Help newbie with some questions. (updated, new ?????)

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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john*thomas   1 mW

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Help newbie with some questions. (updated, new ?????)

Post by john*thomas » Aug 01 2016 1:51pm

O.K., here goes.......I plan on building my own eBike. This seems the easiest way for me to grasp all of this. Ill do as instructed........

I'm 55, 5 foot 10 and appx 165 lbs. In relatively good physical shape. My main concern is simplicity. I'll pay extra to get simple. I hope to keep my costs excluding the bike to no more than $600-$700. I want to build a standard cruiser. Any off road riding will be on roads or paths intended to travel on. (there are railtrails nearby). Some hills but nothing extreme. Such as crossing a large bridge. 20-25 mph is absolutely fine. I'm not interested in absolute top speed. A few hours is all the charge I would need also. If it makes any difference there would be a good bit of stop and go as opposed to long range rides.

My hobby is photography and I'd like to be able to go and not end up a few miles from my car and have to walk back. The ability for slow speeds is something I would use along with easily switching to pedaling. Seems to me that in places with lots of people it's probably better to just pedal.

Being interested in simplicity am I right that a rear drive geared hub will work OK with a single speed bike? Will a single speed 26 inch bike generally get to 20 mph on it's own? (on relatively flat, slightly hilly land).

I have a drone I use for photography and I'm familiar with lipo batteries and I've never had a problem but I store them in a metal box. My bike would be stored in my garage so should I look at LiFePo4? (these are new terms to me). What should I look for to meet my needs?

Will rim clamp brakes stop me O.K.? (I've used them for 45 years). I'd like to something similar to this.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/56 ... 2d22ab.jpg

Maybe, maybe not the springer front but something simple. I was going to get a bike before posting but then thought I better make sure to the right bike to start. (I have a mountain bike now but that's not what I want).

Thanks.
Last edited by john*thomas on Aug 27 2016 9:09am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Help newbie with some questions.

Post by amberwolf » Aug 01 2016 2:17pm

john*thomas wrote: nothing extreme. Such as crossing a large bridge. 20-25 mph is absolutely fine. I'm not interested in absolute top speed. A few hours is all the charge I would need also. If it makes any difference there would be a good bit of stop and go as opposed to long range rides.
Stop and go will take more power (not as much more if you do most of the startup work, but for me that's what I most need the motors for).

Faster you go, more power it takes. Several hours of stop and go 20-25mph riding will take a lot of power if the motor does most or all of the work, especially with hills.

I have a 50-cal ammocan sized pack of EIG 20ah cells (14s 1p, ~58v 20ah total) that weighs around 20lbs-ish that gives about 1kwh, or 1000w for one hour (500w for 2 hours; this is more typical usage if cruising, but it takes almost 4kw at startup for at most a couple seconds). On my heavy bike that gets around 30wh/mile on longer trips, flat terrain, no real wind, motor only, that's about 30-ish miles of range, depending on how many starts/stops i have to do.

If I had a bike that used only 15wh/mile, then I could use that same pack for twice as much riding.
Being interested in simplicity am I right that a rear drive geared hub will work OK with a single speed bike? Will a single speed 26 inch bike generally get to 20 mph on it's own? (on relatively flat, slightly hilly land).

Yes, to the second. The first depedns on width of rear dropouts vs axle length of motor. As long as you are using a single speed freewheel then at least that part isn't a concern, but axles on many rear motors are too wide for the narrower single-speed dropouts. You'd need to measure yours and then check the width of the motor you intend to use.

My solution was to use a DD hubmotor meant for the front and bolt part of a regular b ike hub to it's sidecover, andn add a singlespeed freewheel to it. There is a thread from yesterday I posted some links to threads on how to do t hat.

I have a drone I use for photography and I'm familiar with lipo batteries and I've never had a problem but I store them in a metal box. My bike would be stored in my garage so should I look at LiFePo4? (these are new terms to me). What should I look for to meet my needs?
You can use LiPo if you're familiar with it and respect it. ;) Many bikes do; I use to use a 7.62ammocan to carry 14s2p 5Ah packs for a 10Ah battery; it's just too old to do what I need anymore (and puffy, so it stays out in the shed).
Will rim clamp brakes stop me O.K.? (I've used them for 45 years). I'd like to something similar to this.
As long as theyre' well adjsuted and got good pads theyr'e bbetter than most other options. :) I use them on my heavy cargo bike and trike just fine.
Thanks.[/quote]

john*thomas   1 mW

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Re: Help newbie with some questions.

