Road Bike or Comfort Bike?

Hey everybody, I'm new to the forums and have a few questions. I've read quite a bit so far, but I'm just not sure what to purchase since I've new to ebikes.

I have two bikes I'm considering converting:



The first is my Specialized Allez which I've turned into my commuter. It's light weight, and handles like a dream, even with a basket full of groceries on the back (yes I know panniers have better weight distribution, but I prefer the basket - it handles fine). And it's just fun to ride.

The tires are 700x23C.



The other bike is a Giant Sedona comfort bike given to me by my father. It's considerably heavier, though I haven't weighed it. It has shocks on the front and disc brakes. It also seems like maybe it'd be more rugged as a commuter and the frame might be able to carry more weight. I have not ridden this bike, but I can't imagine it'd be as fun to ride - but as an ebike, who knows?

The tire size is 26 x 1.95.

As for me:

I'm 214 lbs, soon to be 200 as I've started working out again.

My desired max speed would be around 25 mph without pedaling. But, I love to pedal and want to bike for fitness. I mainly want the ebike for having to option to arrive at work not sweaty, and for quicker runs to the grocery store during work hours.

The terrain here is mildly hilly - I couldn't tell you what the grades are. I can make it up every hill on my road bike, but I'm in the lowest gear on some hills.

On flat ground without wind, I usually average 14-16 mph.

Max range? I dunno. Maybe 30 miles with pedaling. Again, I love pedaling - I'm not looking for a scooter. I imagine myself using pedal power to take off from dead stops and using the motor to supplement top speeds and hill climbing.

As far as budget, I'm prepared to spend around $1,000. And it seems like most options are gonna be around there.

I've read quite a few threads about all the different propulsion systems and I can't decide what would be best. I was kinda leaning toward BB02 but I'm open to front or rear hub drives.

I like the neatness of the BB02 install with not having to mount a controller (is this correct?). But I'm willing to mount a controller if necessary. Also, are there different widths of BB02 if that's the way I decide to go?

I hope I gave you all the information you guys require.

Thanks in advance for your help!

It sounds like you really enjoy riding your current commuter, so I would not hesitate to use that for your conversion. I would strongly recommend the bb02. I have the BBSHD and have moved it around do between a commuter similar to yours and a cargo bike. One of the nice features is that if the bottom brackets of the two bikes are of the same width (quite likely), you can try mounting the motor in each and see which setup you like best. In these motors, the controller is integrated, so you don't need to mount it independently.

Convert the comfort bike and keep your road bike light, nimble and fun. The comfort features on the Giant will be appreciated when you find yourself riding twice or three times the distances. The bike is already heavy so the addition of a motor and battery won't be as dramatic as on the lighter bike.
I have no experience with mid-drives but I think you would be quite happy with a 1000w rear kit and be able to stay within your budget.

Because you can ride at speeds of 14-16 mph on your Specialized Allez Road Bike, I also say ... keep it light and for exercise and Convert the Comfort Bike.



At speeds over 14-16 mph , like 20- 25 mph you will like having the front shock, and can get a Cane Creek Thudbuster Suspension Seat Post,

With Bigger Tires on the Comfort bike you will have a little more cushioning than the Allez, and will be more comfortable .

It has disc brakes and for speeds 20 and above, you are going to want disc brakes . ( Most all the New Road Bikes out on the roads where I live are now Disc Brake Road Bikes and Disc Gravel Road Bikes )

I have a Road Bike converted to electric and can go 20 -22 mph with me pedaling, but it is not as comfortable as the MTB I first converted to electric, and does not have the cargo carrying capacity as the MTB with Rear Rack .

Look at my first conversion, with a 52 volt battery ( 14s ) at 25 amps you will get the top speed you want. Just get a middle to low speed motor for going up hills.

Do the beater bike with a BBS02 and 52V battery. It's under $500 and you meet the budget after you add a battery and charger. There's no pedal resistance, so you'll have a 50-55 pound bike to move when you pedal w/o power. Maybe every other week, on casual Friday, you ride the red one.

Direct drive hub motors make good commuters, but they're not for pedaling without power. I'm not sure Luna even includes PAS sensors on their Magic Pie models.

