Illegal #EBikes

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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LockH
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Illegal #EBikes

Post by LockH » Jan 09, 2017 8:58 am

... for as far as the eyes can see. Just tweeted by New York City police. "All confiscated from the #UpperEastSide streets & sidewalks.":

Image

Image

:shock: :(

https://mobile.twitter.com/NYPD19Pct/st ... 2092834816
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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by spinningmagnets » Jan 09, 2017 9:14 am

The red flag act of 1865 (UK), limited the new steam cars to 4-MPH, and a man had to be employed to walk ahead of the vehicle a certain distance waving a red flag.

Ostensibly it was about safety, but the truth is....it was pushed through the legislature to slow the adoption of cars.

Only wealthy individuals could afford a car (which was purchased with a lump sum, rather than payments), but steam trains were booming and public transportation between cities was very profitable. Also, horse-drawn cargo and passenger commerce was profitable everywhere. Many of these entities immediately saw the competition as a threat to their livelihoods.

Who is behind limiting the use of electric bikes in New York City? The cab businesses and the subways (run by the city). Follow the money...

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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by Ykick » Jan 09, 2017 9:46 am

It looks like those are mostly delivery eBikes but it’s only a matter of time before they start in on the privates. One of my coworkers who’d bought the Schwinn Varsity I built got it stolen from his shed in a backyard and when he tried to get a report from NYPD for insurance he mentioned it was electrified and they waved him off. Said “electric bikes are illegal” and they wouldn’t even take a report.

Isn’t that nuts? It was stolen from private property, how is it illegal on private property? This place, makes my blood boil…

Over on the west side bike path, they’re using those lighted road work signs (powered by a stinky gas/oil generator, btw) to display the message: “Report electric bikes on path” I really need to grab a video of that with the generator running in the background.

Lucky for me I’m getting outta here next week, just in time. Got the trusty Cannondale Super V packed away into a RadRover carton another coworker saved for me. https://www.shipbikes.com/ will take care of the rest across country for a little under $80.

This shit is getting real now and I’m so happy my tax money will no longer support this nonsense. On the upper east side there’s a council woman who loves to H8 on eBikes. She must’ve been inconvenienced by one at some point?

How about the 7 bike riders plus 13 people walking who died in 2016 while in the 19 precinct?

http://nyc.streetsblog.org/2016/10/11/d ... t-in-2016/

Guess what, they weren’t KILLED by electric bikes…
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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by WoodlandHills » Jan 09, 2017 12:25 pm

What will happen to these confiscated ebikes? Will they be auctioned off like they do confiscated firearms, if so, it could be a good place to buy a bunch of identical ebikes for a business elsewhere. Judging from the picture, it looks like there are several identical tailights as well as a few identical grips/handlebars which imply identical bikes. I assume you just have to commit to removing them from the city....... :?:

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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by arkmundi » Jan 09, 2017 1:07 pm

Ykick wrote:Isn’t that nuts? It was stolen from private property, how is it illegal on private property? This place, makes my blood boil…
Ditto that! Revolutions take time. FYI, its complaints by drivers stuck in traffic seeing these eBikes zip by and are irked. But also the delivery guy ignore a lot of the traffic rules & regs, not waiting for light changes, driving between cars, etc. We don't have the problem where I live, yet, but if we did and the cops were too tough, I'd be showing up at City Council meetings protesting. The status quo of car driving in urban centers needs to be completely eliminated. Its car driving that is the obvious nuisance. If you look at places like Shanghai, where bikes, eBikes, scooters are the majority vehicle, the traffic flows rather smoothly, though the roads are quite crowded. NYC needs to innovate.

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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by Izits » Jan 09, 2017 1:12 pm

spinningmagnets wrote:... Who is behind limiting the use of electric bikes in New York City? The cab businesses and the subways (run by the city). Follow the money...
This is a typical example of how government power is always abused in some way. Because it's cheaper to buy politicians than to compete in a free market. The only real solution is to keep government size and power to zero or a bare minimum.
The only enemy of the electric bicycle community is the government. Think about it. Who bans or restricts your use of electric bikes, other than the government? Smaller Government = More Freedom.

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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by hypertoric_amplituhedron » Jan 09, 2017 1:23 pm

spinningmagnets wrote:Who is behind limiting the use of electric bikes in New York City? The cab businesses and the subways (run by the city). Follow the money...
Yep, 100% right on with that, man. Those taxi cab tokens are an awful lot of money for the city, especially when accumulated over thousands of drivers. Not to mention the bus and subway fares over millions of passengers.

