Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by amberwolf » Apr 15, 2017 2:16 am

This is the current documents page for the proposed AZ bill
https://apps.azleg.gov/BillStatus/BillOverview/69054

Mostly it seems to mix operator/rider requirements with manufacturer requirements, and doesn't even mention DIY or kit stuff at all.

It does completely and definitely separate gas bikes from electric ones, and leaves the gas bikes with the same definitions and limits they had before, while enabling electric ones to potentially be better except for the new power limit, AFAICT.

Personally, I'd rather they just leave it alone, but at least it's not as bad as it could be, depending on what actually ends up passing.

The relevant legal definition text:
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/53leg/1R/bills/SB1273P.htm
24. "ELECTRIC BICYCLE" MEANS A BICYCLE OR TRICYCLE THAT IS EQUIPPED WITH FULLY OPERABLE PEDALS AND AN ELECTRIC MOTOR OF LESS THAN SEVEN HUNDRED FIFTY WATTS AND THAT MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS OF ONE OF THE FOLLOWING CLASSES:
(a) "CLASS 1 ELECTRIC BICYCLE" MEANS A BICYCLE THAT IS EQUIPPED WITH AN ELECTRIC MOTOR THAT PROVIDES ASSISTANCE ONLY WHEN THE RIDER IS PEDALING AND THAT CEASES TO PROVIDE ASSISTANCE WHEN THE BICYCLE REACHES THE SPEED OF TWENTY MILES PER HOUR.
(b) "CLASS 2 ELECTRIC BICYCLE" MEANS A BICYCLE THAT IS EQUIPPED WITH AN ELECTRIC MOTOR THAT MAY BE USED EXCLUSIVELY TO PROPEL THE BICYCLE AND THAT IS NOT CAPABLE OF PROVIDING ASSISTANCE WHEN THE BICYCLE REACHES THE SPEED OF TWENTY MILES PER HOUR.
(c) "CLASS 3 ELECTRIC BICYCLE" MEANS A BICYCLE THAT IS EQUIPPED WITH AN ELECTRIC MOTOR THAT PROVIDES ASSISTANCE ONLY WHEN THE RIDER IS PEDALING AND THAT CEASES TO PROVIDE ASSISTANCE WHEN THE BICYCLE REACHES THE SPEED OF TWENTY‑EIGHT MILES PER HOUR.
28-819. Electric bicycles
A. AN OPERATOR OF AN ELECTRIC BICYCLE IS GRANTED ALL THE RIGHTS AND PRIVILEGES AND IS SUBJECT TO ALL OF THE DUTIES OF A PERSON RIDING A BICYCLE.
B. AN ELECTRIC BICYCLE IS NOT SUBJECT TO THE PROVISIONS OF THIS TITLE RELATING TO CERTIFICATES OF TITLE, REGISTRATION, VEHICLE LICENSE TAX, DRIVER LICENSES OR VEHICLE INSURANCE.