I would build the Giant with a rear hub, for long term reliability and safety. I suggest the widest tires that fit the frame and a good suspension seatpost. Since it has a triple chainring, you can use a single freewheel on the rear. 3 speed is enough to pedal comfortably with a motor.

Your Specialized is a good bike to pedal, keep it light. It is also easier to sell if you end up not using it anymore.

Comfort bikes are awesome commuters, leisure, and travel eBikes. Best conversion platforms out there. I have four. Bafang BBSHD MID, front DD, front GD, BBS01 Mid drive. I'd never go back to a road bike position. While they are less efficient given the drag of the upright position the right motor can easily power them to 30mph with 48v.

If you really love the bike the way it is, I'd tend to want to leave it the way it is.

But a small middrive (BBS?) with a small battery might not alter it's handling so much that you don't like it anymore.

As long as both bikes use the same BB type and size, then at least with this you can move it to the other bike if you don't like what it does to the favorite one.

Good advice I give all the time. "Don't ruin your favorite bike with a motor".

Leave the road bike as is, and convert the comfort bike.

Geared type rear hub on the giant will make a reliable, easy to maintain e bike. But if you would like to climb very steep hills, or tow trailers, then go to the mid drive.

dogman dan said:

Geared type rear hub on the giant will make a reliable, easy to maintain e bike. But if you would like to climb very steep hills, or tow trailers, then go to the mid drive.

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Good to see you back, and on track, with the best and concise advice!

Chefkeith said:

Hey everybody, I'm new to the forums and have a few questions. I've read quite a bit so far, but I'm just not sure what to purchase since I've new to ebikes.

I have two bikes I'm considering converting:

The first is my Specialized Allez which I've turned into my commuter. It's light weight, and handles like a dream, even with a basket full of groceries on the back (yes I know panniers have better weight distribution, but I prefer the basket - it handles fine). And it's just fun to ride.

The tires are 700x23C.

The other bike is a Giant Sedona comfort bike given to me by my father. It's considerably heavier, though I haven't weighed it. It has shocks on the front and disc brakes. It also seems like maybe it'd be more rugged as a commuter and the frame might be able to carry more weight. I have not ridden this bike, but I can't imagine it'd be as fun to ride - but as an ebike, who knows?

The tire size is 26 x 1.95.

As for me:

I'm 214 lbs, soon to be 200 as I've started working out again.

My desired max speed would be around 25 mph without pedaling. But, I love to pedal and want to bike for fitness. I mainly want the ebike for having to option to arrive at work not sweaty, and for quicker runs to the grocery store during work hours.

The terrain here is mildly hilly - I couldn't tell you what the grades are. I can make it up every hill on my road bike, but I'm in the lowest gear on some hills.

On flat ground without wind, I usually average 14-16 mph.

Max range? I dunno. Maybe 30 miles with pedaling. Again, I love pedaling - I'm not looking for a scooter. I imagine myself using pedal power to take off from dead stops and using the motor to supplement top speeds and hill climbing.

As far as budget, I'm prepared to spend around $1,000. And it seems like most options are gonna be around there.

I've read quite a few threads about all the different propulsion systems and I can't decide what would be best. I was kinda leaning toward BB02 but I'm open to front or rear hub drives.

I like the neatness of the BB02 install with not having to mount a controller (is this correct?). But I'm willing to mount a controller if necessary. Also, are there different widths of BB02 if that's the way I decide to go?

I hope I gave you all the information you guys require.

Thanks in advance for your help!

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Dave (D8veh), a well respected ebike Guru from England recently wrote this;

<<<"A crank-drive bike just isn't as relaxing as a hub-motor on a long commute because you have to be in the right gear all the time. When I was commuting 30 miles a day, I tried both. I found that the hub motor was a lot better, especially in the winter when you have cold hands. All that gear-changing on the CD becomes very tedious, especially as they go with a bit of a bang each time.

Another obvious drawback of CD, is the much more frequent replacement of chains, cassettes and derailleurs. When you get a problem with any of them, you have to push the bike (sometimes carry) or order a taxi. With a hub-motor, you can still pedal or throttle home with no chain.

