as I could be. The only thing better would be a modern NMC pack to save 20 pounds.

Warren   100 kW

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by Warren » Sep 05 2016 4:19pm

Rode across the Southwest Mountains again today. Went out on Rt 600 and back on Rt 640. Rt 600 has about 4.5 miles of dirt road, as opposed to 1.5 miles for Rt 640, but the scenery is even more amazing, so worth it. Don't take my word. Ask Thomas Jefferson,

http://www.markerhistory.com/Images/Low ... strict.jpg

and Governor Barbour, in 1835.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest ... te_note-12

I am sure it was even more spectacular before the chestnut blight of the early 20th century.

Turned over 6,016 miles.

Warren   100 kW

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by Warren » Sep 28 2016 3:29pm

A couple of updates. I replaced my CatEye LED headlight,

http://media.performancebike.com/images ... uality=100

which used 4 AA cells, and my Planet Bike LED taillight, which used two AAA cells.

http://ecom1.planetbike.com/3034.html

I use them as flashing daytime "be seen" lights, so the batteries lasted pretty long. But even changing them twice a year means a dozen spent batteries to the recycling center. I installed a Grin Tech headlight,

http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/l ... t-12f.html

and taillight.

http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/l ... ed8rb.html

They are plugged into the DC power jack of my CA V3, so I don't have to remember to turn them off when I stop, as they go off with the main power switch. The taillight may be slightly less attention getting than the Planet Bike, because it lacks the Superflash's focusing lens. The headlight is definitely brighter, despite the lack of focusing lens, just because it has four times the number of LEDs, and will definitely work to get me home, if I am caught out after dark.

The other thing I did was change the amount of travel, per shift, of my rear derailleur. When I first put this bike together, I had a 57 tooth large chainring up front, and a 14-34 Shimano, 7 spd freewheel in back. The high gear wasn't quite high enough when running WOT, so I switched to the only other option these days that would give me the cadence I wanted. I put a 53 tooth chainring up front, and an 11-32 DNP, 7 spd freewheel in back. My shifter is the original top-of-the-line Grip Shift, 8 spd from 1996. The cog spacing for 7 and 8 speed is the same, so it worked perfectly with the Shimano freewheel. However, for whatever reason, DNP uses 9 speed spacing on their 7 speed freewheel. This causes the chain to dither from one gear to the next, every few minutes, which is very annoying. I decided to try a trick I have used to get NOS Campy brifters to work with NOS Shimano derailleurs on my roadbikes. The Campy brifters pull a bit more cable than the Shimanos. To reduce the movement of the derailleur parallelogram, I rotate the cable pinch washer 90 degrees. The pinch washer has a tab bent down at 90 degrees to prevent the washer from turning as you tighten the clamp bolt. By rotating the washer, I force the cable to pass outside of the bent tab, and then clamp the cable under the front of the washer. This moves the effective cable attachment point about 3/32" further from the parallelogram's fulcrum. By luck, it worked perfectly here too.

We are into a week of dark rainy days now, but I managed to get to 6,605 miles before this weather hit.

Warren   100 kW

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by Warren » Dec 10 2016 5:45pm

I know that for folks who commute, riding in cold weather is just something you do. But I have always lived far from town, and didn't have an e-bike to commute on. So my riding has always been just for fun. When it got below 40F I switched to jogging, except for one time. I had gotten a full Zipper front fairing to see the effects of improved aerodynamics. As it turned out, it is very hilly around here, and I am not a particularly strong rider. The upshot was that what I gained on descents, I lost on climbs, and the small benefit I saw on the flat was offset by the lack of cooling, in our hot, humid weather. But I figured it would be just the thing to ride in the cold. On 01-18-97, I did a 20.47 mile loop, 1:22.42, 14.8 av, 31.5 max, 155 bpm av. It was a windy and clear afternoon. Temperature was 25F when I started, and 20F when I got home. I felt pretty comfy behind the Zipper, but by two thirds of the way through, the water in my water bottle had formed an eighth inch of ice around the inside!

Anyway, my CA calculates battery impedance, and I was curious to see what effect cold temps would have on the Leaf pack. During the warm summer months it would range from 0.023-0.028 ohms. Today was the first day I could ride below 40F, so I headed off to Gordonsville for a snack. It was 38F when I left, and 34F when I got back. I saw impedance ranging from 0-028-0.035 ohms. Fifty degrees difference took Wh/mile from 16 to 18.9. Part of that is from cold, dry air, which is thicker than hot, humid air. Part is from the tires being stiffer at these temps. But most is probably from the added electrical resistance of the battery.
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craneplaneguy   10 kW

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by craneplaneguy » Dec 10 2016 9:21pm

Great work,! So, am I correct in that you are riding a RANS bike? That's the same Kansas based company who produced my kitplane. They recently divested themselves of the bike division, but are still very big time in the experimental/LSA/kitplane world. Head honcho Randy Schlitter, FWIW, showed zero interest when I brought up the fact I have been flying one his designs for the last 20 years WITH a Montague bike. The recent addition of the BBSHD conversion to my latest Montague also didn't get him too excited, go figure! It may have been a little of the old "I didn't think of it first, so it can't be worth much/not invented here" thing. Hard to say, the guy is uber smart, people skills a different deal maybe. Whatever, he makes and designs good stuff.

