QUESTIONS ON SETTING/INSTALLING Q100c CST

I am starting to put together the pieces of a Q100c cst, with S-LCD Display, Throttle , Controller, etc.

Do I have to connect the magnetic spoke sensor , If I am only going to ride it with a throttle ?

If I leave the PAS off How will the Display work , will it be just linear speed ?

There are 5 PAS settings on the Display , do I have to do anything with those if I only want to only connect a throttle ?

Can you just use the throttle if you have the PAS installed and connected ?

I did get a small 48 volt KT48SVPR-XDL07B controller, to use instead of the 36 volt that BMS sells for the Q100 motors.

So

When Looking at the Controller , Motor Hall wires there are five , Red/Black/Blue/Green/Yellow,
However
The wire coming from the Hub has one more pin , a white one .

What is the White Wire ?

Has anyone just left this one off ? ( there is only 5 Hall wires going into the controller , on the controller side , just like the Infineon )

The white wire is the speed sensor. You should have a separate three wire connector for the spoke magnet sensor on the controller. Instead of connecting that sensor, connect the white wire to the signal wire (not red or black).

The throttle will work fine without a PAS connected. The best thing about the PAS is that it gives current control, so you can use low power when going slow, and turn up the power when you get up to speed. That's very useful if you have a 328 rpm motor in a 26" or bigger wheel. The throttle will draw maximum power as soon as you open it because it works as a speed controller.

I see the three wire / connector for the spoke magnet , it has Red, Black , and White,
So are you saying to cut the White wire from the Controller , and wire it together with the White Motor Hall Sensor Wire ( white ) Directly ?
and just leave the white wire that goes to the speed sensor , not , connected ?

Or Connect all three together ? Like make a y connector for all three white wires ?

Or

Just not connect it all ? , since I just read another thread, and post on that thread , from Motomech and Leo99 saying not to even connect the white wire coming off the hub motor .

Or splice the White wire from the motor , to the controller white wire, between the controller and the connector that then connects to the spoke magnet ?

Which brings another question, Do I need to connect the spoke magnet to the controller , meaning put it on the bike , or just leave off/ not even use a speed wheel sensor ?
I used to use spoke speed sensors/computers, but now have a Garmin 500 to tell me what speed I am going , along with many other features.

If I have the PAS sensor on the BB , and Connected to the Controller, It looks like there is only 5 levels of assist ?

Would not , just using a throttle provide much more levels of assist ? ( the more throttle is turned, the more assist ? )

That is how I used the Mac Hub Motor , with Infineon controller, and EM3ev Throttle with 3 position speed switch, and green button cruise control.
I just twisted the throttle , until I got the exact amount of assist I needed/wanted, so in essence liner , infinite pas .

d8veh said:

The white wire is the speed sensor. You should have a separate three wire connector for the spoke magnet sensor on the controller. Instead of connecting that sensor, connect the white wire to the signal wire (not red or black).

The throttle will work fine without a PAS connected. The best thing about the PAS is that it gives current control, so you can use low power when going slow, and turn up the power when you get up to speed. That's very useful if you have a 328 rpm motor in a 26" or bigger wheel. The throttle will draw maximum power as soon as you open it because it works as a speed controller.

Click to expand...

Motor white wire to controller white wire. Leave the red and black disconnected. Chuck your spoke sensor.

D8veh,

Change in plans I will, Now, install the S-LCD3 Display on the bike,
I will not be using a PAS sensor since my crank ( BB30) would not accept one without allot of modifications. the crank arms on both sides go right up against the Bottom Bracket Shell of the Bike with 1 mm or less of clearance.

I found only 2 videos on setting up/programing that Display, and not through at that.
one of them programed for 14 inch tires, the other video said they first programed the display for 28 inch tires ( it is a fat bike ) and found the indicated speed , on the display to be almost double what the real speed was, then programed the display for 14 inches .

What have you programed , or would program , it for 650b 38 mm tires, which should be close to 700c 23mm tires . ?

Since I will now be using the display, would I still cut / splice into the white wire of the controller, ( white from motor to white of controller ) and still chuck the wheel magnet speed sensor ?

Any plans on making a video on programing the S-LCD3 display ?
the ones on youtube are not very instructive .

Thanks

d8veh said:

Motor white wire to controller white wire. Leave the red and black disconnected. Chuck your spoke sensor.

Click to expand...

2 days of riding the Q100c CST , and S-LCD3 Display. ( 3 rides total )

The Display is not showing the bars on the battery capacity indicator Icon on upper left of display.

