Big speed reduction after installing 3 punture proofing item

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Jul 20, 2016
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I recently took my bicycle to a bike shop after I got a lot of punctures to get some puncture proofing installed.

They suggested a puncture proof inner tube and some slime. I also asked for a puncture proof liner as well for added puncture proofing.

Anyway ever since the bicycle has reduced speed by a lot (something like over 30%) which because it has very limited power already makes it really not good enough any more and requires a lot more assistance. Rolling speed is down too so it's not a battery or motor issue.

I assume this is probably due to the puncture proof liner rather than the new inner tube or the slime.

I am about to try to take it out but can anyone confirm experiences like this with puncture proof liners? (I don't know the brand but the bicycle shops seems to sell quality items).
Is there any chance it will become a lot better after more riding, so far I only went on one longer ride and a few short test rides to reduce the battery charge.

The tyre is the CST Traveller City Classic 40-622 700x360. I pump it up to about 75psi. This is unchanged so it's not because of the tyre.
 
I've had some difference when adding layers of protection, with increased rolling resistance, but not to that degree.

I'd look at the brakes and see if readjusting them fixes the issue (sometimes brakes get misadjusted when wheels are removed and reinstalled). If they're rubbing even a little, it can make a great deal of difference to the power it takes to move them.
 
What tyres are they? punctures are usually caused by worn out tyres, but the extra weight of an ebike will make them more puncture prone. I think what your finding is that you've add a lot of rolling weight so that alone will make it feel sluggish. Would some puncture resistant tyres like swalbe marathon plus with standard tubes and no liners not have been a better option?
 
Yes the front wheel when spun is making a slight noise at one point when it goes round, although it still spins for a long time. I loosened the brake lever but it must be the brake assembly not the actual brake pad that is touching slightly. I'm not quite sure how to adjust it though, here's a photo.

bicycle-brakes.JPG
 
Firstly, lift each wheel off the ground and spin it by hand to see if they spin properly. if they don't, find the reason why, which is normally the tyre rubbing on something or the brake not adjusted properly.

Secondly, those liners cause more punctures than they prevent, so, chuck them and get some puncture proof tyres. Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres are really good. I used to get a puncture about once a week. Since fitting them, I've done 4000 miles and not a single puncture even though I had a three-inch nail in the tyre. Any tyre from Schwalbe with "Plus" in the name has the same puncture resistance:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/do-puncture-resistant-tires-work.20489/

As a quick temporary measure to adjust your brake, loosen the two cap screws that hold the caliper to the adaptor. That's the ones in the top, not the side. When the caliper is loose, hold on the brake and keep it on tight while you tighten the screws.

To do it properly, you need to adjust the gap between the pads too. there's a screw on the inside of the caliper, which jacks the fixed pad in and out, but there's often a small grub-screw on the edge somewhere that locks it, though in my experience, they always forget to lock the grub-screw. Make the gap just a bit wider than the width of the disc, then apply the procedure that I detailed above.
 
Wheel weight does reduce performance in acceleration and braking, considerably more than bike or rider weight. Liquid inside a tire has an even higher factor of energy consumption than plain wheel weight.

If your system is very low power and your commuting trip is mostly stop and go at every corner, it is possible that excessive puncture proofing measures are responsible for that much change in your autonomy. The reason is that in order to maintain the same performance as before, you are now using much more energy to accelerate.

Now, about puncture resistance. A tire has 3 main factors of natural puncture resistance: PSI, ground contact surface, and construction. Most people do focus on construction, using puncture resistance measures that are making a lot of acceleration resistance. Yet, using a wider rim and filling lower PSI does make for much better puncture resistance without the inconvenience of performance loss. Choosing a better, wider tire can make only a little weight penalty and improve puncture resistance considerably. Most of all, a worn out tire must be replaced because its puncture resistance is affected and it does become fragile.
 
You're getting some good info, and some quality educated guesses, but, no one can see your bike from here and no one has your exact setup.

If you want to nail down the problem and eliminate guesswork, here's how - first, remove the liner. Ride and test. Next, remove the slime tube and replace with what you had before, spares are good to have and they are cheap. Probably cost less than what you paid the shop to take the wheels off and on. Ride and test again. Since this is now the original condition, tubes, liners, and slime are removed from the equation. This leaves only brakes, or some other sort of drag/rubbing going on. If still slow, grounds to take it back to the shop and ask them to fix the screw-up for free.

My bet would be the slime tube.

I got about the same amount of improvement cited here by eliminating one shortcut from my route (heavily traveled by construction trucks) and never, ever, riding on grass (infested with teeny, tiny needle-balls called sandspurs), unless it is clearly manicured. I have also gone to using old inner tube as tire liner. Cheap and effective.
 
OK thanks, I'll try some of those things.

I probably should have just got a puncture proof tyre instead of all those other things.

