Moon's Thrasher

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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MoonBassMan   1 W

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Moon's Thrasher

Post by MoonBassMan » Nov 10 2016 7:50am

I've been riding street bikes for a few years. Most recent build was a (gas) stunt bike. Looking to go green. I want to make an electric stunt bike to replace my R6. I need torque, durability, and control.

BUILD ITEM LIST

Frame: Raptor style
200mm Front Fork: DNM USD-8
Rear Shock: Burner RPC3
Lever/Hand Guards: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004BOXKN0
Disk Brakes: HOPE Tech 3 V4, 203mm rotor
Moto Rims/Tires: 19in Rim (8g rear, 12g front spokes), Avon AM26 Motorcycle Tire (3.25-19 front, 90/90-19 rear)
Kickstand: EM3EV kickstand or Vector kickstand
Mud Guards 1: Mudhugger front & rear https://www.themudhugger.us.com/shop/
Mud Guards 2: Moto front https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0031216I4/, CRF50 rear https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Pro ... 73020.html use 3 or 4 of 7 total pieces
Mirrors: Riderscan https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MGXQL3E/
Headlights: Opar Daymaker 7in LED with Halo https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MG0ZX3Y
Brake lights & Blinkers: (Front) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01L8YZ0GU (Rear) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01L8YZ0II
Handlebar switches: Baja Bar Switches, slim profile
5v 2a USB portS: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BV1MTAA/
GPS Tracker?:
Throttle: Domino
Fuse: Automotive/Marine fuse assembly for accessories
DC-DC Converter: 100v to 12v, 25a (I need to find a new model, current inverter is too large)
LOUD Horn: Wolo (419) Air Horn https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000F5DQWY
DD hub Motor: QS v3 273 40H http://www.cnqsmotor.com/en/article_rea ... r/260.html
Torque Arms/Blocks: Buy or make
Controller: Sabvoton SVMC72200 or ASI 8000
Battery: (still being planned) 24s Lipo, 30Ah or more, charged to 4.1v per cell
BMS: (with battery build)
Charger: (with battery build)
Display: http://cnqsmotor.com/en/article_read_807.html on the bars & Cycle Analyst v3 on the frame.
Hub heat sinks: I will get two sets and modify them to fit the 273 after a few months of riding with Ferrofluid
Ferrofluid: Statorade http://www.ebikes.ca/statorade.html


OH and to add. I like the idea of later building a small coffin shaped, vertically telescoping trailer to haul behind this creation. I could store gear in/on it, extra battery packs in the trailer frame, solar panel charging. Raise it up and sleep inside. Just a thought now, but planning this bike to accommodate the likely possibility of the trailer build.






This project is in loving memory of Uncle J. Miss you
Last edited by MoonBassMan on Jul 18 2018 5:22pm, edited 61 times in total.

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MoonBassMan   1 W

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Re: Moon's Thrasher

Post by MoonBassMan » Dec 24 2016 2:17am

Eventually want to add a 2 speed drive
Hammerschmidt, Patterson's drive, Schlumpf/Schlumpf clone.
Last edited by MoonBassMan on Dec 22 2017 1:45pm, edited 2 times in total.
My build: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=84738
If I knew ES would remember account creation time, I would have waited 7 more minutes...

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MoonBassMan   1 W

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Re: Moon's Thrasher

Post by MoonBassMan » Dec 27 2016 5:33am

....
Last edited by MoonBassMan on Dec 22 2017 1:46pm, edited 1 time in total.
My build: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=84738
If I knew ES would remember account creation time, I would have waited 7 more minutes...

SlowCo   10 kW

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Re: Moon's Thrasher

Post by SlowCo » Dec 27 2016 6:16am

Evolutiongts here on E-S has experience with the components you're looking at. See his links:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1227088

http://www.blog.electricrt.com/

https://www.electricrt.com/

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MoonBassMan   1 W

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Re: Moon's Thrasher

Post by MoonBassMan » Dec 27 2016 5:15pm

SlowCo wrote:Evolutiongts here on E-S has experience with the components you're looking at. See his links:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1227088

http://www.blog.electricrt.com/

https://www.electricrt.com/
Thankyou. Curious how much work it is to modify the swingarm for the QS 273. I was under the assumption the fit only needs a few extra millimeters. Sort of set on doing everything myself (partly to save funds that I can funnel back into the bike)
My build: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=84738
If I knew ES would remember account creation time, I would have waited 7 more minutes...