Post by john*thomas » Aug 01 2016 2:41pm

Thanks.......the drop out thing is something I didn't consider and the type of advice I am looking for. If I find a standard frame multi speed bike I have no problem with that but that adds other complications does it not?

I have no problem peddling to start off. I have no problem with peddling.........I just don't want to all the time. :D

I'll listen to all suggestions and options.

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Re: Help newbie with some questions.

Post by john*thomas » Aug 04 2016 8:34pm

SO a change in possible plans.........I have a VW TDI and if you have been paying attention you know the deal. I have a $500 dealer card I need to spend. I was considering buying this. (I also get 20% off that price)

https://www.drivergear.vw.com/Product/F ... -13323.htm

Now, if I buy this will it work with this bike?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/182229234315?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

If so, do I just need to add a battery? What would be a good choice?

Thanks

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Re: Help newbie with some questions.

Post by dogman dan » Aug 05 2016 10:31am

Some folding bikes have narrower hubs, so the generic size motor kits will be too wide.

So confirm the bike has 135mm wide rear, before you buy it.

I would suggest the best bet would be a 7 speed beach cruiser, and a hitch mount bike rack to carry it.

But I do get the appeal of a folder.

for that 1000w kit,, at least 15 ah size lithium battery will be needed.

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Re: Help newbie with some questions.

Post by john*thomas » Aug 05 2016 2:50pm

Thank you..........I'm not sure I could even get the drop out size......It's seems these are pretty standard in size. I've seen (far cheaper) very similar bikes. As I explained though, I'm not really actually even paying for it. VW has a 26 inch beach bike but it's a single speed.

Surely someone has a similar bike. I'll continue researching until I get better info.

Thanks again.

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Re: Help newbie with some questions.

Post by amberwolf » Aug 05 2016 3:11pm

Lots of peole have "similar" bikes, but you have ot know what *that* bike's measurements are to be able to be sure parts you order will fit it. ;)

Just because they are similar doesn't mean they are the same. If y ou look up "folder" or "folding bike" here on ES, you'll find a lot of different ones. Maybe even more under other names.

Personally I think you'd be happier with the beach cruser than the folder, even if it's single speed, because it'll have larger wheels and can probably take fatter tires for better bump absorption without suspension. It'll also carry stuff easier than the folder will, being a bit longer. The main advantage of a folder is it's flding ability, so it can be stored or transorted without riding it, more easily. If you don't need to do that, it's a weaker frame in gneral becuase of the folding abilty, and could be compromised in ohter ways dependong on exadtly what you need to do with it vs what it has/is/can do.

You'd have to link the specific bike you're thinking of, though for me to give any better info than just that general stuff.


The only catch is that with the single speed as I noted before you might have to do extra work to put a hubmotor on the rear. If you put it on the front it'd be easy.

Also note that you could put a 3speed IGH in the rear wheel on a single speed, to give you more gears if you needed them.

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Re: Help newbie with some questions.

Post by john*thomas » Aug 05 2016 3:43pm

Thank you, you've been a lot of help. This is all new to me and so many things I haven't considered even with trying to read as much as I can.

How is a front drive with handling? I would think with absolutely NO experience that it might be squirrely.

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Re: Help newbie with some questions.

Post by amberwolf » Aug 06 2016 1:48am

Sorry I couldn't help.
There's a few threads about that, such as this one
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=64901
or this one
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=15769

SOme of the others in this search
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/searc ... =firstpost
also mention it, including a for-sale post about a nishiki.

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Re: Help newbie with some questions.

Post by john*thomas » Aug 27 2016 9:09am

O.K. After considering many things.......(and the wife saying she would like one also) I ordered two of these (because as I said above, I got them for basically nothing and they fit our planned use as I'll explain)

Image

I plan on converting one at first to see how it goes and change the next one if necessary (I'll use mine more than she will hers). Trying to keep it simple.....what can I expect out of getting the items linked here. (going 36v)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ebike-Electric- ... d-_eTGPfmA

http://www.ebay.com/itm/36v-10-4ah-wate ... SwV0RXvnXr

I'm assuming the battery should fit on the rear rack. Is there something I'm missing? Are there better options? (I would prefer to stick with U.S. suppliers in case of problems)

Would I be happier going 48V? Is there a real need for it for casual riding? (No big hills, obviously not looking for outright top speed) I'm assuming the controller is less than top quality.

