“FOLKVÄNLIG” — IKEA Electric Bike

Was news back in 2014:
https://cleantechnica.com/2014/05/21/folkvanlig-ikea-electric-bike/

Word yesterday from Sweden:

IKEA's new, foldable electric bike launches tomorrow. 36V, EU legal power train, but at a really great price. Looks pretty nice too, I think.

Click to expand...

... and back in 2014 they said:

Will you have to assemble the whole thing yourself like all the other Ikea stuff?

Where's the battery?

? , If so it would not be much assembly.

Battery looks to be just under the seat , on the seat tube. They say 36 volts, and by the size of the pack looks to be around a 5 amp hour pack.

At $ 750 U.S. Dollars , if IKEA does import them to the States they will sell , by large numbers. And soon be available used for $ 500 or so shortly thereafter.
as the case with most any bike sold at Any, Big Box Store.

fechter said:

Will you have to assemble the whole thing yourself like all the other Ikea stuff?

Where's the battery?

Click to expand...

ok, let me try to increase IKEA sales

- good value for this money:
- disk brakes, geared rear hub motor doesn't warm up during steep ascend - I think it can take higher voltage
- it is possible for user to change wheel diameter in the configurator (manual is included how to do this) but that will render the speed inaccurate and then unfortunately also the speed limit will not be controlled as required by law. So you should not do this in EU.
- even if you remove the speed limit, in this 10s3p config the motor (geared) maxes out around 25-30km/h
- computer is similar to bafang 965 but not the same. Has backlight.

controller is integrated in battery holder and has a very small heatsink. It also gets barely warm during steep ascend.

charger is 1.35A / 6 hours for the 8.7Ah battery. Battery weighs 1.95kg, and can be locked, unlocked, and very easily removed and carried in the backpack.

Overall - very good buy for the money, I don't think you can get a better deal for this price vs. value. Great bike for commuting.

Of course this bike is not for the mountain speed demons that you are - but I think with some tweaking of the battery & controller the motor could give more power output if one wants.

ask if you want to know more.

Economics force this to be the biggest piece of shit ever:

Too slow and not enough battery to be useful as an ebike. 36v 5 Ah battery and a "legal" powertrain...sure sounds fun, and really useful!

Too expensive, too heavy, and too little value for money to be useful as a pedal bike.

flat tire said:

Economics force this to be the biggest piece of shit ever:

Too slow and not enough battery to be useful as an ebike. 36v 5 Ah battery and a "legal" powertrain...sure sounds fun, and really useful!

Too expensive, too heavy, and too little value for money to be useful as a pedal bike.

Click to expand...

Battery is 8.7Ah.

Too slow for whom? I think it is currently unbeatable value buy for the target consumer (non enthusiastic commuter or occasional pedaller with <=25km/h legal limit).

Can you propose another ebike for 700EUR which has better value/weight/price in your opinion? When I was evaluating building or buying similar these were my figures: power+drivetrain 300€, battery 200€, bicycle to be converted 300€ + 20mhrs work.

The issue isn't quite like you frame it. With the price of current technology it's not really possible to build a good ebike for 700 euros, even if you get the bicycle for free. This is a bicycle + e components + retail price inflation...you do the math. In other words, this product is targeted at people who don't know their head from their ass and have 700 euros to waste. It is a terrible value, and far from an acceptable solution.

As far as what a satisfactory ebike should deliver:

1) Good acceleration...basically, you need several KW output power
2) Reasonable top speed--this varies widely but in my opinion 35 MPH is a safe minimum, otherwise you have issues with traffic and taking forever to get places. I'm aware this is illegal, but NOBODY is going to use ebikes if they're restricted to 20, that's really stupid. 3 months of training on a road bike and you can average that on flat ground pedaling under human power.
3) Good battery capacity. 36v @ 8.7Ah (or whatever) does not constitute a good battery capacity unless you're riding this thing slower than your average fit cyclist could pedal.

I wouldn't recommend an ebike to anyone unless they're willing to build it themselves and spend a good chunk of change. The only alternative is to spend several thousand USD on a decent premade ebike.

flat tire said:

The issue isn't quite like you frame it. With the price of current technology it's not really possible to build a good ebike for 700 euros, even if you get the bicycle for free. This is a bicycle + e components + retail price inflation...you do the math. In other words, this product is targeted at people who don't know their head from their ass and have 700 euros to waste. It is a terrible value, and far from an acceptable solution.