With a hub-motored bike fitted with Marathon Plus tyres and hydraulic disc brakes, you could probably do two years with nothing more than oiling the chain and the odd bike cleaning. My bike has done 4000 miles since I built it, and hasn't needed any more than that apart from one gear-cable broke which was used a used one that I bought from Ebay when I built the bike.">>>

I kind of look at hub motors like my first car, a '65 Chevy w/ a 2-speed auto trans. It wouldn't cruise at 100 MPH and it wasn't good for off-road (but I tried), but it was 16 year old proof. If extreme parameters are not desired and a hub motor will cover the highs and lows(hills), I think it's the way to go. If one likes to pedal, a geared hob motor is the better option.

I imagine myself using pedal power to take off from dead stops and using the motor to supplement top speeds and hill climbing.

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It usually doesn't work out that way. W/ a decent PAS (Pedal Assist System), the rider uses the motor all the time, adjusting the amount of power that is added to the legs. The new, "torque imitation, 5-speed PAS systems work really well in this regard.

My desired max speed would be around 25 mph without pedaling.

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There is sort of a "break point" between 20 and 25 MPH. It's not too hard to get the gearing to pedal along @ 20 mph, but doing that at 25 MPH often requires a bigger chain ring than the donor bike will easily accept.
W/ a bike that does 25 MPH, it IS a good idea to think about up-grading to wider wheels and tires and a suspension seat post. But, @ 20 MPH, those items are still optional.
I have two bikes, an "assist" bike that does 20 MPH and a "mini-cycle" type that does 26-27 MPH. If I only had one, I would shoot for 22 to 23 MPH, fast enough to be fun and feel like you are really covering some ground, but not so fast that one starts to feel like they are "riding on the edge".
Also, remember, as speed goes up, range goes down.
And speaking of tires, if you end up like many of us, after the system is installed, you next biggest concern will be flats. By sticking to a narrower tire will make it easier to fit a flat resistant tire. For example, Forte makes an inexpensive, high quality clone of the Marathon Plus;

https://www.amazon.com/Fort-Gotham-Road-Mountain-Tires/dp/B017TGIJZA/ref=pd_day0_468_11?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B017TGIJZA&pd_rd_r=T5EHXSHTT68556TYRRWZ&pd_rd_w=5epYC&pd_rd_wg=t8yX7&psc=1&refRID=T5EHXSHTT68556TYRRWZ

Their extra thick tubes are good too.

Max range? I dunno. Maybe 30 miles with pedaling.

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That is a fairly long range for an Ebike and you will need a larger pack like this one;

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/249-48v20ah-li-ion-shrink-tube-ebike-battery-pack-ecitypower-battery.html

So don't scrimp on the battery.

So to recap what what I would recommend;
48 V/ 20 Ah Li-Ion battery
A 5-speed "Torque Imitation" PAS system.
Geared hub motor.

Which geared motor, that are too many to list here, but they range from the 2Kg. "mini-motor like the Q100CST;

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/651-q100c-cst-36v350w-32-hole-rear-driving-hub-motor-ebike-kit.html

to the larger BPMCST;

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/804-bafang-36v500w-cst-rear-driving-hub-motor-ebike-kit.html

THe big battery sort of requires mixing and matching of components, which can get a little confusing, so you might want to do some searching and reading here, but you should always start off by picking the top speed and matching the system to that. The best, and most fun way to do that, is to play around w/ the Ebike CA sim;

http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html

Gd. luck.

Thanks everybody for all the info so far! I'm going to look at the calculator tonight and see what that's all about.

Most of us use a mid-range motor speed, something around 250 to 260 RPM @ 36 Volts, which w/ 48 V system in a 26" whl. gives a top speed of 22 to 23 mph.
The larger the motor, the higher the motor speed that can be run w/out bogging too badly on the hills. A 280-290 motor might do mid to high 20's MPH. 328 motors are not recommended in big whl.s.
The rule of thumb for hub motors, is to never let the climbing speed fall below 1/2 the top speed, at which point, more energy is going into heat than motivation.
Roughly, Volts = speed and Amps(Current) = acceleration(climbing power).
As motor speed goes up, the more amps the system wants, but there is a Watts limit(V X A = W).
Roughly, hub motors will take 2 to 3 times their rated limit for short periods.

