Drop-Bar eBikes (like a "road" bike)

Hey all!

I'm very much a road biker, drop bars and spandex and all that ridiculous stuff.

My question is if there are any good, performance oriented eBikes out there that have drop bars, road bike geometry (a little more leaned over and stretched out), and maybe tend to be lighter than a usual hefty eBike.

I've seen a few examples since Interbike this year. But they use the relatively bulky Bosch systems. I don't really care if it's mid-drive or hub drive so long as the experience is nice.

• The Bulls Dail-E Grinder, which is like a drop-bar touring bike.
  The Haibike XDuro Race which is basically trying to be a fast road bike with a mid-drive.

Are there any others? It would be great if there was a carbon fiber one, but I bet it would be quite expensive. My budget...well...I'll have to think about that one. But for now, I would just like to learn about what's out there.

As far as I know, there are no good performance ebikes in mass production like what you want.

but its really easy to make one yourself with quality parts. Heres one build thats 3 years old: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47139

(its the only lightweight build I have bookmarked)
I also have this bookmarked: https://www.electricbike.com/10-light-electric-bikes/

I haven't seen any either. The Vivax system has been around for several years if you only want an intermittent boost.

http://www.vivax-assist.com/en/unternehmen/index.php

These guys are building bikes with it installed.
http://www.goatbikes.com/section811575.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv5F5N6mFf0

Oh man, I am definitely aware of the Vivax system. What with all the hoopla in UCI racing.

So, it's definitely a contender I guess. But I don't know how to try it out in the US, unfortunately. I have seen some Youtube videos which kind of suggest it's not so amazing.

I would definitely like a button-less assist. Torque sensing would be preferred for me!

Here you go. Up to 28 mph assist.

http://www.haibike.com/en-US/US/bikes/368/2017-xduro-race-s-6-0?variant=3858411750

Oops! I see you already know about this one.

check luna's website. lunacycle.com.

Just my opinion,, but if you will now be riding 25mph or more all the time in a city,, you need to learn to ride sitting up a bit more, looking out for those cars that think you are going only 15 mph. Put some straight bars on your favorite bike. There is a reason those urban fixie bikes have the drop bars replaced. you can't haul ass in a tuck, and trust those cars. You gotta sit up just enough to really see them.

Yeah,, I know,,, you ride that fast now, but it's just as big a risk, if you ride in much traffic. With a motor, you can afford the increased drag, for a city commute.

I'm talking about city riding,, ignore this if you ride more rural, or even suburban. You can still have a drop bar bike for rides in safer places.

I have subscribed to the Grant Peterson philosophy of roadbikes, for years. It is the only way I can ride a roadbike any distance. Set the bike up with the bar tops at or slightly above seat height, with a short enough stem, so your back is at an ~ 45 degree angle with hands on the bar top. If you want to get aero, that is what the drops are for. The other thing he has promoted for decades is fatter tires, also good advice, especially with power assist.

http://www.rivbike.com/Staff-Bikes-s/766.htm

Once you ride an ebike, the need for efficient pedal work is fading and the need for comfort and safety does increase. The ideal bike that you like to pedal today, is probably very different than what you will consider ideal after a few month experience of motorized riding.

I like the luna road bike.

I hear ya on wanting a drop bar bike. I go against the grain here - I built both a mountain bike and a road bike.

at 50+ lbs bike, comfort is a priority.

but if you can find/build a sub 30lb road bike - well, there is nothing like a well ballanced, light road bike ridden hard in the drops. When batteries were heavy, I favored my mountain bike. Now that light batteries are available, I favor the road bike.

Besides, it is the ultimate in stealth...

Do you live in a Flat Area ? or an area with Hills ?

Will you be riding on Country Roads , or , City Streets, Bike Paths ?

Do you want to buy something already built or convert your own/do your own conversion ?

What speeds are you usually riding at ?

If you want torque sensing, or cadence sensing , you are going to have to find a Carbon Frame with the older BSA threaded Bottom Bracket , when converting your own bike to e-assist.
( I use a throttle and it works just fine, I made my throttle a sticky throttle , to get to the speed I want then just shift gears until I get a good cadence that works for my knees and cardiovascular system , it works perfectly for me . )

bdole said:

Hey all!