Now, if the city was smart about it, they'd see a real future in ebikes. They could be the ones who invest in them ahead of time, and be well prepared for the boom. The city is halfway there with ride share programs. They've stopped short of putting motors on them. But, I think 10~15 years will be enough time to see a change, nearly everywhere.

Electric assist bikes are popping up in many bike shops down here in FL. Mostly at your bigger Trek and Specialized dealers, because of the price.
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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by Green Machine » Jan 09, 2017 1:35 pm

spinningmagnets wrote: Who is behind limiting the use of electric bikes in New York City? The cab businesses and the subways (run by the city). Follow the money...
From what i know about the ebike business now i would suspect someone (in a nearby state) felt threatened by one of the biggest most respected ebike retailers in the USA NYCE wheels and started calling in to the police "illegal" ebikes.

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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by MadRhino » Jan 09, 2017 2:11 pm

Lucky here, the policy is to favor the spread of electric vehicles. So they are very tolerant with ebikes, while they keep busy testing the noise of motorcycles. Every few years, new laws are restricting the use of motorcycles and raise the cost of licensing/insuring... As a result, powerful ebikes are getting popular.

Electric cars are also favored, with subventions and legislation. Yet the electric cars are not spreading that fast. I guess that gas is still too cheap for people to change their habits. Some northern Europe countries started to raise the tax on gassers, that directly applies as a rebate on EV. That might be the solution, with carbon emissions tax that will also spread sooner or later.
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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by amberwolf » Jan 09, 2017 2:59 pm

If it's a taxi/cab company thing, then what are they doing about Uber and similar services?

Are they requiring anyone that wants to drive for Uber to buy a token? If so, how do they do it, as I had thought the total number of such tokens were extremely limited?

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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by Johnez » Jan 09, 2017 4:17 pm

A place like New York City is exactly where ebikes should thrive. Wake up New York....

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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by Sunder » Jan 09, 2017 4:49 pm

My understanding is that they were banned in NYC due to accidents caused by reckless delivery drivers, and mostly users who didn't obey the federal limits of 750w. Could have been just the excuse they needed.

Anyway, I'm surprised they could confiscate an eBike that was simply parked. Australia can only confiscate the worst category of "illegal" goods. E.g.:

Always Illegal: E.g. Drugs, child porn - can be confiscated on the spot
Illegal when used with intent: E.g. guns/lock picks - cannot be confiscated unless in connection on suspicion of a crime
Non-compliant - E.g. 10kw ebikes, illegally modified cars - can only be impounded by court order.

You would think that these bikes would always fall into the last category.
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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by WoodlandHills » Jan 09, 2017 5:09 pm

hypertoric_amplituhedron wrote:
spinningmagnets wrote:Who is behind limiting the use of electric bikes in New York City? The cab businesses and the subways (run by the city). Follow the money...
Yep, 100% right on with that, man. Those taxi cab tokens are an awful lot of money for the city, especially when accumulated over thousands of drivers. Not to mention the bus and subway fares over millions of passengers.

Now, if the city was smart about it, they'd see a real future in ebikes. They could be the ones who invest in them ahead of time, and be well prepared for the boom. The city is halfway there with ride share programs. They've stopped short of putting motors on them. But, I think 10~15 years will be enough time to see a change, nearly everywhere.

Electric assist bikes are popping up in many bike shops down here in FL. Mostly at your bigger Trek and Specialized dealers, because of the price.
I thought the value/price of a NYC cab medallion had collapsed in recent years due to Uber and Lyft.........?

http://www.odwyerpr.com/story/public/64 ... -half.html

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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by WoodlandHills » Jan 09, 2017 5:15 pm

amberwolf wrote:If it's a taxi/cab company thing, then what are they doing about Uber and similar services?

Are they requiring anyone that wants to drive for Uber to buy a token? If so, how do they do it, as I had thought the total number of such tokens were extremely limited?
Just everywhere else they have done business, Uber ignores all laws and regulations that might restrict them. Medallions only apply to actual metered, legal cabs and were a way to increase profits by restricting the total number of yellow vehicles on the streets.

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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by Ykick » Jan 09, 2017 5:18 pm

I'd like to see the report of any person killed by an eBike collision in all of NY state?