As far as what a satisfactory ebike should deliver:

1) Good acceleration...basically, you need several KW output power
2) Reasonable top speed--this varies widely but in my opinion 35 MPH is a safe minimum, otherwise you have issues with traffic and taking forever to get places. I'm aware this is illegal, but NOBODY is going to use ebikes if they're restricted to 20, that's really stupid. 3 months of training on a road bike and you can average that on flat ground pedaling under human power.
3) Good battery capacity. 36v @ 8.7Ah (or whatever) does not constitute a good battery capacity unless you're riding this thing slower than your average fit cyclist could pedal.

I wouldn't recommend an ebike to anyone unless they're willing to build it themselves and spend a good chunk of change. The only alternative is to spend several thousand USD on a decent premade ebike.

Click to expand...

I can agree that for myself personally I would/am going with your proposal and want acceleration, range and torque that feel good. I am passionate about this. I think you are too.

However imagine a 50 year old commuter doing 10km daily. He/she will be quite happy with cheap turnkey solution such as this. And this is the actual feedback which I got for this product. It in fact does deliver what is needed from it. Ease the pedalling a bit. Reduce sweating during commute and uphill effort. The actual feedback which I got was and I quote "this is great". This person would have no use from 3kW of power and would consider it too much/fast/dangerous. I would not even allow this person to use 3kW. This person will not be riding over 20-25mph in any case, even downhill. What would you recommend for someone who needs 15km range, and won't do more than 20mph and will ride on asphalt only? I don't see anything comparable to this bike at this price. Yes for you perhaps this is a p* of s*, but not for everybody as I quoted actual feedback.

Perhaps this Ikea bike is not for you or for me but we do not represent the entire customer base. We here represent probably less than few percent of the total ebike market. I am quite happy that bikes like this are pushing mainstream, that will bring benefits to enthusiasts too in eased legal restrictions, cheaper technology, batteries... all this is already happening. Just recently in Europe we got legal limit upped to 1kW (moped class 2). We are getting good 18650s for 3$ now, it used to be 10$ few years back.

I just bought this bike. But of course I want to make it faster.
When I change wheel diameter and or the speed limiter, nothing g happens. I don't feel any increase in speed.

Is there something else that stops the motor at 25 km/h?

Like the bike as a bike. Feels sturdy and solid.

Niklas Axén

nils_flowers said:

I just bought this bike. But of course I want to make it faster.
When I change wheel diameter and or the speed limiter, nothing g happens. I don't feel any increase in speed.

Is there something else that stops the motor at 25 km/h?

Like the bike as a bike. Feels sturdy and solid.

Niklas Axén

Click to expand...

When the speed is limited at 25km/h you can feel that the motor stopped asissting when you reach 25km/h. But once you change the diameter, the motor continues to work but due to increased rolling & wind & friction resistance I dont think it can go much more than 25kmh.

To increase the max speed you could add a few batteries, it is 10s3p now, so you could add more cells or rearrange for 13s2p (but those would have to be high drain cells, such as 30Q or VTC5). I have not opened the battery case yet - perhaps more cells can fit in. If not, then would have to be externalized or another battery case. I personally want to keep this bike strictly legal so I will not modify mine, but I can weld a few more cells onto your pack if you happen to be in sthlm. The cells are probably panasonic PF 2900mAh. There is always the case that controller will die if you increase the voltage then you would need to change FETs or use a custom controller.

The bike will be strongly current limited and with the small motor that's not a bad idea. You can probably help it out a little with a new, much higher voltage battery and new controller but you'll get diminishing returns and at that point you'll start looking at hub motors which are powerful enough that the controller and battery you just bought are inadequate. And at that point you correct that and get the new hub motor, you'll be going fast enough that you'll notice other inadequacies and start looking to spend more.

Bike mods are a slippery slope. If you want to modify that bike for 20 MPH (32kph) and long range without having to change the motor, that is probably a good goal. Any more and you'll get into the above situation fast.

yep, if you want just a little bit more speed, perhaps 9 more cells will make it a 48V battery, if the controller will take it, it'll go a bit faster.
But if you end up wanting more and more then you are better off starting with new frame+fork+battery+motor+ESC that can handle it.

Thanks for all the answers. I will try to change the wheel diameter again.
There's also a speed limiter set at 25km/h. That can be changed up to 41km/h. But I don't think it's doing anything. I set it to 15km/h and it still went up to 25. Feels like the settings aren't aktiv.
Haven't opened the battery, only the controlbox. The battery mod feels a little to much for me, but we'll see.

nils_flowers said:

Thanks for all the answers. I will try to change the wheel diameter again.
There's also a speed limiter set at 25km/h. That can be changed up to 41km/h. But I don't think it's doing anything. I set it to 15km/h and it still went up to 25. Feels like the settings aren't aktiv.
Haven't opened the battery, only the controlbox. The battery mod feels a little to much for me, but we'll see.

Click to expand...