I'm very much a road biker, drop bars and spandex and all that ridiculous stuff.

My question is if there are any good, performance oriented eBikes out there that have drop bars, road bike geometry (a little more leaned over and stretched out), and maybe tend to be lighter than a usual hefty eBike.

I've seen a few examples since Interbike this year. But they use the relatively bulky Bosch systems. I don't really care if it's mid-drive or hub drive so long as the experience is nice.

• The Bulls Dail-E Grinder, which is like a drop-bar touring bike.
  The Haibike XDuro Race which is basically trying to be a fast road bike with a mid-drive.

Are there any others? It would be great if there was a carbon fiber one, but I bet it would be quite expensive. My budget...well...I'll have to think about that one. But for now, I would just like to learn about what's out there.

Click to expand...

*high five road bike crowd!*

I'd say build it yourself for the experience. Use an aluminium frame as a carbon frame with a powerful rear hub is a "no no" and the carbon thickness around the bottom bracket makes it unsuitable for a BBS mid drive. (physically cant fit it).

My cyclocross/gravel grinder based off a 29er bike with rigid suspension and drop bars with a 52v BBS02 system for 30mph cruising is 19kg. That's a fairly comfortable weight to travel short/medium distances. The bike without batteries is 17kg and for every extra 2kg of batteries I double my range. I'm not using expensive light weight parts... We're talking low end shimano altus groupsets.

Nice build, I love it.

That crash video is painful to watch though. Looks like you even had a flashing strobe on your bike and that wasn't enough. Certainly, cars are not expecting a bike to be going as fast as we do - I'm always on the alert for someone doing something stupid. Still, don't know how one would avoid a crash in your situation...

dogman dan said:

Just my opinion,, but if you will now be riding 25mph or more all the time in a city,, you need to learn to ride sitting up a bit more, looking out for those cars that think you are going only 15 mph. Put some straight bars on your favorite bike. There is a reason those urban fixie bikes have the drop bars replaced. you can't haul ass in a tuck, and trust those cars. You gotta sit up just enough to really see them.

Yeah,, I know,,, you ride that fast now, but it's just as big a risk, if you ride in much traffic. With a motor, you can afford the increased drag, for a city commute.

I'm talking about city riding,, ignore this if you ride more rural, or even suburban. You can still have a drop bar bike for rides in safer places.

Click to expand...

I agree wholeheartedly on this when it comes to city riding. But I am aiming for performance when I'm on my road bike, provided I'm out in the country-side. I should have mentioned that I don't need assist up to 25mph+. I would really just like it to help me overcome hills and wind at a moderate pace. So, if I can do a steep hill just like a pro, that would be great. Maybe the normal 25km/h style of eBike, then? I don't need the 45km/h "speed pedelec" that is of a class on its own in Europe, etc.

My riding is definitely lots of flat stuff, but I can find "mountains" if I travel a bit.

Now that I see more of what kind of riding you will be doing, and since there is no available light weight , drop bar , affordable , road e-bike available
just yet ...
It looks like you will have to convert your own.

First there is a member here, that does not post much , that has a Chinese Carbon Frame, and he uses the Q100 motors , last I talked with him he has 2 years of commuting to work on it with no problems in regards to the frame, However note that he is using the light weight/low torque Q100 motor, first a H model I think, and now a Q100c CST ( cassette version) ? he is light weight and does not take it off road however ... and has a custom made torque arm.

There are a couple of people here on E.S. that have experience with the little Q100 motors, d8veh, probably has the most, then Chas58, and Motomech, I have a little over 400 miles on my e-conversion , flat bar , Aluminium road bike, with the Little Q100c CST motor on it.

I am using the 201 RPM Version of the little Q100c CST , and on a 650b wheel, using 48 volts. ( I will be testing another Q100c CST motor soon built into a 700c wheel on the same bike )
Presently on the 650 b wheel,
I am getting 17 to 20 mph ( 29 to 34 Km's per hour ) with no pedaling, but I peddle 98 % of the time, so I am getting about 22-23 mph with both the motor/me ... on flat ground , no/little wind. and about 20 km per hour up 10-12 % grades that are less than 1/2 mile long.

