Whats the most stealthiest yet powerful motor

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markz   100 GW

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Whats the most stealthiest yet powerful motor

Post by markz » Aug 16 2016 11:24pm

Whats the most stealthiest yet powerful motor aside from covering the motor up with pannier bags or the like. I'd prefer DD for its quietness, but I'd take a geared motor too.

I got the itch to buy another motor. I was going to buy the Edge 1500W from LAebikes, but I already got the MXUS 3000W V2 and the Leaf/Edge are close in diameter to the MXUS.
MXUS spoke-hole flange diameter of 231mm (9.1") (spoke Pitch Circle Diameter / PCD)


For some reason I got the geared MXUS XF07 in my mind. Quick search reveals this,
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 7#p1072635
One of the most strongest geared hubs known are Mxus XF07


https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 7#p1072853
The strongest geared drive by far is the MAC 500w.............
............A direct drive motor would be 5-10% more efficient at cruising speed and nearly dead silent running, but nothing on the market could be hidden. it's going to be obvious you have something huge in your wheel. The Old Crystalyte 408 series motors were smaller and even quieter, but they aren't sold anymore.
Reading that last quote, I just had a vision. You know how some bicycle riders have that sticker that says CAR FREE or something. Sometimes they put a cardboard sign in their spokes. I have even seen some where it covers the entire wheel.
http://cdn.mos.bikeradar.com/images/new ... 670-70.jpg
I think the term is "Aero Disc Covers"
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bicycle+wheel ... &ia=images
Last edited by markz on Aug 17 2016 3:04pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: Whats the most stealthiest yet powerful motor

Post by Sunder » Aug 17 2016 12:54am

Ride one on a windy day on a road with no traffic before you commit to that as your strategy. I haven't ridden a full face cover yet, but I have ridden a 80mm deep aero rim, and the slightest cross wind can cause you to drift quite substantially. Admittedly, its far worse on the front wheel than the back.

When you say "yet powerful", what's your base minimum wattage? I would call my over driven Q100h with oil cooling "powerful" but most people would scoff at that.

The only time I've had comments on my Q100h is by other electric bike riders. I get asked questions about my MAC all the time. I put it down to two things. The MAC is black while the Q100 is silver, and the Q100 sits behind the gear cluster completely, where as the MAC doesn't.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Whats the most stealthiest yet powerful motor

Post by Chalo » Aug 17 2016 1:23am

If you're stuffing kWs through a bicycle hub motor, you probably don't want to cover it from the passing airflow. Dress it up however you like-- but make sure moving air can get to it.

Isn't the Cromotor the smallest in diameter of all the overpowered bicycle hubs?

Panniers and skirt guards will mask anything you put in the middle of your rear wheel, without sealing it off.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Whats the most stealthiest yet powerful motor

Post by dogman dan » Aug 17 2016 6:05am

You just said you have the big DD motor. So you already know there is nothing stealthy at all about a bike with a big ass motor on it. Even a dumbass looking at you going by knows for sure you aren't just pedaling that thing.

So if you want stealth, you need less than 700w bro. Any geared motor will make enough noise to be noticed.

If you need serious stealth, then haunt e bay and craigslist and our for sale section, find a clyte 400 series, and then give in 48v, but 40 amps. 2000w and pretty stealthy in a rear motor. Speed will be 30 mph ish, in the 407 wind. Still too fast for stealth, but when ridden slow it will be nearly dead quiet, and hide behind big gears. Screw on disc brake hides the other side.

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Whats the most stealthiest yet powerful motor

Post by MadRhino » Aug 17 2016 7:36am

There are 2 ways to be stealth:
Making everything small and hidden,
or flying by so fast and silent that you are long gone before anyone can say "What was that" :shock:
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: Whats the most stealthiest yet powerful motor

Post by Sunder » Aug 17 2016 7:38am

dogman dan wrote:So if you want stealth, you need less than 700w bro. Any geared motor will make enough noise to be noticed.
Q100H on a FOC controller with transmission oil = silent.

I seriously cannot tell the difference in sound between motor on and freewheeling when my bike is in the stand spinning in free air.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: 5.5kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

miuan   10 kW

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Re: Whats the most stealthiest yet powerful motor

Post by miuan » Aug 17 2016 7:52am

Sunder wrote:
dogman dan wrote:So if you want stealth, you need less than 700w bro. Any geared motor will make enough noise to be noticed.
Q100H on a FOC controller with transmission oil = silent.

I seriously cannot tell the difference in sound between motor on and freewheeling when my bike is in the stand spinning in free air.
which controller do you use?

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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: Whats the most stealthiest yet powerful motor

Post by Sunder » Aug 17 2016 7:56am

miuan wrote:
Sunder wrote:
dogman dan wrote:So if you want stealth, you need less than 700w bro. Any geared motor will make enough noise to be noticed.
Q100H on a FOC controller with transmission oil = silent.

I seriously cannot tell the difference in sound between motor on and freewheeling when my bike is in the stand spinning in free air.
which controller do you use?
Phaserunner.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: 5.5kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

markz   100 GW

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Re: Whats the most stealthiest yet powerful motor

Post by markz » Aug 17 2016 2:31pm

All great points to consider.
I like Chalo's idea for motor cover-up. I never thought about that.
But I want "Naked" stealthiness. No cover-ups. Idea's on cover-ups are good to have.

So on the list we got the clyte 400 series, and the Q100h (geared) with FOC.
What about the BMSBattery Q11? Its D.D. but is 244mm diamater. So not too stealthy!

On my brushed 300W geared motor people were always looking back because of the sound coming from the motor. But my D.D. MXUS no heads turned at all so I am sold on a stealthy D.D. motor and scratching off geared. I have not got my BMC V1 to run yet, but I am betting its the same size as the MAC 1000/15000W.