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Drunkskunk   100 GW

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Re: Moon's Thrasher

Post by Drunkskunk » Dec 31 2016 12:15am

If you have a max of 95 volts, that means a maximum of 22s lipo. at 60Ah, that's 4884Wh. And that's a big-ass battery. It's probably in the 80 pound range you won't likely be strapping that to a normal bike frame. 250A max discharge would be just a bit over 4C for that 60Ah pack, so any 10C or higher Lipo would be fine. I wouldn't trust lipo built with a lower C rate. that's probably $4k to $5k worth of hobbyking lipo.

I can't help you with a BMS, but I can help with a charger. I ganged two 48V Meanwell power supplies together and adjusted them for my finishing voltage at 100v. it can bring a pack 1/4 the size of yours to full power in 2 hours. It cost me around $350 to build the charger, but that included a case and monitor. the specific type of CC/CV meanwells you need are around $120 each.
Buy the ticket, take the ride.
Monster Bike:http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=38667

levleon13   1 W

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Re: Moon's Thrasher

Post by levleon13 » Dec 31 2016 5:27am

“Ignition” key: Remover after flight dongle
where can i get this ?

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MoonBassMan   1 W

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Re: Moon's Thrasher

Post by MoonBassMan » Dec 31 2016 1:32pm

levleon13 wrote:
“Ignition” key: Remover after flight dongle
where can i get this ?
http://www.rotary13b1.com/c/remove-after-flight.html
https://www.amazon.com/Rotary13B1-REMOV ... B0071EYS2E
Last edited by MoonBassMan on Dec 22 2017 1:48pm, edited 1 time in total.
My build: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=84738
If I knew ES would remember account creation time, I would have waited 7 more minutes...

levleon13   1 W

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Re: Moon's Thrasher

Post by levleon13 » Jan 09 2017 6:04pm

MoonBassMan wrote:
levleon13 wrote:
“Ignition” key: Remover after flight dongle
where can i get this ?
Google is your friend.
http://www.rotary13b1.com/c/remove-after-flight.html
https://www.amazon.com/Rotary13B1-REMOV ... B0071EYS2E

Wanted to, but didn't use LMGTFY.

sorry ive mistaken for something else . but thanks anyway :)

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MoonBassMan   1 W

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Re: Moon's Thrasher

Post by MoonBassMan » Mar 04 2017 10:01pm

Updated item list in first post. Added parts. Still new a few things left blank. I've been working on this sporadically.
My build: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=84738
If I knew ES would remember account creation time, I would have waited 7 more minutes...

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Moon's Thrasher

Post by MadRhino » Mar 05 2017 12:33am

You are building heavy, and have high requirements.

You will have to beat the 100 kmh on the flat to be able to hold 70 kmh up 20% grade, especially when pulling a trailer.
Your budget is very tight IMO. You need to either lower your requirements, or raise your budget, or recycle.

Good luck with your build. You are showing the determination that makes me think you will do good.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

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MoonBassMan   1 W

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Re: Moon's Thrasher

Post by MoonBassMan » Mar 05 2017 2:39am

MadRhino wrote:You are building heavy, and have high requirements.

You will have to beat the 100 kmh on the flat to be able to hold 70 kmh up 20% grade, especially when pulling a trailer. Your budget is very tight IMO. You need to either lower your requirements, or raise your budget, or recycle.

Good luck with your build. You are showing the determination that makes me think you will do good.
Thank you for that reference. I didn't know that. I have a local hill that I was planning to test on, after I can trust the brakes. One of the things I need to do is figure out if I can run dual disk brakes on the front and how. I am currently on track for about 4500, maybe 5000.
My build: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=84738
If I knew ES would remember account creation time, I would have waited 7 more minutes...