What would the cost be of a set of puncture proof tyres in AUD aprox?
 
https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_odkw=schwalbe+marathon+plus&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xschwalbe+marathon+plus+700.TRS0&_nkw=schwalbe+marathon+plus+700&_sacat=0

https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_odkw=schwalbe+energizer+plus+700&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=schwalbe+energizer+plus+700&_sacat=0
 
I have 2012 MTB with a 72V 12 amp battery & a 9C direct drive rear hubmotor, Lyen controller set at 40 amp & a Cycle Analyst V3.

I just replaced my 26 x 2.1 Kenda kwik roller sport & 1.95 - 2.10 puncture resistant tube with a 26 x 2.5 maxis hookworm & a new 2.1 - 2.50 tube . I also added a MR TUFFY ULTRA LIGHT TIRE LINER.

The tire is quit large, ie (HUGE) & I had to modify my fender to make it fit & re-calibrate my C.A. speedometer setting as well. SEE PICTURE

I ran the Kenda 2.1 at 60 psi & the new Maxis 2.5 & tire liner at 50 psi. I did not weigh the old tire set-up against the new set-up but suffice it to say it is has to be a bit more.

The biggest difference is the ride is quit a bit smother but the difference in power is negligible.

Bottom line........ use a MR TUFFY ULTRA LITE

For the record I tried another brand of tire liner a few years ago but took it out after 3 consecutive flats that turned out to be CAUSED by the tire liner. It was much thicker & heavier & were the liner overlapped it was pinching or cutting the tube. I still have the old tire liner & it is Much Thicker & heavier than the Mr Tuffy.
 
No. You can fit wider or thinner within reason. It depends on your rim size. A typical 19mm rim can take a tyre from say 20mm up to 54 mm.
 
Thanks, that was a sticker, I couldn't see anything else written on the rim, would I have to take the inner tube out to read what it says underneath on the rim so see the size?

I took out the liner but it still is a lot slower than before.

So it must be the slime or the puncture proof inner tube, you can't take slime out once it's in can you?

The bike is quite underpowered because of regulations so I have to get the most efficiency out of it, the tyres I was using could be pumped up to 75psi, can any of those suggested puncture proof tyres go to a higher pressure?
 
You don't want higher pressure. You want lower. A better tire, a wider rim, are making possible to ride lower pressure with little difference in rolling resistance. Slime is very rolling resistant, especially when it is very liquid and you fill a lot of it. I use some at the end of tire life, 3 oz of very thick automotive green slime in a 3.0" tire and that is enough to feel a slight difference even with a very powerful bike.

High PSI is the most important factor to make a tire fragile to puncture. 2nd is poor contact surface. People think that a bigger tire has high rolling resistance but it is wrong. It is the gum and thread that are making rolling resistance. Some 2.5" tires are rolling better than many 1.0" , even with half the PSI.
 
Weird. There's some puncture proof tires out there with super low rolling resistance that might be better than the solutions provided by the bike shop. The bike shop usually doesn't know about these at all.

I have the most expensive ones on one bike ( schwalbe almotions ) and saw continuous wattage at 40mph drop by 50 watts VS the marathon pluses.. which was way more than i expected.
 
Yes I'm noticing a lot of rolling resistance vs before the slime.

There's no way to take slime out once it's in is there? Because they were expensive puncture resistant inner tubes.

So I would have been better off with a new puncture resistant tyre + basic inner tubes and no slime or liner, right?

The motor is very low power so I can't afford any rolling resistance or any other resistances at all but I don't want to spend too much for top of the line range items.
 
The tube is scrap. You would have been better buying the best tire and use a regular tube. Then, stop filling your tires to their max rated PSI. Fill them near the lowest pressure that they are rated for. Typically, tires are marked with min and max PSI. If/when you replace the rim, using a wider one does lower the PSI ratings of the tire proportionally. My 3.0" tires are rated 30/60, but that is for the usual rim width that is about 1.3". Mounting them on 2.6" rims, their rating lowers to 15/30. I ride them 17 PSI and they are very resistant to puncture.
 
=BicycleRider= said:
But I always thought with more pressure tyres rolled better and needed less energy to move.

Yeah, that's what every hypermiler has said.
Reduce the contact patch by changing the aspect ratio of the tire with air.. hence, reduce the rolling friction..
 
Could I replace my tyres CST Traveller City Classic 40-622 700x360

with a 700x35c one?

Are these a lot worse than those other top quality ones?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pair-of-ANTI-PUNCTURE-Bike-Tyres-700-x-28-32-35-40-47-26-x-1-5-1-75-/261744976066?var=&hash=item3cf13760c2:m:mBAyL5JzPHapAiT5skcMtNw


When an inner tube says Inner Tube Replacement 700x35/43c I assume it means 35 - 43?
 
30% seems awfully lot of power/speed loss for adding some Slime and different tires. Are you sure they didn't mess up the motor wiring while working on it?
 
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