Also

The throttle will not work, unless, on Display , screen # 1
I hold the top button ( of the 3 button ) for three seconds until the little walking man icon shows,
However
Even when doing that , I must also then apply just a slight amount of throttle right at that 3 second time, one second before or after and the throttle will not work.
And
Even when applying the throttle at that 3 second time, if I do not twist throttle enough , or a little to much or fast, the throttle will not even work.
until I do this a few times to get it just right, then it will run until I have to back off the throttle for the next stop.

I am holding up cars at every stop light, and stop sign !

When I first tested it on the bike stand the battery level Icon worked, and so did the throttle, then after shutting it down, sometimes the battery level Icon shows only one bar , when in fact I have a 90 + % charge !
and from then on the throttle does not work , unless I do the above stated, complicated procedure.

I have e-mailed BMS Battery stating I have a defective Display, but for 4 days now, they still have not e-mailed me back .


Also
Where is the PDF for the instruction manual for the S-LCD 3 ?

Bottom of the page, 2 downloads;

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/670-s-lcd3-lcd-meter-for-s-series-controlers-ebike-kit.html

I also did a test, I disconnected the Display, the throttle still does not work at all .

I was ready to just do/operate the bike without the Display, and buy a Volt/Amp meter. but
with the throttle still not working without being connected to the Display, there is no sense in that.

Any other Display's being used with the Q100c cst motor ?

In my experience, this stuff is very rarely faulty. The problems are normally caused by the user installing, setting or connecting incorrectly.

Did you check the wiring diagram for the controller. You mentioned connecting the red black and white connector to the speed sensor. That would be correct for a S06S controller, but others use those colours for the throttle. The same applies to the PAS connector, which people often wrongly connect the throttle to.

The S-LCD3 display works with different voltages automatically. How can it know whether your battery is a fully-charged 36v one or an empty 48v one? You can help it by making its decision unambiguous. Disconnect the battery, discharge the capacitor by shorting the unconnected battery wires on the controller, then reconnect your fully-charged 48v battery or half-empty 36v one.

The walking man is the 6km/h mode, that gives a fixed 6km/h when you hold the "up" button.

The throttle doesn't work on level zero, but will work on levels 1 to 5.

There are some advanced settings for how the throttle works. They're normally set for normal operation. Did you change anything there?

d8veh, many things to look at here so I will go through each one or two at at time with its own post,

1 ) I did not connect any speed sensor of any type. ( the motor has 6 hall sensor wires including the extra white one , however the Kt controller does, Not, have any white wire to connect to so I left the white wire from the the motor , unconnected, the other 5 wires are connected correctly since the motor and controller have the same colored Hall Sensor wires.

2 ) I did print out a wiring diagram of the controller / wires for it at the time I bought it.

I did connect the Throttle Wires Correctly , On the KT, controller they are red, black and blue ,
on the Thumb Throttle from BMS , the wires are red, black , and white,
I did have to change the connector , the Black to Black, the Red to Red, and the Black on the controller to White from Throttle.

Throttle works , I have to use the above posted complicated series of press and twist in a certain order and time frame for it to work though.

d8veh said:

In my experience, this stuff is very rarely faulty. The problems are normally caused by the user installing, setting or connecting incorrectly.

Did you check the wiring diagram for the controller. You mentioned connecting the red black and white connector to the speed sensor. That would be correct for a S06S controller, but others use those colours for the throttle. The same applies to the PAS connector, which people often wrongly connect the throttle to.

Click to expand...

d8veh,

3 ) I have no PAS sensor hooked up, I have a BB30 BB and Crankset, there is no room for a PAS.

d8veh said:

Did you check the wiring diagram for the controller. You mentioned connecting the red black and white connector to the speed sensor. That would be correct for a S06S controller, but others use those colours for the throttle. The same applies to the PAS connector, which people often wrongly connect the throttle to.

Click to expand...

d8veh,

4 ) Short unconnected battery wires to each other on controller ?

do you mean like take a paperclip and then put each end into the controller red and black wires where the battery would connect up to ? if so would there be enough to shock me ?
I am hesitant here as I do not want to also wind up with a bad controller .
any videos on how to do / someone doing discharging of the capacitor you speak of ?

d8veh said:

The S-LCD3 display works with different voltages automatically. How can it know whether your battery is a fully-charged 36v one or an empty 48v one? You can help it by making its decision unambiguous. Disconnect the battery, discharge the capacitor by shorting the unconnected battery wires on the controller, then reconnect your fully-charged 48v battery or half-empty 36v one.