C. BEGINNING JANUARY 1, 2018, MANUFACTURERS AND DISTRIBUTORS OF ELECTRIC BICYCLES SHALL APPLY A LABEL THAT IS PERMANENTLY AFFIXED, IN A PROMINENT LOCATION, TO EACH ELECTRIC BICYCLE. THE LABEL SHALL CONTAIN THE CLASSIFICATION NUMBER, TOP ASSISTED SPEED AND MOTOR WATTAGE OF THE ELECTRIC BICYCLE AND SHALL BE PRINTED IN AT LEAST NINE‑POINT BOLD TYPE.
D. A PERSON MAY NOT TAMPER WITH OR MODIFY AN ELECTRIC BICYCLE TO CHANGE THE MOTOR-POWERED SPEED CAPABILITY OF THE ELECTRIC BICYCLE UNLESS THE PERSON REPLACES THE LABEL PRESCRIBED IN SUBSECTION C OF THIS SECTION WITH A NEW LABEL INDICATING THE CLASSIFICATION NUMBER.
E. AN ELECTRIC BICYCLE SHALL COMPLY WITH THE EQUIPMENT AND MANUFACTURING REQUIREMENTS FOR BICYCLES UNDER 16 CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS PART 1512.
F. A CLASS 2 ELECTRIC BICYCLE SHALL OPERATE SO THAT THE ELECTRIC MOTOR IS DISENGAGED OR CEASES TO FUNCTION WHEN THE BRAKES ARE APPLIED. A CLASS 1 AND CLASS 3 ELECTRIC BICYCLE SHALL OPERATE SO THAT THE ELECTRIC MOTOR IS DISENGAGED THROUGH A MECHANISM THAT, WHEN THE RIDER STOPS PEDALING, THE ELECTRIC MOTOR WILL DISENGAGE OR CEASE TO FUNCTION.
G. A CLASS 1 ELECTRIC BICYCLE OR A CLASS 2 ELECTRIC BICYCLE MAY BE USED IN ALL PLACES WHERE BICYCLES ARE PERMITTED TO TRAVEL, INCLUDING BICYCLE AND MULTIUSE PATHS. A LOCAL AUTHORITY OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE HAVING JURISDICTION OVER A PATH MAY PROHIBIT THE OPERATION OF A CLASS 1 ELECTRIC BICYCLE OR CLASS 2 ELECTRIC BICYCLE ON A BICYCLE PATH.
H. A CLASS 3 ELECTRIC BICYCLE MAY NOT BE OPERATED ON A BICYCLE OR MULTIUSE PATH UNLESS IT IS WITHIN OR ADJACENT TO A HIGHWAY OR ROADWAY OR UNLESS THE LOCAL AUTHORITY OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE HAVING JURISDICTION OVER THE PATH ALLOWS THE OPERATION.
I. A CLASS 3 ELECTRIC BICYCLE IS SUBJECT TO THE FOLLOWING:
1. A PERSON WHO IS UNDER SIXTEEN YEARS OF AGE MAY NOT OPERATE A CLASS 3 ELECTRIC BICYCLE BUT MAY RIDE AS A PASSENGER ON A CLASS 3 ELECTRIC BICYCLE THAT IS DESIGNED TO ACCOMMODATE PASSENGERS.
2. AN OPERATOR OF AND ANY PASSENGER ON A CLASS 3 ELECTRIC BICYCLE SHALL WEAR A PROPERLY FITTED AND FASTENED BICYCLE HELMET THAT MEETS THE STANDARDS PROVIDED BY EITHER THE UNITED STATES CONSUMER PRODUCT SAFETY COMMISSION OR THE AMERICAN SOCIETY FOR TESTING AND MATERIALS.
3. A CLASS 3 ELECTRIC BICYCLE MUST BE EQUIPPED WITH A SPEEDOMETER THAT DISPLAYS THE SPEED THE BICYCLE IS TRAVELING IN MILES PER HOUR.