I prefer the Cassette Version of the little Q100 motor ( called the Q100c CST ) (CST meaning Cassette version ), I am using the same 10 speed Cassette that I had on the bike before I converted it to electric, there is just about 1/4 to 1/3 less turn on the tightening ring on the cassette , compared to the regular hub , so there are enough threads to securely tighten the 10 speed cassette , to the hub motor.
You do want a good rim , a welded rim to lace the motor up to . DT Swiss, or Mavic would best when using road tires with higher pressure than the usual 35 psi on mountain bikes/rims.
On a Mountain Bike converted to e-assist that has lower tire pressures you could get by with the cheaper rims, but on a road bike with higher pressures, and no suspension it really is best to get a real good quality rim .

If you are in the U.K. I think d8veh is available for hire ? to help you he has already gone through/done everything you will be wanting to do in regards to e-bike conversion .

bdole said:

I agree wholeheartedly on this when it comes to city riding. But I am aiming for performance when I'm on my road bike, provided I'm out in the country-side. I should have mentioned that I don't need assist up to 25mph+. I would really just like it to help me overcome hills and wind at a moderate pace. So, if I can do a steep hill just like a pro, that would be great. Maybe the normal 25km/h style of eBike, then? I don't need the 45km/h "speed pedelec" that is of a class on its own in Europe, etc.

My riding is definitely lots of flat stuff, but I can find "mountains" if I travel a bit.

Click to expand...

bdole said:

I agree wholeheartedly on this when it comes to city riding. But I am aiming for performance when I'm on my road bike, provided I'm out in the country-side. I should have mentioned that I don't need assist up to 25mph+. I would really just like it to help me overcome hills and wind at a moderate pace. So, if I can do a steep hill just like a pro, that would be great. Maybe the normal 25km/h style of eBike, then? I don't need the 45km/h "speed pedelec" that is of a class on its own in Europe, etc.

My riding is definitely lots of flat stuff, but I can find "mountains" if I travel a bit.

Click to expand...

I understand what you are after (it is different from what many people here build).

Yesterday my commute had a 50mph apparent wind (25mph from me, 25 from a northerly wind). I did most all of the commute in the drops, as I needed all of the efficiency I could get. Keep in mind, that when an ebike hits its top speed, the power falls of dramatically - so you are mostly on your own shortly after the motor reaches its peak.

Those little motors look promising.

What is the difference between these two?

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/651-q100c-cst-36v350w-32-hole-rear-driving-hub-motor-ebike-kit.html

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/618-q100c-cst-36v350w-rear-driving-ebike-hub-motor-ebike-kit.html

Spoke count? How many spokes on the latter?

And, is 350W likely the peak rated, or continuous?

I recently came across a brand called Cytronex, they have a store in Winchester and sell (one of) the lightest electric bikes around today (to my knowledge ).

The C1 kit that has supposedly been on the horizon for a little while has now officially been launched at the Birminham cycle show. The thing that really grabbed my attention was that the kit fits to virtually any bike - what do you guys think?

I've booked a test ride to see what its like for myself, I'll keep you posted! Here's the info on it -> http://www.cytronex.com/kit/

Frank.

The top of the two Q100c CST motors you listed has 32 flange holes for a 32 spoke/rim , which gives you a better selection of rims.
the
Bottom one you link to does not say , it has 36 hole flange for 36 hole rims, which are becoming more and more rare now and even more so in the future.

I Believe that vendors list the wattage of motors to match the volt of the battery pack, in this case for the Q100c CST 350 watts if you use a 36 battery pack

I am using a 48 volt pack, and the display is showing I am running mine at 450 + watts.

bdole said:

Those little motors look promising.

What is the difference between these two?

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/651-q100c-cst-36v350w-32-hole-rear-driving-hub-motor-ebike-kit.html

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/618-q100c-cst-36v350w-rear-driving-ebike-hub-motor-ebike-kit.html

Spoke count? How many spokes on the latter?

And, is 350W likely the peak rated, or continuous?

Click to expand...

bdole said:

Those little motors look promising.

What is the difference between these two?