Click to expand...

d8veh,

These two things I understand , and they are the couple of things that actually do work on the display.

d8veh said:

The walking man is the 6km/h mode, that gives a fixed 6km/h when you hold the "up" button.

The throttle doesn't work on level zero, but will work on levels 1 to 5.

Click to expand...

d8veh,

Advanced is an understatement, there are a number of settings, for Display 1-3,
then there are P 1 to P 5 Parameter Settings

And

There are C 1 to C 14 Parameter Settings,

add to that the fact that it looks like someone who does not speak / understand English enough wrote that 37 page, yes 37 pages of that not written properly , manual !

There needs to be a half hour Video, from some one who has training/ or has knowlage in computer programing, and who speaks English and can demonstrate the different combination and duration of each button press, and pronounce each word slowly , to make a Video instruction manual for the S-LCD 3 Display.

5 ) Yes I did change something there , ( P1 - P5 and maby even C 1- whatever ) I do not remember, which at this point in time , what numbers I entered,
but I think I did it before things went bad on the Display, as the Display did work and the throttle did work when it was still on the work stand. then latter on in the day when I tested it again I noticed that the display and throttle was not working correctly .

There really , Needs , to be a through Video on how to set up a Display with so many Advanced Settings !

d8veh said:

There are some advanced settings for how the throttle works. They're normally set for normal operation. Did you change anything there?

Click to expand...

ScooterMan101 said:

4 ) Short unconnected battery wires to each other on controller ?

do you mean like take a paperclip and then put each end into the controller red and black wires where the battery would connect up to ? if so would there be enough to shock me ?
I am hesitant here as I do not want to also wind up with a bad controller .
any videos on how to do / someone doing discharging of the capacitor you speak of ?

Click to expand...

Yes.
There's no danger to you. You might get a small spark.

ScooterMan101 said:

d8veh,

Advanced is an understatement, there are a number of settings, for Display 1-3,
then there are P 1 to P 5 Parameter Settings

And

There are C 1 to C 14 Parameter Settings,

add to that the fact that it looks like someone who does not speak / understand English enough wrote that 37 page, yes 37 pages of that not written properly , manual !

There needs to be a half hour Video, from some one who has training/ or has knowlage in computer programing, and who speaks English and can demonstrate the different combination and duration of each button press, and pronounce each word slowly , to make a Video instruction manual for the S-LCD 3 Display.

5 ) Yes I did change something there , ( P1 - P5 and maby even C 1- whatever ) I do not remember, which at this point in time , what numbers I entered,
but I think I did it before things went bad on the Display, as the Display did work and the throttle did work when it was still on the work stand. then latter on in the day when I tested it again I noticed that the display and throttle was not working correctly .

There really , Needs , to be a through Video on how to set up a Display with so many Advanced Settings !

Click to expand...

Whenever I used any Kunteng controller and S-LCD3, where the controller is designed for a LCD, the bike always worked without changing any settings, so no need for any video instructions. The user settings for wheel-size and max speed are straight forward.

P5 affects the way the battery level is shown on the display, though it has no effect on the function of the controller. Without knowing what you've done, i can't say whether that's why your battery level doesn't display correctly.

It's always best to buy your LCD from the same source and at the same time as your controller because they need to be a matched pair. There can be differences in software and communication protocols.

If you don't intend to use PAS, these controllers are not the best solution. Their strong point is the way they handle the PAS. If you only want throttle control, any cheap controller that doesn't need a display/control panel would be cheaper and simpler.

Every couple of days, I read another thread on this forum about someone trying to use one without an LCD and having problems, then they buy an LCD after they figure out that it doesn't work properly without one, but then have mismatch problems. These controllers are really good, and I wouldn't use anything else because of the lovely PAS functions, but you have to buy the controller and LCD together.

Perhaps no need to do that now,

For the first 3 times I rode the bike the battery was, not, charged to full ( 54.4 volts )
The most I charged it was up to 53.7 volts. ( many people are saying to get a longer battery life, do not charge Li-Ion batteries to 100% )

Well today, I forgot what time I put the charger on/hooked up to the battery. The Charger charged the battery to 54.4 volts, 100 % ( the display says 54.2 volts, Volt meter says 54.4 volts, and past experience with this battery and the other Display I used on other bike, the C.A. , the S-LCD3 is a little off )

The Battery level Icon is now working .
Also
In the Window # 3 on the LCD the Battery Voltage has been showing up all this time , it is right there at the bottom of the LCD Display.