So the three big changes from the previous laws are:

--that there would be a power limit of 750W (which would make it dangerous for my purposes, as it would make most car drivers try to run me over as they waited behind me for a minute or more as I got up to the 20MPH speed).

--Like California, there will be 3 classes, with the second being basically what I do now except for the power limit, and the third allowing faster speed up to 28mph vs 20mph, but requiring PAS which the second does not. (and class 3 not allowed on bike paths / MUTs, while the second is). There's an add-on (dunno if it's in the final) that would require a driver's license (any class) to be able to operate a class 3 (only).

--that a *bicycle* helmet would be required for class 3 (not for the others) when it hasn't been required for bikes at all before. A motorcycle helmet would be illegal because it is not a bicycle helmet, even though it is actually better protection. I doubt they'd quibble about it though, as long as a helmet was worn.

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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by amberwolf » Apr 15, 2017 2:45 am

There is a bit about meeting federal CFRs (see link below)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/16/part-1512
those have an exception:
(e)One-of-a-kind bicycle means a bicycle that is uniquely constructed to the order of an individual consumer other than by assembly of stock or production parts.
and
§ 1512.1 Scope.
This part sets forth the requirements for a bicycle as defined in § 1512.2(a) (except a bicycle that is a “track bicycle” or a “one-of-a-kind bicycle” as defined in § 1512.2 (d) and (e)) which is not a banned article under § 1500.18(a)(12) of this chapter.
which appears to mean that stuff like my bikes don't have to meet the federal CFR.

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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by tiny_n_terrible » Apr 15, 2017 6:59 am

Thank You for posting the latest AZ version of its Electric motorized bicycle law.
I was looking for the latest version .
So a Bicycle Helmet, New Labels, and a Pas Sensor on my front hubmotor. Can Do!


Who sells labels? I need many 350 watt superChinesechicken labels.
And one 750 watt superChinesechicken label.

I believe that I can claim all of the classes. By listing them on the sticker. And shift between all three of them electrically. As well as the front and rear motors.

The city I live in just added hundreds of bike lanes by marking, a two foot white line, bicycle lane on the extreme right of the existing roadway.
I would NOT ride a motorized bicycle in Tucson
When I first got into motorized bicycling a single builder in Tucson outraged every law enforcement officer ,Judge , and the Tucson city council by building bicycle framed ICE motorcycles and riding them at extremely high speeds on the Tucson roads.
The fines finally drove him out of Motorized bicycling. It got so bad that if you rode a motorized bicycle at 21 mph in the Tucson city limits it would be confiscated even if the ICE motor was NOT running at the time.


1st Edit added labels And stuff
Last edited by tiny_n_terrible on Apr 15, 2017 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by Hwy89 » Apr 15, 2017 8:29 am

Thanks AW for bringing this up. I'm currently out of state and would have missed it otherwise. It looks very similar to California's law and I like that it allows class 1 and 2 ebikes to go wherever other bikes can go. I personally have no problem with the speed restrictions but wish they would eliminate the watt limits. It makes no sense to limit power, it is confusing and uninforceable.
It turns out that I know two of the cosponsers so I might try to contact them and ask how they think the police will be able to enforce the 750 watt rule.

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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by motomech » Apr 15, 2017 8:45 am

I rather doubt that Tucson would approve motors of any type or rating on their multi-use paths.
In other words, nothing would change in regards to the multi-use paths.
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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by Hwy89 » Apr 15, 2017 9:04 am

I've ridden trails in ten different states in the last year. The west coast, New England, the Gulf coast, Texas, Prescott and Flagstaff but never in Tucson. I ignore the signage, keep peddeling, mind my manners and have never been hassled. I guess it helps to be old enough to look like you need the motor.

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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by amberwolf » Apr 15, 2017 2:11 pm

FWIW, I'd recommend not asking anyone about the power enforcement while they're making the law, because then theywill probably start considering ways to enforce it and/or make it even more restrictive, and/or set aside a budget to enforce it, because if someone asks about it, it means there might be a problem with it, and we can't have that, can we? :/






Keep in mind that AFAICT the bill text above is not a final voted-in version of the bill, just the original proposed bill text. I can't tell how to see what the currently-discussed-in house/senate version is.

Presently we are still subject to the pre-existing rules, which basically mean 3 wheels or less at least 16" or bigger, permanent seat, operated less than 20MPH, at least one brake capable of skidding the vehicle (conditions not stated).



The watt limit is not easily road-testable without special equipment they'd probably have to dedicate a vehicle (or trailer) to. It's also not something that can be easily seen to be suspected as a violation. So it's not likely to be enforced, which is just one more reason to not need it.


There's no safe way for me to operate my cargo bikes/trikes on the road without more power than that, because I can't help by pedalling on the startups enough to make any real difference (hurts too much; it's like a normal person (but with sand inside their knee joints) climbing stairs without rails carrying at least several hundred pounds).