This is simply disgusting NYPD tweets this as some sort of "accomplishment". And reassuring to see the overwhelming backlash of comments about this ridiculous waste of department resources. Confiscating eBikes, GMAFB…
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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by spinningmagnets » Jan 09, 2017 6:18 pm

I've read that the "concerns" that had the strongest effect was the anti-ebike PR about food delivery services "causing accidents". Though it may be true that there are legitimate cases of an ebike being involved in a car crash...bicycle messengers are the most insane wild-eyed bicyclists, and they ride just as fast as ebikes.

For that matter, automobiles continue to be involved in accidents, and yet they are in no danger of being banned.

I believe they would have had better long term success if the state required moped licensing and insurance. Doing that would slow ebike adoption, but still allow it for those willing to pay the state a little bit more...

California has a pedelec 28-MPH limit, and I find that to be reasonable (IMHO), and Oregon allows 1,000W, and...neither of them have experienced a collapsed society.

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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by LockH » Jan 09, 2017 6:28 pm

Canada here...

When the Canadian Federal government studies ebikes, their 2001 report on their efforts:
http://files.meetup.com/1468133/Electri ... Report.pdf

(BTW. "electrically propelled bicycles (EPBs) and electrically assisted bicycles (EAB)")

... mentioned the word "safety" fifteen times.

Stuff like:
The questionnaire answers were also used to determine how safe the cyclists felt on e-bikes as compared to conventional bicycles. It was found that 85 percent of the cyclists who had ridden EPBs and 83 percent of those who had ridden EABs felt as safe as they did on conventional bicycles
... and:
Cyclists in both cases, therefore, felt they had firm control of their bicycles and did not feel any particular concern for their safety
And on and on. So the Feds legalized `em (500 watts... continuous).

OTOH... recent reports from Israel... not exactly glowing:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 8#p1254288
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by amberwolf » Jan 09, 2017 6:36 pm

Sunder wrote:My understanding is that they were banned in NYC due to accidents caused by reckless delivery drivers, and mostly users who didn't obey the federal limits of 750w.
There is no federal limit of 750w except for what manufacturers can sell as a low-speed electric bike, via the CPSC regulations about them.

It's up to the states to do limiting if they wish, or defining what category of vehicle (if any) they belong to.

Might be different in Australia, but that's how it is in the USA.

If a manufacturer ignores or otherwise violates the CPSC, it is not up to the cities or states to deal with it, it is a federal matter, and the local police would not have any jurisdiction over the bikes in question. They would have to call in whatever federal enforcement that applies, and wait for them to do whatever they do--but that would be at teh manufacturer level, and not at the individual buyer/user level.

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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by Ykick » Jan 09, 2017 6:41 pm

Where are the reports of all these "accidents" by NYC delivery riders?

And btw, not that it really matters regarding the "legality" but most of those eBikes are actually pretty close to 750W. Low C Rate battery packs.
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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by spinningmagnets » Jan 09, 2017 7:36 pm

Once you develop a healthy set of thighs, you don't need any gears in flat Manhattan. Therefore...many of the bike messengers have a couple cheap single-speed bikes. The police don't have any cause to confiscate them, maybe just write a citation for blowing through a stop sign. Even if you do steal a messenger fixie (or its damaged in a crash), you or your crew will have a cheap spare.

An ebike will be expensive, so confiscation is a very effective deterrent. Likely auctioned off to a Web bidder in other states.

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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by wineboyrider » Jan 09, 2017 8:22 pm

Wow. :x
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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by Ianhill » Jan 09, 2017 9:08 pm

Job well done NYPD that's really a big issue that we see as there's so many deaths from ebikes, What a nanny state up the kilowatts and leave them in the dust not taking my rig, There's much more pressing issues with transport like 1000hp+ illegal street races where innocent people do get hurt.
Theres a big speed campaign all over UK, I've been fined 3 times in two months, nearly £400 and i have 6 points, but all three occasions added up I was 9mph over the limit and my tyre broke a white line into a bus lane to allow an ambulance through fined me, I've never crashed or hurt anyone, yet at night when the street racing starts upto 100mph+ in 30zones there's no camera vans or police they scared of true crime just gather money from the hurd.

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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by aroundqube » Jan 09, 2017 9:43 pm

Hmmm... This story, and the Upper East Side reference has a familiar ring to it ; https://www.electricbike.com/ebike-illegal/

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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by markz » Jan 09, 2017 10:37 pm

NY is crazy man.

Another reason to go ultra stealthy.

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Re: Illegal #EBikes

Post by neptronix » Jan 10, 2017 3:54 am

Grand theft ebike is not a crime when they do it..
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