Besides the Bafangs, another commonly use geared motor are the MAC's(go to Em3ev, a trusted vendor) to read about them;
https://em3ev.com/shop/

A very popular mini is the Q100H (called the Cute). It is not on the list, but the discontinued OutRider stand. can be sub'ed. The mini's are often installed on the frt. of the bike, for the easiest and lowest cost installation.

I wouldn’t consider anything other than mid-drive anymore. I’ve had a ton of hub drives and while most were best for the day Bafang BBSHD really brought mid-drives up to the task, IMO.

HD motor really doesn’t need all of the shifting and fussing with gears of the BBS02. Many BBSHD commuters need only 2-3 wide ranging gears.

Chain wear? Please, chains cost $12 shipped and if you merely use a chain wear gauge (cheap simple tool) every once in a while and change the chain at the beginning of noticeable wear, the rest of the system lasts a very very long time.

If you ride enough you know about flats. Try changing a tire/tube on a hub motor eBike…

Ykick said:

I wouldn’t consider anything other than mid-drive anymore. I’ve had a ton of hub drives and while most were best for the day Bafang BBSHD really brought mid-drives up to the task, IMO.

HD motor really doesn’t need all of the shifting and fussing with gears of the BBS02. Many BBSHD commuters need only 2-3 wide ranging gears.

Chain wear? Please, chains cost $12 shipped and if you merely use a chain wear gauge (cheap simple tool) every once in a while and change the chain at the beginning of noticeable wear, the rest of the system lasts a very very long time.

If you ride enough you know about flats. Try changing a tire/tube on a hub motor eBike…

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I have only had hub motors and I can agree with you on the tire changing. It is a pain, but I don't have the money for a mid-drive at the moment. I am planning on building one eventually. I am currently building a new bafang geared motor bike. The next will be a mid-drive. I plan to keep all three of my bikes if I can. I just started building bikes last year and have been building, driving, and selling my bikes. I am trying to find something I really enjoy. MN has a 1000 watt limit, so there is a lot of options available. I am somewhat satisfied with my 48v 1000W direct drive motor on a 26inch 21 speed bike.

Ykick said:

I wouldn’t consider anything other than mid-drive anymore. I’ve had a ton of hub drives and while most were best for the day Bafang BBSHD really brought mid-drives up to the task, IMO.

HD motor really doesn’t need all of the shifting and fussing with gears of the BBS02. Many BBSHD commuters need only 2-3 wide ranging gears.

Chain wear? Please, chains cost $12 shipped and if you merely use a chain wear gauge (cheap simple tool) every once in a while and change the chain at the beginning of noticeable wear, the rest of the system lasts a very very long time.

If you ride enough you know about flats. Try changing a tire/tube on a hub motor eBike…

Click to expand...

How many miles do you do per month? All my bbs02 failed at some stage, and the gear progressively wear down.

I do about 700 miles per month and changing chain every month + cassette & brake pad every 2 months is very annoying and start to be expensive!

I ride 500 miles a week in the summer, and I ride fast. For my requirements, I would not ride a BB drive if you gave it to me.

Yet, people are living with so many different requirements. Every kind of build can be ideal to someone, somewhere. :wink:

Convert the comfort bike and keep the road bike a road bike.
As for hub vs mid drive argument, is been beaten to death. Granted I only have a BBS02 and it performs wonderfully with a trailer and a kid on the handlebar up an incline with a modified granny gear. But for just around town, I almost always grab my cheap direct drive because it is so smooth and easy to ride.
I may have had the earlier BBS02, so I had to open it up a few times and lubed the hell out of it. I had to figure out a chain line solution and also a wide enough gear range to climb hills and go fast.
Interestingly, I had lots of flats in my mid drive and still not the easiest to change out because of the stiff schwalbe tires and how heavy the bike is. I catastrophically destroyed the cheap Chinese rim on my DD, now that it's built into a strong wheel, I'm not concerned anymore, but I do dread the day I get a flat in my direct drive. In reality, you just need some extra tools. Either way, changing flats suck on these heavy bikes, nothing like your 3 minute flat repair on a road bike.

