Motorizing a Catrike Speed- Best option?

M

marcocolo

100 µW
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
8
I've got a '05 Catrike Speed lying around that I'd really like to use as a pretty much motor only trike. It's light at 27 lbs. and it's aluminum. It's got 16" fronts and a 20" rear wheel. It's very stable , nimble and rides almost like a go-kart. I'm about 145 lbs. and I ride in Iowa, so lots of flat and some long hills but no super steep stuff. I'd like to be able to do 30mph. My budget is $1K-1.5K. I'd like a range of over 30 miles.
Reliability is #1. Weight #2. Speed #3. I don't think I want a heavy rear hub motor on a trike but I'm not adverse to a not heavy hub motor that fits the bill. I'm concerned w/ a mid-drive out on the boom because of weight and torque (maybe I'm wrong?). My boom is about 21" from T to BB.
I'd love your expert advice folks. Thanks.
 
Have you thought about a MAC kit from em3ev? The geared hub motors are generally lighter. You would have to check with them on a 6T motor wind. With a 20" wheel I would think you would get 30 mph (50v battery) out of it.

I just did a build with a kit from them. With the motor and battery it was at $1k. The battery is 50v 18.6 ah and likely good for 40 miles depending on how fast you go. On a Catrike it would probably be even more range.

Whatever way you go, I'm sure it'll be a fun ride. I was also thinking about doing a Catrike build earlier this year!
 
I've got an aluminum Performer tadpole that I put a 48v 500w BBS02 on and I really like it. The boom length is about the same as yours and does not flex at all. I normally just use the PAS system and it ramps up to speed smooth and steady whereas the throttle can give everything a hard jerk unless I first take out the slack using the PAS system.

It's all about trade-offs. The hub motor adds weight to the back wheel that already carries more weight, is more difficult to install, and is more difficult to remove to fix a flat, etc. But with the crank drive (BBS02) you loose the front triple chainring and also put more strain on the drive train.
 
Rassy said:
I've got an aluminum Performer tadpole that I put a 48v 500w BBS02 on and I really like it. The boom length is about the same as yours and does not flex at all. I normally just use the PAS system and it ramps up to speed smooth and steady whereas the throttle can give everything a hard jerk unless I first take out the slack using the PAS system.

It's all about trade-offs. The hub motor adds weight to the back wheel that already carries more weight, is more difficult to install, and is more difficult to remove to fix a flat, etc. But with the crank drive (BBS02) you loose the front triple chainring and also put more strain on the drive train.
Click to expand...

How big is your rear wheel? As it is, I only have a double on the front but my big ring is a 56T and I seem to be able to spin it our fairly easily. How fast can you go w/ the 48v setup?
 
My Performer tadpole has a 26" back wheel. The BBS02s have various display/interfaces and mine only allows a max speed setting of 40 KMH (about 25 MPH). In my initial tests it did go 25 MPH on the flats. I actually have it reset at just over 20 MPH max and in 5th gear (9 speed cluster) it easily accelerates to 20 MPH using the throttle or in 9th gear and PAS level 9. My BBS02 has a 48T chainring.

Edit: I just looked up something on my Performer thread (3rd link under my signature) and there were a couple of negative comments concerning installing a Bafang crankdrive on a Catrike.
 
So what is the best rear hub motor that will work w/ a 20" wheel and hopefully meets my criteria?
I'm a little leery of ordering from China. Am I wrong to think that?
 
Some vendors in China (or Hong Kong) are great to work with. EM3EV is one of them. He's also the only source for what I'm about to recommend.

• MAC 8T motor Standard Cassette ( much better than freewheel, and you can use your existing cassette)
• 20" Alex DM18 Rim CNC
• One Torque Arm is a must, rev3 is fine
• 9 FET Controller
• Pick a Throttle you could use a twist mounted at the top side of the bar, but will need to drill holes to feed the shifter cable through the bar
• E-Brake levers
• CA3-DPS, chances are you're going to want to later add the THUN Torque Sensing bottom Bracket. (TCDM won't work on a trike)

As far as batteries go, they make some of the best battery packs but its a bit costly to ship. 48-52V 13+ AH + charger will do fine.

http://em3ev.com/product/upgrade-mac-kit-with-4750v-battery-1500w-max/

On my HPV FS26 I went with a high torque 12T, and later a 10T. This is my build:
http://www.triketech.com/Drivetrain/PowerAssist/HPV-MAC.html
 
There's ebikes.ca (grintech) out of Canada or lunacycle out of California if your adverse to ordering from china

Ebikes.ca has an ebike simulator program on their site you can use to properly spec your system and compare
Several different setups
 
marcocolo said:
Reliability is #1. Weight #2. Speed #3. I don't think I want a heavy rear hub motor on a trike
Click to expand...