If I can't quickly (4-5 seconds at most, even that is too long for some drivers to wait) reach 20MPH from a stop, the drivers of vehicles waiting behind me will become impatient enough to either be running right up on my tail end, making it unsafe or impossible to brake or maneuver if I need to. Or they will zoom around me so close they may even hit my mirror, or on larger SUV and up sized vehicles their bowshock or tail end vacuum will push or pull me out of my lane position, either forcing me to the curb or pulling me left into the way of the next vehicle that's passing too close (many don't care about the 3-foot rule, or the use-next-lane-if-unsafe rule).

While few are willing to actually hit my large cargo bike/trike, because it might damage their vehicle, I can't know which ones are so impatient that they just don't care.

Additionally, when it is even a little windy, just to maintain nearly 20MPH the trike uses 800-900w, and in gusty winds can require twice that. If I can't maintain speed, then riding in the roads (which is really the only good option to get to most places here), even back residential streets, is unsafe. And sidewalks are not an option most places because there are too many obstacles (signs, parked cars, extremely narrow sidewalks even a pedestrian can barely fit on, trash cans, etc), or there *aren't* sidewalks, or they are used by pedestrians, and cannot be safely shared because even with normal bicycles the pedestrians will not share/move over, or they will push riders off in some areas, etc. And there are driveways everywhere, and cars do not watch for pedestrians much less cyclists, so one must come to a complete stop at any driveway before crossing it, unless it can be clearly seen there are no pedestrians, bicycles, vehicles, etc., anywhere near it. Then there are the intersections, where one must come to a complete stop even if the lights are green and a walk signal is already on, because vehciles may make a turn into the road you're crossing without signals and without being in the lane a turning vehicle should be in.


The latter two are much less likely to be a problem when street riding, becuase they can see me in the lane, and/or I have room to maneuver out of the way if someone does do something stupid like that.




So I will have to continue with the power levels I have been using.

Once the laws are finalized, I may create two setups for the trike, one for class2 and one for class3, with the appropriate label plates for each. Then change the label and setup depending on the trip I am going to take, since it is allowed for the operator to do this according to the version of the bill quoted in the OP.

There are a few instances where the 28MPH would be really useful, where I could not use a bike lane or MUT anyway for most of the long trip, and that extra speed could make it a bit less dangerous to share the road with faster vehicles passing me, as well as slightly reduce the travel time if the roads are good enough ot use the faster speed.

But for most trips I don't need anything faster than 20MPH; it's worked fine for all the years I've ridden my contraptions so far, so there's no need for anything other than a class 2 most of the time.

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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by flat tire » Apr 15, 2017 3:07 pm

That's just sad. :cry:
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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by markz » Apr 15, 2017 9:00 pm

Ways to skirt the law.....
"its a mobility device officer"
"what is your defect"
"bad leg sir"
"proceed but slow down"

You ever see those mobility scooters, frock they fly

On a serious note, I think Amberwolfs bikes would confuse the eye of authority.
Or for the regular bikes, hiding the stuff is easy. May mean you gotta go foot power speeds.

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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by flat tire » Apr 15, 2017 9:12 pm

Ways to skirt the law: have a bike as fast and powerful as you want just make sure it looks like a bicycle has pedals and most important that your eyes are constantly scanning so you can look for police officers, slow to a legal speed and start pedaling if you see one. If you do this all trouble will be avoided and as a unarmored human riding a bicycle amongst cars it's a poor idea to be anything other than hypervigilant 100% of the time.
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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by slomoshun » Apr 15, 2017 9:47 pm