Looks like I can build two for the price of one elsewhere. (because of the mentioned no cost bikes).

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Re: Help newbie with some questions. (updated, new ?????)

Post by Ykick » Aug 27 2016 10:36am

As long as those frames have suitable dropout spacing or BB width you should be able to shoehorn some sorta drive system into ‘em? However, no pre-purchase dimensions? That’s risky, IMO.

Oh, I see the front eBay motor now? Are you sure those bikes have 100mm front dropouts? Many folding bikes use 85mm or narrower front hubs.

Hands down best folding bike for conversion will be Xootr Swift. They accept standard bicycle components and they don’t use that silly and weak clamping hinge in the middle of the frame.

btw, that bolt-on rear rack will never hold up to a very heavy battery, IMO. And yes, 48V is ALWAYS better than 36V.
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Re: Help newbie with some questions. (updated, new ?????)

Post by john*thomas » Aug 27 2016 11:14am

Ykick wrote:As long as those frames have suitable dropout spacing or BB width you should be able to shoehorn some sorta drive system into ‘em? However, no pre-purchase dimensions? That’s risky, IMO.

Yes, thank you. I am going to wait until they arrive before purchasing.
Oh, I see the front eBay motor now? Are you sure those bikes have 100mm front dropouts? Many folding bikes use 85mm or narrower front hubs.

Hands down best folding bike for conversion will be Xootr Swift. They accept standard bicycle components and they don’t use that silly and weak clamping hinge in the middle of the frame.

btw, that bolt-on rear rack will never hold up to a very heavy battery, IMO. And yes, 48V is ALWAYS better than 36V.

I am sure that it is better. :D

Our use will be very lightweight. Both in our 50's and less than 170 lbs. I considered the rack which in part is why I thought going 36v would be better. 15-20 mph and probably never over 10 miles would be the top of our requirements.

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Re: Help newbie with some questions. (updated, new ?????)

Post by john*thomas » Sep 06 2016 8:48pm

Bikes are here. Appear to be 100mm front drop outs. Busy tomorrow but I'll continue later in the week.

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Re: Help newbie with some questions. (updated, new ?????)

Post by dogman dan » Sep 07 2016 6:17am

Cool.. those old aotema kits are very 2008 tech, but even so, they will work great in a 20" wheel. They were just a bit too fast, and a bit too sluggish to start up in 26"wheel.

Don't need the latest greatest stuff to have a nice e bike. your choice will work fine. 36v all you need.

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Re: Help newbie with some questions. (updated, new ?????)

Post by john*thomas » Oct 04 2016 2:05pm

Wheel arrived today.....(I waited to order a battery until I saw if this would work). The rim fits well. I may have to make some adjustments to the brakes. The rim is quite a bit wider than the original rim which is good since it fits. The bike needed bigger tires. I'll have to simply fit a bigger tire to the standard rear rim.
ebike1.jpg
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Re: Help newbie with some questions. (updated, new ?????)

Post by amberwolf » Oct 04 2016 2:29pm

On the rim brake pads, there are two different sized cupped thick washers, one thicker than the other. For your wider rim, move the thicker one to the outside, and the thinner one to the inside (between brake arm and rim).

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Re: Help newbie with some questions. (updated, new ?????)

Post by john*thomas » Oct 04 2016 2:59pm

amberwolf wrote:On the rim brake pads, there are two different sized cupped thick washers, one thicker than the other. For your wider rim, move the thicker one to the outside, and the thinner one to the inside (between brake arm and rim).

Thanks.....I was just now messing with that and it's going to work. (I'm sure I will have plenty more questions).

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Re: Help newbie with some questions. (updated, new ?????)

Post by john*thomas » Oct 04 2016 4:08pm

Now to go get a tire....better secure the bag and get the battery ordered.
ebike3.jpg

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Re: Help newbie with some questions. (updated, new ?????)

Post by john*thomas » Oct 04 2016 7:32pm

So do I need to make sure to get anything specific in a battery? It's a 36v 750W kit.

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Re: Help newbie with some questions. (updated, new ?????)

Post by john*thomas » Oct 05 2016 6:26am

O.K., let's try this asking another way........for what I am wanting.......easy cruising......some peddling......Maybe 10 miles at a time will I be O.K. with a 36v 10.4Ah battery? The price difference seems almost double to go to a 20Ah but I don't see the need for extra battery time if it's not something I'm actually going to use.

Obviously this bike isn't built for high speed long distance use.

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