Found this one XF39 1310 0049. States "Open Size (mm) - 100"
Though thats a front. Though schematic puts diameter at 231.

This schematic states around 120mm diameter.
https://wholesaler.alibaba.com/product- ... .10.Otrfv6

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Whats the most stealthiest yet powerful motor

Post by dogman dan » Aug 18 2016 6:43am

Sine wave controller should make any motor run quieter.

I had not considered oil filling a geared motor. That is a good idea. The gear noise is what I see turning heads as I go by with a 500w geared motor. Mine's been run hard, trying like hell to get it to fail. So now it's gears are very noisy.

Keep hunting for a 400 series clyte. Zillions were made, though most will still be in china. But seriously,, gotta be an ES guy has one gathering dust in the garage. Look on Vancouver craigslist is one idea you could try. Justin sold a few of those.

Run it on 2000w, it will still be fast when you want fast. But running slower, cruising at 700w, it should be dead silent, AND hides behind a gear cluster better than any 243 mm diameter DD.

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wineboyrider   100 MW

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Re: Whats the most stealthiest yet powerful motor

Post by wineboyrider » Aug 18 2016 6:48am

Conhis sells a small DD motor that looks as small as a geared motor?
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fesanand   10 W

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Re: Whats the most stealthiest yet powerful motor

Post by fesanand » Aug 18 2016 10:49am

wineboyrider wrote:Conhis sells a small DD motor that looks as small as a geared motor?
Not long ago I picked up interest on this motor, but asking conhis customer service they told me that NON-load speed is 27kmh (17mph) for 36v version and 30kmh (19mph) for 48v version, which I find paranormally slow... anyone has got experience with them?

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Whats the most stealthiest yet powerful motor

Post by dogman dan » Aug 19 2016 6:02am

That is a slow wind. You'd need to run 72v on that sucker. It would be like a 411 clyte, when what you want is the 406 or 407.

Meanwhile, try the oil trick on your geared motor.

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Re: Whats the most stealthiest yet powerful motor

Post by wineboyrider » Aug 19 2016 10:44am

I am sure they don't have the heat dissipation of a larger DD motor, but they are small and stealthy. :?
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markz   100 GW

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Re: Whats the most stealthiest yet powerful motor

Post by markz » Aug 19 2016 8:51pm

Are these correct?
Crystalyte 408 - 40mm Stator Width and 8 Turns
Then there is 4011 - 40mm with 11 Turns.
Crystalyte 3540 - 35mm Stator Width and 40KPH @ 36V
Get the RPM @ Voltage (unloaded) then divide RPM by Voltage to get KV

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I found that Conhis site, the diameter is 245mm for 1000W and 500W, 48V 350W is 148mm while the 400 series is 184mm, geared BMC V1 is 163mm. I am trying to find info on the BMS Battery geared motors Q100H and others. But I remember reading its a pain to find gears for them. Where as I easily bought BMC V1 gears.

http://www.conhismotor.com/ProductsList.asp?id=113
48V 350W - http://www.conhismotor.com/ProductShow.asp?id=418 Wonder how much you can over power this one? 40mm difference from the 400.
1000W motor - http://www.conhismotor.com/ProductShow.asp?id=28
SAW400 - http://www.crystalyte.com/Dimensions_SAW_rear_motor.pdf

cwah   10 GW

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Re: Whats the most stealthiest yet powerful motor

Post by cwah » Aug 21 2016 2:12pm

Dual q128h on sinewave controller?
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

atarijedi   100 W

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Re: Whats the most stealthiest yet powerful motor

Post by atarijedi » Aug 23 2016 2:43pm

I'd say a QS 273 40H or Cromotor V4 with an Adaptto or Sabvoton controller. They are very quiet.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Whats the most stealthiest yet powerful motor

Post by dogman dan » Aug 24 2016 6:00am

I'm not sure what the exact stator width is for the clyte 408. I think it's 25 mm, 28 mm, something in that ballpark. the 40 may mean the whole case is 40 mm? I'm not sure.

Power wise, it's comparable with the 9 c type, like that. Handles up to 2000w ok, rated 500w. Like the 9c, can push to 3000w, but overheats a tad fast run that way.

408 is an 8 turn. Not fast, not slow,, in 26" rim, 20 mph on 36v. 4011 is a much slower 11 turn. 406 is the fast one if you are looking for that. 25 mph on 36v.

markz   100 GW

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Re: Whats the most stealthiest yet powerful motor

Post by markz » Oct 04 2016 11:30pm

Whats the difference between the Crystalyte 400 series rear and front?
The only things I can see is the shaft flats width 100(f) to 137(r).
I was thinking there might be a difference in the magnets or the width of the stator.



http://www.crystalyte.com/Dimensions_SA ... _motor.pdf
http://www.crystalyte.com/Dimensions_SAW_rear_motor.pdf

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Re: Whats the most stealthiest yet powerful motor

Post by Cephalotus » Oct 05 2016 4:06pm

markz wrote:Whats the most stealthiest yet powerful motor aside from covering the motor up with pannier bags or the like. I'd prefer DD for its quietness, but I'd take a geared motor too.
...
I think the term is "Aero Disc Covers"
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bicycle+wheel ... &ia=images
Hmm.

The only DD I know that fits INSIDE the rear wheel spokes is the BionX d-Series motor....

you could easily hide that one with aero disc covers...

You can also mount a real cassette so buiding a bike that looks like a fast road bike is no problem. (ever seen a MTB with aero disc covers?)

The 48V 30A max controller is already hidden inside the motor. With the new RC3 system you just need a very small thottle (display is optional) and obviously a place to mount a battery with a Bionx BMS...

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