Warren   100 kW

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by Warren » Dec 11 2016 10:33am

craneplaneguy,

We already had this conversation on page one. :-)

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 8#p1163971

His brother John is the bicycle enthusiast. He is a world class athlete, has owned several bike shops, was an early partner in Bacchetta Bicycles, and has his own bike company.

http://www.vitebikes.com/

http://www.schlitter.bike/

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by pguk » Dec 16 2016 2:03pm

Warren wrote: When I pulled up to a stop sign, I thought I would try riding no-hands. This is one of those things that people who have never ridden more than a mile on one will tell you is impossible on a recumbent. Some people have more trouble riding them than others.
I took off from the stop sign, set the cruise control, and proceeded to ride the last ten miles home no-hands, up and down hills, around curves, even over a bit of gravel I only touched the bars to shift, to stop at one more stop sign, and when the state trooper went by the other way. Then I rode one-hand, while smiling and waving in my most obsequious manner.
This interests me greatly - that it's possible to take hands off the steering. I've had a SWB Azub 6 for over a year now which is the first and only recumbent I've ever riden. In no way is it possible to let go of the bars for any length of time as balance fails very quickly. So you are constantly concentrating on balancing the bike. Are all LWB recumbens so steady?
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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by bambuko » Dec 16 2016 5:28pm

pguk wrote:
Warren wrote: ... Are all LWB recumbens so steady?
Yes and no :D
They definitely are more stable than SWB, but few are able to ride hands free
Classical LWB will be about 30/70 (front/rear), however Warren's is not the usual example because his seat is more in the middle of his bike rather than in the rear (so I am guessing it's closer to 50/50 ?)
I have built two LWB and they are getting better at this hands free business, but it's not easy :mrgreen:

Warren   100 kW

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by Warren » Dec 16 2016 6:22pm

My cargo bike is not a LWB bike, by the definition usually used by hpv folks. It doesn't refer to wheelbase directly. SWB means cranks ahead of front wheel. MWB means cranks over front wheel. LWB means cranks behind front wheel. Beyond that, the actual wheelbase can be anywhere from shorter than the typical one meter for uprights, to longer than an upright tandem. The location of the cranks relative to the front wheel, the overall wheelbase, and the seatback angle all affect the CG location front to back. Head angle, trail, seat height, and front to back CG all affect handling characteristics. Wheel size, and tire width also affect handling characteristics.

I can make some general statements about handling that I have found to be true, over several decades of building/modifying/riding bikes.

In the case of recumbents, MWB makes riding no-hands easier.
Higher seats make riding no-hands easier.
Longer wheelbases make riding no-hands easier.
Bigger wheels make riding no-hands easier.
Fatter tires make riding no-hands easier.
CG closer to center of bike make riding no-hands easier.
Low wheel flop makes riding no-hands easier. This can be accomplished in several different ways. Basically, the more slack the head angle, the less trail you want, and the less weight on the front wheel. As you add weight to the front end, especially weight on the fork itself, like porteur bikes with front racks, you want a more vertical head angle, less trail, possibly a fork return spring. Once you get to vertical, or even negative head angles, you can start adding trail back in, as it now has the opposite effect on flop, and no-hands handling.

Warren   100 kW

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by Warren » Dec 16 2016 6:37pm

For comparison, my older mid-drive bike is a LWB bike with a 40/60 weight distribution, with a more upright head angle than a typical LWB bike, a bungee cord fork return spring, a large front wheel, and medium width tires. It rides no-hands like a typical roadbike. You can steer by moving around a bit, and by extending your arms out to the sides. I can zipper jackets, and get stuff out of pockets. That said, it is nothing like as stable as my MWB cargo bike. That thing feels like a Goldwing going down the road.

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by 999zip999 » Dec 16 2016 11:23pm

Interesting how far tilted your seat is and that it sits in the middle of the bike. Different to look at. Goodreads

Warren   100 kW

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by Warren » Dec 17 2016 11:33am

Yeah. It turned out just as I thought it would. I am pretty pleased. If I had unlimited funds, and were going to build one from scratch, I'd go with an NMC pack, to save 20-30 pounds. The wheelbase would be a foot shorter for ease of storage, and the motor would be mounted near the middle, with a leftside, heavy duty Gates belt drive, to get weight out of the wheel, and simplify tire changes.