Well, a direct drive hub motor without regenerative braking is the most reliable and most economical choice. A MAC geared hub motor is somewhat more expensive with a little bit more noise and points of failure.

If you're going to ride the thing motor-only or nearly so, I don't see what the down side to a big ole hub is.
 
Mac is very low maintenance, and well worth the price. I do like its smaller size and ot really is quieter than described by many. The newest gears are hushed with a good lube. I'm pleased with the upgrade black controller from EM3ev and unsurpassed batteries. Second mac on order!
 
I agree with Chalo here. Basically heavy DD is just what doctor ordered for traditional, commercial trike because those usually have too light rear end and have problems with rear tire traction. Commercial velomobiles example can not get anywhere on gravel hills, because there"s not enough rear tire traction. Even with heavy DD commercial typical trike is propably still gonna be nose heavy, over 50% of it"s weight on front wheels.

DD is also usually very quiet. On a low trike rear motor is gonna be very close to your ears. Like ten inches away or something. You really want it to be quiet on a trike. Geared hubbies are usually not that quiet, geared hub on a low trike will sound lot louder than on a upright bicycle because it"s right next to your ears behind your head. DD without sinewave-controller is not 100% quiet, but it"s lot more quiet than geared hub and DD noise is kinda tolerable type of sound.

Then there is of course that reliability of a DD. Mid-drive delivers it"s power throught the chain, which is no good if you have a trike and you want more power than some 500W. Trike has very long expensive chain, and all kinds of even more expensive chain pulleys and things there that will wear out rapidly with powerful mid-drive. 1000W or more delivered through the trike chain drive is just not a good idea, expecially if you like PAS.
 
A few years ago I powered a catrike pocket with a 750 watt motor with a 48v 20amp battery. It met your demands. I like grin tech. They have great products and advice. An important part of the build is proper placement of the battery. I was stubborn and needed to move the battery twice. To avoid raising the center of gravity, a very bad thing, the top of the battery should be below the rear axle. And the rear of the battery needs to be in front of the rear axle. Then your CG will be lower than a non motorized trike. Better than a go cart.
 
So I did a bit more research based on the above posts and it seems that I probably do want to go DD. I'll be putting whatever battery pack I get behind my back fairly low and I don't need a monster DD motor, but something 750-1000w.
Who makes the best motor in that size-most efficient, reliable, quiet?? Which controller should I pair it with? I read that the motors w/ built in controllers can fail from heat- is this true? I guess I'm hoping someone who really knows this stuff posts and says "Mark, you want XX hub/wheel and XX controller and XX batteries in XX voltage. You'll get the best deal and service from XX seller." This is not to dis the guys who have made suggestions thus far!!!
You there Mr. in the know?
 
Still saying to go with em3ev. The issue is in how long it takes to ship from China, especially now that they seem to be back ordered on the batteries. My last two battery packs seem to have taken 3 weeks to a month. Paul is a great guy though and Moon answers every email within like 12 hours. I'd recommend getting a battery from a know source who uses the cells they list.

http://em3ev.com/product/50v-14s7p-rectangle-battery-pack/
(with the 33g, or even 22P cells).

Make sure you can fit it somewhere on the catrike. You might need to get the smaller pack? If so, you might want to look at a cell chemistry that puts out more amps. 30 amps is good for the controller/motor that Triketech posted above.

I'm going with what Triketech posted above pretty much! I'd ask them about a 6T for 30 mph if that's important though. My last two MACs are so quite I don't think it's an issue. When cruising at 20 MPH I can't even hear them. Definitely quieter than the other geared motor I got from them back in 2012. Geared motors provide great torque at 1500 watts, are lighter, and can still get to 30mph. I'm not sure I could give that up with DDs.

In reality, you could get one of each for the $1,500, ride the one you like better, and have a backup.
 
Hangdog said:
There's ebikes.ca (grintech) out of Canada or lunacycle out of California if your adverse to ordering from china

Ebikes.ca has an ebike simulator program on their site you can use to properly spec your system and compare
Several different setups
Click to expand...
Grin will be All Cell USA, others China...
 
RyanT said:
Still saying to go with em3ev. The issue is in how long it takes to ship from China, especially now that they seem to be back ordered on the batteries. My last two battery packs seem to have taken 3 weeks to a month. Paul is a great guy though and Moon answers every email within like 12 hours. I'd recommend getting a battery from a know source who uses the cells they list.

http://em3ev.com/product/50v-14s7p-rectangle-battery-pack/
(with the 33g, or even 22P cells).