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Moon's Thrasher

Post by MadRhino » Mar 05 2017 6:36pm

You don't need dual front brakes. A big DD hub can regen brake very strong if you need to ease on the heat when long braking downhill. Yet, with efficient braking habits the bigger DH brakes with 8 or 9" rotors are good to stop a truck. Just avoid rubbing braking, like holding little pressure to make a long stopping distance. If you stop short and neat, they will be reliable.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

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MoonBassMan   1 W

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Re: Moon's Thrasher

Post by MoonBassMan » Mar 05 2017 6:49pm

MadRhino wrote:You don't need dual front brakes. A big DD hub can regen brake very strong if you need to ease on the heat when long braking downhill. Yet, with efficient braking habits the bigger DH brakes with 8 or 9" rotors are good to stop a truck. Just avoid rubbing braking, like holding little pressure to make a long stopping distance. If you stop short and neat, they will be reliable.
Thank you Rhino. Good tips first hand. You don't anticipate any issues stopping from around 100kph with a single front brake instead of dual?
Just tallied up my budget in an excel sheet. On track for about $4500 budget, I can post the breakdown if interested.
My build: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=84738
If I knew ES would remember account creation time, I would have waited 7 more minutes...

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Moon's Thrasher

Post by MadRhino » Mar 05 2017 7:03pm

I stop from 70 Mph shorter than any motorcycle that I have tried in my life. That is using Magura MT-7 on 9" Hope rotors. Yet my bike is lighter than you plan, but even with my GF on the bitch pad I am doing pretty good. :twisted:
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

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MoonBassMan   1 W

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Re: Moon's Thrasher

Post by MoonBassMan » Mar 05 2017 7:38pm

HAHA right on! That brings me confidence in the brakes. Recommend Magura MT-7 over Hope Tech 3 V4?
My build: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=84738
If I knew ES would remember account creation time, I would have waited 7 more minutes...

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Moon's Thrasher

Post by MadRhino » Mar 05 2017 8:16pm

After testing all the big bicycle brakes, I am using 3 and 2 of them are discontinued pretty hard to find.

Magura MT-7
Magura Gustav M
Hope M6

I also found very good the Shimano Saint, Magura MT-5, and some others that have the same pad surface. The Hope tech are doing good too but I have had bad reliability with all the Hope Tech series that I have tried.

I am using 4 different rotors
Hope and Hayes in 9" (Hope preferred for performance and lifespan, Hayes for heat dissipation because they are heavy)
Magura Venti and Hope vented rotors are also very good in 8", and have the advantage of fitting standard brackets.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

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MoonBassMan   1 W

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Re: Moon's Thrasher

Post by MoonBassMan » Mar 06 2017 3:31am

I would love to use 9in rotors if they fit. Are they compatible with my hardware? Or with little modification? Otherwise I'll have to stick with 8in(203mm)
My build: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=84738
If I knew ES would remember account creation time, I would have waited 7 more minutes...

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Moon's Thrasher

Post by MadRhino » Mar 06 2017 7:23am

You'd have to make a custom caliper adapter to go 9"
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

ecycler   10 kW

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Re: Moon's Thrasher

Post by ecycler » Mar 06 2017 4:10pm

A couple tips:

1. Unless you like knee and hip injuries you will not be pedaling much from the moto seat. I tried it for four or five rides and my hip still hurts sometimes. I had to only pedal standing until I swapped back to a bike seat!
2. I think you are trying to strap too many gizmos on there. Multiple horns and multiple headlights will mean you have a cartoonish amount of wires, switches, buttons, and all kinds of stuff hanging from your bars. Not that it can't be done, you just may want to consider simplifying a bit.
3. How are you intending to mount the 7 inch headlight? This will immediately make everyone (including cops) think 'illegal motorcycle on the road' Something about a big headlight changes the way most people look at a bike
4. Make sure to really do your homework on lipo before making a pack that large!
Any grease is better than no grease.
The best exercises are the ones you enjoy doing.
I strongly prefer vehicles without doors.