I will try both methods ( charging to under 100% , then to 100% , ... over the next two weeks to see if the S-LCD 3 Display needs a fully 100% charged battery to get the Battery Level Icon , in the upper left corner to work.

d8veh said:

ScooterMan101 said:

4 ) Short unconnected battery wires to each other on controller ?

do you mean like take a paperclip and then put each end into the controller red and black wires where the battery would connect up to ? if so would there be enough to shock me ?
I am hesitant here as I do not want to also wind up with a bad controller .
any videos on how to do / someone doing discharging of the capacitor you speak of ?

Click to expand...

Yes.
There's no danger to you. You might get a small spark.

Click to expand...

Well the first day I hooked up the controller and LCD , I pushed some buttons to adjust the max speed and wheel size, that was straight forward enough.
However
Somehow the Display then went to , what I now know as P Settings, I was tired, I thought they were for power assist mode, so I just pushed either the up or down button to get the largest figure that came up on the screen.
I am now thinking that I messed up P1 through P5 settings,
Perhaps even some or all of the C cettings also.

Is there a way to reset everything ?
Like on a computer ?

BTW, we , Do , need video instructions, just one example, the instructions say that in order to
reset the last trip time and distance,
that you should hold down both the top and bottom button, and when both figures flash on and off, to push the middle button,
Well
I did that for two days and it did not work, what , Does, work is to Hold Down both the top and bottom ( up and down ) buttons until the last Ride Time and Distance flashes, then you must , Let Go , of the top and bottom button, then press the middle button , in order for the trip millage and time to reset .

Also I really should have an instructional video , there are 37 pages of instructions ! and the way most of it is written, it does not make sense, also too many pages, and steps to go through to get ti the P1 trough P 5 settings, and then the C settings. after 7 pages or so, I have too much confusing , information, that is not written in a way that makes sense in the first place.

I really do need a full instruction Video on something that has 37 pages of poorly written instructions.

d8veh said:

Whenever I used any Kunteng controller and S-LCD3, where the controller is designed for a LCD, the bike always worked without changing any settings, so no need for any video instructions. The user settings for wheel-size and max speed are straight forward.

P5 affects the way the battery level is shown on the display, though it has no effect on the function of the controller. Without knowing what you've done, i can't say whether that's why your battery level doesn't display correctly.

Click to expand...

Looks like I need some info to set correctly some of the P settings,

For P 1 Setting , What is the
" Motor Gear Reduction Ratio x Number of Magnet Pieces "
of the Q100c cst 201 rpm motor . ? ( BMS does not list that on their website )

For P 2 Setting, How Many
" Wheel Pulse Signals By A Revolution "
for the Q100c cst 201 rpm motor ? ( also not listed by BMS Battery . Com )

For P 3 Setting , enter 5 ?

For P 4 Setting, since I have no PAS , I can figure out enter 0 , or is that 0 and/or 1 ?

For P 5 Setting, BMS Battery does not sell a 48 volt controller for the Q100c cst, so perhaps they sent a / have made for them the S-LCD 3 Displays to read only 24 to 36 volts ? ( have numbers set in P 5 setting for only 24 volt and 36 volt batteries ) ?
The instructions do not say what number/s to enter on this P 5 setting for a 48 volt battery . The Manual only lists the numbers to enter for a 24 volt or 36 volt battery .

Firstly, always fully charge your battery with the charger supplied. If you don't fully charge it, the balancing won't work, so it'll go out of balance, lose capacity and bring other problems. Don't take any notice of the intellectual masturbation that people try and confuse you with. It doesn't apply to your battery/BMS.

P1 = reduction ratio x no of magnets. You find that info in the BMSB listing of the Q100c. i.e. 14.2 x 16 = 227. It affects how smoothly the motor runs.
P2 = number of pulses per revolution from the speed sensor. If you have a wheel-speed sensor, P2 =1. If you have a hub sensor (white wire) P2 =1. If you're using the motor halls, P2=0. I've got a feeling that my P2=0 and it works OK with a wheel-speed sensor, so p2=0 and P2 =1 might be the same.
P3 = 0 for current control, P3 = 1 for speed control. They only apply to the way the controller gives power for the PAS. It has no effect on the throttle, which is always a speed controller.
P4 is the throttle mode. P4=0 for normal throttle operation, P4=1 for PAS mode, where you have to pedal before the throttle will work. That's the one you probably have wrong.
P5 is the battery display damping coefficient, which affects how rapidly the battery display changes when the battery voltage changes to avoid sag showing your battery lower than it actually is. For a 48v battery P5 should be about 10. If you set it to zero, the battery display will go up and sown as per the actual battery voltage, i.e. no damping.