Hwy89 wrote:.... and ask how they think the police will be able to enforce the 750 watt rule.
Having observed government for 70 years, I foresee big changes ahead for eBikes. As with cars they will enforce an OEM baseline. If your e-vehicle is not factory manufactured, it will require inspection and certification by the State Patrol or DMV. It will need to meet whatever specs the DOT mandates for an "eBike". If it fails, you don't get a registration tab. Riding without a tab means violation and a citation. The Cops will have little trouble recognizing offenders because of their road speed. Expect to see the 750 watt limit reduced, too. It would not surprise me if eventually the US adopted the European 250 watt standard.
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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by markz » Apr 15, 2017 10:56 pm

Doubt thats coming for a long long time.
Cont Wattage is useless without an rpm.
Its like saying well see Markz over there is a 500W human.
Well no, I am a 100W human when I am going to the store, and I am a 1000W human when I am being chased by a Grizzly.

I am quoting Justin, as bad I as quoted him.

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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by slomoshun » Apr 16, 2017 12:27 am

markz wrote:Doubt thats coming for a long long time.....
What will expedite it are speed and recklessness, and accidents that make the media. In my lifetime, just about everything fun has been controlled, taxed, or banned. Now, it's your turn. :wink: Human behavior is predictable.
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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by Robocog » Apr 17, 2017 11:49 am

Here is how it will work. You will be spotted, and disliked. They will send you to a referee station. With a fix it ticket, that will cost if lost. They will test all parameters.

There are FOUR m cops in H beach, that do only hassling mufflers and tint. They used to nail mini trucks for no bumper.

So, the best advice is, ALWAYS pedal at greater than 20. Have a LARGE mirror to spot cops in rearview.

All manufacturers should have a PANIC button, that would configure to legal at the touching. And, possibly DUMP all illegal code, with a backup. So, you test clean, then reload. Go slow around others.

I fought a cop judge corruption racket. I called it mordida, or threatening of folks, unless they pay up, like in old mexico. Kamala harris enjoined and they were RUINED.

The cops busted in my home in revenge at midnite with guns in my face. They searched my home, after saying I had NO say in their busting in. Put me in handcuffs, and told me that all my decent stuff would have to go. As I am really ill, heart failure. They lied, and said a neighbor reported me throwing a woman into walls. They said they listened to her cry for fifteen minutes.

I lived alone, and was asleep since 9. They asked WHO I had in my crawlspace, then, when I said no one, he asked again, I said JIMMY Hoffa. He said, OK smartass, now we can search further. I figured I was dead. And that was my version of this.

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I begged them not to trash the place. I was talking LOUD, and they were BEGGING me to shut up.

My point is, they will get you if they don't like you. DONT be unliked.

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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by markz » Apr 17, 2017 12:51 pm

Cog - Thats a good laugh.

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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by Triketech » Apr 17, 2017 2:57 pm

motomech wrote:I rather doubt that Tucson would approve motors of any type or rating on their multi-use paths.
In other words, nothing would change in regards to the multi-use paths.
I've spoken with a few officers and officials about this as I ride my eTrike all the time on the MUP's.

They look at quite simply; don't pose a hazard to others, and don't exceed about 15 MPH.

I didn't mention my handicap but no doubt that would be a consideration, and if I played the ADA laws would likely override the local laws. Even if they didn't a federal suit would deny any more federal funding of AZ MUP's until it was settled.

Best to ride softly and carry a big legal stick.

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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by amberwolf » Jan 09, 2018 2:21 pm

Looks like this still hasn't become law, no further action since April last year

Code: Select all

	Date 	Ayes 	Nays 	NV 	Exc 	Vac 	Action
	04/12/2017 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	RET ON CAL
Final Disposition:
Held in House


OT, an aside about quadricycles. I'd never found this before, so don't know when it was added, but there is now one form of it that's legal. Unfortunately, it appears to basically be a law written ONLY to make the ones used in some of the parks legal:

Code: Select all

40. "Motorized quadricycle" means a self-propelled motor vehicle to which all of the following apply:

(a) The vehicle is self-propelled by an emission-free electric motor and may include pedals operated by the passengers.