Warren   100 kW

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by Warren » Dec 20 2016 5:40pm

Speaking of changing tires. I got 5,672 miles on my first rear tire with no flats. Back in October, the new one caught a tiny glass shard after 1,595 miles. Replacing the tube was easy, if a bit slower than on a normal bike. It was the middle of a nice afternoon, in the mid 60s F. I noticed the back starting to feel a bit squishy, so I pulled over, using the front brake. I pulled it up onto a nice grassy spot, putting it on the center stand on a spot where the rear wheel was slightly off the ground. I hand cranked it into the smallest chainring, and rear sprocket, and undid the derailleur mounting bolt, moving the derailleur and chain aside. I removed the two velcro cargo straps, holding the wiring bundle to the left rear chainstay, and the stretchy Grin Tech connector sleeve covering the bundle. I undid the phase wire, hall, and thermistor connectors. I removed the torque arm bolts, and loosened the axle nuts. Then dropped the wheel down, and slide it out. After finding the offending glass shard, and removing it, I pulled the tube, and found the tiny pinhole. I got out a new tube, and reversed the whole process.

Yesterday was a bit different. 1,953 miles after the first glass shard, I picked up another. Backend felt squishy, front brake, pull up on grass, find and remove glass. However, now it is late December, upper 30s F, about 45 minutes until dark, with temps falling. The idea of fixing a flat with cold hands, and no flashlight, this late, was not my first choice. I had 10.5 miles to go. I figured I'd see how long it would hold air with the glass removed. I put in 250 strokes on my old Topeak Road Morph to get to 75 psi. I noted the time and distance and took off. Running 22-23 mph, I got 2.5 miles before I felt it getting soft. Stop and repeat. I stopped again at 2 miles, as I was going to get on the old state highway. I pumped it up, and with 6 miles remaining, I figured I'd push it up 28-30 mph and get probably 3.5 miles before needing to stop. Worked like a champ. The last pumping got me home with air to spare, as the sun disappeared. Ten minutes after parking the bike, the tire was completely flat.

So today I installed the new tube in the comfort of our back room. I decided to try something new with the old tube. I have heard that thick tubes don't really help much. I suspect once the rubber is pierced, under pressure, the nick acts as a stress riser propagating through the tube. I removed the valve stem and its base, and slit the old tube along its inner surface. I slightly inflated the new tube, and slipped the old tube over as tube cover/tire liner. It installed just fine. I will see tomorrow how it goes. Sometimes, hard tire liners abraid the tube, and actually cause a flat, but the old tube is soft, just like a rubber rim strip. And I figure if a sliver pricks it, the hole won't propagate into the tube. We'll see.

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by Warren » Dec 31 2016 5:33pm

Happy New Year everybody!

I only got 3,975 miles on the mid-drive this year, 320 of those this month, 141 of those in the last week. The Screamer got the other 8,784 miles. Oh! And 16.6 miles on my single speed roadbike going to and from the automobile inspection station.

Warren   100 kW

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by Warren » Jan 19 2017 11:54am

January has been interesting, so far. Only 6 rides in 18 days, 376 miles. Mostly it has been too cold and/or rainy. Our highest temps have been way above average, and our low temps have been way below average. The month started off OK with a 34 mile ride on the mid-drive on the 1st, and an 84 mile ride on the cargo bike on the 2nd. Then we had nine days of stuck jetstream cold, with several nights down around 0 degrees F. Then on the 12th we matched the record high for the date, as the jetstream went back where it belongs. :-) I've gotten four rides in since it warmed back up. Yesterday was the best at 129 miles up to Afton on the Blue Ridge again. Every time I do this ride, I marvel at how beautiful the creek is that runs along Plank Road. I finally stopped to take a shot with my crappy flip phone.
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Warren   100 kW

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Re: My recumbent cargo bike

Post by Warren » Jan 24 2017 11:07pm

It was mostly cloudy, windy, and 52 degrees, when I started today. Rode through Zions Crossroads, Gordonsville, Somerset, Uno, Rochelle, and Pratts. But by the time I got to Madison, it was sunny. I found a new-to-me place for lunch.
MadisonInn.jpg
Good food, and nice patio seating. On the way home, between Gordonsville, and Zions Crossroads, I decided to cut through the Green Springs historical area. It is narrow dirt roads,
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and wealthy, old estates.

This church has headstones of families going back to the 1700s who still own those estates.
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A pleasant ride, 92.8 miles, 22.4 mph av, 21.3 Wh/mile
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