I vote for a geared MAC setup.

cwah said:

How many miles do you do per month? All my bbs02 failed at some stage, and the gear progressively wear down.

I do about 700 miles per month and changing chain every month + cassette & brake pad every 2 months is very annoying and start to be expensive!

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Last 11 years I rode 250 miles per week - all season. I know regular commuting very well and tires/brakes/batteries accounted for majority of my replacement parts expense during that period.

Since I retired last January, recreational/errand riding varies anywhere between 200-2000 miles per month.

700 miles per month is severe duty and good luck making any eBike trouble free for more than a few months at a time. BBS02 is not durable enough for abusive long term commuting, IMO. BBSHD is.

Chains are cheap. As are DIY spokes and wheel-rebuilding which seem to be needed for rear hub motors somewhere around 5k mile mark. Wheel rebuild is much more time consuming than replacing a worn chain.

How many miles have you done with the bbshd to say its muh more up to the task than the bbs02? I think the bbs02 needs full refurbishing after 5-10k miles mark. (Ie. Changing internal gears)

How long can the bbshd stand hassle free?

On my current DD setup, a leaf motor at 1000w I purchased 2 years ago.... the only trouble I had was with motor hall sensor failure. I swapped to better hall and now its all working fine.

Over 20k miles I think. The only thing I change are the tyres (marathon plus) every 4-5 months. And a flat there and there (massive pain)

I haven't changed brake pad yet.
No need to change the chain or cassette ( i actually removed both)
The spokes need tensioning every few months. I replace the broken spokes when changing tyres.

No need to rebuild or dish the wheel either.... just some eye ball check when tightening the spokes to make sure it still spin like a wheel... reason is that I removed the rear brake because of regen, so the wheel doesn't need to be that true.

Can the bbshd achieve this level of reliability, long term?

cwah said:

How many miles do you do per month? All my bbs02 failed at some stage, and the gear progressively wear down.

I do about 700 miles per month and changing chain every month + cassette & brake pad every 2 months is very annoying and start to be expensive!

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Read it again, BBSHD A very different motor.

cwah said:

Can the bbshd achieve this level of reliability, long term?

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Apples and oranges. The DD cannot do many of the rides a BBSHD can. Even the venerable MAC is outperformed in hill country. I have them all from a small GD to the MAC and a 1000WDD. Two 350W BBS01's and a BBSHD. Each has their place. There is no clear winner or single motor to do it all, EXCEPT perhaps the BBSHD. IF the buyer gets the right BBSHD, no lateral play, no funky builds, it's motor with a b=very long life. Sadly Bafang is sloppy. But who ever said that a mid drive wasn't going to be more maintenance? I knew that from the first thread I read before even buying a mid drive.

Apple to apples make the conversation much more interesting.

tomjasz said:

cwah said:

Can the bbshd achieve this level of reliability, long term?

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Apples and oranges. The DD cannot do many of the rides a BBSHD can. Even the venerable MAC is outperformed in hill country. I have them all from a small GD to the MAC and a 1000WDD. Two 350W BBS01's and a BBSHD. Each has their place. There is no clear winner or single motor to do it all, EXCEPT perhaps the BBSHD. IF the buyer gets the right BBSHD, no lateral play, no funky builds, it's motor with a b=very long life. Sadly Bafang is sloppy. But who ever said that a mid drive wasn't going to be more maintenance? I knew that from the first thread I read before even buying a mid drive.

Apple to apples make the conversation much more interesting.

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I'd be interested by reliability story about the bbshd. I do not have tried it, but my experience with bbs02 was issue starting to appear after few thousand miles.

How many miles have done on the bbshd to say its much more reliable than a DD? I did 20k miles on my dd without maintenance other than changing tyres and tightening spokes.

And bonus with regen I haven't changed my brake pad yet!!

My Cromotor 2 has beat the 35 000 miles, and still going.

Commuter plus mac 8t rear and shark or triangle battery a 9fet controller . Oh a C.A. ,twrist throttle ebrakes and a kill switch. Plus torque arms. One is good. A 11t rear.