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/651-q100c-cst-36v350w-32-hole-rear-driving-hub-motor-ebike-kit.html

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/618-q100c-cst-36v350w-rear-driving-ebike-hub-motor-ebike-kit.html

Spoke count? How many spokes on the latter?

And, is 350W likely the peak rated, or continuous?

Click to expand...

Go to the simulator:
http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html

and choose the Q100 328rpm.

you can simulate the slower rpm versions in a 700c wheel:
entering a 20" wheel to simulate 260 rpm in a 700c wheel
entering a 16" wheel to simulate 201 rpm in a 700c wheel

The Q100 is a very popular motor for what you are doing. Do a search here on Q100 for lots of information.

Lately, there has been a lot of discussion in this thread: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=83886&start=150

I've seen the Q100 in 32 and 36 spoke configurations. BMS battery can b e extremely obtuse with their product info, but I would GUESS the difference is in the spoke count. They would have to verify this (although if asked a yes or no question, the answer usually is yes). it is possible that only the 32 spoke one has a speed sensor in the motor

ScooterMan101 said:

I am using a 48 volt pack, and the display is showing I am running mine at 450 + watts.

Click to expand...

Yeah, and as I recall someone once said these little 15amp controllers tend to give 10amps continuous to these motors, which matches what you indicated.

All I know, is that running full throttle on a 10ah battery gives me more than an hour ride time, so I'm thinking I average about 10 amp draw.

bdole said:

Hey all!

I'm very much a road biker, drop bars and spandex and all that ridiculous stuff.

My question is if there are any good, performance oriented eBikes out there that have drop bars, road bike geometry (a little more leaned over and stretched out), and maybe tend to be lighter than a usual hefty eBike.

I've seen a few examples since Interbike this year. But they use the relatively bulky Bosch systems. I don't really care if it's mid-drive or hub drive so long as the experience is nice.

• The Bulls Dail-E Grinder, which is like a drop-bar touring bike.
  The Haibike XDuro Race which is basically trying to be a fast road bike with a mid-drive.

Are there any others? It would be great if there was a carbon fiber one, but I bet it would be quite expensive. My budget...well...I'll have to think about that one. But for now, I would just like to learn about what's out there.

Click to expand...

EBR list road bikes, but not all have drops.

https://electricbikereview.com/category/road/

I built a road bike with a Falco HX500W hub and a Gravity road bike, semi relaxed. It weighed 40lbs, was fast, 28mm tires, PAS, no speed limit.

chas58 said:

bdole said:

Go to the simulator:
http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html

and choose the Q100 328rpm.

you can simulate the slower rpm versions in a 700c wheel:
entering a 20" wheel to simulate 260 rpm in a 700c wheel
entering a 16" wheel to simulate 201 rpm in a 700c wheel

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

BMS mentions 201rpm on their site. What does 260rpm feel like? I know my average cadence is around 80. Does that translate into either 201 or 260?

Not sure if the 260 rpm motor is sold any more in regards to the Q100c CST.

These motors are so cheap in price, it is best for you to buy two of them, that way you can always have a back up hub/wheel.

Shipping for two motors is just a little more than shipping on just one motor.

If I knew back when I first ordered mine , what I know now,
I would have also bought the 328 rpm version of the 32 hole , Q100c CST.
as it is now, I have just the 201 rpm versions of this motor.
The people who have the 328 rpm version , use 36 volt ( 10 s ) battery packs
or 12 S hobby lipo packs ( 2x 6s packs)
With the 201 rpm version , for the speeds you want 48 volts or even a 52 volt pack would be better. ( 13s pack or 14 s pack )
It is best to get a pack that is at least a 3p configuration. 3 or 4 p pack for your needs. ( look into what is meant by 10s 3 p , 10s 4 p, etc. )

bdole said:

chas58 said:

bdole said:

Go to the simulator:
http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html

and choose the Q100 328rpm.

you can simulate the slower rpm versions in a 700c wheel:
entering a 20" wheel to simulate 260 rpm in a 700c wheel
entering a 16" wheel to simulate 201 rpm in a 700c wheel

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

BMS mentions 201rpm on their site. What does 260rpm feel like? I know my average cadence is around 80. Does that translate into either 201 or 260?

Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice. So you would have gotten the 328rpm version because you want a higher top end speed?