(b) The vehicle has at least four wheels in contact with the ground.

(c) The vehicle seats at least eight passengers, including the driver.

(d) The vehicle is operable on a flat surface using solely the electric motor without assistance from the pedals or passengers.

(e) The vehicle is a commercial motor vehicle as defined in section 28-5201.

(f) The vehicle is a limousine operating under a vehicle for hire company permit issued pursuant to section 28-9503.

(g) The vehicle is manufactured by a motor vehicle manufacturer that is licensed pursuant to chapter 10 of this title.

(h) The vehicle complies with the definition and standards for low-speed vehicles set forth in federal motor vehicle safety standard 500 and 49 Code of Federal Regulations sections 571.3(b) and 571.500, respectively.
You cannot build one yourself, and most likely none of the common bicycle quads would be legal (not made as commercial motor vehicles, etc).

and you cannot just have one for yourself unless you feel like paying limousine licensing fees, which probably also include all the stuff for taxis, and would also have to mean you're your own business, requiring all those licenses and insurances just to be able to ride it around. And it has to be huge, because it has to seat all those people even if you never carry any.


Seems pretty dumb to require all this just because it has one more wheel in contact with the ground than a regular bicycle/tricycle.

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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by wturber » Jan 09, 2018 6:29 pm

Which reminds me - I need to get that letter written to some legislators urging them to adopt something simpler and more sane.

Yes, I know. it will almost surely be a pointless exercise. Nonetheless ...

As for the Quadricycle, if you don't want to be governed by that statute, simply build a car instead.
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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by amberwolf » Jan 10, 2018 1:07 am

I think what we already have is about as simple as it gets, and they should just leave it alone. ;)

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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by wturber » Jan 10, 2018 12:10 pm

amberwolf wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 1:07 am
I think what we already have is about as simple as it gets, and they should just leave it alone. ;)
From a practical standpoint, the combination of simple and almost zero enforcement does actually work fine. From the standpoint of codifying what is reasonable, I think they should change the e-bike speed limit from 20mph to 25mph. Also, as I recall, the various rules are scattered about. You can't just go to one place in the A.R.S. to get all the pertinent information.

I think this 3 class system that is being promoted is poor law. I think they could simplify everything for street riding (this wouldn't be a good approach for dirt/natural trails) by just using speed limits.

For instance:
multi-use paths/sidewalks - speed limit = 15 mph - must yield to slower traffic.
bike lanes and paths - speed limit = 25 mph (might augment with some rules about not passing slower bikes too closely).
Streets without bike lanes speed limit = 30 mph or posted speed limit - whichever is lower.

Anything above 30 mph is a motor vehicle and needs license and registration to operate. I'd probably wrap mopeds into the whole thing as well. No power limits. Just enforce behavior/speed. The one exception is you might limit anyone without a valid driver's license to 20 mph or less.That would impact many minors and adults with DUIs and suspended/revoked licenses.

This is a simple rule set (nice round numbers) that would be relatively easy for police officers to enforce given that they have advanced speed measuring tools and extensive departmental/court experience in enforcing speed limits.
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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by markz » Jan 10, 2018 6:44 pm

They can place any law they want to, will the fuzz enforce it, they dont here.

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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by wturber » Jan 10, 2018 9:36 pm

markz wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 6:44 pm
They can place any law they want to, will the fuzz enforce it, they dont here.
Yes. There is currently very little enforcement here as well. But here's the rub. If I coast downhil on my e-bike at 30 mph I'm technically operating an unregistered and uninsured motor vehicle in the great state of Arizona. If I'm in a bike lane, I'm violating another law. Enforcement is unlikely, but in the rare instance that they do it, it will get ugly.
So I'd prefer to have sane laws and to generally abide by them.
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markz
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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by markz » Jan 10, 2018 10:28 pm

In that rare case, you lose a lot of time defending your own case, I

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dogman dan
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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by dogman dan » Jan 11, 2018 7:45 am

Well, bear in mind that if it ever does pass, it says 750w motor, not 750w controller. :twisted:

In any case, install faux pedals if needed to look class 3, and limit speed to 30 mph, and you should fly under the radar unless you are known to the cops for your political attitude, dui's, how you ride, etc. If you are that person, oh well. I have lived through that myself robocog. It taught me to stop at signs, check my turn signal bulbs, etc. I had to drive perfect for a long time.