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MoonBassMan   1 W

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Re: Moon's Thrasher

Post by MoonBassMan » Mar 06 2017 11:00pm

ecycler wrote:A couple tips:

1. Unless you like knee and hip injuries you will not be pedaling much from the moto seat. I tried it for four or five rides and my hip still hurts sometimes. I had to only pedal standing until I swapped back to a bike seat!
2. I think you are trying to strap too many gizmos on there. Multiple horns and multiple headlights will mean you have a cartoonish amount of wires, switches, buttons, and all kinds of stuff hanging from your bars. Not that it can't be done, you just may want to consider simplifying a bit.
3. How are you intending to mount the 7 inch headlight? This will immediately make everyone (including cops) think 'illegal motorcycle on the road' Something about a big headlight changes the way most people look at a bike
4. Make sure to really do your homework on lipo before making a pack that large!
I appreciate the critique.
1) Plan to get both moto seat and traditional bicycle style seat for that reason. I'd like to test both and see how my personal geometry fits. How did you hurt yourself from the moto seat? Though I feel leaning towards the bicycle seat may be better.
2) I was thinking about this the other day. Thank you for the perspective.
3) Was going to fabricate a metal bracket & mount to the forks so the light turns with the bars. Its the same aftermarket light harleys or jeeps use. I was thinking the bigger, the brighter, the better to see me and not get hit. Had not considered it from the other angle.
4) Thank you for the warning. I am a curiosity driven, compulsive researcher. Any lesser known do's and don't that apply to ebike building?
My build: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=84738
If I knew ES would remember account creation time, I would have waited 7 more minutes...

ecycler   10 kW

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Re: Moon's Thrasher

Post by ecycler » Mar 07 2017 12:22am

MoonBassMan wrote:
ecycler wrote:A couple tips:

1. Unless you like knee and hip injuries you will not be pedaling much from the moto seat. I tried it for four or five rides and my hip still hurts sometimes. I had to only pedal standing until I swapped back to a bike seat!
2. I think you are trying to strap too many gizmos on there. Multiple horns and multiple headlights will mean you have a cartoonish amount of wires, switches, buttons, and all kinds of stuff hanging from your bars. Not that it can't be done, you just may want to consider simplifying a bit.
3. How are you intending to mount the 7 inch headlight? This will immediately make everyone (including cops) think 'illegal motorcycle on the road' Something about a big headlight changes the way most people look at a bike
4. Make sure to really do your homework on lipo before making a pack that large!
I appreciate the critique.
1) Plan to get both moto seat and traditional bicycle style seat for that reason. I'd like to test both and see how my personal geometry fits. How did you hurt yourself from the moto seat? Though I feel leaning towards the bicycle seat may be better.

Code: Select all

To condense a very long story, I ended up having to pedal the bike without power for several miles through a hilly area after already haven ridden it a number of times.  The moto seat rides so low that the geometry is terrible for actually pedaling with any amount of resistance.  I knew it was bad for my joints and was feeling discomfort, but just needed to get to where my wife was as the weather was turning ugly very quickly and she and I had no cell reception in the area we had ventured.  I ride 2 wheels a whole lot, but pedaling one of these beasts like I did is not recommended.
2) I was thinking about this the other day. Thank you for the perspective.
3) Was going to fabricate a metal bracket & mount to the forks so the light turns with the bars. Its the same aftermarket light harleys or jeeps use. I was thinking the bigger, the brighter, the better to see me and not get hit. Had not considered it from the other angle.
4) Thank you for the warning. I am a curiosity driven, compulsive researcher. Any lesser known do's and don't that apply to ebike building?

Code: Select all

Mainly don't charge the bike where ever you would not build a very large fire.  With the amount of watt-hours you are stuffing in that thing it would almost certainly burn down a building if the battery went into thermal runaway. With the voltage you are planning to run you should know about KFF - google and learn about that.  You are doing a fairly advanced build for your first effort. I am a sportbiker too, and although this won't be nearly as fast as an R6 you will get twice as much fun out of it once you start using it as a flyweight supermotard.  :-) 
Any grease is better than no grease.
The best exercises are the ones you enjoy doing.
I strongly prefer vehicles without doors.

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MoonBassMan   1 W

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Re: Moon's Thrasher

Post by MoonBassMan » Apr 08 2017 2:46am

Updated Build Item List in first post. Changed battery configuration and a few minor details.
My build: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=84738
If I knew ES would remember account creation time, I would have waited 7 more minutes...

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MoonBassMan   1 W

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Re: Moon's Thrasher

Post by MoonBassMan » Oct 05 2017 9:53am

Motor ordered. Rims ordered. Front hub on the way. Then I can tackle the spokes. Only thing left to purchase is the Cycle Analyst, Ferrofluid, Controller, hydraulic brakes & rotors, plus connectors and wiring extras, battery last.

It's finally coming together :D

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