I feel the motor/controller maxes out around 25km/h with 36V anyway so removing the limit does not do anything much. As I said if you want few more cells there and happen to be in sthlm I can weld them for free, no probs (I don't have the 18650PF cells though, only GA and NCR18650B). If you open the battery please post pictures of the insides.

Ok, thanks. Maybe​ I will try adding batterys.
I live in Uppsala so I will try to do it myself.
Where do you buy batterys?

/Niklas

nils_flowers said:

Ok, thanks. Maybe​ I will try adding batterys.
I live in Uppsala so I will try to do it myself.
Where do you buy batterys?

/Niklas

Click to expand...

In large quantity tumich is a good buy. Otherwise nkon.nl, fasttech, banggood, gearbest. NOT ebay, too many fakes there. I'm in Sollentuna FWIW and have a spot welder. Beware though, if you raise the voltage there is a chance that controller or something else is fried. But if it does it anway was not worth it and you would have to replace it. This is OK If you want just a bit more speed - be careful not to end up spending more and more until you want also a stronger frame, fork, brakes etc...

Ok, thanks.
Do you have any good mod to get past the pedal only drive?

/Niklas

nils_flowers said:

Ok, thanks.
Do you have any good mod to get past the pedal only drive?

/Niklas

Click to expand...

No, but there must be a hack for that, should be possible with arduino or similar, to generate pulses otherwise generated by sensor on your cranks.

But it's really minimal effort to get it up to speed, surely you are not that lazy I am a "regular" cyclist too and this thing does not even make my heart rate go up while cycling.

vex_zg said:

Can you propose another ebike for 700EUR which has better value/weight/price in your opinion? When I was evaluating building or buying similar these were my figures: power+drivetrain 300€, battery 200€, bicycle to be converted 300€ + 20mhrs work.

Click to expand...

Looks like the STORM skinny bike finally has some competition. At least Ikea doesn't have that ugly plastic thing in the triangle. I wonder if he ever sold many of those...

https://sondors.com/products/sondors-thin

flat tire said:

The issue isn't quite like you frame it. With the price of current technology it's not really possible to build a good ebike for 700 euros, even if you get the bicycle for free. This is a bicycle + e components + retail price inflation...you do the math. In other words, this product is targeted at people who don't know their head from their ass and have 700 euros to waste. It is a terrible value, and far from an acceptable solution.

As far as what a satisfactory ebike should deliver:

1) Good acceleration...basically, you need several KW output power
2) Reasonable top speed--this varies widely but in my opinion 35 MPH is a safe minimum, otherwise you have issues with traffic and taking forever to get places. I'm aware this is illegal, but NOBODY is going to use ebikes if they're restricted to 20, that's really stupid. 3 months of training on a road bike and you can average that on flat ground pedaling under human power.
3) Good battery capacity. 36v @ 8.7Ah (or whatever) does not constitute a good battery capacity unless you're riding this thing slower than your average fit cyclist could pedal.

I wouldn't recommend an ebike to anyone unless they're willing to build it themselves and spend a good chunk of change. The only alternative is to spend several thousand USD on a decent premade ebike.

Click to expand...

I must take issue with the idea of an ebike that 35 mph is a "safe minimum". Potential Kinetic Energy ( the amount of energy which will need to be dissipated in an accident), increases exponentially with increases in speed or weight. Bicycles are loosely regulated because the total Potential Kinetic Energy is very low for a light weight vehicle at 10-15 mph. At 35 mph and a mass of 200lbs (the combined weight of my road bike and myself) the effects of collision with a pedestrian or other rider will likely produce serious injuries and occasional fatalities.
A vehicle that goes over a certain speed and has a defined minimum mass should be regulated as a motorized vehicle with the same regulations as motor cars and motor bikes.

In most states low speed vehicles (regular bikes, golfcarts, wheelchair/personal access devices and low powered ebikes) are minimally regulated because of their low level of potential kinetic energy .
2 or 3 wheeled Vehicles that can go 35+ mph are Motorbikes and should be insured, regulated and drivers licensed regardless of method of propulsion.

The market for a vehicle with a <20mph top end at total range of 15_20miles is huge! Between Amazon, Lyft, and low speed individual vehicles the need for multiple large family vehicles is diminishing quickly,especially for urban families or couples with grown kids.

I really hope that Ikea chooses to sell them in America but, given our aggressive litigious environment, I doubt that they will.

Those are minimums for average rider enjoyment, as in everyone who gets on it won't immediately wish it goes faster, etc.

35 is an important speed here in the US as it's a common upper limit for slower streets. You're supposed to be riding on the street anyway, not on sidewalks or among pedestrians. A 20 MPH human powered crash into a pedestrian can cause plenty of problems anyway. The solution there is not to make ebikes pitifully slow. I get that the law doesn't see eye to eye with this, but a reasonable streetable speed is what makes the most sense those things aside.