While trying to reset the trip milage counter today after a ride/charge, I could not get it to reset, so I pressed the up and down button for a little longer after setting speed , wheel size and Km's or Mph , and it entered the P 1 - 5 settings, ( so that is how you get to the P settings .
I reset all 5 to the figures you listed below, and Now the Throttle works as it should

all 1 through 5 settings were off, so now the battery display icon should also work properly.

Thanks d8veh .

Now on to other trouble shooting problems with the build.

I installed a , inline brake cut off switch, ( the one that you thread the cable to the brake caliper through ) then hooked up the plug from B.C.O.S. to the controller since they were both 3 wire and same plugs , however only the Red wires were the same position on both plugs.
The inline brake cut off switch did not work.

So Then
I switched the other two wires, by pushing out the pins on the B.C.O.S. side, now the the Yellow to the Yellow, ( The Red ones were always on the same outside.
The inline brake cut off switch still does not work even with the Red to Red and the Yellow to Yellow, ( the controller has Black wire and the inline brake cut off switch has blue, which are now connected,
It is not working, even though the little Red LED light on the inline brake cut off switch is on ( Lighted up )

The controller is the 48 volt one , recommended one that was on Aliexpress a year ago it is a KT , Kuntang,
I think the inline brake cut off switch is from BMS ( I bought it from someone locally that bought a couple of Q100 motors .

d8veh said:

Firstly, always fully charge your battery with the charger supplied. If you don't fully charge it, the balancing won't work, so it'll go out of balance, lose capacity and bring other problems. Don't take any notice of the intellectual masturbation that people try and confuse you with. It doesn't apply to your battery/BMS.

P1 = reduction ratio x no of magnets. You find that info in the BMSB listing of the Q100c. i.e. 14.2 x 16 = 227. It affects how smoothly the motor runs.
P2 = number of pulses per revolution from the speed sensor. If you have a wheel-speed sensor, P2 =1. If you have a hub sensor (white wire) P2 =1. If you're using the motor halls, P2=0. I've got a feeling that my P2=0 and it works OK with a wheel-speed sensor, so p2=0 and P2 =1 might be the same.
P3 = 0 for current control, P3 = 1 for speed control. They only apply to the way the controller gives power for the PAS. It has no effect on the throttle, which is always a speed controller.
P4 is the throttle mode. P4=0 for normal throttle operation, P4=1 for PAS mode, where you have to pedal before the throttle will work. That's the one you probably have wrong.
P5 is the battery display damping coefficient, which affects how rapidly the battery display changes when the battery voltage changes to avoid sag showing your battery lower than it actually is. For a 48v battery P5 should be about 10. If you set it to zero, the battery display will go up and sown as per the actual battery voltage, i.e. no damping.

Click to expand...

d8veh said:

...............
The S-LCD3 display works with different voltages automatically. How can it know whether your battery is a fully-charged 36v one or an empty 48v one? You can help it by making its decision unambiguous. Disconnect the battery, discharge the capacitor by shorting the unconnected battery wires on the controller, then reconnect your fully-charged 48v battery or half-empty 36v one.
...........

Click to expand...

As I have some stuttering problems above 48V and as the battery indicator doesn't function well, it might be that my controller/LCD3 presumes I have an 36V system. 48V11.6Ah Bottle-09 Panasonic Battery Pack

I like to give it a try to discharge the capacitor by shorting the unconnected battery wires on the controller but I don't know where "to bring on my paperclip". Is it needed to open the battery case for that?

I never did do that, I just use now 12s or 14 s battery pack, and press the center button on the on/off switch to go to the third ( 3rd) display window where on that window it will give you a digital read out of what your battery voltage is at that moment.
now
For your question to d8veh , I do not think he posts much on E.S. much any more, so until he gets back to you ...
I think he means to short out the capacitors on the controller , never short out wires on a battery .
So If I am reading correctly he says to disconnect the battery from the controller, then on the wires that come of of the controller that the battery connects to, they should be red and black, connect the paper clip to the red and black connector coming out from the controller.

I connected the poles of the craddle, unfortunately the problems came back in the next battery cycle (loaded up to 54,5V).

NOTE: I finally learned the controller received was a 36V type. BMSBattery provided for free a replacement 48V controller. Things work fine now!