Not sure how Tucson is with the bike trails, but I rode all over the Phoenix ones and never saw one cop on the trails. Here at home I've stood there with bicycle cops on the multi use path that bans motors, discussing e bikes. I ride closer to 15 mph on the mup's, but the bike can do 35 mph.

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wturber
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Re: Arizona Electric Bicycle Law changes (2017)

Post by wturber » Jan 11, 2018 1:11 pm

dogman dan wrote:
Jan 11, 2018 7:45 am
Well, bear in mind that if it ever does pass, it says 750w motor, not 750w controller. :twisted:
Yep. I'd buy or make a sticker that says 750W , put it on the motor, and point to it if questioned. Cops aren't going to test for wattage. That's one reason that having such technical requirements are bad law. They are impractical to enforce. Another problem is that the 750 watt limit is the result of pretty narrow thinking. It is oriented around bicycles and not vehicles like Amberwolf's tricycle. If the new law passes, the situation legally would actually improve for me. It would give me permission to go over 20mph. Yipee! OTOH, since Amberwolf operates his heavy high powered trike at 20mph or below, he's perfectly legal right now but would run into a tougher problem than me if he had to convince a cop that he's operating with only a 750 watt motor. I think he's using two motors.
dogman dan wrote:
Jan 11, 2018 7:45 am
In any case, install faux pedals if needed to look class 3, and limit speed to 30 mph, and you should fly under the radar unless you are known to the cops for your political attitude, dui's, how you ride, etc. If you are that person, oh well. I have lived through that myself robocog. It taught me to stop at signs, check my turn signal bulbs, etc. I had to drive perfect for a long time.
I'm definitely not the troublemaker type. Sure, I roll stops. But I think I obey road rules/laws (e-bike 20 mph speed limit excepted) as well as the typical motorist and certainly better than the typical cyclist. I pedal about 90% of the time. It just doesn't feel right not to be pedaling and I like getting the exercise. But I do have a hand throttle which think is illegal for Class 3. But my bike looks "workday commuter" and I suspect cops are less likely to bother a 58 year old guy on a bike than some young un. So either way, I don't expect to get much grief.
dogman dan wrote:
Jan 11, 2018 7:45 am
Not sure how Tucson is with the bike trails, but I rode all over the Phoenix ones and never saw one cop on the trails. Here at home I've stood there with bicycle cops on the multi use path that bans motors, discussing e bikes. I ride closer to 15 mph on the mup's, but the bike can do 35 mph.
I don't ride trails. I have done one long 40 mile round trip that involved a MUP. And like you, I mostly stayed around 15 mph. The exceptions were some long stretches along the canal that are very wide and straight with a clear view ahead. Overall I just made sure I wasn't disruptive to the legal users - passing carefully and riding slowly when they were close by.

It isn't like I'm up late at night worrying about ebike laws in AZ. But if they are going to go to the trouble to change the laws, I'd like to see something more sane that what is being propose. Maybe others disagree, but it seems to me that a simple speed limit approach is a more sensible way to do things.
"Commuter - DC Booster"
Iron Horse 3.0 hardtail - 48V / 1000W / 470rpm generic Chinese DD Hub motor (ebay)
7 x 36v 4.3ah 10s 2P battery packs - Wangdd22 1500W 30A DC Boost Converter delivers 54v and about 1175 watts peak
53T/42T Sakae Road cranks - 30mph+ on flats
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =2&t=90369

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