Maybe there is a market for a slow ebikes, but something tells me most people who would buy those ebikes would probably be a lot happier if their <20 mph ebike with pitiful range was a little faster, more powerful, and longer range.

I do kind of like it, but wonder who it would be good for. A 36v battery on a heavy, inefficient bike seems like a hassle to me. I would rather have a light efficient bike without the electronics.

But, maybe it is good for people who want heavy Dutch style bikes? Or for people who have problems with hills?

Really, anything that goes much over 25mph is a moped and not a bike. So, while I like the 35mph idea, that is just so far behind the speed a bicycle rides that it is basically a light weigh moped.

(I commute mostly on neighborhood roads with a speed limit of 25mph. The US is clearly NOT set up for vehicles that travel in the 20-35mph speed range, but that is an entirely different subject).

chas58 said:

Really, anything that goes much over 25mph is a moped and not a bike. So, while I like the 35mph idea, that is just so far behind the speed a bicycle rides that it is basically a light weigh moped.

Click to expand...

I routinely drafted trucks / buses / suvs when I had my human powered road bike, reaching speeds in the 40s just in the course of normal riding. We also have group rides here where the peloton can cruise at 30+ under human power. And downhill bikes routinely go freeway speeds over extremely harsh terrain. So, I can't buy your argument that somehow if you put a lightweight electric powertrain on a bike and go 35, it's a moped.

nils_flowers said:

Ok, thanks.
Do you have any good mod to get past the pedal only drive?

/Niklas

Click to expand...

Hi Niklas

Don't have any answer for your specific question but I want give some experience about the 25km/h limit on an ecoride bike.
I am in Sundsvall myself and my fiancé bought an ecoride ambassador 28" ebike a few years ago.
It was strictly limited to 25km/h and did cut off power abruptly at that speed.
This was the reason I knew that it was a limit and not the motor reaching top rpm for the given battery voltage under load.
I investigated possibilities to modify the controller or similar to remove the limiter, had it disassembled several times, but it was over my ability.
Asked some questions on the uk pedelec forum, got some advice but it seemed hard to bypass the limit.

I ended up buying a new controller + display from aliexpress and redid the installation on that bike.
The result is a bike which tops out around 31-32km/h but will gradually assist less over 26-27km/h.
The riding experience is night and day better than the abrupt cut at 25km/h.
It is also a big difference in making distance on countryside roads where you ride at max speed constantly.
The new display unit is also better than the old ecoride unit.

The ecoride have a thumb throttle which is intended for assist when you walk with the bike. It assists up to 6-7km/h.
During my experiments and tries to disable the 25km/h speed limit I only managed to remove the 7km/h limiter on the thumb throttle.
So it was basically possible to ride the bike up to 25km/h with the thumbthrottle.
Not that it was much value in that.

flat tire said:

chas58 said:

Really, anything that goes much over 25mph is a moped and not a bike. So, while I like the 35mph idea, that is just so far behind the speed a bicycle rides that it is basically a light weigh moped.

Click to expand...

I routinely drafted trucks / buses / suvs when I had my human powered road bike, reaching speeds in the 40s just in the course of normal riding. We also have group rides here where the peloton can cruise at 30+ under human power. And downhill bikes routinely go freeway speeds over extremely harsh terrain. So, I can't buy your argument that somehow if you put a lightweight electric powertrain on a bike and go 35, it's a moped.

Click to expand...

Well I guess you are right and laws in most western countries are wrong. You can have a motor on a kickbike and go 100km/h (60mph) and it will still be a kickbike.
But under the law it needs to be classified as something that makes sense, and that will not be "60mph toy that you are allowed to ride on public roads".

A velomobile can reach even higher speeds unassisted, and one could certainly argue that the law is frocked up in some areas. For example when it comes to ebikes.
But claiming that your non human driven 35mph bike is not a moped is just stupid. Because it is, or might even be a motorcycle depending on country.
It is the law that defines what a particular vehicle is.

Here in Sweden the law defines 2types of mopeds. Class 1 and class 2.
Class one is the so called EU moped, with license plate allowed to go 45km/h. (27-28mph) Needs registration + insurance.
Class two is 25km/h limited mopeds and 1000w ebikes limited to 25km/h. (They need to have a basic insurance but need no license plate)
Can not be amateur built as they need some manufacturer certificates to be valid for the insurance. Which sucks for innovation and environmental friendly transportation solutions.

Then there are older mopeds that went under the 30km/h limit. They are still legal but no new vehicles can fall under this category.