Make sure you can fit it somewhere on the catrike. You might need to get the smaller pack? If so, you might want to look at a cell chemistry that puts out more amps. 30 amps is good for the controller/motor that Triketech posted above.

I'm going with what Triketech posted above pretty much! I'd ask them about a 6T for 30 mph if that's important though. My last two MACs are so quite I don't think it's an issue. When cruising at 20 MPH I can't even hear them. Definitely quieter than the other geared motor I got from them back in 2012. Geared motors provide great torque at 1500 watts, are lighter, and can still get to 30mph. I'm not sure I could give that up with DDs.

In reality, you could get one of each for the $1,500, ride the one you like better, and have a backup.
Click to expand...
With EM3ev you know who built the battery.
 
marcocolo said:
So I did a bit more research based on the above posts and it seems that I probably do want to go DD. I'll be putting whatever battery pack I get behind my back fairly low and I don't need a monster DD motor, but something 750-1000w.
Who makes the best motor in that size-most efficient, reliable, quiet?? Which controller should I pair it with? I read that the motors w/ built in controllers can fail from heat- is this true? I guess I'm hoping someone who really knows this stuff posts and says "Mark, you want XX hub/wheel and XX controller and XX batteries in XX voltage. You'll get the best deal and service from XX seller." This is not to dis the guys who have made suggestions thus far!!!
You there Mr. in the know?
Click to expand...
"Mr in the know" is the ebike simulator at ebikes.ca...lots of good info there
 
FWIW, I'll be receiving a TSDZ2 Mid Drive in about a week so long as there are no Customs issues.

Haven't bought a battery yet, probably a Sonders clone from Luna Cycle.

Being a lower power/weight unit it may be suitable for a Catrike although it does have limitations. I won't know until doing some testing and that will take a while since this is more of a hobby to me.
 
Since I'll be using this almost exclusively electric, do you guys think I could dump one of the front chainrings (it's a double), either keeping the big or small ring? Basically it's for getting me home if the system fails or to supplement power, right? If true, which should I keep or maybe get one that splits the difference?
One reason I ask is I've got Gripshift and I'd like to use a Gripshift style throttle.
 
You could use a bar end shifter instead.
 
Both good possibilities!!
I'm leaning toward the 9C 2705 from bike.ca or maybe a Mac setup like you guys recommend above. I don't have to use brakes much in my area (small town rural Iowa) so the regen thing is not so important. I do like the idea of lighter weight Mac and no drag on pedal power. I'm sure both are quiet enough. Reliability between the two? On a 30 mile ride ,which setup would use the most battery?
And lastly, who's got the best batteries at the best price, I'm thinking of a 17-20ah?
You guys are great!!
 
You could use a bar end shifter instead.
Click to expand...

I don't think a bar end shifter would be compatible with either a full twist or half twist throttle because the shifter cable has to run past the throttle grip area. One way to retain the original shifter might be to use one of those bicycle handle bar ends to mount the shifter out of the way. They can be cut off to give you just a stub to mount the shifter on. Then you could shift between the original chain rings at any time.

https://www.idealtruevalue.com/store/p/172596-Bicycle-Handle-Bar-Ends-Provide-A-Comfortable-Alternative-Position-Whi.html?feed=Froogle&gclid=CjwKEAjw_uvHBRDUkumF0tLFp3cSJACAIHMY7qmdWp9bZnaQ1rKI6xP_2W8KauXH13xvL4tKzD7boRoC6r3w_wcB
 
From 0 to about 20 mph the MAC 8T will be more efficient. Above about 22 mph the 9C will be a little more efficient.

If your average speed is about 15 mph the 9C will pull about 40% more power.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

E
GMAC vs Grin All Axle vs Dual Drive Catrike
2
Replies
28
Views
1,199
edben05
E
lakeyboi12
    • Like
Idea for a high capacity e-bike using LiFePO4 12 volt batteries. Good idea or nuts?
Replies
18
Views
914
Ebike Bob
Ebike Bob
marka-ee
In EU, help selecting DD hubmotor for 20" trike rear. Amazon.de ?
Replies
4
Views
317
marka-ee
marka-ee
E
A recumbent build
2 3
Replies
52
Views
1,804
Steelrazor
Steelrazor
R
Adding a second motor as a booster only
Replies
5
Views
231
gromike
G
Back
Top